Best way to photograph to make it easy to cut out the background

T
Posted By
tanast
Nov 17, 2003
Views
520
Replies
5
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Closed
We currently shoot pics of all our product on a white, light table to make it easy to cut away the background and use the shots in printed catalogues.

Problem is that the light table is not so good any more… it’s getting a little scratched an dirty and we still have some issues with shadows when it comes to cutting the pictures out.

Is anyone doing anything smarter than all that? I’m thinking Star Wars and Blue Screen backgrounds that can be eliminated with the click of a button?

Many thanks.

Tino

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U
usenet
Nov 17, 2003
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:58:45 GMT, wrote:

We currently shoot pics of all our product on a white, light table to make it easy to cut away the background and use the shots in printed catalogues.

Problem is that the light table is not so good any more… it’s getting a little scratched an dirty and we still have some issues with shadows when it comes to cutting the pictures out.

Is anyone doing anything smarter than all that? I’m thinking Star Wars and Blue Screen backgrounds that can be eliminated with the click of a button?

The idea of the blue (or green, etc) screen is that the colour is something that doesn’t appear in the subject matter of the shot. Thus, when you select that colour, you’re not inadvertently selecting anything that appears in the foreground.

Occasionally, particulaly with a junior weatherman, you’ll spot a hole in the chest of the weatherman on television as he is pointing at the overlayed weather map behind him. That’s because he ended up wearing a tie which had colours similar to the alpha they were using for the background. Video alpha more or less works on a similar principle to a fiilm bluescreen, though it is processed in realtime via video circuitry.

Since even with a digitial camera, the background is going to have some "noise" in it (take a shot and zoom way in), you have to contend with a "similar colours" selection anyway, though probably only to about 3% or so.

The trick with a bluescreen is to thoroughly illuminate the bluescreen from a point behind your subject matter with directional lighting, so that shadows are not cast onto the bluescreen from your foreground illumination, while at the same time, the foreground isn’t illuminated from behind. If you don’t do this properly, you’ll have a great number of blue-ish hues to mask around the edges of your subject matter..

It might also help to note that to minimize light coming in at the subject from different angles, such photography is best done in a draped or blackwall room (i.e. where the surroundings do not reflect significant light back upon the subject).

As for your use of a light table – you certainly don’t want to bring light up from your table onto your subject matter, since you can’t simply mask on that light colour – you’ll have an obvious halo around your subject, which is the same reason for illuminating the bluescreen with directional lamps from behind the subject matter.

BTW, for light tables/boxes, you should consider heading to a plastics shop and getting a replacement top insert. Just record the dimensions of the original, and reorder when necessary. Alternatley (and this depends on your optical needs), you might get some untinted plate glass to overlay on the top. Glass is remarkably scratch resistant (certainly much more so than plastic), so what you end up with is a semi-opaque plastic sheet which diffuses the light, and a glass sheet above that for hardness and protection.

I imagine the production snippets available on some DVDvideos these days should include some minimal footage of a blue or green screen layout from a productions POV, instead of merely through the camera filming the subject.

You might also get some additional pointers by checking forums frequented by video production people, such as those for Adobe Premiere, since when you’re working with thousands of frames of video, you want the screen to work without a lot of manual tweaking.
T
tanast
Nov 17, 2003
Thanks a lot for your help and time.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:17:47 -0800, "Sean Straw (to email, replace lutefisk with mail)" wrote:

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:58:45 GMT, wrote:

We currently shoot pics of all our product on a white, light table to make it easy to cut away the background and use the shots in printed catalogues.

Problem is that the light table is not so good any more… it’s getting a little scratched an dirty and we still have some issues with shadows when it comes to cutting the pictures out.

Is anyone doing anything smarter than all that? I’m thinking Star Wars and Blue Screen backgrounds that can be eliminated with the click of a button?

The idea of the blue (or green, etc) screen is that the colour is something that doesn’t appear in the subject matter of the shot. Thus, when you select that colour, you’re not inadvertently selecting anything that appears in the foreground.

Occasionally, particulaly with a junior weatherman, you’ll spot a hole in the chest of the weatherman on television as he is pointing at the overlayed weather map behind him. That’s because he ended up wearing a tie which had colours similar to the alpha they were using for the background. Video alpha more or less works on a similar principle to a fiilm bluescreen, though it is processed in realtime via video circuitry.

Since even with a digitial camera, the background is going to have some "noise" in it (take a shot and zoom way in), you have to contend with a "similar colours" selection anyway, though probably only to about 3% or so.

The trick with a bluescreen is to thoroughly illuminate the bluescreen from a point behind your subject matter with directional lighting, so that shadows are not cast onto the bluescreen from your foreground illumination, while at the same time, the foreground isn’t illuminated from behind. If you don’t do this properly, you’ll have a great number of blue-ish hues to mask around the edges of your subject matter..

It might also help to note that to minimize light coming in at the subject from different angles, such photography is best done in a draped or blackwall room (i.e. where the surroundings do not reflect significant light back upon the subject).

As for your use of a light table – you certainly don’t want to bring light up from your table onto your subject matter, since you can’t simply mask on that light colour – you’ll have an obvious halo around your subject, which is the same reason for illuminating the bluescreen with directional lamps from behind the subject matter.

BTW, for light tables/boxes, you should consider heading to a plastics shop and getting a replacement top insert. Just record the dimensions of the original, and reorder when necessary. Alternatley (and this depends on your optical needs), you might get some untinted plate glass to overlay on the top. Glass is remarkably scratch resistant (certainly much more so than plastic), so what you end up with is a semi-opaque plastic sheet which diffuses the light, and a glass sheet above that for hardness and protection.

I imagine the production snippets available on some DVDvideos these days should include some minimal footage of a blue or green screen layout from a productions POV, instead of merely through the camera filming the subject.

You might also get some additional pointers by checking forums frequented by video production people, such as those for Adobe Premiere, since when you’re working with thousands of frames of video, you want the screen to work without a lot of manual tweaking.
H
Hecate
Nov 18, 2003
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:58:45 GMT, wrote:

We currently shoot pics of all our product on a white, light table to make it easy to cut away the background and use the shots in printed catalogues.

Problem is that the light table is not so good any more… it’s getting a little scratched an dirty and we still have some issues with shadows when it comes to cutting the pictures out.

Is anyone doing anything smarter than all that? I’m thinking Star Wars and Blue Screen backgrounds that can be eliminated with the click of a button?

Many thanks.

Tino

Depends whether you need cast shadows or not., as you don’t say what your product is. But, a white light tent is always a good idea. Nice even light, shadowless and it’s easy to delete.



Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui
JC
John Cruise
Nov 18, 2003
Hecate wrote:

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:58:45 GMT, wrote:

We currently shoot pics of all our product on a white, light table to make it easy to cut away the background and use the shots in printed catalogues.

Problem is that the light table is not so good any more… it’s getting a little scratched an dirty and we still have some issues with shadows when it comes to cutting the pictures out.

Is anyone doing anything smarter than all that? I’m thinking Star Wars and Blue Screen backgrounds that can be eliminated with the click of a button?

Many thanks.

Tino

Depends whether you need cast shadows or not., as you don’t say what your product is. But, a white light tent is always a good idea. Nice even light, shadowless and it’s easy to delete.



Hecate

veni, vidi, relinqui
Dont worry about background. Just make sure that lightling is good. Once pics are shot, use paths in PS to get the object cutout.
SM
Steve Moody
Nov 19, 2003
In article <CFrub.8658$>, John
Cruise wrote:

We currently shoot pics of all our product on a white, light table to make it easy to cut away the background and use the shots in printed catalogues.

Problem is that the light table is not so good any more… it’s getting a little scratched an dirty and we still have some issues with shadows when it comes to cutting the pictures out.

Is anyone doing anything smarter than all that? I’m thinking Star Wars and Blue Screen backgrounds that can be eliminated with the click of a button?

Paint that table blue. Buy two more tables. Paint one black, one red, one orange, one green, and one yellow.

Buy a copy of Corel Knockout.

If the product has no black, then shoot on the black table. Cut it out with Knockout. No blue – shoot it on the blue table. etc…

Photoshop does a pretty good job of cutting something out but Knockout is better – hands down.

Now – why not use a white background? Simple. When you use a flash any light the reflects back will be white. If that white reflection is on the edge of the foreground item that you are cutting out, then it will blend in with the white background. This will make it more difficult to cut it out correctly. This is especially true with hair. White light reflecting off strands of hair will cut out of a white background very poorly.

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