Upgrading on CS Suite .. an all or nothing deal?

GH
Posted By
Grass_Hopper
Sep 30, 2003
Views
1939
Replies
58
Status
Closed
I have not been able to get to the pdf to read all the infomation about the CS Suite, but have a question. As I understand it, if one were to upgrade (for instance) their PS7 for the CS Suite of products, later when an upgrade is announced (say IL), collection owners would be required to upgrade the ENTIRE COLLECTION and not just one component of that collection? Please, say it isn’t so!!

For instance, lets say I get the Premium Edition and find that while I enjoy using ID and GL, I find the only product that I am interested in upgrading is IL. Will I be FORCED to buy the newer version of the Suite in order to only get the newest version of IL?

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RB
Robert_Blackwell
Sep 30, 2003
What makes you think that??

AFIAK you’ll be able to upgrade products individually as you’ve always been able to with collections.
RH
r_harvey
Sep 30, 2003
I have not been able to get to the pdf to read all the infomation about the CS Suite, but have a question.

Some PDF features require Adobe Reader 6.
GH
Grass_Hopper
Sep 30, 2003
If I could access the silly pdf file I would read it for myself, but there seems to be a problem in accessing it. Maybe too many people trying to get the file? In any case, it has been suggested to me that you will not be able to upgrade a first version product, if you purchsed it within the collection setup, without purchasing the entirely upgraded collection. I just want clarification on that point.

I was giving serious consideration to purchasing the collection, but I will not if they tie my hands for later upgrades. I might have the money to buy a collection now, but that in no way guarantees that I will have it later. Not only that, I might find that a component within the collection might not be as useful to me as I thought and I would hate to be FORECED to upgrade it too because it came with the collection.
RB
Robert_Blackwell
Oct 1, 2003
That sounds pretty rediculous to me. Unless it’s changed in the new CS series, you will be able to upgrade individual titles. You’ve been misinformed, but you can always call Adobe to double check ๐Ÿ™‚
GH
Grass_Hopper
Oct 1, 2003
Robert,

I am thinking that it *has* changed in the CS format … that’s why I want clarification ๐Ÿ™‚

I was hoping someone "in the know" would come in here and give this grasshopper have a little more knowledge ๐Ÿ˜‰
RO
Robert_Oliver
Oct 1, 2003
That sounds pretty rediculous to me. Unless it’s changed in the new CS series, you will be able to upgrade individual titles. You’ve been misinformed, but you can always call Adobe to double check

No need to call Adobe (Page 4 at the bottom): < http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/pdfs/creativesui te_faq.pdf>

Once you have purchased the CS you are locked into upgrading the whole thing, and cannot do individual upgrades.
GH
Grass_Hopper
Oct 1, 2003
That’s a bad idea. Locking the customers into collection upgrades, especially if they don’t *need* the other products just isn’t right.

Adobe, what are you thinking?

I will tell you this, I won’t be buying the collections. I’ll not be locked into that sort of upgrade scheme.
JH
Jake_Hannam
Oct 1, 2003
Robert already pointed out the following factoid (from the PDF) in the GoLive forum but it is worth mentioning again.

With CS, Adobe has completely abandoned their up-to-now excellent practice of including printed user guides for each app. Now, you have to pay an extra ‘fee’ to get the manuals. The user guides were always something I thought helped set Adobe above the competition. Even the recently released Video Collection includes user guides so why this sudden change? I guess that helps explain their generous offer of free shipping. How much could it cost to send five CDs and a flimsy ‘integration guide’?

I have already cancelled my upgrade order due to this fact. Others probably could care less but I like the manuals (and the ability to read them anywhere, anytime I want). I think it is an unfortunate oversight or, perhaps, another grab for extra money from the users.

Jake
DM
Don_McCahill
Oct 1, 2003
From the FAQ
< http://www.adobe.com/products/colltech/pdfs/coll_eol_ctg_092 903.pdf>

Photoshop CS with ImageReady CS, Illustrator CS, InDesign CS, GoLive CS and Acrobat 6.0 Professional area all still available for standalone licensing, as new products or as upgrades.

But

Customers who license the Adobe Creative Suite will have an upgrade path to future releases of Adobe Creative Suite, but not from the suite to standalone products.

So you cannot currently do what you suggest, GH. However, I would like to hear from someone at Adobe justify this, because it seems pretty silly to me. If you have bought the suite, but decide not to use any of the other programs, then you should be able to upgrade to PS 9 when it comes out.

I think if you upgrade to the Premium version, you should be able to later upgrade to the Standard version (but not the opposite, unless for a higher fee).

The cost for an full suite upgrade is pricy, almost as much as some of the components cost new, so I can see why one might hold off on buying the suite if you don’t use all the tools.
JS
John_Spragens
Oct 1, 2003
Ouch! How did so many bad ideas get rolled into one release?

I use my Adobe manuals — the paper books — for reference all the time. I’d be pretty frustrated without them.

And not letting people upgrade individual products if they buy into the suite?

Ommmmm …… (Gotta do something to calm my mind.)
RH
r_harvey
Oct 1, 2003
Never mind. I’m gonna have to write faster.
RB
Robert_Blackwell
Oct 1, 2003
Wow, I’m glad you guys clarified that one. I don’t really know what to say :X

I wonder how this is gonna pan out. I was planning on waiting till around Christmas to "upgrade" and I guess I better not sell my Design Collection so I can upgrade individually off of that incase I do get the ACS. I guess anyone who uses Acrobat is gonna end up getting Premium since it wouldn’t be worth it to get standard and buy/upgrade Acrobat separately.

My guess Carol, is that CS2 products will know a CS1 serial number and refuse to install because it wasn’t a stand a lone retail version.
CS
Carol_Steele
Oct 1, 2003
I don’t see why you would not be able to upgrade one of the existing stand alone products which you already have. Simply put the upgrade CD in the drawer and when it asks for the older version to cofirm you are a registered user, simply use PS7 as proof of ownership.

Admittedly, this would be more difficult (or impossible) if you want to upgrade one of the products which you have in the Suite which you didn’t own prior to purchasing the Suite.


Carol
(Posted from the UK)
GH
Grass_Hopper
Oct 1, 2003
Hi Carol,

Admittedly, this would be more difficult (or impossible) if you want to upgrade one of the products which you have in the Suite which you didn’t own prior to purchasing the Suite.

Which is my very point. I don’t have all the products in the Suite, which is what makes it so tempting, but not at the cost of the upgrade format.
Y
YrbkMgr
Oct 1, 2003
Well I only use photoshop and Acrobat; I was considering CS suite since there may be some functionality there that we could use. But it sounds like a bad investment unless you know you will use all of them.

Also, the presents another problem. That means that all products in the suite will have to have a new feature set each time they announce an upgrade, whether it’s ready or not for an upgrade. So, PS 8 has all kinds of whirly dirly’s but Acrobat may be a "yawn" of an upgrade because it had to be ready when the PS upgrade was ready. Users won’t have the choice of saying "ya know, Acrobat is just fine for what we need now, no reason to upgrade it".

Hmm…
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 1, 2003
How did so many bad ideas get rolled into one release?

I was wondering the exact same thing. Sounds like too many lawyers and marketing folks sitting in on the product meetings.
Y
YrbkMgr
Oct 1, 2003
<nodding>

The only thing is, the new feature set is pretty damn compelling. It’s just going to cost us an arm and a leg, between OS upgrades and software upgrades… I’m beginning to wonder now.
RB
Robert_Blackwell
Oct 1, 2003
Okay, now the real question from me then is: Can I upgrade to ACS from PS 2.5? :o)
Y
YrbkMgr
Oct 1, 2003
Or how about from PSE?
RH
r_harvey
Oct 1, 2003
The stars of the upgrade look like ImageReady (with the best parts from LiveMotion) and InDesign (the best parts from PageMaker). Most else looks like tailfins.
L
LenHewitt
Oct 1, 2003
From Lynn Grillo in teh GoLive forum:

Just to clarify: the individual products come with printed user guides.

The suite has a printed guide that covers the workflow between products, and the individual user guides are in PDF (searchable) and in HTML (also searchable) and those contain additional information that is not in the printed guides. The Workflow Guide is really nicely done, set up as a series of projects. Also included in the package is actual training on CD from Total Training and I think there are some other goodies.
CS
Carol_Steele
Oct 1, 2003
Can I upgrade to ACS from PS 2.5?<

Do you mean the full Creative Suite?? I am not sure what the requisites are for qualification for an upgrade vs a full version. Adobe has never distinguished version numbers in the past for single product upgrades (although obviously you needed help from Customer Support if using the floppy versions of 2.5, 3.0 or 3.05 as you had no CD to swap in and out for product verification).


Carol
(Posted from the UK)
RO
Robert_Oliver
Oct 1, 2003
Okay, now the real question from me then is: Can I upgrade to ACS from PS 2.5? )

You might be able to, but you would have to call Adobe. The CS installer will only recognize Photoshop 5.5 and up. If it’s a valid copy of Photoshop I would think that they would honor it.
RO
Robert_Oliver
Oct 1, 2003
And not letting people upgrade individual products if they buy into the suite?

I think one of the reasons (other than the obvious money-making ones) are that the Creative Suites have one serial number for all of the programs (they get installed with one installer program), so it might be difficult to "spawn" an upgrade of a particular program off of that single serial number.

Also, I think that Adobe is assuming that anyone that buys the software all in one bunch are more likely to want to upgrade everything when the time comes. I personally would love to do that, but can’t necessarily afford it (and would be a bit overwhelemed trying to absorb the new features of four major programs at once).

Of course, anyone who decided to take the plunge into a Crative Suite to see what InDesign or GoLive are like, and later decided that they didn’t want to or couldn’t use them, would be in a bit of a bind.

I’m sticking to the simplicity of upgrading each program individually, and at the quickest rate that my finances can handle! ๐Ÿ™‚
RL
Robert_Levine
Oct 1, 2003
I’m sticking to the simplicity of upgrading each program individually, and at the quickest rate that my finances can handle! ๐Ÿ™‚

I am too. I’ve already decided to go for ID and PS. I’m not quite sold on my need for new version of Illustrator.

This new way of doing things is straight out of Microsoft’s playbook. It’s very much like MS Office. You can buy all of the pieces as Office or you can go out and buy just Word, Exel or PowerPoint if you wish. But once you’ve gone the Office route, that’s what you’re tied to going forward.

This is not a bad bad thing per se, but I do question the use of only Photoshop as a legitimate vehicle for getting upgrade pricing on the suite. I think ID and Ill users should get some equal treatment here.

Bob
RB
Robert_Barnett
Oct 1, 2003
You should be able to do individual products. You have in the past.

That said I would guess that since all of these were released at the same time that from now on they will all be upgraded at the same time so it shouldn’t be a problem.

Just guessing.

Robert
RL
Robert_Levine
Oct 1, 2003
You should be able to do individual products. You have in the past.

And you still can. The "problem" arises if you go to the suite. Once you’re in, you’re in. All future upgrades will be suite upgrades.

Bob
GH
Grass_Hopper
Oct 1, 2003
Yes, but in the past, you could buy a collection AND upgrade the individual components, as needed/wanted.

Now they are forcing you into the suite, if you buy it once, you buy it forever.

I don’t like this sort of marketing. ๐Ÿ™ I don’t feel it’s fair to the loyal customers.
JD
Jeff_Darken
Oct 1, 2003
Version Cue does not seems to be included in the UK CS offering. The prices are quite high! Check them out to see how fortunate you are in the US there are 1.6 dollars to the pound sterling.

Jeff
IL
Ian_Lyons
Oct 1, 2003
Jeff,

Version Cue IS included in the UK version!

Direct quote from the blurb on Adobes UK site

Intuitive file finding ย— Use Version Cueย™ file-management technology to find files quickly by viewing thumbnails or search on robust metadata such as description, keywords, author, copyright, and file type.
RL
Robert_Levine
Oct 1, 2003
GH,

I agree, to a point. I can see Adobe tieing you in if you buy the suite upgrade. That’s one hell of a deal for someone who only owns Photoshop. But if you’re buying the suite without upgrade pricing then yes, I think you should be able to upgrade one app at a time.

Trouble is that they’ve changed things a bit. It now works like MS Office. You get one serial number so the suite is actually treated like one application.

Bob
Y
YrbkMgr
Oct 1, 2003
In truth, I don’t mind the MS Suite. I use all the products that come with it (well, most of them). I bought Office 2000 Developer edition and was NOT required to activate, although I heard that some were (??).

I think the designer has to pick his poison so to speak. Personally, Ala Carte is a better route for me because I’d never use Premier (or would I???). I have Illustrator 8 but NEVER use it. So while the price for a suite is tempting and you get all this great stuff, you kind of have to evaluate what you really would use and "pay the price" so to speak for that decision down the road – it’s a gamble but, it seems like what you have to do.

I can’t see, however, why they should prevent a PS upgrade to version 9, if you bought the Suite earlier. Microsoft actually does something like "qualifying product" for their upgrades – at least they did. So I can’t see a problem for Adobe in allowing it. Having said that, I DO, however, see the benefit to Adobe for not allowing ala carte upgrades for suite owners – revenue.
DH
Dave Hamer
Oct 2, 2003
Grass_Hopper

I don’t like this sort of marketing. ๐Ÿ™ I don’t feel it’s fair to the loyal customers.
loyal customers don’t buy individual programs, they only buy the suites.
JD
Jeff_Darken
Oct 3, 2003
Do you know Ian,

I swear that (Version Cue in the list of products)wasn’t there earlier!

Jeff
GH
Grass_Hopper
Oct 3, 2003
I still don’t like it <pout>
DE
david_evanson
Oct 6, 2003
I am tempted by the CS Suit upgrade from PS7.01 – as a one off purchase I can just about justify it ย– but if it locks me in to a ยฃ560+ upgrade costs in future it looks less attractive.

The only upgrade option listed is from Photoshop ย– will there also be a cheaper option next time to upgrade from CS Suit?

Is it safe to assume that when Photoshop CS2 comes along I would be able to just purchase that upgrade ย– using my media from PS4 (full version) or any of the 5,6 7 upgrades as verification of the full product?
I am worried that it will be a case of future PS upgrades seeing the CS Suit and not looking for/allowing PS4 to be used for verification or having to uninstall CS Suit and having no way to reinstall the other programs afterwards.
DM
Don_McCahill
Oct 6, 2003
David

I am pretty sure that PS CS will be considered a new product, with a new serial number, and therefore you will not have to use PS4 to install it. This is just a guess though, based on the fact that one serial number is apparently good for the entire suite.
DE
david_evanson
Oct 7, 2003
Looking at the Creative Suite FAQ (bottom page 4) it is not clear to me what ย“ย…Creative Suite will have an upgrade path for future releases of Adobe Creative Suite, but not from the suite to standalone productsย” implies for future upgrade costs.

The UK cost of the CS Premium upgrade from PS7 of ยฃ663.88, saving ยฃ1,567 on upgrading PS and buying the full produce for all the others ย– a good deal. The catch being the cost of the next CS upgrade. Considering the upgrade cost as a percentage of the full price PS and InDesign are the best value at 24% with GoLive the worst at 41%, as an upgrade CS Premium works out at 60%. Looking at the cost of all the individual products in CS Premium I get ยฃ2,690/ยฃ784 (full/ug) ย– upgrading being about 30%. Now will the next release of CS Premium allow for an upgrade based on the current 60% or will it be closer to 30% as we will no longer be upgrading just from Photoshop.

Apologies for rambling on ย– I guess it can be broken down to a simple question ย– Will there be two upgrade prices for CS2 ย– one from Photoshop only and/or one from CS1?

Also I should probably ask this in the GoLive forum but any thoughts on moving from Dreamweaver/Fireworks 3 to GoLive CS?
DM
Don_McCahill
Oct 7, 2003
Question 1. Apparently no. You will only be able to upgrade CS to the newer version. You will only be able to upgrade to the new Photoshop from a former version of photoshop. (However, it was wisely pointed out that most of us already have an older version of PS — at least 6 or 7) and could thus upgrade from that if we didn’t want the full suite.

Only the person who buys the full CS suite is going to be locked into full-suite upgrades.

Second question. I don’t use Dreamweaver much, though I now have GL as well. But IR CS is going to have to be way better to keep me from sticking with Fireworks 4.
RH
r_harvey
Oct 7, 2003
212 OpenType fonts bundled with Creative Suite <http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?13@@.2ccdbf88/0> in Typography Forum

Families include:

Adobe Caslon Pro, Adobe Ming Std, Adobe Myungjo Std, Adobe Garamond Pro, Adobe Jenson Pro, Bernhard Modern Std, Birch Std, Brioso Pro, Brush Script Std, Caflisch Script Pro, Century Old Style Std, Chaparral Pro, Charlemagne Std, Courier Std, Giddyup Std, Kenten Generic, Kozuka Gothic Pro, Kozuka, Mincho Pro, Letter Gothic Std, Lithos Pro, Minion Pro, Myriad Pro, Myriad Std (Tilt & Sketch), News Gothic Std, Nueva Std, Poplar Std, Prestige Elite Std, Rosewood Std, Ryo Kana Std, Stencil Std, Trajan Pro, Viva Std, Warnock Pro, Woodtype Ornaments Std.
J
jeffreyjburke
Oct 7, 2003
This may be off, but I bet the new Adobe CS Suite will be much like the current Macromedia MX Studio Suite and Microsoft Office Suite (as already pointed out), where there’s one and serial number and all the applications on the one CD. This makes upgrading from Suite to Suite logical, instead of individual applications.

As far as Dreamweaver and Fireworks go, I prefer Photoshop and Image ready over fireworks for comps and mock-ups. Fireworks never gave me enough control over design elements like Photoshop does. However, Dreamweaver MX is a solid program and I am quite happy with it so far. I have used Pagemill and GoLive in the past too, but Dreamweaver is still my preferance.
L
LenHewitt
Oct 8, 2003
212 OpenType fonts bundled with Creative Suite <<

Which MAY sound a very attractive offer, but could be very expensive in the long run as with the Suite you will then be tied in to Creative Suite upgrades at a considerable expense over of few years……
RL
Robert_Levine
Oct 8, 2003
you will then be tied in to Creative Suite upgrades at a considerable expense over of few years……

But only for Photoshop. I agree it’s a gamble for anyone who automatically upgrades Photoshop and will always want the latest version. But if you have licenses for the other apps you can still upgrade them individually.

A lot of people seem to be finding this very confusing and I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that sales aren’t quite what Adobe had hoped.

Bob
L
LenHewitt
Oct 8, 2003
But only for Photoshop. <<

I don’t see any distinction, Bob.

If you have a license for Photoshop 7 you will be able to Upgrade to the Creative Suite, but I can’t see any problem later upgrading to Photoshop CS2 using your Photoshop 7 CD as the verifying product or Illustrator CS2 from your Illustrator 10 etc. etc.

Where it WILL make a difference is for new purchasers of Creative Suite who do not have a license for Photoshop at present. They will be locked-in to Creative Suite upgrades for life, even if they no longer have any use for some of the products in the Suite.

In either case, though, as Adobe have now committed to simultaneous releases of new versions of all the products included in the Creative Suite, for those of us who run multiple Adobe Products will find ourselves shelling out for all applications at the same time (if we wish to remain current) whether via the Creative Suite or individual products, rather than having the expense spread.
RL
Robert_Levine
Oct 8, 2003
If you have a license for Photoshop 7 you will be able to Upgrade to the Creative Suite, but I can’t see any problem later upgrading to Photoshop CS2 using your Photoshop 7 CD as the verifying product or Illustrator CS2 from your Illustrator 10 etc. etc.

But once you upgrade to the suite using the PS 7 license you have changed the license to a suite license. At least the way I interpret it, you can’t use it for another upgrade.

Bob
L
LenHewitt
Oct 9, 2003
Bob,

I was discussing the mechanics rather than the legality……

However, provided that you didn’t then sell the Suite, (transferring the suite license), I can’t see that it ‘hurts’ Adobe, and doubt a prosecution even being considered. Sort of back to the basic rules of "one license, one product, two machines"…..
RL
Robert_Levine
Oct 9, 2003
I was discussing the mechanics rather than the legality……

And I was discussing the legalities and not the mechanics. <g>

Bob
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 11, 2003
But once you upgrade to the suite using the PS 7 license you have changed the license to a suite license. At least the way I interpret it, you can’t use it for another upgrade.

are we sure about that? can we get some "official" confirmation from someone who knows for sure?

for me, the answer is likely the diff between 2 upgrades (ps and Ill.) and the suite.

thanks, dave
DM
Don_McCahill
Oct 11, 2003
Robert

I read it that, unless Adobe makes a major change in how they do upgrades, anyone who now has PS7 and upgrades to the suite would be able to upgrade to PS9 by using the PS7 program. Adobe has always let you upgrade from any full version.

Thus, as Len notes, it is only the people who start off on the CS route who will be stuck to upgrading within the suite.

Plus, I suspect that the marketing wizards at Adobe will follow the Microsoft example and have a myriad of different ways to bundle the apps before the next release rolled around. MS found with Office that Word and Excel drove the sales, and nobody would pay extra for Outlook or PowerPoint, so those apps were through-ins to the basic package. A limited number of people wanted Access, Publisher or FrontPage, so those apps became available in premium packages.

I’m betting that by the end of 2004 Adobe will have more than two versions of CS, and you will be able to upgrade down (perhaps up, at a cost) to a smaller suite.

Just guessing again. I am assuming the way that Adobe folk have avoided this thread, that no policy is made, and no one is going to stick out their neck by commenting.
IL
Ian_Lyons
Oct 11, 2003
The benefit of buying the suite over upgrading individual apps is "Version Cue".
RL
Robert_Levine
Oct 11, 2003
are we sure about that? can we get some "official" confirmation from someone who knows for sure?

Like I said, it’s my interpretation, so no, it’s not the official policy.

Bob
RL
Robert_Levine
Oct 11, 2003
I am assuming the way that Adobe folk have avoided this thread, that no policy is made, and no one is going to stick out their neck by commenting.

Well if they can’t figure it out, I certainly can’t. I would think that physically there would be no problem. It’s just an interpretation of the license. Does the CS license replace the original PS license or not?

Bob
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 11, 2003
I know we’re not going to get "official" in here, that’s why I used the quotes. ๐Ÿ™‚ I was just hoping someone like Stephanie et. al (who have been responding in other threads) would ease my worries on this so I can go ahead and order one or the other.

I just would not like to lose the right to upgrade just photoshop (from ver 7) or Ill. (from ver 8) if I get a suite. I understand the GoLive, Acrobat and InDesign would not be upgradable except for within a suite. But as a prior owner of the other 2 apps (Ill. and PS) can I still use them to upgrade those apps standalone if I feel I don’t need to upgrade the suite later on?
DM
Don_McCahill
Oct 11, 2003
Doncha just love automatic smileys? (You can’t type ver 8 followed by a ).
RL
Robert_Levine
Oct 11, 2003
You can certainly use Illustrator because you’re not using that to upgrade to the suite. You are however using the Photoshop license. That’s why I’d like to get some clarification.

Bob
DE
david_evanson
Oct 11, 2003
In the FAQ it indicated that the printed manuals would be available for the CS Suite at extra cost – has anyone any ideas/links to how much that will be in the UK? Can they be ordered at the same time as the CS Suite upgrade?
DM
dave_milbut
Oct 11, 2003
Doncha just love automatic smileys?

ya know, i didn’t even notice that! ๐Ÿ™‚ <— intentional text smiley that will be converted <sigh>

You can certainly use Illustrator because you’re not using that to upgrade to the suite.

Good point.

You are however using the Photoshop license. That’s why I’d like to get some clarification.

Me too! ๐Ÿ™‚
JR
Jen_Rose
Oct 13, 2003
If you have a license for Photoshop 7 you will be able to Upgrade to the Creative Suite, but I can’t see any problem later upgrading to Photoshop
CS2
using your Photoshop 7 CD as the verifying product or Illustrator CS2
from
your Illustrator 10 etc. etc.

But once you upgrade to the suite using the PS 7 license you have changed the license to a suite license. At least the way I interpret it, you can’t use it for another upgrade.

Except when you throw activation into the mix, it might well be a problem.

Jenrose

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