Just ask the how they like the 64 bit version of Photoshop. <g>
Bob
Platform is a non-issue…..maybe ten years ago,but, not now.
…and the visual style of a computer’s packaging, G5’s do look sexy though, bares no relation the kind of work being produced on it.
If he thinks you’re not up to the job because you’re on a PC – then he’s not too bright…..
Platform bias on a fully cross platform app like Photoshop is not snobbery. It is just ignorance. Ignorance is cured with education, not further snobbery by calling another snobbish or stupid. 🙂
Seriously, a look at the Mac Photoshop forum threads regarding color management for web display shows there is absolutely nothing to be ‘snobbish’ about.
Meh.
Signed,
Phos…. hard-core Maccer
🙂
How do you all deal with this snobbery?
I find that a sharp smack on the snoot with a rolled up newspaper will usually help teach all but the most ardent mac snobs in their place in the food chain. 😉
come here phos, i’ve got something for you… XD
The only problem with those people is they are in the main bloody snobs.
I have used (and taught) on both. I don’t have a problem with Macintoys it’s the users. Present company excepted of course! 😉
You can whack me all you want with that newspaper.
It won’t stop me from smirking about your having to manage anti-virus/anti-malware utilities.
XD
Still…meh.
It’s an old skirmish. It yawns me.
I’d rather argue about the real differences between Hamburgers w/cheese vs. Chee’boigahs.
Add a "Made wih a Mac" button at the end. Very eighties, but who cares?
bad phos. <whack!> bad! no! no! <whack><whack>
It won’t stop me from smirking about your having to manage anti-virus/anti-malware utilities
We manage anti-virus/anti-malware utilities?
Most of us haven’t touched ‘anti-virus/anti-malware utilities’ for years. It is typically an ignorant Mac user that thinks we need to manually check for viruses every day. I’m not bothered by the innumerable security updates that are pushed to both my Mac and Windows systems. It’s called automation. Mac-only users should become familiar with it. There are actually some vociferous folks on the Mac Photoshop forum that advise against automatic updates and would have you manually download and install full cumulative patches with each system update. lol
Big Bad Sheriff Levine’s gonna sniff this out and be around to whack the whole dang thread innaminnit!
I don’t automatically update ANYTHING.
It’s the very first thing I hunt down and turn off on any app I try out.
*I* manage my system, nobody else.
Adobe Apps are Adobe apps and they seem to work well on both platforms. Well except for all the people having trouble and there seem to be more Windows folk complaining these days. Many of my friends are PC based and I have absolutely no problems working with them. the guy is an idiot you can tell him I said that.
BTW if you don’t know by now I’m a Mac user.
I don’t automatically update ANYTHING.
exactly, how many folk get into trouble blindly running updates.
exactly, how many folk get into trouble blindly running updates.
As both a Mac and Windows user, count me as one without trouble.
Are you saying a Mac user gets into trouble by applying automatic updates? What an insult to Mac!
With all the security vulnerabilities with Quicktime, Adobe Reader/Acrobat, and Flash Player (allowing the greatest and easiest exploits for OSX), I cannot imagine how one manually applies updates without becoming paranoid about OSX security. Phos must be sporting a straight jacket at this point. 🙂
How do you all deal with this snobbery?
You lean back and wait for the moment when they cannot run decent 3D programs or cannot figure out how to send out a mail that doesn’t produce character soup on PC systems (which even Apple themselves can’t, considering how messy their online store invoices look), so you can mock them in return…
Well except for all the people having trouble and there seem to be more Windows folk complaining these days
Biased statistics. Lest we forget: Macs at best only have about 15% market share worldwide, the rest is split between IBM PCs and some more exotic types. Logically, a larger (potential) user base means more reported issues. This situation is simply furthered by a few other factors like greater hardware selection, but eh, I’d rather pick a "wrong" latest generation graphics card than be stuck with some old overpriced **** because the sole and exclusive hardware vendor has a rather restrictive and slow development policy. Likewise, you could quote similar examples for that false sense of exclusiveness and security. Anyhow, it’s a moot point. Macs are nice, but there’s nothing wrong with a well-configured PC. Both platforms have their shortcomings and strengths, just in different areas, so a direct comparison usually ends up going nowhere. Everything else is just fanboy-ism of a sort with no rationale behind it…
Mylenium
Apart from any details on specific problems, it almost always boils down to whether the user is attentive, pro-active about maintenance, and is generally well-educated about paying attention to the tech info resources available to all of us online.
Anybody, on any platform, can quickly find themselves buried under a steaming dung heap if they treat their computers like a fool-proof electric waffle maker.
You want snobbery?
Let’s make that platform-agnostic as well:
Dullards get what they deserve.
XD
there seem to be more Windows folk complaining these days
I often wonder what sort of "non-work" software some Windows users have messing with their video settings and registry keys. Apart from being many more Windows machines out there, there are more gamers on Windows and also more dilettantes who are just giving Photoshop a go.
How do you all deal with this snobbery?
I ignore it. Mac Fiends and PC Fanatics both.
Platform is a non-issue…..maybe ten years ago,but, not now.
I was saying that 10 years ago.
paying attention to the tech info resources available to all of us online
Phos,
So you start by pointing out the alleged issue of Windows users "having to manage anti-virus/anti-malware utilities" but now you are saying we all have to spend time being diligent about system maintenance/updates? I think you have finally gotten my point. 🙂 There is no difference. Anti-virus software is a red herring in platform comparisons.
if they treat their computers like a fool-proof electric waffle maker.
An excellent point Phos. So what updates have you and Buko decided not to install in the past 5 years? I’m guessing you have a fully patched system, just like mine.
Jim…
I saa-aiid, "MEH!" way back in my first reply to this dumbass thread!
My point is that almost always, problems are a direct result of the PEBKAC. As users who depend on a computer to work nearly 100% of the time, we all either pay attention or pay with unnecessary lost time.
When it comes to updates, I ALWAYS wait for awhile, and read on my usual herd of tech forums about any possible "gotchas" and the fixes or caveats needed to maintain a properly running system. When the smooth update path has been fully sussed, then I go for it.
<Buko>"Works for me!"</Buko>
I have little sympathy and little love for peopleespecially people who have been dealing with their own computers for a few yearswho have no sense of logic about how they use them, and then bawl like banshees because their system gets FKD after they load all kinds of crap, willy-nilly, with no thought about how it might affect the apps and processes they depend on.
I’ll help them try to fix stuff, but I’ll be smirking up my sleeve and rolling my eyes the whole time. Good thing I don’t have a web cam hooked up, but sometimes the way I write is a dead giveaway of my attitude.
😉 XD
but sometimes the way I write is a dead giveaway of my attitude.
You LIE! Your sarcasm/disbelief/wonder/annoyance/mental exhaustion/etc., is too well disguised in your writing style that I have never seen it. EVAH!
Yeah, well…. you use a Mac. So… THERE!
😛
Also, as Anais Nin wrote: "We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are."
Oh, and by the way:
"Anti-virus software is a red herring in platform comparisons."
No it isn’t. Not by a long shot, particularly when you factor in the gigantic multitudes of less-than-savvy consumers of Windows systems who aren’t as tech aware as maybe they should be. Perceptions of the threats, and of the mitigation thereof can be manipulated by cherry-picking statistical analyses, but you can NOT with a straight face tell me that having to be responsibly aware of malware, dedicating cycles to running AV/malware utilities on a Windows-based system doesn’t exact a toll that, so far, users of Macs have barely had to even lift an eyebrow about.
Maybe someday, but so far (except for that minor AutoStart worm in OS 9.x, back in what, 1999?). THAT was a big yawner.
but you can NOT with a straight face
Sure I can. Modern A/V is about as difficult as keeping the screen door closed to keep the flys out in summer. If you can’t handle that, you’ve got other problems, entirely.
widespread malware storm
Brought to you by the same people who insisted that all Windows computers were going to commit suicide, or blow up, or something when they hit 1/1/2000. 99.95+% of reports of "widespread malware storms" are about as accurate as the weather reports forcasting 6 – 10 inches of snow
and you get *maybe* half an inch.
Incidentally, I run both Win & Mac all day every day. In more than 15 years of doing this, no virii, no malware, no problems in that regard.
Sorry to disappoint.
But, OldBob…you, and many of the people we deal with here are far more tech-savvy than an average home user. And there are WAY more casual waffle-maker users than there are people like us. Orders of magnitudes more.
THOSE are the people for whom malware is DEFINTELY an issue, who are easily infiltratedeither because of their lack of tech-savvy, or because they may fall prey to the malicious social engineering which will open them to the malware hostilities. Their level of computer illiteracy folds out to cause problems among the rest of the teeming masses.
People who are smart enough or wise enough to know to get their security issues in order manage to skim along pretty well unscathed. But STILL, if you’re on a Windows system, and you’re well buttoned down, you have to dedicate certain energies to making sure things continue to run well. Even if you have the latest auto-updates for AV/malware mitigation utlilities, you have to be sure you’re aware of zero-day exploits if only to make sure you don’t become part of the problem.
Again, like I said, maybe someday MAccers will have the same worries. But so far…NOPE.
If and when Macs are busted wide open, It WILL be front page news, and a lead news story, world wide. But so far? Meh.
It’s not completely unwarranted that some Maccers are snobbish about their experience. But that they express it in an egotistical way is nothing more than emotional immaturity. Or, maybe some people just find the whole debate stimulating. I don’t, really.
There is an emotional side to the debate, and there is a factual side to the debate.
I prefer to examine the subject on an objective basisif I choose to examine it at all.
First off, thanks for the compliment: XD
But, OldBob…you, and many of the people we deal with here are far more tech-savvy than an average home user.
And, yes, no argument that the threats for Mac just don’t exist as yet. My point is that A/V has advanced to the point that it is now DESIGNED for worm-brains. I know, I have to teach them. But, yes, also, there ARE those who can never be taughtand shouldn’t be allowed out off a leash.
I’m not saying it isn’t a problem. But, it is nowhere as big a deal as it used to be even five years ago. And nowhere near as much as most who use Mac exclusively, or nearly so, seem to believe.
General computing knowledge/experience is in question if all he is worried about is viruses/malware. Lord help the ignorant boob that thinks his platform is immune from security issues because he has only one attack vector protected. Phos needs to pick up a paper. He’s missed plenty of news. OSX has been compromised several times without the need for malware, viruses, or clueless user assistance. I guess he missed reviewing all those security updates Apple has issued. That’s why I advocate auto updates.
Well count me in for having faced Mac SNOBBERY. Once I got away from the PC DOS based version into NT, starting with 3.52, I didn’t have a virus problem because it was too difficult for the script kiddies to hack with.
When I went to NT4 with dual PIII 450s, I could take any Mac to task and it has only gotten better for me as far as performance. In matter of fact, the number of times I ran across a totally skanked Mac was because the operator always assumed that ‘MajicMac’ was taking care of everything.
When Win2K was released with stable colour management, I was truly in heaven, it was the last bastion to be surmounted for truly professional work.
As far as ‘worms’, since Vista is totally NT, I haven’t read of one since it was released. Trust me, it won’t take long for the script kiddies to start working the public UNIX code to create a virus that will only affect Mac OSX.
Anais Nin wrote: "We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are."
I would tend to disagree with that somewhat. We see things as we want to see them which is not necessarily how we are; we lie to ourselves about that, too.
If and when Macs are busted wide open, It WILL be front page news, and a lead news story, world wide. But so far? Meh.
That’s because of the relatively much smaller number of Macs vs PC users out there. Why fish in a pond when the big game is in the ocean?
Besides, the baddies out there are going after the other Apple products: i-anything else. Same reason applies there, too – numbers.
Boils down to what do you want to use and what do you want to deal with.
Yeah, whatevs.
But tell me…where are the self-replicating, ongoing, widespread, malware distributing, info gathering, badass botnets that target and exploit Macs?
Huh?
WHERE ARE THEY?
Link me to these news clippings I must have missed.
And trotting out the old Well, Macs are such a small minority that no malware author would bother. That’s BS and you all know it.
If I were an egotistical, criminally-minded malware author, I can’t think of a bigger feather to stick in my cap than to be the person who created that self-replicating, ongoing, widespread, malware distributing, info gathering, badass malware botnet that targets and exploit Macs?
I’d be bloody famous.
Hell, I might even be inspired to create a Wikipedia page about myself and my most excellent adventures!
XD
Phos, google ‘PWN 2 OWN’, open eyes, hang head in shame, realize none of us are safe…
Link me to these news clippings I must have missed.
Can’t. Reason: don’t troll the internet looking for problems on computer platforms I don’t use.
I can’t think of a bigger feather to stick in my cap…
I suppose, but you’d have a small and brief audience. "Dude, you cracked the minority platform? Cool. I cracked 2 billion computers this morning."
Phos, google ‘PWN 2 OWN’
There you go. But then again, the Air is really just a large overpriced accessory.
And Apple pretty much brought that one themselves what with the arrogant boasting that they weren’t targeted by virus makers/hackers. Just painted a big ol’ target on its forehead.
I don’t suppose I can convince you take this to lounge, can I?
Sheriff Levine
Well, it’s all pretty much on-topic. The post itself could be moved there, though.
There’s nothing to be said that hasn’t been said already. Let it die.
bad. bad moderator! <whack!> 🙂
I don’t suppose I can convince you take this to lounge, can I?
Be my guest.