Mac vs. PC Question (newbie)

Just a personal opinion but having worked on Mac’s and always used a PC at home the reason some people state that the Mac is better is historical. The Mac was the only machine that you could run Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark Express and Freehand on then they wrote these programs for the PC. At first they were not brilliant because the earlier PC’s were slow and not always stable but now with DDR memory, high speed processors and OS like XP they are streets better than a MAC. In fact I now some Graphics Designers who were Mac mad who have now changed to PC’s.

Clive

"A.K" wrote in message

Hi All,

I’ve been told by numerous people that if I’m interested in Video Editing and taking my Photoshop skills to the next level that I should purchase a Mac.
However when I ask "WHY" I’m not really given an answer other than "it’s just better" or "Final Cut Pro can only be used on a Mac". Despite the fact the actual answers might be lengthy I would greatly appreciate any help. My PC mentor insists that purchasing a Mac for video editing and Photoshop is completely unnecessary. I would like to be able to tell him why it is necessary.
I’m in the midst of getting a studio job in LA and everyone in production uses a Mac. I think that I should get one too. I just want to know what the major differences are between a Mac and a PC, and why I should purchase a Mac.

Much thanks in advance,
Adam

A.K wrote:

Hi All,

I’ve been told by numerous people that if I’m interested in Video Editing and taking my Photoshop skills to the next level that I should purchase a Mac.
However when I ask "WHY" I’m not really given an answer other than "it’s just better" or "Final Cut Pro can only be used on a Mac". Despite the fact the actual answers might be lengthy I would greatly appreciate any help. My PC mentor insists that purchasing a Mac for video editing and Photoshop is completely unnecessary. I would like to be able to tell him why it is necessary.
I’m in the midst of getting a studio job in LA and everyone in production uses a Mac. I think that I should get one too. I just want to know what the major differences are between a Mac and a PC, and why I should purchase a Mac.

Adam,

If you were working alone, I’d recommend you go straight to the PC for cost reasons alone. But you’re not.

Definitely get what the others are using – in this case it looks like Macintosh – you’ll save a bunch of headaches, starting with the first file someone emails you. Like BOOM – here’s an EDL, take a look and we can talk after lunch. Well, duh, if you are the only PC you’re going to be up a creek.

As for the comparison of the two machines – PC’s are much less expensive in every way, and Macs – the newest models anyway – cost more but have more glitz. Buy as good a system as your budget will allow, and especially get tons of memory. Find out whether they are on OSX or still on OS9, and follow their lead in that area as well.

There is also a religious fervor on the part of the Mac folks – and I speak as someone who worked with them for years and still works with them. Since you need to work with them, join them, or at least show a measure of solidarity with them. Not that you’ll have much choice in the matter 🙂

Macintosh people have the best and glitziest equipment, the highest software standards – particularly but not limited to an excellent user interface, and a hypnotically charismatic leader in Steve Jobs. In spite of this, Mac zealots are in the position of trying to peddle gold in a world that is in love with iron.

Thats about the best I can say – be ready to join a devoted group of people who are under siege, and try to get past this and get your work done.

Take care.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

DRIVEL!

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

A.K wrote:

Hi All,

I’ve been told by numerous people that if I’m interested in Video Editing and taking my Photoshop skills to the next level that I should purchase a Mac.

These people wont be able to back up this statement with ANYTHING.

However when I ask "WHY" I’m not really given an answer other than "it’s just better" or "Final Cut Pro can only be used on a Mac".

See

Despite the fact the actual answers might be lengthy I would greatly appreciate any help. My PC mentor insists that purchasing a Mac for video editing and Photoshop is completely unnecessary.

Correct

I would like to be able to tell him why it is necessary.

Buy a Falcon or a Commodore neither is better both are different.

I’m in the midst of getting a studio job in LA and everyone in production uses a Mac. I think that I should get one too. I just want to know what the major differences are between a Mac and a PC, and why I should purchase a Mac.

Adam,

If you were working alone, I’d recommend you go straight to the PC for

cost

reasons alone. But you’re not.

Definitely get what the others are using – in this case it looks like Macintosh – you’ll save a bunch of headaches, starting with the first file someone emails you. Like BOOM – here’s an EDL, take a look and we can

talk

after lunch. Well, duh, if you are the only PC you’re going to be up a creek.

Not with some decent software.

As for the comparison of the two machines – PC’s are much less expensive

in

every way, and Macs – the newest models anyway – cost more but have more glitz. Buy as good a system as your budget will allow, and especially get tons of memory. Find out whether they are on OSX or still on OS9, and follow their lead in that area as well.

There is also a religious fervor on the part of the Mac folks – and I

speak

as someone who worked with them for years and still works with them.

Since

you need to work with them, join them, or at least show a measure of solidarity with them. Not that you’ll have much choice in the matter 🙂
Macintosh people have the best and glitziest equipment, the highest

software

standards – particularly but not limited to an excellent user interface,

and

a hypnotically charismatic leader in Steve Jobs. In spite of this, Mac zealots are in the position of trying to peddle gold in a world that is in love with iron.

You fucking Idiot.

Thats about the best I can say – be ready to join a devoted group of

people

who are under siege, and try to get past this and get your work done.

Mike Russell… You are a… Mac user by the sound of things.

Frogiswrong wrote:

DRIVEL!

….

You fucking Idiot.

Thats about the best I can say – be ready to join a devoted group of people who are under siege, and try to get past this and get your work done.

Mike Russell… You are a… Mac user by the sound of things.

It’s not often that someone’s nick contains the response to their post. Frog, rivetting as always, is "wrong" on all counts.

This time anyway. 🙂

Take care

—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

"> Definitely get what the others are using – in this case it looks like

Macintosh – you’ll save a bunch of headaches, starting with the first file someone emails you. Like BOOM – here’s an EDL, take a look and we can

talk

after lunch. Well, duh, if you are the only PC you’re going to be up a creek.

Ya know what Mike, I NEVER thought of that and I must say an excellent point. Getting a new production job and being out of the loop the 1st day are what bad dreams are made of. And it’s not as if I’m gonna throw my PC away. I’ll have both I guess.
That one paragraph you wrote just cured a 2-week headache. thank you!!!!

And I must apologize for using a Photoshop newsgroup to post this question but I couldn’t really find a Mac group with more than 200 people. And by all means my intentions aren’t to start a flame war.

Thanks
adam

"Frogiswrong" wrote in message

DRIVEL!

Frog, why when others can formulate articulate, intelligent responses to a valid question, do you have to be offensive, agressive and rude?

For the original poster, my own two penneth, as someone who uses a PC at home (and has owned and still currently uses a Mac at work) is to recommend the Mac. Simply, you’ll need to be up an running the first day…

Si.

AK, I fear all you will have done here is start a "Mac vs. PC" flame war. I’ll try & give you my experience with both without bias.

I’m a PC user and heard the same thing many times, that Apples Colorsync was better than Microsoft’s ICM, etc. blah, blah… Despite the fact I was perfectly happy with the results I was getting from Photoshop and my Epson printers on a PC, I looked into Macs out of curiosity last year and bought a 1ghz G4 Mac.

After months of frustration and aggravation with Apple’s OSX I finally threw up my hands and sold the thing. First, Photoshop works IDENTICALLY on both platforms, there is no advantage one way or the other. Second, if you do direct printing to an Epson printer, the Apple OSX print drivers are a disaster. I ended up having to boot into OS9 to do any reliable printing. Thankfully, OS9 came with my Mac but no longer does. NEVER, despite all the complaints about Wintel being problematic, have I experienced the problems I encountered with Apple. In the end I was very disappointed, because many of the features of the Mac are quite good. I simply was not going to risk my business to a platform switch from which I could find no actual advantage, and a MUCH higher cost.

Apple has a large market share in the graphics community, based upon a leadership position they were in back in the late ’80’s & early ’90s. However, any advantage they had has long since been lost and now it’s simply a matter of the system having become a norm in most agencies. I predict over time Apple will die a slow death, there just isn;t any advantage to them at all.

Hi All,

I’ve been told by numerous people that if I’m interested in Video Editing and taking my Photoshop skills to the next level that I should purchase a Mac.
However when I ask "WHY" I’m not really given an answer other than "it’s just better" or "Final Cut Pro can only be used on a Mac". Despite the fact the actual answers might be lengthy I would greatly appreciate any help. My PC mentor insists that purchasing a Mac for video editing and Photoshop is completely unnecessary. I would like to be able to tell him why it is necessary.
I’m in the midst of getting a studio job in LA and everyone in production uses a Mac. I think that I should get one too. I just want to know what the major differences are between a Mac and a PC, and why I should purchase a Mac.

Much thanks in advance,
Adam

In article <brhkr1$3d7pc$>, Frogiswrong
wrote:

You fucking Idiot.

You present your argument with such class, intelligence, and maturity that I doubt that anyone can support Apple Company even continuing to be in business anymore.

A.K wrote:

Hi All,

I’ve been told by numerous people that if I’m interested in Video Editing and taking my Photoshop skills to the next level that I should purchase a Mac.
However when I ask "WHY" I’m not really given an answer other than "it’s just better" or "Final Cut Pro can only be used on a Mac". Despite the fact the actual answers might be lengthy I would greatly appreciate any help. My PC mentor insists that purchasing a Mac for video editing and Photoshop is completely unnecessary. I would like to be able to tell him why it is necessary.
I’m in the midst of getting a studio job in LA and everyone in production uses a Mac. I think that I should get one too. I just want to know what the major differences are between a Mac and a PC, and why I should purchase a Mac.

Much thanks in advance,
Adam

From what I have heard (and I am not a video guy) Final Cut Pro is simply the best for video editing, and since it’s only available for Mac, you would do well to get a Mac.

I use both Mac and Windows and I think it’s good to have both if you can swing it, or at least know how to use both. The differences these days are not extreme.

—
Comic book sketches and artwork:
http://www.sover.net/~hannigan/edjh.html

And I must apologize for using a Photoshop newsgroup to post this question but I couldn’t really find a Mac group with more than 200 people. And by all means my intentions aren’t to start a flame war.

That’s because only about 600 people use Macs.
😉

Stephan

frog IS wrong

Frogiswrong wrote:

DRIVEL!

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

A.K wrote:

Hi All,

I’ve been told by numerous people that if I’m interested in Video Editing and taking my Photoshop skills to the next level that I should purchase a Mac.

These people wont be able to back up this statement with ANYTHING.

However when I ask "WHY" I’m not really given an answer other than "it’s just better" or "Final Cut Pro can only be used on a Mac".

See

Despite the fact the actual answers might be lengthy I would greatly appreciate any help. My PC mentor insists that purchasing a Mac for video editing and Photoshop is completely unnecessary.

Correct

I would like to be able to tell him why it is necessary.

Buy a Falcon or a Commodore neither is better both are different.

I’m in the midst of getting a studio job in LA and everyone in production uses a Mac. I think that I should get one too. I just want to know what the major differences are between a Mac and a PC, and why I should purchase a Mac.

Adam,

If you were working alone, I’d recommend you go straight to the PC for

cost

reasons alone. But you’re not.

Definitely get what the others are using – in this case it looks like Macintosh – you’ll save a bunch of headaches, starting with the first file someone emails you. Like BOOM – here’s an EDL, take a look and we can

talk

after lunch. Well, duh, if you are the only PC you’re going to be up a creek.

Not with some decent software.

As for the comparison of the two machines – PC’s are much less expensive

in

every way, and Macs – the newest models anyway – cost more but have more glitz. Buy as good a system as your budget will allow, and especially get tons of memory. Find out whether they are on OSX or still on OS9, and follow their lead in that area as well.

There is also a religious fervor on the part of the Mac folks – and I

speak

as someone who worked with them for years and still works with them.

Since

you need to work with them, join them, or at least show a measure of solidarity with them. Not that you’ll have much choice in the matter 🙂
Macintosh people have the best and glitziest equipment, the highest

software

standards – particularly but not limited to an excellent user interface,

and

a hypnotically charismatic leader in Steve Jobs. In spite of this, Mac zealots are in the position of trying to peddle gold in a world that is in love with iron.

You fucking Idiot.

Thats about the best I can say – be ready to join a devoted group of

people

who are under siege, and try to get past this and get your work done.

Mike Russell… You are a… Mac user by the sound of things.

In article <Mk2Db.6154$>, Stephan
wrote:

That’s because only about 600 people use Macs.

You left out some zeros.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:46:29 -0800, "A.K" wrote:

Hi All,

I’ve been told by numerous people that if I’m interested in Video Editing and taking my Photoshop skills to the next level that I should purchase a Mac.
However when I ask "WHY" I’m not really given an answer other than "it’s just better" or "Final Cut Pro can only be used on a Mac". Despite the fact the actual answers might be lengthy I would greatly appreciate any help. My PC mentor insists that purchasing a Mac for video editing and Photoshop is completely unnecessary. I would like to be able to tell him why it is necessary.

There isn’t any good logical reason other than if it’s what the people you work for require. If it is, then you need one. However, you’ll pay more and get a no better machine than if you’d bought a PC. But if it’s what you need…

Incidentally, don’t believe the propaganda about it’s better at this or that. I’ve used both and had to support both and there’s no longer a difference. In fact, in the UK, Apple were running an ad for the new G5 which said that:"the new Apple G5 is the world’s fastest desktop computer." Our Advertising Standards Authority made them withdraw the ad when they couldn’t prove it. Just like all the other things that are supposedly "better" on a Mac.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

Thanks Jerry, but like I said my intentions were not to start a flame war. I understand the passions of both PC and Mac users.
Just a couple more questions, perhaps really dumb questions…… Do "pop-ups" and viruses inundate Macs the same way as PC’s? And why do many people say Macs are easier to use than PC’s? Other than dabbling in my PC’s registry I’ve been, for the most part, been able to naviagte through my machine without much effort at all. How much "easier" can a Mac be? From your post it sounds like your Mac was a pain. If you owned a G5 do you believe you would have had the same troubles as your G4?

Thanks
adam

"Jerry McG" wrote in message

AK, I fear all you will have done here is start a "Mac vs. PC" flame war. I’ll try & give you my experience with both without bias.
I’m a PC user and heard the same thing many times, that Apples Colorsync

was

better than Microsoft’s ICM, etc. blah, blah… Despite the fact I was perfectly happy with the results I was getting from Photoshop and my Epson printers on a PC, I looked into Macs out of curiosity last year and bought

a

1ghz G4 Mac.

After months of frustration and aggravation with Apple’s OSX I finally threw up my hands and sold the thing. First, Photoshop works IDENTICALLY

on

both platforms, there is no advantage one way or the other. Second, if you do direct printing to an Epson printer, the Apple OSX print drivers are a disaster. I ended up having to boot into OS9 to do any reliable printing. Thankfully, OS9 came with my Mac but no longer does. NEVER, despite all

the

complaints about Wintel being problematic, have I experienced the problems

I

encountered with Apple. In the end I was very disappointed, because many

of

the features of the Mac are quite good. I simply was not going to risk my business to a platform switch from which I could find no actual advantage, and a MUCH higher cost.

Apple has a large market share in the graphics community, based upon a leadership position they were in back in the late ’80’s & early ’90s. However, any advantage they had has long since been lost and now it’s

simply

a matter of the system having become a norm in most agencies. I predict

over

time Apple will die a slow death, there just isn;t any advantage to them

at

all.

Hi All,

I’ve been told by numerous people that if I’m interested in Video

Editing

and taking my Photoshop skills to the next level that I should purchase

a

Mac.
However when I ask "WHY" I’m not really given an answer other than "it’s just better" or "Final Cut Pro can only be used on a Mac". Despite the fact the actual answers might be lengthy I would greatly appreciate any help. My PC mentor insists that purchasing a Mac for video editing and Photoshop is completely unnecessary. I would like to be able to tell him why it is necessary.
I’m in the midst of getting a studio job in LA and everyone in

production

uses a Mac. I think that I should get one too. I just want to know what the major differences are between a Mac and a PC, and why I should purchase a Mac.

Much thanks in advance,
Adam

You took me out of context. thats somthing that i have never done or will never do.
i debated your poits of view. You cut the hell out of my response to show it as somthing that it wasnt.

Thanks alot.

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

Frogiswrong wrote:

DRIVEL!

…

You fucking Idiot.

Thats about the best I can say – be ready to join a devoted group of people who are under siege, and try to get past this and get your work done.

Mike Russell… You are a… Mac user by the sound of things.

It’s not often that someone’s nick contains the response to their post. Frog, rivetting as always, is "wrong" on all counts.
This time anyway. 🙂

Take care

—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

well crafted.

"squarefoot" wrote in message

frog IS wrong

Frogiswrong wrote:

DRIVEL!

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

A.K wrote:

Hi All,

I’ve been told by numerous people that if I’m interested in Video Editing and taking my Photoshop skills to the next level that I should purchase a Mac.

These people wont be able to back up this statement with ANYTHING.

However when I ask "WHY" I’m not really given an answer other than "it’s just better" or "Final Cut Pro can only be used on a Mac".

See

Despite the fact the actual answers might be lengthy I would greatly appreciate any help. My PC mentor insists that purchasing a Mac for video editing and Photoshop is completely unnecessary.

Correct

I would like to be able to tell him why it is necessary.

Buy a Falcon or a Commodore neither is better both are different.

I’m in the midst of getting a studio job in LA and everyone in production uses a Mac. I think that I should get one too. I just want to know what the major differences are between a Mac and a PC, and why I should purchase a Mac.

Adam,

If you were working alone, I’d recommend you go straight to the PC for

cost

reasons alone. But you’re not.

Definitely get what the others are using – in this case it looks like Macintosh – you’ll save a bunch of headaches, starting with the first

file

someone emails you. Like BOOM – here’s an EDL, take a look and we

can

talk

after lunch. Well, duh, if you are the only PC you’re going to be up

a

creek.

Not with some decent software.

As for the comparison of the two machines – PC’s are much less

expensive

in

every way, and Macs – the newest models anyway – cost more but have

more

glitz. Buy as good a system as your budget will allow, and especially

get

tons of memory. Find out whether they are on OSX or still on OS9, and follow their lead in that area as well.

There is also a religious fervor on the part of the Mac folks – and I

speak

as someone who worked with them for years and still works with them.

Since

you need to work with them, join them, or at least show a measure of solidarity with them. Not that you’ll have much choice in the matter

🙂

Macintosh people have the best and glitziest equipment, the highest

software

standards – particularly but not limited to an excellent user

interface,

and

a hypnotically charismatic leader in Steve Jobs. In spite of this,

Mac

zealots are in the position of trying to peddle gold in a world that

is in

love with iron.

You fucking Idiot.

Thats about the best I can say – be ready to join a devoted group of

people

who are under siege, and try to get past this and get your work done.

Mike Russell… You are a… Mac user by the sound of things.

Actually I was trying to make you look better by quoting fewer of your unsubstantiated,and incorrect one line contradicitions and obscenities.

You appear determined to ammend that situation, and from what I can see, you are succeeding admirably.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Frogiswrong wrote:

You took me out of context. thats somthing that i have never done or will never do.
i debated your poits of view. You cut the hell out of my response to show it as somthing that it wasnt.

Thanks alot.

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

Frogiswrong wrote:

DRIVEL!

…

You fucking Idiot.

Thats about the best I can say – be ready to join a devoted group of people who are under siege, and try to get past this and get your
work done.

Mike Russell… You are a… Mac user by the sound of things.

It’s not often that someone’s nick contains the response to their post. Frog, rivetting as always, is "wrong" on all counts.
This time anyway. 🙂

Take care

—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

"Steve Moody" wrote in message

In article <Mk2Db.6154$>, Stephan
wrote:

That’s because only about 600 people use Macs.

You left out some zeros.

Sorry, let me fix that: it’s because 600 zeros use the Mac. 😉

Stephan

Hey, just goofing, Macs are as bad as any other machines.

That’s because only about 600 people use Macs.

You left out some zeros.

Sorry, let me fix that: it’s because 600 zeros use the Mac. 😉

LOL

…..my intentions were not to start a flame war.<

My experience, no matter how objedctive one tries to be on this topic the zealots pounce and start calling each other names! 😉

Do "pop-ups" and viruses inundate Macs the same way as PC’s?<

Pop ups yes, viruses, no, at least not at this point. I’m not an expert as to all the reasons why, but one reason is simply there are so few Macs compared to PCs it’s not worth the hackers’ time.

And why do many people say Macs are easier to use than PC’s?<

Back in the dawn of Windows it was simply a GUI sitting on top of the old DOS. There were a lot of issues with Windows 3.1 that have gone away over time with the evolution of Win 95, 98SE, ME, etc.

I found a couple of issues for the PC user switching over 1) on my Mac G4 in order to be as functional as I was in windows I had to run both OS9 and OSX. OSX is simply not fully developed for printing, this added a lot of unnecessary aggravation, 2) OSX crashed rep[eadetly for unknown reasons. Burning CDs, printing, online access alweays seemed to lock up or crash the system and required powered off reboots. Apple offered little in the way of useful help. Thinking I’d corruoppted something I did a clean reinstall of everything, including all the incessant OSX and other Apple software updates, still the same issues.

What finally cooked the things goose was that I could not get consistent color matches from screen to print (Epson 2200), despite the fact I profiled the monitor many times using Monaco Optix and later a Pantone Spyder. My Wintel to 200 proints have been as close to dead-on matches as could be expected with a desktop process. Thus, while I’d invested in the MAc to improve color accuracy and screen to print workflow, the opposite was the result.

Other than dabbling in my PC’s registry I’ve been, for the most part, been

able to naviagte through my machine without much effort at all. How much "easier" can a Mac be?<

Macs aren’t really any "easier" to use at all, they’re just different.

Sounds like your Mac was a pain.<

It was, and it was significantly slower than my 3 year old PIII Wintel system.

If you owned a G5 do you believe you would have had

the same troubles as your G4?<

Yes, it was the OS that was the root cause and I’ve seen nothing lately that would suggest to me the reliability, printing and other problems with OSX have been solved. I monitor the Yahoo Epson Groups constantly an the issues with Mac OSX run 20-1 vs. Wintel.

One GREAT aspect of OSX, it will network with anything and it’s about as easy as it can be.

The only real way to tell if you’d like it or not is simply to spend some time with one doing actual work. For me it just wasn;t worth the trouble, as there was no improvement to be found over what I was using, and it was a LOT more expensive.

Thanks
adam

"Jerry McG" wrote in message

AK, I fear all you will have done here is start a "Mac vs. PC" flame

war.

I’ll try & give you my experience with both without bias.
I’m a PC user and heard the same thing many times, that Apples Colorsync

was

better than Microsoft’s ICM, etc. blah, blah… Despite the fact I was perfectly happy with the results I was getting from Photoshop and my

Epson

printers on a PC, I looked into Macs out of curiosity last year and

bought

a

1ghz G4 Mac.

After months of frustration and aggravation with Apple’s OSX I finally threw up my hands and sold the thing. First, Photoshop works IDENTICALLY

on

both platforms, there is no advantage one way or the other. Second, if

you

do direct printing to an Epson printer, the Apple OSX print drivers are

a

disaster. I ended up having to boot into OS9 to do any reliable

printing.

Thankfully, OS9 came with my Mac but no longer does. NEVER, despite all

the

complaints about Wintel being problematic, have I experienced the

problems

I

encountered with Apple. In the end I was very disappointed, because many

of

the features of the Mac are quite good. I simply was not going to risk

my

business to a platform switch from which I could find no actual

advantage,

and a MUCH higher cost.

Apple has a large market share in the graphics community, based upon a leadership position they were in back in the late ’80’s & early ’90s. However, any advantage they had has long since been lost and now it’s

simply

a matter of the system having become a norm in most agencies. I predict

over

time Apple will die a slow death, there just isn;t any advantage to them

at

all.

Hi All,

I’ve been told by numerous people that if I’m interested in Video

Editing

and taking my Photoshop skills to the next level that I should

purchase

a

Mac.
However when I ask "WHY" I’m not really given an answer other than "it’s just better" or "Final Cut Pro can only be used on a Mac". Despite the fact the actual answers might be lengthy I would greatly appreciate any help. My PC mentor insists that purchasing a

Mac

for video editing and Photoshop is completely unnecessary. I would like to be able to tell him why it is necessary.
I’m in the midst of getting a studio job in LA and everyone in

production

uses a Mac. I think that I should get one too. I just want to know what the major differences are between a Mac and a PC, and why I

should

purchase a Mac.

Much thanks in advance,
Adam

Thanks Jerry,

I apprciate your time educating me on this topic. It looks like I will ultimately have to purchase a Mac. I just hope it’s as painless as possible.

And another thanks to all that have posted their pointers and opinions!

adam

"Jerry McG" wrote in message

…..my intentions were not to start a flame war.<

My experience, no matter how objedctive one tries to be on this topic the zealots pounce and start calling each other names! 😉

Do "pop-ups" and viruses inundate Macs the same way as PC’s?<

Pop ups yes, viruses, no, at least not at this point. I’m not an expert as to all the reasons why, but one reason is simply there are so few Macs compared to PCs it’s not worth the hackers’ time.

And why do many people say Macs are easier to use than PC’s?<

Back in the dawn of Windows it was simply a GUI sitting on top of the old DOS. There were a lot of issues with Windows 3.1 that have gone away over time with the evolution of Win 95, 98SE, ME, etc.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:50:53 -0800, "A.K" wrote:

Thanks Jerry, but like I said my intentions were not to start a flame war. I understand the passions of both PC and Mac users.

All you need to start the war is a subject line that reads Mac v. PC 😉

Just a couple more questions, perhaps really dumb questions…… Do "pop-ups" and viruses inundate Macs the same way as PC’s?

Pop-ups yes. Viruses, well they didn’t used to, but know that Mac users have all the benefits of a Unix kernel, all those nice worms, viruses and trojans that were only available to Unix users become available to Mac users (And there are more of those than there are Windows viruses, etc). A lot are old though. really, it depends on whether someone writing a new virus/worm/trojan thinks it’s worth their while to go for the 3% of web users using Macs…

And why do many people say Macs are easier to use than PC’s?

Because they use Macs and that’s what they’re used to.

Other than dabbling in my PC’s registry I’ve been, for the most part, been able to naviagte through my machine without much effort at all. How much "easier" can a Mac be?

It isn’t if you’re not a Mac user.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

"Hecate" wrote in message

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:50:53 -0800, "A.K" wrote:

Thanks Jerry, but like I said my intentions were not to start a flame

war.

I understand the passions of both PC and Mac users.

All you need to start the war is a subject line that reads Mac v. PC 😉

You’re absoltely correct. Despite my objection my brain takes the occasional
vacation from etiquette. Out of curiosity how would you have titled the subject?

Thanks
adam

"A.K" wrote in message

"Hecate" wrote in message

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:50:53 -0800, "A.K" wrote:

Thanks Jerry, but like I said my intentions were not to start a flame

war.

I understand the passions of both PC and Mac users.

All you need to start the war is a subject line that reads Mac v. PC 😉

You’re absoltely correct. Despite my objection my brain takes the

occasional vacation from etiquette. Out of curiosity how would you have titled the subject?<

You’ve got us, Adam, there’s no way to discuss this topic without getting into a fight! FWIW, not only was I swayed by folks saying I just HAD to use a Mac for photo editing & printing, I fell for Apple’s ad campaign last year. I give them credit, I usually ignore the hype but that series of ads got me in the store.

In article <jAeDb.15053$>, A.K
wrote:

Thanks Jerry, but like I said my intentions were not to start a flame war. I understand the passions of both PC and Mac users.
Just a couple more questions, perhaps really dumb questions…… Do "pop-ups" and viruses inundate Macs the same way as PC’s?

Pop-ups, yes. Unless you turn them off with Safari. Viruses, no. There are no known viruses in OSX. However, there are an average of 3 per day discovered for Windows. Check symantec.com.

And why do many people say Macs are easier to use than PC’s?

Because they are. Yeah. Many here will say that there is no difference. I use both. Mac at home and PC’s at work. There is a difference. The Mac is easier to use.

Two things PC’s do better than a Mac: Run games and control equipment. If you want the best system, use a Play Station for games. It’s better than Windows for games. And since you don’t have a gas chromatograph at home, you don’t have much need for a PC to run it.

Yes, anywhere you can go on a Mac you can go on a PC, but the trip is better, shorter, and cheaper with the Mac. Cheaper? Yes. For what you get when you buy a Mac, you get more for your dollar (or Pound) than if you buy a PC. You can get a PC off the shelf for less money than a Mac, but it’s like the difference between buying a basic car or one with all the options ­ except when you add the options to the PC, it suddenly costs more than the Mac.

Other than dabbling in my PC’s registry I’ve been, for the most part,

That Registry you’re talking about…. It doesn’t take much flubbing to completely screw up Windows. Make a back up before playing with. You’ll be safe that way. There is no file on the Mac that comes close to the Registry. And no need to have it.

The registry ties many of your applications where they were installed. I just added two 120gb drives in my G4. I moved Photoshop to one of them, recreated my aliases, and Photoshop still works fine. Do that in Windows.

been able to naviagte through my machine without much effort at all. How much "easier" can a Mac be? From your post it sounds like your Mac was a pain. If you owned a G5 do you believe you would have had the same troubles as your G4?

Sounds like Jerry was using OS X too early after it’s release. It was a poor choice until 10.2 – many missing features.

Windows has come a long way since 3.1, 95, 98…. XP is the most stable version of Windows I’ve used yet. But being the best version of Windows does not make it as good as a Mac. You want something as good as a Mac? Buy a Mac. If you are happy with Windows stay there.

I had a friend tell that with the release of XP, Windows is just like the Mac. I brought my Powerbook over to his house one day and he says, "What’s that?". "That’s OS X", I tell him. "I’ve never seen an OS like that", he says. "I thought you say XP was just like the Mac". No reply. No matter what anyone says here, Windows is not just like a Mac.

Let me say this one more time. If you are happy with Windows stay there. Windows is a good system. It’s just is not as good as a Mac. Just keep your virus definitions up to date and check daily for security patches and you’ll be just fine. Photoshop works virtually the same in either Windows or Mac OS. The files are completely cross platform. The folks you will be working with will be able to network their Macs with your PC, so you will be able to share file just fine.

Stephan,
Thanks for chopping off the frog’s tongue.
Regarding the zeros…narrow is the way.

Stephan wrote:

Stephan

wrote:

That’s because only about 600 people use Macs.

You left out some zeros.

Sorry, let me fix that: it’s because 600 zeros use the Mac. 😉

Stephan

Hey, just goofing, Macs are as bad as any other machines.

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

Actually I was trying to make you look better by quoting fewer of your unsubstantiated,and incorrect one line contradicitions and obscenities.

Id look again. there were no incorrect or contradictory statments in what i wrote. Unless of course your not a Mac user.
are you?

You appear determined to ammend that situation, and from what I can see,

you

are succeeding admirably.

You lost me here… Ammend what situation? succeeding admirably at what?

Feeding alot of Pro Mac propoganda to someone who doesnt know better is very silly. i have witnessed many people lose it due to the learning difficulties when trying to get their head around the drasticly different OS. A Mac user who has never used a PC before can have a really hard time getting the job done that was once second nature. And like wise swapping from PC to Mac. People who are reasonably computer literate can get past the differences in a blink. You reccomended to A.K to just go for the mac… Why? because others do… thats really stupid. I work in a Mac environment and we are slowly weeding them out in favour of PC’s. We are intergrating a PC here and there as the workflo requires. We have a G3 file server with macs and pcs running operating systems like Unix, NT, 98, XP, 9 and 8.6. all hooked up to the network. We have no issuses at all when it comes to compatability. We care less about the device and more about getting the job done. Were not Mac snobs or PC fanatics, we just want the wok done so we can get home. And the macs are on the way out in favour of PC’s.

I wish AK the best of luck, with what hes got in store, hes gonna need it.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Frogiswrong wrote:

You took me out of context. thats somthing that i have never done or will never do.
i debated your poits of view. You cut the hell out of my response to show it as somthing that it wasnt.

Thanks alot.

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

Frogiswrong wrote:

DRIVEL!

…

You fucking Idiot.

Thats about the best I can say – be ready to join a devoted group of people who are under siege, and try to get past this and get your
work done.

Mike Russell… You are a… Mac user by the sound of things.

It’s not often that someone’s nick contains the response to their post. Frog, rivetting as always, is "wrong" on all counts.
This time anyway. 🙂

Take care

—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Frogiswrong wrote:

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

Actually I was trying to make you look better by quoting fewer of your unsubstantiated,and incorrect one line contradicitions and obscenities.

Id look again. there were no incorrect or contradictory statments in what i wrote. Unless of course your not a Mac user.
are you?

No, I’m not a Mac User. I do own a Mac, but it is not my main system. Windows is.

You appear determined to ammend that situation, and from what I can see, you are succeeding admirably.

You lost me here… Ammend what situation? succeeding admirably at what?

Your efforts are not doing justice to your intelligence and energy. Some of your articles in the past have been shown a degree of intelligence and flexibility that is unusual in any news group. I’ll be polite and just say that your recent post did not do justice to any of that.

I have no disagreement with your comments that follow, and think they are well directed and informative. I think everyone would do well to put their computer preferences in the back seat, and concentrate on the task at hand, and I think that’s the essence of what you say below.

Feeding alot of Pro Mac propoganda to someone who doesnt know better is very silly. i have witnessed many people lose it due to the learning difficulties when trying to get their head around the drasticly different OS. A Mac user who has never used a PC before can have a really hard time getting the job done that was once second nature. And like wise swapping from PC to Mac. People who are reasonably computer literate can get past the differences in a blink. You reccomended to A.K to just go for the mac… Why? because others do… thats really stupid. I work in a Mac environment and we are slowly weeding them out in favour of PC’s. We are intergrating a PC here and there as the workflo requires. We have a G3 file server with macs and pcs running operating systems like Unix, NT, 98, XP, 9 and
8.6. all hooked up to the network. We have no issuses at all when it
comes to compatability. We care less about the device and more about getting the job done. Were not Mac snobs or PC fanatics, we just want the wok done so we can get home. And the macs are on the way out in favour of PC’s.

I wish AK the best of luck, with what hes got in store, hes gonna need it.

The only thing I would add is that, since you do not use an actual name, your posts are anonymous, and thus there is no essential requirement for consistency or courtesy in anything you say. I suggest you change this, sign your articles, and thus stand behind them.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Steve Moody wrote:

In article <jAeDb.15053$>, A.K
wrote:

Because they are. Yeah. Many here will say that there is no difference. I use both. Mac at home and PC’s at work. There is a difference. The Mac is easier to use.

Can you give some examples please? The "I’ve told you once, I’ve told you a million times, now just believe it" just doesn’t work for me. And *yes* my brother-in-law has OS X with the incredibly wide digital monitor, however, I have only had limited time using it.

The registry ties many of your applications where they were installed. I just added two 120gb drives in my G4. I moved Photoshop to one of them, recreated my aliases, and Photoshop still works fine. Do that in Windows.

I have moved applications around on Windows. It is not one step as on a Mac or unix. Edit the registry and search for the path, then change to the new path, recreate shortcuts.

I had a friend tell that with the release of XP, Windows is just like the Mac. I brought my Powerbook over to his house one day and he says, "What’s that?". "That’s OS X", I tell him. "I’ve never seen an OS like that", he says. "I thought you say XP was just like the Mac". No reply. No matter what anyone says here, Windows is not just like a Mac.

I guess your friend has not seen Red Hat 9 or 7 either. When I saw OS X in the adds, my first thought was "looks like X windows on my AIX 4.3.3 boxs but with a better windows manager like linux 9". After reading the white papers, I found that Mac made the switch to unix. Albeit a prettier UI then AIX 4 but certainly X windows — it only took Mac 9 failed attempts. Now if only Windows will make that switch to unix — 2003 failed attempts and still no hope!! In my opionion windows did not start to have a real operating system until Win 2000. All previous OS’s sucked.

The funny thing is that OS X and Red Hat 9 look very similar to me and both are unix based. Critics state that OS X is easy to use while stating that linux is difficult to use.

Len

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:38:27 +1100, "Frogiswrong" wrote:

A Mac user
who has never used a PC before can have a really hard time getting the job done that was once second nature.

I disagree. I jumped from Mac to PC in one afternoon, the first time. There were a couple of things that threw me, but those came from the PC not being postscript "enabled"" (it was connected to a PCI printer and I had no idea such a thing even existed)…….but i had no real trouble navigating or getting my work done.

it’s a very easy jump from one to the other.

`In article <nzEDb.3032$>, l v
wrote:

Steve Moody wrote:

In article <jAeDb.15053$>, A.K
wrote:

Because they are. Yeah. Many here will say that there is no difference. I use both. Mac at home and PC’s at work. There is a difference. The Mac is easier to use.

Can you give some examples please? The "I’ve told you once, I’ve told

You’ve given your own example:

I have moved applications around on Windows. It is not one step as on a Mac or unix. Edit the registry and search for the path, then change to the new path, recreate shortcuts.

Look at all the steps it took to move an application in Wiindows vs. moving an application on the Mac. All I had to do was change my aliases (shortcuts). You had to dig into the registry. Editing the registry is not a beginners task.

Move from dialup to cable modem? Simple. Plug in the cable modem and set the network options to use ethernet instead of dialup. It¹s even easier than that with a newly purchased Mac. When I bought my current Mac, I plugged everything in before turning it on the first time. During boot, it got to a point where it gave a window that said something to the effect of ³You have a cable modem I¹m using it for the Internet.² The only steps I had to take to set up the cable modem was to plug it in, turn on the computer, and click Continue when the computer told me it was now using it.

Want more?

I guess your friend has not seen Red Hat 9 or 7 either. When I saw OS X in the adds, my first thought was "looks like X windows on my AIX 4.3.3 boxs but with a better windows manager like linux 9". After reading the white papers, I found that Mac made the switch to unix. Albeit a prettier UI then AIX 4 but certainly X windows — it only took Mac 9 failed attempts. Now if only Windows will make that switch to unix — 2003 failed attempts and still no hope!! In my opionion windows did not start to have a real operating system until Win 2000. All previous OS’s sucked.

I don¹t like 2000. It¹s a major improvement over 98, except for stability, but if it¹s used as a multi-user system as we have at work, it¹s a lot more trouble than 98. The IT folks can usually fix a problem in 98 pretty easily, but almost every problem in 2000 is fixed with a format and reinstall ­ and with all the software and drivers, it an all day job. We use 98 and 2000 at work. 98 on the older machines 2000 on the newer.

We haven¹t moved to XP, though. A license for 20,000 is a wee bit too high for them now. I use XP in Virtual PC to run a couple of Windows-only apps. I¹ve had very little trouble with XP¹s stability. It¹s gone through so weird behavior ­ freezing, locking up ­ that stuff. But a reboot takes care of it.

The funny thing is that OS X and Red Hat 9 look very similar to me and both are unix based. Critics state that OS X is easy to use while stating that linux is difficult to use.

I¹ve seen a version of Linux. Look pretty neat. Must not be Red Hat
9. It looked like it¹s own animal.

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:27:17 -0800, "A.K" wrote:

"Hecate" wrote in message

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:50:53 -0800, "A.K" wrote:

Thanks Jerry, but like I said my intentions were not to start a flame

war.

I understand the passions of both PC and Mac users.

All you need to start the war is a subject line that reads Mac v. PC 😉

You’re absoltely correct. Despite my objection my brain takes the occasional
vacation from etiquette. Out of curiosity how would you have titled the subject?

<g> How about something like "Most appropriate tool for the job?" After all, that’s really what it boils down to – one selects the most appropriate tools given what your co-workers, business and, most im[portantly, clients require. For me, that’s a PC, but if it meant that I’d large sums of money I’d switch to the Mac like a shot. A computer is just a tool which you use to do various things – whether it’s a PC or a Mac is only important in terms of requirements.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:59:29 -0500, Steve Moody
wrote:

In article <jAeDb.15053$>, A.K
wrote:

Thanks Jerry, but like I said my intentions were not to start a flame war. I understand the passions of both PC and Mac users.
Just a couple more questions, perhaps really dumb questions…… Do "pop-ups" and viruses inundate Macs the same way as PC’s?

Pop-ups, yes. Unless you turn them off with Safari. Viruses, no. There are no known viruses in OSX.

Wrong. OSX is Unix. Unix has more extant viruses, worms and trojans than any other operating system. Don’t be fooled by the pretty GUI – you’re running a Unix machine.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:23:14 -0600, l v wrote:

The funny thing is that OS X and Red Hat 9 look very similar to me and both are unix based. Critics state that OS X is easy to use while stating that linux is difficult to use.

What I find really interesting, Len, is that I as a PC user happily recommend to someone that they use whatever tool is necessary to get the job done. Whereas Mac users (Perhaps we better call them evangelists) will, in any given situation, insist the Mac is best regardless. Sounds like an inferiority complex to me 😉

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

Hum… I try to stay away from these wars, but…

I have only ever owned a Mac. I have made my living for 19 years working on Windows (and some UNIX/Linux) computers. I love OS X on my Mac and it’s my favorite. WinXP is pretty darn good though.

I am moving from a Mac to a Windows computer. The real reason is speed. I don’t mean The G5 vs. the top P4. I mean that my 400 MHz iMac has no upgrade path. Really Macs don’t. (I know there are a few things you can do, but it is really limited.) If I want a faster Mac, I buy a whole new one. So, I do want a dual 2 GHz G5, but I just can’t afford it.

OK, part of the reason is that I got a great deal on a P4 3.06 GHz HT chip, a Intel 865GBL mobo, and Windows XP Pro. That is my core for building my own computer. The idea is that I’ll build one and upgrade the pieces as needed. So, I don’t have to buy a whole new computer. I’ll build it a piece at a time and upgrade a piece at a time.

Yes, it will take more technical knowledge and work, but that’s what I do. I rather enjoy it too. Yes, it won’t always run perfectly at first, but I’ll figure it out. But it will also run very fast; much faster than my old slow iMac.

Let’s see, it should run all the apps I need too. The key one is Photoshop, which will run the same. I also need a web browser; Safari is great but going back to IE won’t kill me. Apple’s Mail program is pretty good at spam filtering, but I’m sure I can find some combination that will work about as well on WinXP. Every now and then I need word processing, spreadsheets, and a small DB. AppleWorks is covering all my needs now. I’m guessing StarOffice will be enough on WinXP. That’s about all I really need. Luckily WinXP has a whole lot more choices to choose from in the area of apps.

Besides, apps are tools to get stuff done. OSes are tools to run apps. Computers are tools to run OSes. If I keep my focus on the stuff I need to do, either Mac or Wintel will get the job done.

<sigh> I’ll miss OS X a bit though. To me the big differences are in the consistence of action. Frankly Windows is pretty darn close now with XP. A few apps don’t follow the rules, but the market has driven them to improve. So, that leaves the shortcut keys. Macs and almost all their apps all work the same way. All shortcut keys work the same in all programs. Since they have to work that way, they have more and easier shortcut keys. Once you get used to them, you can work faster in OS X.

I find that the Windows machines at work make me use the mouse much more. That is just a tad slower. If I wasn’t going back and forth between them, I might not notice or care.

Just my $.02

Clyde

"howldog" wrote in message

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:38:27 +1100, "Frogiswrong" wrote:

A Mac user
who has never used a PC before can have a really hard time getting the

job

done that was once second nature.And like wise swapping from PC to Mac. People who are reasonably computer literate can get past the differences

in

a blink.

I disagree. I jumped from Mac to PC in one afternoon, the first time. There were a couple of things that threw me, but those came from the PC not being postscript "enabled"" (it was connected to a PCI printer and I had no idea such a thing even existed)…….but i had no real trouble navigating or getting my work done.

it’s a very easy jump from one to the other.

"Frogiswrong" wrote in message

"howldog" wrote in message

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:38:27 +1100, "Frogiswrong" wrote:

A Mac user
who has never used a PC before can have a really hard time getting the

job

done that was once second nature.And like wise swapping from PC to Mac. People who are reasonably computer literate can get past the

differences

in

a blink.

I disagree. I jumped from Mac to PC in one afternoon, the first time. There were a couple of things that threw me, but those came from the PC not being postscript "enabled"" (it was connected to a PCI printer and I had no idea such a thing even existed)…….but i had no real trouble navigating or getting my work done.

it’s a very easy jump from one to the other.

As a long time PC user getting used to an iMac took some time. For one thing there was no ‘blank pane’ behind the applications (Word, Excel, Photoshop etc) so if you clicked anywhere else besides the toolbar or open window the window would minimise down onto the dock and so would the toolbar where you had to wave the mouse around to get the dock to pop up and then click again to maximize. This was one of the clunky features, other include the F2 key wouldn’t work anymore and others too. I was pretty disappointed with the machine and now a bare 9 months after getting it I’m expected to shell out even more money to get a Panther upgrade that is supposed to solve some of these bugs.

I wish AK the best of luck, with what hes got in store, hes gonna need it.

You are correct in that I will need as much luck as possible. Especially since I have only ever used a PC. Actually that’s not entirely accurate. 17 years ago I had a Mac 512K Enhanced. About the size of a football, for about a year (are they worth anything?).

I will say this, before moving to Las Vegas I worked in Television production for about 4 years…for the most part back breaking stage work. I worked for about 5 production companies in the 4 years, and in every instance Producers and Accountants used PC’s, and eveyone else (and I mean EVERYONE) used Macs. Editors, Art Dept., Sound Engineers, Lighting, Effects, and a few other dept’s I can’t remember all used Macs. And all I can think is that there has to be a legitamite reason for so many dept’s using them. Why is this? And I stress that I’m not taking anyone’s side in any of
this, but my curiosity is certainly provoked.

Thanks
adam

Steve Moody wrote:

`In article <nzEDb.3032$>, l v
wrote:

Steve Moody wrote:

In article <jAeDb.15053$>, A.K
wrote:

Because they are. Yeah. Many here will say that there is no difference. I use both. Mac at home and PC’s at work. There is a difference. The Mac is easier to use.

Can you give some examples please? The "I’ve told you once, I’ve told

You’ve given your own example:

I have moved applications around on Windows. It is not one step as on a Mac or unix. Edit the registry and search for the path, then change to the new path, recreate shortcuts.

Look at all the steps it took to move an application in Wiindows vs. moving an application on the Mac. All I had to do was change my aliases (shortcuts). You had to dig into the registry. Editing the registry is not a beginners task.

Move from dialup to cable modem? Simple. Plug in the cable modem and set the network options to use ethernet instead of dialup. It¹s even easier than that with a newly purchased Mac. When I bought my current Mac, I plugged everything in before turning it on the first time. During boot, it got to a point where it gave a window that said something to the effect of ³You have a cable modem I¹m using it for the Internet.² The only steps I had to take to set up the cable modem was to plug it in, turn on the computer, and click Continue when the computer told me it was now using it.

This is exactly the same as when I moved to DSL on my win 2000 and XP boxes. I simply plugged the cat-5 into the NIC — no drivers or software to install.

Want more?

I guess your friend has not seen Red Hat 9 or 7 either. When I saw OS X in the adds, my first thought was "looks like X windows on my AIX 4.3.3 boxs but with a better windows manager like linux 9". After reading the white papers, I found that Mac made the switch to unix. Albeit a prettier UI then AIX 4 but certainly X windows — it only took Mac 9 failed attempts. Now if only Windows will make that switch to unix — 2003 failed attempts and still no hope!! In my opionion windows did not start to have a real operating system until Win 2000. All previous OS’s sucked.

I don¹t like 2000. It¹s a major improvement over 98, except for stability, but if it¹s used as a multi-user system as we have at work, it¹s a lot more trouble than 98. The IT folks can usually fix a problem in 98 pretty easily, but almost every problem in 2000 is fixed with a format and reinstall ­ and with all the software and drivers, it an all day job. We use 98 and 2000 at work. 98 on the older machines 2000 on the newer.

This is a full 180 where I work. I hate to see anyone have this type of problems with any computer OS.

We haven¹t moved to XP, though. A license for 20,000 is a wee bit too high for them now. I use XP in Virtual PC to run a couple of Windows-only apps. I¹ve had very little trouble with XP¹s stability. It¹s gone through so weird behavior ­ freezing, locking up ­ that stuff. But a reboot takes care of it.

The funny thing is that OS X and Red Hat 9 look very similar to me and both are unix based. Critics state that OS X is easy to use while stating that linux is difficult to use.

I¹ve seen a version of Linux. Look pretty neat. Must not be Red Hat
9. It looked like it¹s own animal.

My guess is that the differences between the mac and pc have narrowed. UI developers have done a great job at making tasks on computers simpler for us users of computers to accomplish difficult tasks simply. Only one thing left to do … give us an extra arm and hand — 2 for the keyboard and 1 for the mouse.

Good Day

Len

Hecate wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:59:29 -0500, Steve Moody
wrote:

In article <jAeDb.15053$>, A.K
wrote:

Thanks Jerry, but like I said my intentions were not to start a flame war. I understand the passions of both PC and Mac users.
Just a couple more questions, perhaps really dumb questions…… Do "pop-ups" and viruses inundate Macs the same way as PC’s?

Pop-ups, yes. Unless you turn them off with Safari. Viruses, no. There are no known viruses in OSX.

Wrong. OSX is Unix. Unix has more extant viruses, worms and trojans than any other operating system. Don’t be fooled by the pretty GUI – you’re running a Unix machine.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

Hecate

I’ve found that the attitude is different between unix and windows system admins, referring to the server folks. The unix admins tend to watch after their system, close ports that should not be opened, permissions are tight, etc. Whereas the windows admins do not touch the box unless someone complains there is a problem. Same general rules apply to the users. The unix workstation people log in as normal users then su to root for the admin tasks thus leaving the computer vulnerable for a short period of time and prevents them from making stupid user mistakes. The windows users get offended if you have them use a non-admin account to prevent stupid user mistakes. Years ago back on Win 95, people were installing screen savers that would break the network card. The newer OSes have the ability to control the security restricting the users from installing software, including some viruses, thus improving the stability of the computer.

Does OS X suggest the unix way of life? That is, log in as a normal user, then enter roots’ password when making system changes; or are all accounts equal to root?

Oh, as for pop-ups, I use the Mozilla suite for browser (Firebird) and email/news (Thunderbird). Free download, multi-platform, blocks pop-ups, can open links in tabs vs new windows, etc

Len

Hecate wrote:

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:23:14 -0600, l v wrote:

The funny thing is that OS X and Red Hat 9 look very similar to me and both are unix based. Critics state that OS X is easy to use while stating that linux is difficult to use.

What I find really interesting, Len, is that I as a PC user happily recommend to someone that they use whatever tool is necessary to get the job done. Whereas Mac users (Perhaps we better call them evangelists) will, in any given situation, insist the Mac is best regardless. Sounds like an inferiority complex to me 😉
—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

Just like the NASCAR *debates* I hear at work. "Mine is better than yours" and the reasons are all the same for both sides. It a matter of whatever floats your boat, i.e. user preference. Both mac and pc have strengths and weaknesses and both have problems they should not have. A computer should work without problems, regardless of the hardware and OS of preference.

Len

P.S. Ok people, save the NASCAR debate for a different newsgroup!

In article ,
Hecate wrote:

What I find really interesting, Len, is that I as a PC user happily recommend to someone that they use whatever tool is necessary to get the job done. Whereas Mac users (Perhaps we better call them evangelists) will, in any given situation, insist the Mac is best

Just the other day a PC-only coworker showed me an Apple iBook model she was going to buy because she found its specs and price better than the PC laptop competition.

I use both Macs and PCs and prefer Macs but because she had a PC at home, I advised her to get a PC laptop instead.

I think it is best to get a computer (Mac or PC) your family, friends or clients use. A pro may even get both to cover all bases.

BTW, there are not yet any Mac OS X viruses so I’m always amused by the virus hysteria and real problems the PC people have.

—
Matti Haveri <mattiDOThaveriATsjokiDOTutaeiroskaaDOTfi> remove ei roskaa

In article <AVZDb.3077$>,
l v wrote:

Hecate wrote:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:59:29 -0500, Steve Moody
wrote:

In article <jAeDb.15053$>, A.K
wrote:

Thanks Jerry, but like I said my intentions were not to start a flame war. I understand the passions of both PC and Mac users.
Just a couple more questions, perhaps really dumb questions…… Do "pop-ups" and viruses inundate Macs the same way as PC’s?

Pop-ups, yes. Unless you turn them off with Safari. Viruses, no. There are no known viruses in OSX.

Wrong. OSX is Unix. Unix has more extant viruses, worms and trojans than any other operating system. Don’t be fooled by the pretty GUI – you’re running a Unix machine.

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

Hecate

I’ve found that the attitude is different between unix and windows system admins, referring to the server folks. The unix admins tend to watch after their system, close ports that should not be opened, permissions are tight, etc. Whereas the windows admins do not touch the box unless someone complains there is a problem. Same general rules apply to the users. The unix workstation people log in as normal users then su to root for the admin tasks thus leaving the computer vulnerable for a short period of time and prevents them from making stupid user mistakes. The windows users get offended if you have them use a non-admin account to prevent stupid user mistakes. Years ago back on Win 95, people were installing screen savers that would break the network card. The newer OSes have the ability to control the security restricting the users from installing software, including some viruses, thus improving the stability of the computer.

Does OS X suggest the unix way of life? That is, log in as a normal user, then enter roots’ password when making system changes; or are all accounts equal to root?

Oh, as for pop-ups, I use the Mozilla suite for browser (Firebird) and email/news (Thunderbird). Free download, multi-platform, blocks pop-ups, can open links in tabs vs new windows, etc

Len

OS X login doesn’t even allow root to login. You have to login as a Admin account then su to root. By default, root isn’t even enabled on a OS X machine. That is pretty standard for OS X; most services and tools that would cause security problems are turned off by default. OS X really is very secure – by default.

The new Panther (10.3) version does allow user switching. This works very much like Windows XP. So, I can hop over to an Admin account to install or uninstall apps from my regular user account. Another feature makes it so I usually don’t have to; admin functions tried in regular accounts will let me put in the admin ID and password.

BTW, and Admin account in OS X is more like a Power User account in UNIX or Windows. It doesn’t give you full access. For example, I can’t see other user’s ‘home’ directories or the files in them. I can install and uninstall apps though.

Clyde

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:09:05 GMT, Clyde
wrote:

Let’s see, it should run all the apps I need too. The key one is Photoshop, which will run the same. I also need a web browser; Safari is great but going back to IE won’t kill me.

Instead of IE, try Avant. It uses the IE engine, but that’s it. Much better software which you can find at:

http://www.avantbrowser.com/

If you don’t like it, try Mozilla Firebird (NOT Mozilla which is a clunky suite of programs and which I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot bargepole).

You can get Firebird at:

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firebird/

Apple’s Mail program is pretty
good at spam filtering, but I’m sure I can find some combination that will work about as well on WinXP.

The best mail client, but you do have to pay for it, is The Bat, which you can get at:

www.ritlabs.com/the_bat

I guarantee you won’t get any viruses, trojans or anything else. There is a free version, but it’s worth paying for.

If you need something for free and don’t like the Bat, give a try to Mozilla Thunderbird, which is a companion to Firebird. It does newsgroups as well (though I prefer Agent). You can this at:

http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

Note that both Firebird and Thunderbird are "technology previews" i.e. some things may not work as advertised, but I’ve never seen either break down yet, although there will be bugs.

Every now and then I need word
processing, spreadsheets, and a small DB. AppleWorks is covering all my needs now. I’m guessing StarOffice will be enough on WinXP. That’s about all I really need. Luckily WinXP has a whole lot more choices to choose from in the area of apps.

Consider the Microsoft Works Suite. You get a lot more in it and it includes the full version of Word.

Besides, apps are tools to get stuff done. OSes are tools to run apps. Computers are tools to run OSes. If I keep my focus on the stuff I need to do, either Mac or Wintel will get the job done.

Exactly.

P&E

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:40:33 -0600, l v wrote:

I’ve found that the attitude is different between unix and windows system admins, referring to the server folks. The unix admins tend to watch after their system, close ports that should not be opened, permissions are tight, etc. Whereas the windows admins do not touch the box unless someone complains there is a problem. Same general rules apply to the users. The unix workstation people log in as normal users then su to root for the admin tasks thus leaving the computer vulnerable for a short period of time and prevents them from making stupid user mistakes. The windows users get offended if you have them use a non-admin account to prevent stupid user mistakes. Years ago back on Win 95, people were installing screen savers that would break the network card. The newer OSes have the ability to control the security restricting the users from installing software, including some viruses, thus improving the stability of the computer.

The problem is that, these days, there are a lot more home users with Unix machines i.e. home Mac users. It’s safe enough when you have SysAdmins to lock stuff down, but when you don’t… And that, of course, applies to Win machines as well. It’s interesting that in Win Server 2003 *everything* starts locked down and you have to explicitly open things up, so that should apply to Win machines on a client-server from now on.

In the end though, it’s down to volume. Why spend time trying to crack Unix when there are 30 times as many Win users around? 😉

—

Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui

www.julian-kenning.com
—– Original Message —–
From: "Julian Kenning"
To: "A.K"
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: Mac vs. PC Question (newbie)

www.julian-kenning.com
—– Original Message —–
From: "A.K"
Newsgroups: alt.graphics.photoshop
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Mac vs. PC Question (newbie)

I wish AK the best of luck, with what hes got in store, hes gonna need

it.

You are correct in that I will need as much luck as possible. Especially since I have only ever used a PC. Actually that’s not entirely accurate. 17 years ago I had a Mac 512K Enhanced. About the size of a football, for about a year (are they worth

anything?).

I will say this, before moving to Las Vegas I worked in Television production for about 4 years…for the most part back breaking stage

work.

I worked for about 5 production companies in the 4 years, and in every instance Producers and Accountants used PC’s, and eveyone else (and I mean EVERYONE) used Macs. Editors, Art Dept., Sound Engineers, Lighting, Effects, and a few other dept’s I can’t remember all used

Macs.

And all I can think is that there has to be a legitamite reason for so

many

dept’s using them. Why is this? And I stress that I’m not taking

anyone’s

side in any of
this, but my curiosity is certainly provoked.

Thanks
adam

This is because there WAS a time when windows pc’s were almost useless in graphic apps.
mainly because of the lack of performance and stability. so, since most companies of that kind started out on a mac,
they would until today not easily jump to another platform, cause that requires a lot of new time and money investment.
And some simply still believe what was only true ages ago 🙂

www.julian-kenning.com
—– Original Message —–
From: "Julian Kenning"
To: "Frogiswrong"
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: Mac vs. PC Question (newbie)

www.julian-kenning.com
—– Original Message —–
From: "Frogiswrong"
Newsgroups: alt.graphics.photoshop
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Mac vs. PC Question (newbie)

"howldog" wrote in message

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:38:27 +1100, "Frogiswrong" wrote:

A Mac user
who has never used a PC before can have a really hard time getting

the

job

done that was once second nature.And like wise swapping from PC to

Mac.

People who are reasonably computer literate can get past the

differences

in

a blink.

uh, no , certainly not. I was once forced to work on a mac for a month, and since I anyway couldn’t avoid it,
I decided to take the advantage and give the mac a good chance. I was actually expecting to get used to it quickly,
since I heard so often that the mac os is so extremely user friendly. Now let me tell you this,
for somebody who never touched a mac and learned all about pc’s on a windows based machine, the mac can be
a horrific experience of a sadistic interface, that smiles in candy colours out of every corner of the screen, while
leaving you desperately trying to understand its odd behavior. My point is, easy is only the OS you are used to, since you are already familiar with its specific system of logic.
Plus, its very much a matter of personal taste.
Oh and on a sidenote, I had to do a lot of Adobe Illustrator work on that mac
and I swear, never has a pc crashed on me so many times . Man I was glad to be get back to the crash free Illustrator
work on my windows pc at home 🙂

—
www.julian-kenning.com
"Steve Moody" schrieb im Newsbeitrag

In article <jAeDb.15053$>, A.K
wrote:

And why do many people say Macs are easier to use than PC’s?

Because they are. Yeah. Many here will say that there is no difference. I use both. Mac at home and PC’s at work. There is a difference. The Mac is easier to use.

You really should say they are easier to use for y_o_u . anything else is missleading, cause for me and many others I know which are used to windows they are simply not easier to use.
and yes, I have tried .

Two things PC’s do better than a Mac: Run games and control equipment. If you want the best system, use a Play Station for games. It’s better than Windows for games.

well, that really depends on what games you want to play and what you expect of that.
I without no doubt prefer to play on my pc. not only for screen resolution, also because the games I play to either no exist on a console or suffer from a horrible gamepad control scheme .

Yes, anywhere you can go on a Mac you can go on a PC, but the trip is better, shorter, and cheaper with the Mac. Cheaper? Yes. For what you get when you buy a Mac, you get more for your dollar (or Pound) than if you buy a PC. You can get a PC off the shelf for less money than a Mac, but it’s like the difference between buying a basic car or one with all the options

Julian K wrote:
….

a horrific experience of a sadistic interface, that smiles in candy colours out of every corner of the screen, while
leaving you desperately trying to understand its odd behavior.

…..
LOL!
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Really… I wish I’d of said that.

"Julian K" wrote in message

www.julian-kenning.com
—– Original Message —–
From: "Julian Kenning"
To: "Frogiswrong"
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: Mac vs. PC Question (newbie)

www.julian-kenning.com
—– Original Message —–
From: "Frogiswrong"
Newsgroups: alt.graphics.photoshop
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Mac vs. PC Question (newbie)

"howldog" wrote in message

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 19:38:27 +1100, "Frogiswrong" wrote:

A Mac user
who has never used a PC before can have a really hard time getting

the

job

done that was once second nature.And like wise swapping from PC to

Mac.

People who are reasonably computer literate can get past the

differences

in

a blink.

uh, no , certainly not. I was once forced to work on a mac for a month,

and

since I anyway couldn’t avoid it,
I decided to take the advantage and give the mac a good chance. I was actually expecting to get used to it quickly,
since I heard so often that the mac os is so extremely user friendly. Now let me tell you this,
for somebody who never touched a mac and learned all about pc’s on a

windows

based machine, the mac can be
a horrific experience of a sadistic interface, that smiles in candy

colours

out of every corner of the screen, while
leaving you desperately trying to understand its odd behavior. My point is, easy is only the OS you are used to, since you are already familiar with its specific system of logic.
Plus, its very much a matter of personal taste.
Oh and on a sidenote, I had to do a lot of Adobe Illustrator work on that mac
and I swear, never has a pc crashed on me so many times . Man I was glad

to

be get back to the crash free Illustrator
work on my windows pc at home 🙂