Photoshop recommendations

NJ
Posted By
Neil Jones
Dec 24, 2008
Views
5528
Replies
147
Status
Closed
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

MacBook Pro 16” Mockups 🔥

– in 4 materials (clay versions included)

– 12 scenes

– 48 MacBook Pro 16″ mockups

– 6000 x 4500 px

AH
Always Has An Opinion
Dec 24, 2008
Go cheap. Photoshop CS2 (if you can find it) or CS3 will be sufficient. There’s a ton of plugins which make things easier, but I’ve never needed them. I’ve retouched photos, created 3D art and much more with just the basic package.

You can find a lot of tutorials on YouTube as well.
W
wannabesomeonecares
Dec 24, 2008
"Neil Jones" wrote in
message
PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

A "plugin" is separate piece of software which has the ability to attach itself to the target software, in this case Photoshop, which will then appear as an additional menu selection in Photoshop to perform a task. You can invoke the "plugin" software directly from the menu of Photoshop.

More detail here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plugin

Some of the plugins are free. Some are not.

Regards,

Wannabe
=======
NJ
Neil Jones
Dec 24, 2008
Always Has An Opinion wrote:
Go cheap. Photoshop CS2 (if you can find it) or CS3 will be sufficient. There’s a ton of plugins which make things easier, but I’ve never needed them. I’ve retouched photos, created 3D art and much more with just the basic package.

You can find a lot of tutorials on YouTube as well.

Great idea! I went to Amazon and looked up for CS3 but found that it costs as much as CS4 (even in the used section). They were listed at $649 (USD). Some of the craigslist sellers listed it for $100 to $150. I don’t know if these are bootlegged packed with trojans in them. I am suspicious because of the price difference between the new version and used version.

What are some good sources to buy cheap/used software like CS3?

Thank you once again.

NJ
S
Spider
Dec 24, 2008
Neil Jones wrote:
Always Has An Opinion wrote:
Go cheap. Photoshop CS2 (if you can find it) or CS3 will be sufficient. There’s a ton of plugins which make things easier, but I’ve never needed them. I’ve retouched photos, created 3D art and much more with just the basic package.

You can find a lot of tutorials on YouTube as well.

Great idea! I went to Amazon and looked up for CS3 but found that it costs as much as CS4 (even in the used section). They were listed at $649 (USD). Some of the craigslist sellers listed it for $100 to $150. I don’t know if these are bootlegged packed with trojans in them. I am suspicious because of the price difference between the new version and used version.

What are some good sources to buy cheap/used software like CS3?
Thank you once again.

NJ
Howabout Photoshop Elements 7 unless you want/need the full-blown PS CSx?

<mind the rap on the earl>

http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-65026616-Photoshop-Elements-7/dp /B001DMBWXS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1 230128042&sr=8-1
S
Spider
Dec 24, 2008
harikeo wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:
Always Has An Opinion wrote:
Go cheap. Photoshop CS2 (if you can find it) or CS3 will be sufficient. There’s a ton of plugins which make things easier, but I’ve never needed them. I’ve retouched photos, created 3D art and much more with just the basic package.

You can find a lot of tutorials on YouTube as well.

Great idea! I went to Amazon and looked up for CS3 but found that it costs as much as CS4 (even in the used section). They were listed at $649 (USD). Some of the craigslist sellers listed it for $100 to $150. I don’t know if these are bootlegged packed with trojans in them. I am suspicious because of the price difference between the new version and used version.

What are some good sources to buy cheap/used software like CS3?
Thank you once again.

NJ
Howabout Photoshop Elements 7 unless you want/need the full-blown PS CSx?
<mind the rap on the earl>

http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-65026616-Photoshop-Elements-7/dp /B001DMBWXS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1 230128042&sr=8-1

I forgot to mention Gimp 2 which is free http://www.gimp.org/
TC
tony cooper
Dec 24, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:00:43 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

No one can really tell you what is best for you because we don’t know your skill levels or how much time and effort you will put into learning a new program.

However, based on what you’ve said above, I would recommend that you use Adobe’s Elements and not the full version of Photoshop. Elements
7.0 is $140 retail, but you can purchase Elements 5.0 or 6.0 for half
of that or less.

Elements will do almost everything that the full CS Photoshop version will do. The difference between "everything" and "almost everything" is in the use of some features that it takes a year or more of experience to learn to use. I’ve been using the full version for several years, and there are *still* features that I’m not proficient in.

I also have Elements 5.0. For most editing of family photographs, I use Elements instead of the full Photoshop. I switch over to the full version when I have a real problem photograph or want to do something extra creative.

You can download a free trial of Elements 7.0 at
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopelwin/

This might not be of interest, but you can buy a Wacom Bamboo Fun pen tablet for $80/$90 on Amazon, and this *includes* Elements 5.0 plus Nic Color EFX (great filters!) and Corel Painter Essentials. Each individual program alone is worth the money, and you get all three.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
NJ
Neil Jones
Dec 24, 2008
harikeo wrote:
harikeo wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:
Always Has An Opinion wrote:
Go cheap. Photoshop CS2 (if you can find it) or CS3 will be sufficient. There’s a ton of plugins which make things easier, but I’ve never needed them. I’ve retouched photos, created 3D art and much more with just the basic package.

You can find a lot of tutorials on YouTube as well.

Great idea! I went to Amazon and looked up for CS3 but found that it costs as much as CS4 (even in the used section). They were listed at $649 (USD). Some of the craigslist sellers listed it for $100 to $150. I don’t know if these are bootlegged packed with trojans in them. I am suspicious because of the price difference between the new version and used version.

What are some good sources to buy cheap/used software like CS3?
Thank you once again.

NJ
Howabout Photoshop Elements 7 unless you want/need the full-blown PS CSx?
<mind the rap on the earl>

http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-65026616-Photoshop-Elements-7/dp /B001DMBWXS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1 230128042&sr=8-1

I forgot to mention Gimp 2 which is free http://www.gimp.org/

I do have GIMP 2 but haven’t done much with it. Photoshop seems to be have a big following and easier to get some help.

NJ

PS – My digital camera also comes with some software which most people (including myself) haven’t heard of before. The software seems to be ok but difficult to get any help.
R
ray
Dec 24, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:00:43 -0500, Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Suggest you try GIMP first – it’s free. It will probably do everything you need. There are several online tutorials.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

plugins are basically code that folks have written to do additional things inside the main program – added functionality.
R
richgr
Dec 24, 2008
In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
Neil Jones wrote:
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

I would suggest getting Irfanview, which is shareware and will do many of the things that photoshop will do. Then when you see what you need and if Irfanview can’t do it, then start looking at photoshop again.

www.irfanview.com

If you do get it, please pay the shareware fee, its well worth it. 10 euros is suggested. Thats 15-20 US$.


Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353 Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM’er since CP-67 Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 24, 2008
Neil Jones wrote:
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

Hey Neil, lots of good suggestions here, but something I haven’t seen mentioned yet, is that you should be able to download free demos of most of this commercial software, and see what suits your needs.

From Adobe, there’s Photoshop (for the hardcore), Elements (Photoshop-Lite), and Lightroom (different workflow, might suit you better). AFAIK there are free time-limited demos of all of them.

From Corel (bought PSP from JASC a couple versions ago), there’s Paint Shop Pro (latest version is 12, aka Paint Shop Pro Photo X2 – time-limited demo downloadable), or if you dig around, you can find a freebie version of JASC Paint Shop Pro 7.

There’s tons of freeware/open-source/shareware out there that will probably also do most of what you need – take a look at IrfanView, Picasa, the latest GIMP, Paint.NET, or Pixel32.

Long and short of it is, there’s no reason to shell out money for a solution without trying a bunch of different ones first and seeing what suits you best. Don’t worry about what’s "most popular" – there’s lots of users and lots of support out there for all the different options. A lot of Photoshop’s "popularity" is people who, like you, simply think Photoshop is the way to go because that’s all they’ve ever heard – they won’t be a lot of help to you 🙂
JW
JR Weiss
Dec 24, 2008
"Neil Jones" wrote…
I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Start with Photoshop Elements for $100 or less. Once you get used to what it can do, then decide whether you want or need all the power of the full application.
JN
John Navas
Dec 24, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:00:43 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote in
<eoq4l.1243$>:

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Photoshop Elements 6 for only $28:
< http://www.pricegrabber.com/user_sales_getprod.php?masterid= 50072739&lot_id=8567417>


Best regards,
John
Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others
AS
Axel Siebenwirth
Dec 24, 2008
In article <eoq4l.1243$>, Neil Jones
wrote:

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

i would suggest photoshop elements for around $100. it’s unlikely you need the full version of photoshop.

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

third party add-ons that add features to photoshop (or to other apps). some are free, some aren’t.
CJ
Clair Johnston
Dec 24, 2008
Neil Jones wrote:
harikeo wrote:
harikeo wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:
Always Has An Opinion wrote:
Go cheap. Photoshop CS2 (if you can find it) or CS3 will be sufficient. There’s a ton of plugins which make things easier, but I’ve never needed them. I’ve retouched photos, created 3D art and much more with just the basic package.

You can find a lot of tutorials on YouTube as well.

Great idea! I went to Amazon and looked up for CS3 but found that it costs as much as CS4 (even in the used section). They were listed at $649 (USD). Some of the craigslist sellers listed it for $100 to $150. I don’t know if these are bootlegged packed with trojans in them. I am suspicious because of the price difference between the new version and used version.

What are some good sources to buy cheap/used software like CS3?
Thank you once again.

NJ
Howabout Photoshop Elements 7 unless you want/need the full-blown PS CSx?
<mind the rap on the earl>

http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-65026616-Photoshop-Elements-7/dp /B001DMBWXS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1 230128042&sr=8-1
I forgot to mention Gimp 2 which is free http://www.gimp.org/

I do have GIMP 2 but haven’t done much with it. Photoshop seems to be have a big following and easier to get some help.

NJ

PS – My digital camera also comes with some software which most people (including myself) haven’t heard of before. The software seems to be ok but difficult to get any help.
Big following does not necessarily equate to being the right software package for you. Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice. Some other Free, donation supported, or open source packages are: Faststone viewer: http://www.faststone.org/FSViewerDetail.htm combines viewing and simple editing functions. Better functionality than irfanview http://www.irfanview.com/ for most things. Both should be part of your toolkit.
If you shoot RAW, consider Raw Therapee
http://www.rawtherapee.com/?mitem=2 This is a relative new donationware package that is under heavy development. The latest beta release is very stable and very competitive with commercial packages.

The above packages are FREE, but that should not be equated with low quality. Even though they are FREE, if you find them useful, please consider making a donation to help the developers.

Clair
JN
John Navas
Dec 24, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:52:48 -0500, Clair Johnston
wrote in
<Wmw4l.12014$>:

… Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.

The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is quite powerful and free, I’ll think you’ll find the interface in Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30. (See link in my earlier post.)


Best regards,
John
Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 24, 2008
John Navas wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:52:48 -0500, Clair Johnston
wrote in
<Wmw4l.12014$>:

… Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.

The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is quite powerful and free, I’ll think you’ll find the interface in Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30. (See link in my earlier post.)

Similarly, I find the Photoshop interface rather unintuitive, at least compared to Paintshop Pro. That’s why it’s nice that there’s options out there… and also why all these packages offer FREE DEMO VERSIONS so you can try them out before dropping your money on them.

As with choosing a camera, the package that’s best FOR YOU is the one that you’re going to use… and that will be the one you’re most comfortable with.

Take all the suggestions here with a grain of salt… then give them all a test drive and see which YOU prefer.
SB
Stephen Bishop
Dec 24, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 09:25:15 -0500, tony cooper
wrote:

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:00:43 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

No one can really tell you what is best for you because we don’t know your skill levels or how much time and effort you will put into learning a new program.

However, based on what you’ve said above, I would recommend that you use Adobe’s Elements and not the full version of Photoshop. Elements
7.0 is $140 retail, but you can purchase Elements 5.0 or 6.0 for half
of that or less.

Elements will do almost everything that the full CS Photoshop version will do. The difference between "everything" and "almost everything" is in the use of some features that it takes a year or more of experience to learn to use. I’ve been using the full version for several years, and there are *still* features that I’m not proficient in.

I also have Elements 5.0. For most editing of family photographs, I use Elements instead of the full Photoshop. I switch over to the full version when I have a real problem photograph or want to do something extra creative.

You can download a free trial of Elements 7.0 at
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopelwin/

This might not be of interest, but you can buy a Wacom Bamboo Fun pen tablet for $80/$90 on Amazon, and this *includes* Elements 5.0 plus Nic Color EFX (great filters!) and Corel Painter Essentials. Each individual program alone is worth the money, and you get all three.

I’ll strongly second the recommendation for Elements. It is a very nice program on its own, not just a "limited" version of Photoshop. But it it looks and feels like Photoshop. If you find you want or need the extra features that the full Photoshop offers, you can always spend the few hundred extra dollars at that time.
S
Savageduck
Dec 24, 2008
On 2008-12-24 05:00:43 -0800, Neil Jones
said:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

I would get Photoshop Elements which should give you 95% of what you would need as a learning novice.
Then there is an upgrade path from Elements to CS4.
You might also find a legitimate version of CS2 or CS3 at a reasonable price online, and there is an upgrade path from both of those.

Plugins from third party software providers, add advanced editing and photo-manipulating features which can be produced with CS2-4 with knowlege and experience.
Some of these can be expensive, however a search will lead you to some free-bee actions and such.

http://www.digitalfilmtools.com/photshopprods.htm
http://www.digitalanarchy.com/
http://www.pixelgenius.com/
http://www.completedigitalphotography.com/index.php?p=339
JN
John Navas
Dec 24, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 13:08:11 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <giu8c1$g01$>:

John Navas wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:52:48 -0500, Clair Johnston
wrote in
<Wmw4l.12014$>:

… Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.

The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is quite powerful and free, I’ll think you’ll find the interface in Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30. (See link in my earlier post.)

Similarly, I find the Photoshop interface rather unintuitive, at least compared to Paintshop Pro.

I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?

That’s why it’s nice that there’s options
out there… and also why all these packages offer FREE DEMO VERSIONS so you can try them out before dropping your money on them.
As with choosing a camera, the package that’s best FOR YOU is the one that you’re going to use… and that will be the one you’re most comfortable with.

Take all the suggestions here with a grain of salt… then give them all a test drive and see which YOU prefer.

Of course.


Best regards,
John
Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others
MT
Marco Tedaldi
Dec 24, 2008
Good morning everyone…

As a Linux/Gimp-User I can’t stand back here…

Matt Ion schrieb:
John Navas wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:52:48 -0500, Clair Johnston
… Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.
I know that Photoshop has tools and possibilities that Gimp does not have… but in my daily work with gimp I dod not realize that i’m missing a lot…

The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is quite powerful and free, I’ll think you’ll find the interface in Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30. (See link in my earlier post.)
Can’t argue that since I don’t know Photoshop Elements…

Similarly, I find the Photoshop interface rather unintuitive, at least compared to Paintshop Pro.

fun… I sometimes have to work with PSP. And I have to say: I just can’t work with this stuff. It’s unintuitive in a way for me that I just can’t work with it! Maybe my intuitivity is crippled by using The Gimp too much 🙂
Maybe it is, that many people are refering to older versions of The Gimp which has made huge steps forward in usability since the last few versions…

That’s why it’s nice that there’s options
out there… and also why all these packages offer FREE DEMO VERSIONS so you can try them out before dropping your money on them.
Right. And really try all possibilities. Just because you struggle with the first one you try, it does not mean that the others are better. Photo-Editing is a bit of a pain in the beginning with every software I think.

As with choosing a camera, the package that’s best FOR YOU is the one that you’re going to use… and that will be the one you’re most comfortable with.
I can only agree on that. Finally some wise words in a NG. Thanx!

Take all the suggestions here with a grain of salt… then give them all a test drive and see which YOU prefer.

And most important: Enjoy your pictures! Do not beat the fun down with technobabble.

kruemi


Dimage A2, Agfa isolette
http://flickr.com/photos/kruemi
And a cool timekiller: http://www.starpirates.net/register.php?referer=9708
JM
John McWilliams
Dec 24, 2008
Stephen Bishop wrote:

I’ll strongly second the recommendation for Elements. It is a very nice program on its own, not just a "limited" version of Photoshop. But it it looks and feels like Photoshop. If you find you want or need the extra features that the full Photoshop offers, you can always spend the few hundred extra dollars at that time.

Moreover, if you’re familiar with Elements, you’ll have a headstart when, if, and as you move up to Photoshop. It is also [- both of them; they are – ] cross platform, which is one reason to recommend against Paintshop Pro and Apple’s aperture.

Thus, when if and as you move to a better OS, you’ll be up on the learning curve there.


john mcwilliams
DC
Dave Cohen
Dec 24, 2008
Neil Jones wrote:
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

PS is a very expensive product with a steep learning curve. It’s the standard for professionals, particularly if final output is for professional publication.

I’ve never used elements but understand it’s all the normal amateur would need. I’ve used PhotoPlus and now use PSP9. The latter is almost given away if you can find it. Later versions are distributed by Corel. All the above are really adequate. You can get lots of free stuff, but at some time or other you’ll discover layers and for that you will need something a little better than a freebie, which is not to knock the latter. FastStone is great for quick fix ups and cropping.

One last point, there is a free and quite powerful product known at The Gimp. Some people seem to love it, I don’t. You would need to download a copy and see for yourself.
Dave Cohen
LL
Leo Lichtman
Dec 25, 2008
I started with Photoshop Elements 4, and I was fortunate that just at the right time, a retired UC professor in my area offered weekly lessons on it in his home. I want to emphacize this: using a program that is popular has its advantages. You can find people to talk to, ask questions and compare experiences with, like I did. We still meet in this professor’s home and discuss our work, even though the instructional part is over. Being with others who share the same background and experience is very rewarding; you never stop learning.
S
Savageduck
Dec 25, 2008
On 2008-12-24 16:52:21 -0800, "Leo Lichtman" said:

I started with Photoshop Elements 4, and I was fortunate that just at the right time, a retired UC professor in my area offered weekly lessons on it in his home. I want to emphacize this: using a program that is popular has its advantages. You can find people to talk to, ask questions and compare experiences with, like I did. We still meet in this professor’s home and discuss our work, even though the instructional part is over. Being with others who share the same background and experience is very rewarding; you never stop learning.

There is also comp.graphics.apps.photoshop if you like NG forums as information sources.
DC
Dave Cohen
Dec 25, 2008
Leo Lichtman wrote:
I started with Photoshop Elements 4, and I was fortunate that just at the right time, a retired UC professor in my area offered weekly lessons on it in his home. I want to emphacize this: using a program that is popular has its advantages. You can find people to talk to, ask questions and compare experiences with, like I did. We still meet in this professor’s home and discuss our work, even though the instructional part is over. Being with others who share the same background and experience is very rewarding; you never stop learning.
I agree. I use PSP9 because I got it for around $12, but not only your experience is relevant, anytime I see a ‘how to do it’ type article in Photo magazines, it invariably illustrates using PS, but my understanding is this is more easily translated into Elements than other, although most of the time I can translate into PSP. Earlier on someone included a link for Elements 6 for $28, which is very tempting. The point I would emphasize is one shouldn’t jump into the full version of PS until he knows that is really what he needs (unless money is no object).
My local library has a whole slew of books on PS and a reasonable selection on elements. Not much on PSP
Dave Cohen
TC
tony cooper
Dec 25, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:54:22 -0500, Dave Cohen
wrote:

Leo Lichtman wrote:
I started with Photoshop Elements 4, and I was fortunate that just at the right time, a retired UC professor in my area offered weekly lessons on it in his home. I want to emphacize this: using a program that is popular has its advantages. You can find people to talk to, ask questions and compare experiences with, like I did. We still meet in this professor’s home and discuss our work, even though the instructional part is over. Being with others who share the same background and experience is very rewarding; you never stop learning.
I agree. I use PSP9 because I got it for around $12, but not only your experience is relevant, anytime I see a ‘how to do it’ type article in Photo magazines, it invariably illustrates using PS, but my understanding is this is more easily translated into Elements than other, although most of the time I can translate into PSP. Earlier on someone included a link for Elements 6 for $28, which is very tempting. The point I would emphasize is one shouldn’t jump into the full version of PS until he knows that is really what he needs (unless money is no object).
My local library has a whole slew of books on PS and a reasonable selection on elements. Not much on PSP
Dave Cohen

It’s appropriate to go back to the initial post. The OP takes photographs, but has not been editing them. He’s looking for a program to take his first steps in editing photographs.

I recommended Elements as a good first step. Elements, at this level, is easy-peasy. The "Quick Edit" module shows the original and the results of any editing side by side. He can crop in this mode, click the button for "Smart Fix" or "Auto Levels" and make just about any decent photograph look more than presentable. A bit too dark on the faces? Move the "Lighten Shadows" a bit to the right. The auto Red Eye fix usually works. For 90% of the average photographer’s output, this works a treat.

There’s some additional bells and whistles for anyone who wants to follow one of the many online tutorials. Elements does Adjustment Layers and creates Selections. It has most of the basic tools for editing. The Spot Healing brush is easier to use than the Clone Stamp.

Anyone who tries Elements can be successfully editing the average photograph right away. No learning curve to speak of.

You can put that OP in the full Photoshop or Gimp, but the learning curve is steeper. He can do more eventually, but there’s no indication that he’s ready to do so or interested in doing so.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
TC
tony cooper
Dec 25, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 23:36:58 -0500, tony cooper
wrote:

It’s appropriate to go back to the initial post. The OP takes photographs, but has not been editing them. He’s looking for a program to take his first steps in editing photographs.
I see the same type of threads in the photography newsgroups. Some guy comes in and wants a recommendation for a good camera because his first grandchild was born and he wants to take photographs.

The thread then takes off into gearhead discussions on the attributes of various cameras and the P&S vs dslr wars. Truth is, the new grampa can buy the camera nearest the door and it will work for him as well as the best camera in the store. All the guy’s gonna do is point the camera at the baby and push the button.

You really have to gear the discussion to the wants and needs of the poster or you’ll just add to the confusion that brought him to the newsgroup in the first place.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
LL
Leo Lichtman
Dec 25, 2008
"tony cooper" wrote: (clip)You really have to gear the discussion to the wants and needs of the
poster or you’ll just add to the confusion that brought him to the newsgroup in the first place.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This sentence could well be cross-posted to a great many other newsgroups. Well thought and well said.
BW
Bob Williams
Dec 25, 2008
Neil Jones wrote:
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

Full Photoshop is a PROFESSIONAL program.
Although it is extremely powerful and versatile, it is NOT easy to learn on your own.
Adode assumes that if you put out major bucks for the CS versions, you are a working professional or serious amateur and you already know your way around the program.
OTOH, PS Elements is an entry level program for persons like yourself who are new to digital imaging. Entry level does not mean dumbed down. PS Elements is extremely powerful and can do almost everything that a newbie would want to do with full PS. But unlike full PS, Elements volunteers a lot of help as you work thru the editing process. Even so, using the tools in any photo editing program is not intuitive. IMHO, you will need a well written book or manual to help you learn what the various editing tools do and how to use them.
I suggest that you buy PS Elements 7 and STRONGLY encourage to purchase a self-help book to go along with it. Over the years I have used a number of self-help books on using PS and I can recommend the "Teach Yourself Visually" series as well as the "Classroom in a Book" series by the Adobe Staff.
Amazon carries both oh these series. For a rank beginner, I would start with Teach Yourself……" and graduate to "Classroom…….." At Amazon.com, See:
http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Yourself-VISUALLY-Photoshop-Elem ents/dp/0470396687/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12 30189028&sr=1-4

Bob Williams
SB
Stephen Bishop
Dec 25, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:26:31 -0800, John McWilliams
wrote:

Stephen Bishop wrote:

I’ll strongly second the recommendation for Elements. It is a very nice program on its own, not just a "limited" version of Photoshop. But it it looks and feels like Photoshop. If you find you want or need the extra features that the full Photoshop offers, you can always spend the few hundred extra dollars at that time.

Moreover, if you’re familiar with Elements, you’ll have a headstart when, if, and as you move up to Photoshop. It is also [- both of them; they are – ] cross platform, which is one reason to recommend against Paintshop Pro and Apple’s aperture.

Thus, when if and as you move to a better OS, you’ll be up on the learning curve there.’

You mean when you move from Apple to Windows?

LOL

Merry Christmas, John!
NJ
Neil Jones
Dec 25, 2008
Leo Lichtman wrote:
I started with Photoshop Elements 4, and I was fortunate that just at the right time, a retired UC professor in my area offered weekly lessons on it in his home. I want to emphacize this: using a program that is popular has its advantages. You can find people to talk to, ask questions and compare experiences with, like I did. We still meet in this professor’s home and discuss our work, even though the instructional part is over. Being with others who share the same background and experience is very rewarding; you never stop learning.

You hit the main point that had me post this question! I do have GIMP on my system and have used it minimally over the years (only for cropping). Now I want to do a little bit more than cropping the pictures. I know GIMP can do what Adobe PS or Elements is doing. BUT, the support groups/books/classes offered for GIMP are minimal compared to Adobe Photoshop. Yes, the tutorials for GIMP at one or two main websites do not motivate me to do anything creative/enchanements to my pictures. The users on GIMP mailing list/newsgroup either have never been tried what I am trying to accomplish with my photo editing or have the attitude "Go figure it out yourself". Last but least, I am willing to take a class which will teach me how to process pictures. So far that I know, I have not seen anything for GIMP. Photoshop does have quite a few classes. With Photoshop, my main confusion was about the products at their website (Which one do I need?).

The other software packages, even the ones that came along with my camera really don’t interest me in trying to be creative with my pictures.

I think I will consider getting Photoshop Elements (in the next few weeks) and consider taking a class.

Now, like Leo, I will need to find a university professor or some professional who offers classes locally for Photoshop.

NJ
DC
Dave Cohen
Dec 25, 2008
Bob Williams wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

Full Photoshop is a PROFESSIONAL program.
Although it is extremely powerful and versatile, it is NOT easy to learn on your own.
Adode assumes that if you put out major bucks for the CS versions, you are a working professional or serious amateur and you already know your way around the program.
OTOH, PS Elements is an entry level program for persons like yourself who are new to digital imaging. Entry level does not mean dumbed down. PS Elements is extremely powerful and can do almost everything that a newbie would want to do with full PS. But unlike full PS, Elements volunteers a lot of help as you work thru the editing process. Even so, using the tools in any photo editing program is not intuitive. IMHO, you will need a well written book or manual to help you learn what the various editing tools do and how to use them.
I suggest that you buy PS Elements 7 and STRONGLY encourage to purchase a self-help book to go along with it. Over the years I have used a number of self-help books on using PS and I can recommend the "Teach Yourself Visually" series as well as the "Classroom in a Book" series by the Adobe Staff.
Amazon carries both oh these series. For a rank beginner, I would start with Teach Yourself……" and graduate to "Classroom…….." At Amazon.com, See:
http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Yourself-VISUALLY-Photoshop-Elem ents/dp/0470396687/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12 30189028&sr=1-4

Bob Williams

I just took advantage of that $12 for Elements 6 from Price Grabber, so I’ll be able to get a good feel for how it compares to my current PSP 9. All packages do red eye in one way or another, but PSP 9 does it in style, you get to choices on what to replace with, and for animal lovers is has an animal selection which is nice. They get same problem but color is usually other than red.
Now at least I should be able to get a decent book or two that relates to what I’m using without having to translate (although much of the time that does work).
For $12 the op could play with that at low risk. I looked at some reviews and there doesn’t appear to be much lost in 6 from version 7. Dave Cohen
JM
John McWilliams
Dec 25, 2008
Stephen Bishop wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:26:31 -0800, John McWilliams
wrote:

Stephen Bishop wrote:

I’ll strongly second the recommendation for Elements. It is a very nice program on its own, not just a "limited" version of Photoshop. But it it looks and feels like Photoshop. If you find you want or need the extra features that the full Photoshop offers, you can always spend the few hundred extra dollars at that time.
Moreover, if you’re familiar with Elements, you’ll have a headstart when, if, and as you move up to Photoshop. It is also [- both of them; they are – ] cross platform, which is one reason to recommend against Paintshop Pro and Apple’s aperture.

Thus, when if and as you move to a better OS, you’ll be up on the learning curve there.’

You mean when you move from Apple to Windows?

That’s one possibility!*
LOL

Good!

Merry Christmas, John!

And same to you, and all.

John

*Probably would be from a ten year old Mac to a new PC, or from a new PC to a two year old Mac, but I purposely left it quite open….. 🙂
TC
tony cooper
Dec 25, 2008
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:40:21 -0500, Dave Cohen
wrote:

Bob Williams wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

Full Photoshop is a PROFESSIONAL program.
Although it is extremely powerful and versatile, it is NOT easy to learn on your own.
Adode assumes that if you put out major bucks for the CS versions, you are a working professional or serious amateur and you already know your way around the program.
OTOH, PS Elements is an entry level program for persons like yourself who are new to digital imaging. Entry level does not mean dumbed down. PS Elements is extremely powerful and can do almost everything that a newbie would want to do with full PS. But unlike full PS, Elements volunteers a lot of help as you work thru the editing process. Even so, using the tools in any photo editing program is not intuitive. IMHO, you will need a well written book or manual to help you learn what the various editing tools do and how to use them.
I suggest that you buy PS Elements 7 and STRONGLY encourage to purchase a self-help book to go along with it. Over the years I have used a number of self-help books on using PS and I can recommend the "Teach Yourself Visually" series as well as the "Classroom in a Book" series by the Adobe Staff.
Amazon carries both oh these series. For a rank beginner, I would start with Teach Yourself……" and graduate to "Classroom…….." At Amazon.com, See:
http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Yourself-VISUALLY-Photoshop-Elem ents/dp/0470396687/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12 30189028&sr=1-4

Bob Williams

I just took advantage of that $12 for Elements 6 from Price Grabber, so I’ll be able to get a good feel for how it compares to my current PSP 9. All packages do red eye in one way or another, but PSP 9 does it in style, you get to choices on what to replace with, and for animal lovers is has an animal selection which is nice. They get same problem but color is usually other than red.
Now at least I should be able to get a decent book or two that relates to what I’m using without having to translate (although much of the time that does work).
For $12 the op could play with that at low risk. I looked at some reviews and there doesn’t appear to be much lost in 6 from version 7. Dave Cohen

I use Elements 5.0, and tried 6.0 as a trial. I didn’t see enough of a difference between the two to buy 6.0. There’s always one tool in a new version that is nice, but new versions don’t offer major change.

If you feel comfortable buying a book, do so. That adds $30 to $40 to your cost. The price of books on any program is astronomically high. I spent $40 on a Scott Kelby book recently. It was worth it, but it focussed on one particular function of Photoshop (full version): channels.

I’d recommend that you start with following some of the many online tutorials for Elements. They are free, and I think you’ll find that the tutorials get you started as well as a book would. I do have a book on Elements (Classroom in a Book – $40) that was a gift, but I usually go to an online tutorial if I want additional information on a tool’s use. The one advantage of the book is the included CD with examples.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
JN
John Navas
Dec 25, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:09:57 -0800, "Leo Lichtman" wrote in
<woF4l.9740$>:

"tony cooper" wrote: (clip)You really have to gear the discussion to the wants and needs of the
poster or you’ll just add to the confusion that brought him to the newsgroup in the first place.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This sentence could well be cross-posted to a great many other newsgroups. Well thought and well said.

Amen!


Best regards,
John
Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others
JU
jclarke.usenet
Dec 25, 2008
tony cooper wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:40:21 -0500, Dave Cohen
wrote:

Bob Williams wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures
or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community
at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

Full Photoshop is a PROFESSIONAL program.
Although it is extremely powerful and versatile, it is NOT easy to learn on your own.
Adode assumes that if you put out major bucks for the CS versions, you are a working professional or serious amateur and you already know your way around the program.
OTOH, PS Elements is an entry level program for persons like yourself who are new to digital imaging. Entry level does not mean
dumbed down. PS Elements is extremely powerful and can do almost everything that a newbie would want to do with full PS. But unlike full PS, Elements volunteers a lot of help as you work thru the editing process.
Even so, using the tools in any photo editing program is not intuitive. IMHO, you will need a well written book or manual to help you learn what the various editing tools do and how to use them.
I suggest that you buy PS Elements 7 and STRONGLY encourage to purchase a self-help book to go along with it. Over the years I have used a number of self-help books on using PS and I can recommend the "Teach Yourself Visually" series as well as the "Classroom in a Book" series by the Adobe Staff. Amazon carries both oh these series. For a rank beginner, I would start with Teach Yourself……" and graduate to
"Classroom…….."
At Amazon.com, See:
http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Yourself-VISUALLY-Photoshop-Elem ents/dp/0470396687/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12 30189028&sr=1-4

Bob Williams

I just took advantage of that $12 for Elements 6 from Price Grabber,
so I’ll be able to get a good feel for how it compares to my current
PSP 9. All packages do red eye in one way or another, but PSP 9 does it in style, you get to choices on what to replace with, and for animal lovers is has an animal selection which is nice. They get
same problem but color is usually other than red.
Now at least I should be able to get a decent book or two that relates to what I’m using without having to translate (although much
of the time that does work).
For $12 the op could play with that at low risk. I looked at some reviews and there doesn’t appear to be much lost in 6 from version
7.
Dave Cohen

I use Elements 5.0, and tried 6.0 as a trial. I didn’t see enough of
a difference between the two to buy 6.0. There’s always one tool in a
new version that is nice, but new versions don’t offer major change.
If you feel comfortable buying a book, do so. That adds $30 to $40 to
your cost. The price of books on any program is astronomically high.
I spent $40 on a Scott Kelby book recently. It was worth it, but it focussed on one particular function of Photoshop (full version): channels.

I’d recommend that you start with following some of the many online tutorials for Elements. They are free, and I think you’ll find that the tutorials get you started as well as a book would. I do have a book on Elements (Classroom in a Book – $40) that was a gift, but I usually go to an online tutorial if I want additional information on a
tool’s use. The one advantage of the book is the included CD with examples.

You think 40 bucks is high, price college texts.



–John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
R
ray
Dec 25, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 18:01:42 -0500, Dave Cohen wrote:

Neil Jones wrote:
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

PS is a very expensive product with a steep learning curve. It’s the standard for professionals, particularly if final output is for professional publication.

I’ve never used elements but understand it’s all the normal amateur would need. I’ve used PhotoPlus and now use PSP9. The latter is almost given away if you can find it. Later versions are distributed by Corel. All the above are really adequate. You can get lots of free stuff, but at some time or other you’ll discover layers and for that you will need something a little better than a freebie, which is not to knock the latter. FastStone is great for quick fix ups and cropping.

Why is that? I find that GIMP does layers adequately.

One last point, there is a free and quite powerful product known at The Gimp. Some people seem to love it, I don’t. You would need to download a copy and see for yourself.
Dave Cohen
R
ray
Dec 25, 2008
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 07:18:21 -0500, Neil Jones wrote:

Leo Lichtman wrote:
I started with Photoshop Elements 4, and I was fortunate that just at the right time, a retired UC professor in my area offered weekly lessons on it in his home. I want to emphacize this: using a program that is popular has its advantages. You can find people to talk to, ask questions and compare experiences with, like I did. We still meet in this professor’s home and discuss our work, even though the instructional part is over. Being with others who share the same background and experience is very rewarding; you never stop learning.
You hit the main point that had me post this question! I do have GIMP on my system and have used it minimally over the years (only for cropping). Now I want to do a little bit more than cropping the pictures. I know GIMP can do what Adobe PS or Elements is doing. BUT, the support groups/books/classes offered for GIMP are minimal compared to Adobe Photoshop. Yes, the tutorials for GIMP at one or two main websites do not motivate me to do anything creative/enchanements to my pictures. The users on GIMP mailing list/newsgroup either have never been tried what I am trying to accomplish with my photo editing or have the attitude "Go figure it out yourself". Last but least, I am willing to take a class which will teach me how to process pictures. So far that I know, I have not seen anything for GIMP. Photoshop does have quite a few classes. With Photoshop, my main confusion was about the products at their website (Which one do I need?).

"Beginning GIMP" by Peck is an excellent resource book. "Grokking the GIMP" is likewise an excellent and quite comprehensive tutorial.

The other software packages, even the ones that came along with my camera really don’t interest me in trying to be creative with my pictures.

I think I will consider getting Photoshop Elements (in the next few weeks) and consider taking a class.

Now, like Leo, I will need to find a university professor or some professional who offers classes locally for Photoshop.

NJ
A
axiom
Dec 25, 2008
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 11:51:08 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

If you feel comfortable buying a book, do so. That adds $30 to $40 to your cost. The price of books on any program is astronomically high. I spent $40 on a Scott Kelby book recently. It was worth it, but it focussed on one particular function of Photoshop (full version): channels.

You can get great used-book deals on half.com. It’s run by ebay but rather than auctions each seller offers the book at some fixed price. Shipping varies by the seller and how quickly you want it, but usually runs about $3 for mediamail. I’ve gotten lots of great deals there.

I’d recommend that you start with following some of the many online tutorials for Elements. They are free, and I think you’ll find that the tutorials get you started as well as a book would. I do have a book on Elements (Classroom in a Book – $40) that was a gift, but I usually go to an online tutorial if I want additional information on a tool’s use. The one advantage of the book is the included CD with examples.

alt.binaries.wallpapers has something called the "walrus" contest that can be most educational. Each week the previous week’s winner posts some piece of graphics (the "source"), then everybody competes to see who can use it the most creatively in their own artwork. Anyone who wants to play is welcome to join in; rules of the game are posted along with the weekly source.
PF
Paul Furman
Dec 25, 2008
Neil Jones wrote:
Leo Lichtman wrote:
I started with Photoshop Elements 4, and I was fortunate that just at the right time, a retired UC professor in my area offered weekly lessons on it in his home. I want to emphacize this: using a program that is popular has its advantages. You can find people to talk to, ask questions and compare experiences with, like I did. We still meet in this professor’s home and discuss our work, even though the instructional part is over. Being with others who share the same background and experience is very rewarding; you never stop learning.

You hit the main point that had me post this question! I do have GIMP on my system and have used it minimally over the years (only for cropping). Now I want to do a little bit more than cropping the pictures. I know GIMP can do what Adobe PS or Elements is doing. BUT, the support groups/books/classes offered for GIMP are minimal compared to Adobe Photoshop. Yes, the tutorials for GIMP at one or two main websites do not motivate me to do anything creative/enchanements to my pictures. The users on GIMP mailing list/newsgroup either have never been tried what I am trying to accomplish with my photo editing or have the attitude "Go figure it out yourself". Last but least, I am willing to take a class which will teach me how to process pictures. So far that I know, I have not seen anything for GIMP. Photoshop does have quite a few classes. With Photoshop, my main confusion was about the products at their website (Which one do I need?).

Yep, Elements is a good choice and it is eligible for upgrading should you decide to.

One more possibility that hasn’t been discussed is Adobe Lightroom, or Picassa is similar if $300 sounds like too much. You really can do almost anything for photography in Lightroom including minor cloning & locally applied adjustments almost as good as layer masks in photoshop but a lot easier to apply to a batch of files. This is a professional program though and definitely requires studying to use. Try just playing with it & you’ll make a mess! 🙂 I’m evaluating a trial copy now and I’ve used photoshop for probably 15 years, only the last 5 years or so did I really study it’s use for photography.

I used full photoshop in an office for architectural work (somewhat peripheral tool) for years before trying Elements and the first time I tried Elements I could not see anything missing.

The other software packages, even the ones that came along with my camera really don’t interest me in trying to be creative with my pictures.
I think I will consider getting Photoshop Elements (in the next few weeks) and consider taking a class.

Now, like Leo, I will need to find a university professor or some professional who offers classes locally for Photoshop.

Check out video tutorials online. That’s an incredibly valuable way to learn software second only to leaning over the shoulder of an expert.


Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam
JN
John Navas
Dec 25, 2008
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:43:50 -0500, "J. Clarke" wrote in :

tony cooper wrote:
You think 40 bucks is high, price college texts.

Indeed, what happens when the free market isn’t allowed to do its thing. Unfortunately, the cozy relationship between textbook publishers and educations means it probably won’t change anytime soon.


Best regards,
John
Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others
K
kevink
Dec 25, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:00:43 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

I would strongly suggest that you check out this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_raster_graphics_editors

It lists most all of the better-known graphic editors. Many of them are freeware and would do more than you will ever need.

For someone in your position, anything by Adobe is overkill and a waste of money and time. I personally never use Adobe anything, as there are much better editors out there. A few that would be more than you will ever need are Paint Shop Pro (v9.01 is more than you will need), Zoner Photo Studio, PhotoBrush, IrfanView, PhotoImpact, Serif PhotoPlus, FastStone, and Gimp. Just because others say to use Adobe doesn’t mean it’s the best. Adobe has been outclassed by many many other editors many years ago. The "pros" just are so used to using outdated Adobe software with last-century features and capabilities that they don’t know any better. Stuck in a rut. There is much better software out there now, going on 8 years. You’re in a position to learn from the beginning, finding even better software that the trolls and "pros" are unwilling or incapable of learning anew.
W
WhoDunnit
Dec 25, 2008
"Paul Furman" wrote in message
Neil Jones wrote:
Leo Lichtman wrote:
I started with Photoshop Elements 4, and I was fortunate that just at the right time, a retired UC professor in my area offered weekly lessons on it in his home. I want to emphacize this: using a program that is popular has its advantages. You can find people to talk to, ask questions and compare experiences with, like I did. We still meet in this professor’s home and discuss our work, even though the instructional part is over. Being with others who share the same background and experience is very rewarding; you never stop learning.

You hit the main point that had me post this question! I do have GIMP on my system and have used it minimally over the years (only for cropping). Now I want to do a little bit more than cropping the pictures. I know GIMP can do what Adobe PS or Elements is doing. BUT, the support groups/books/classes offered for GIMP are minimal compared to Adobe Photoshop. Yes, the tutorials for GIMP at one or two main websites do not motivate me to do anything creative/enchanements to my pictures. The users on GIMP mailing list/newsgroup either have never been tried what I am trying to accomplish with my photo editing or have the attitude "Go figure it out yourself". Last but least, I am willing to take a class which will teach me how to process pictures. So far that I know, I have not seen anything for GIMP. Photoshop does have quite a few classes. With Photoshop, my main confusion was about the products at their website (Which one do I need?).

Yep, Elements is a good choice and it is eligible for upgrading should you decide to.

One more possibility that hasn’t been discussed is Adobe Lightroom, or Picassa is similar if $300 sounds like too much. You really can do almost anything for photography in Lightroom including minor cloning & locally applied adjustments almost as good as layer masks in photoshop but a lot easier to apply to a batch of files. This is a professional program though and definitely requires studying to use. Try just playing with it & you’ll make a mess! 🙂 I’m evaluating a trial copy now and I’ve used photoshop for probably 15 years, only the last 5 years or so did I really study it’s use for photography.

I used full photoshop in an office for architectural work (somewhat peripheral tool) for years before trying Elements and the first time I tried Elements I could not see anything missing.
SNIP

Elements I could not see anything missing.

ELEMENTS has no CMYK functions?

which unless you will output for professional printing you won’t need (digital color separations in ink colors)

The best learning is to open the program
and try all the tools to see what they do
just get familiar with the interface
or if you have a specific goal in mind Google a tutorial and learn one idea or correction style at a time

when you say enhance photos some people just want a bit of control on contrast color balance change to BW sepia etc
and others want to cut out objects blend layers add text make collages paint over filter and distort things
so many things you may not need in the beginning and can add as you go along

I began with 4.0 PS so many years ago and being self taught I just invented crazy ways to achieve my goals
along the way I began to learn new and better ways to do the same things developed better work habits etc
as people here mentioned PS is not a toy but a powerful set of tools so begin to learn to hammer nails and then screw in screws later you can re-wire the whole house or maybe even build one from scratch

it was so much simpler then too I cannot imagine having to open CS3 and just learn it
we are fortunate to have only had to learn changes in the updates as they came out
the program has grown in complexity and range

like any artwork you don’t become a master because you took a course in school and learned to hold the brush and mix colors
it’s a lifelong learning and no end to one’s creative artistic goals and perfecting technique

so much is out there now in tutorials on line
even youtube has some good vids on how to retouch etc
if you prefer step by step school with a teacher maybe most comfortable to you
but my neighbor is a teacher of PS and Elements and sorry to say basically he reads a textbook and teaches that lesson
on stuff he may not know himself coming from web design background

I advise laying off plug-ins at first, learn how to do all these manually most important- file and formats for files
layers how to work them why to use them
selections selections selections
layer adjustments- curves and or levels
B
Benny
Dec 25, 2008
I would strongly suggest that you check out this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_raster_graphics_editors
It lists most all of the better-known graphic editors. Many of them are freeware
and would do more than you will ever need.

For someone in your position, anything by Adobe is overkill and a waste of money
and time. I personally never use Adobe anything, as there are much better editors out there. A few that would be more than you will ever need are Paint
Shop Pro (v9.01 is more than you will need), Zoner Photo Studio, PhotoBrush,
IrfanView, PhotoImpact, Serif PhotoPlus, FastStone, and Gimp. Just because
others say to use Adobe doesn’t mean it’s the best. Adobe has been outclassed by
many many other editors many years ago. The "pros" just are so used to using
outdated Adobe software with last-century features and capabilities that they
don’t know any better. Stuck in a rut. There is much better software out there
now, going on 8 years. You’re in a position to learn from the beginning, finding
even better software that the trolls and "pros" are unwilling or incapable of
learning anew.

I’m very open to using other graphics software instead of Adobe Photoshop CS or Elements.
Can you please give some examples of what your suggested packages are capable of that are lacking in Adobe products.
regards
Benny
DC
Dave Cohen
Dec 26, 2008
Dave Cohen wrote:
Bob Williams wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

Full Photoshop is a PROFESSIONAL program.
Although it is extremely powerful and versatile, it is NOT easy to learn on your own.
Adode assumes that if you put out major bucks for the CS versions, you are a working professional or serious amateur and you already know your way around the program.
OTOH, PS Elements is an entry level program for persons like yourself who are new to digital imaging. Entry level does not mean dumbed down. PS Elements is extremely powerful and can do almost everything that a newbie would want to do with full PS. But unlike full PS, Elements volunteers a lot of help as you work thru the editing process. Even so, using the tools in any photo editing program is not intuitive. IMHO, you will need a well written book or manual to help you learn what the various editing tools do and how to use them.
I suggest that you buy PS Elements 7 and STRONGLY encourage to purchase a self-help book to go along with it. Over the years I have used a number of self-help books on using PS and I can recommend the "Teach Yourself Visually" series as well as the "Classroom in a Book" series by the Adobe Staff.
Amazon carries both oh these series. For a rank beginner, I would start with Teach Yourself……" and graduate to "Classroom…….." At Amazon.com, See:
http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Yourself-VISUALLY-Photoshop-Elem ents/dp/0470396687/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12 30189028&sr=1-4

Bob Williams

I just took advantage of that $12 for Elements 6 from Price Grabber, so I’ll be able to get a good feel for how it compares to my current PSP 9. All packages do red eye in one way or another, but PSP 9 does it in style, you get to choices on what to replace with, and for animal lovers is has an animal selection which is nice. They get same problem but color is usually other than red.
Now at least I should be able to get a decent book or two that relates to what I’m using without having to translate (although much of the time that does work).
For $12 the op could play with that at low risk. I looked at some reviews and there doesn’t appear to be much lost in 6 from version 7. Dave Cohen
w
Whoops, I posted late at night. $12 was for PSP9, Elements is $28 from Price Grabber with free shipping available.
Dave Cohen
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 26, 2008
John Navas wrote:

… Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.
The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is quite powerful and free, I’ll think you’ll find the interface in Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30. (See link in my earlier post.)
Similarly, I find the Photoshop interface rather unintuitive, at least compared to Paintshop Pro.

I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?

I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same problem, the interface and features didn’t appeal to me as PSP’s did.
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 26, 2008
John Navas wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:09:57 -0800, "Leo Lichtman" wrote in
<woF4l.9740$>:

"tony cooper" wrote: (clip)You really have to gear the discussion to the wants and needs of the
poster or you’ll just add to the confusion that brought him to the newsgroup in the first place.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This sentence could well be cross-posted to a great many other newsgroups. Well thought and well said.

Amen!

And another from me!
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 26, 2008
Leo Lichtman wrote:
I started with Photoshop Elements 4, and I was fortunate that just at the right time, a retired UC professor in my area offered weekly lessons on it in his home. I want to emphacize this: using a program that is popular has its advantages. You can find people to talk to, ask questions and compare experiences with, like I did. We still meet in this professor’s home and discuss our work, even though the instructional part is over. Being with others who share the same background and experience is very rewarding; you never stop learning.

It’s a good thought, but popularity is a double-edged sword: just because it’s popular, doesn’t mean everyone who has it is PROFICIENT in it. Yeah, you can find a lot of people that use it, but they’re only using it because they too heard it’s "the best" or "the most popular" and the most you’ll be able to discuss with them is how to select multiple files in the File Open dialog.
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 26, 2008
Dave Cohen wrote:

I just took advantage of that $12 for Elements 6 from Price Grabber, so I’ll be able to get a good feel for how it compares to my current PSP 9.

Wouldn’t it be cheaper to take advantage of the free download of the trial version from Adobe?

For $12 the op could play with that at low risk.

Free is even less risk.
AS
Axel Siebenwirth
Dec 26, 2008
In article
wrote:

I’ve never used elements but understand it’s all the normal amateur would need. I’ve used PhotoPlus and now use PSP9. The latter is almost given away if you can find it. Later versions are distributed by Corel. All the above are really adequate. You can get lots of free stuff, but at some time or other you’ll discover layers and for that you will need something a little better than a freebie, which is not to knock the latter. FastStone is great for quick fix ups and cropping.

Why is that? I find that GIMP does layers adequately.

or not at all, in the case of adjustment layers.
TC
tony cooper
Dec 26, 2008
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:39:42 GMT, "Benny" <no spam > wrote:

I would strongly suggest that you check out this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_raster_graphics_editors
It lists most all of the better-known graphic editors. Many of them are freeware
and would do more than you will ever need.

For someone in your position, anything by Adobe is overkill and a waste of money
and time. I personally never use Adobe anything, as there are much better editors out there. A few that would be more than you will ever need are Paint
Shop Pro (v9.01 is more than you will need), Zoner Photo Studio, PhotoBrush,
IrfanView, PhotoImpact, Serif PhotoPlus, FastStone, and Gimp. Just because
others say to use Adobe doesn’t mean it’s the best. Adobe has been outclassed by
many many other editors many years ago. The "pros" just are so used to using
outdated Adobe software with last-century features and capabilities that they
don’t know any better. Stuck in a rut. There is much better software out there
now, going on 8 years. You’re in a position to learn from the beginning, finding
even better software that the trolls and "pros" are unwilling or incapable of
learning anew.

I’m very open to using other graphics software instead of Adobe Photoshop CS or Elements.
Can you please give some examples of what your suggested packages are capable of that are lacking in Adobe products.
regards

There really isn’t anything "better" than the Adobe products because when evaluating a photo editing program you should take into account all of the functions possible with that program. I’m familiar with most of the above-named products, and they each have some functions that are quite functional for basic editing. After all, functions like crop, resize, and adjustment of brightness/contrast are the primary level editing functions, and all of these programs do this.

Where the Adobe programs kick in is when you want to do more sophisticated editing…adjustment layers, for example. An adjustment layer allows you to change Levels, Brightness/Contrast, Hue and Saturation, etc in a non-permanent way that allows you to come back and tweak individual steps.

A program that doesn’t offer adjustment layers isn’t a bad program, but it doesn’t allow you to grow. There are other features of Photoshop (full version) and Elements that the same can be said for.

There are plug-ins and add-ons available for Photoshop products that make certain image modifications easier. I’m currently trying out a filter plug-in called Color FX Pro; it came (free) bundled with a Wacom tablet I purchased. It doesn’t do anything that I can’t do in Photoshop (full version) or Elements, but it makes certain effects easier to do. There are hundreds of free downloadable Action sets for Photoshop (full version).

The wide usage base of Adobe products ensures that more and more plug-ins and Actions will be available in the future. It also ensures that more tutorials will be available for Photoshop and Elements. I don’t think this is true of some of the other programs the poster has listed.

The statements of the above poster are typical of the type of person who has made his own choice and feels he has to justify that choice by talking about Adobe as "outdated" and "outclassed". He may be able to do photo editing to his own satisfaction with these substitutes, but it’s unlikely that his results will be on par with someone who is proficient in any of the Adobe products.

It’s sad that this person feels he has to denigrate the Adobe products just because he is satisfied with something else.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
R
ronviers
Dec 26, 2008
Another good reason to use Photoshop, even though it does have more of a learning curve, is that it is the industry standard. For example, when you configure the preferences inside Maya (a popular 3d package) the only application singled out is ‘Application Path for Editing Adobe Photoshop Files’. And if you watch video number fourteen ‘Import PSD’ files at this url:

http://www.eyeonline.com/Web/EyeonWeb/marketing/21reasons/21 reasons_15.aspx

You will see that Fusion assumes you are working with Adobe PS. This is just a couple of examples but it happens all over. Adobe takes being the leader very seriously.
So if your plan is to start with processing photos but then eventually move on to other areas then consider sticking it out with Photoshop.
TC
tony cooper
Dec 26, 2008
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 16:41:45 -0800, Matt Ion
wrote:

John Navas wrote:

… Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.
The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is quite powerful and free, I’ll think you’ll find the interface in Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30. (See link in my earlier post.)
Similarly, I find the Photoshop interface rather unintuitive, at least compared to Paintshop Pro.

I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?

I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same problem, the interface and features didn’t appeal to me as PSP’s did.

I used PSP when it was a free product offered by Jasc. I lost interest in it when Corel took over. Not for any good reason, though. I just don’t like Corel because they refuse to support older versions of WordPerfect. They require you to continually update even though your current version is perfectly adequate for what you do. I switched to Open Office for this reason.

I still use CorelDraw 9, but I’ll hang on to that as long as it works. The version I have does everything I need it to do.

I’m a bit of a Luddite in this. If a program does what I want, I don’t want to change just because a new version is available. I’m quite satisfied with Photoshop 7.0 and Elements 5.0. I’ve used the trial versions of the Photoshop CS versions and Elements 6.0. I didn’t find anything in them that looked particularly useful to me.

Naturally, I’m still on WindowsXP and have no interest in Vista.

I should mention that I don’t make a living using any of these programs. If I was a professional user, my attitude might be different.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
SB
Stephen Bishop
Dec 26, 2008
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:00:43 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

Having previously recommended Elements (I still do) let me add that I only rarely use the program because I find Lightroom to be more than capable for most of what I do. I stopped editing jpegs long ago and have standardized on RAW because of both quality and convenience reasons. A program like Lightroom (Apple’s Aperture is similar) is fantastic because it is an all-in-one solution with a single intuitive and elegant interface. This allows me to concentrate more on my photography rather than juggling different programs and interfaces for different tasks.

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshoplightroom/faq/

The price is a little steep compared to Elements or PSP, but if you or anyone in your family is a student or a teacher you can get a very substantial educational discount.

Others have recommended free programs like GIMP. You can’t argue with the price, but as is true with most open-sourced free programs, it seems to be more suited for computer enthusiasts (particularly LINUX users) than it is for photographers.
-hh
Dec 26, 2008
Neil Jones wrote:
I think I will consider getting Photoshop Elements (in the next few weeks) and consider taking a class.

Now, like Leo, I will need to find a university professor or some professional who offers classes locally for Photoshop.

Something else to be aware of is that if you’re taking a local college class, this may make you eligible for a "Student" (Academic Discount) version of whatever software you’re looking at learning.

For example, the Academic price on the full blown version of Photoshop CS4 is around $198, and Photoshop Elements $65.

-hh
JM
John McWilliams
Dec 26, 2008
Stephen Bishop wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:00:43 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

Having previously recommended Elements (I still do) let me add that I only rarely use the program because I find Lightroom to be more than capable for most of what I do. I stopped editing jpegs long ago and have standardized on RAW because of both quality and convenience reasons. A program like Lightroom (Apple’s Aperture is similar) is fantastic because it is an all-in-one solution with a single intuitive and elegant interface. This allows me to concentrate more on my photography rather than juggling different programs and interfaces for different tasks.

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshoplightroom/faq/

The price is a little steep compared to Elements or PSP, but if you or anyone in your family is a student or a teacher you can get a very substantial educational discount.

Others have recommended free programs like GIMP. You can’t argue with the price, but as is true with most open-sourced free programs, it seems to be more suited for computer enthusiasts (particularly LINUX users) than it is for photographers.

Above all, I recommend a program that’s cross platform, and one in which there’s room to grow.


john mcwilliams
R
ray
Dec 26, 2008
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 06:59:00 -0500, Stephen Bishop wrote:

On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:00:43 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

Having previously recommended Elements (I still do) let me add that I only rarely use the program because I find Lightroom to be more than capable for most of what I do. I stopped editing jpegs long ago and have standardized on RAW because of both quality and convenience reasons. A program like Lightroom (Apple’s Aperture is similar) is fantastic because it is an all-in-one solution with a single intuitive and elegant interface. This allows me to concentrate more on my photography rather than juggling different programs and interfaces for different tasks.

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshoplightroom/faq/

I find that ufraw allows one to do basic processing on RAW files – it’s also Open Source and free.

The price is a little steep compared to Elements or PSP, but if you or anyone in your family is a student or a teacher you can get a very substantial educational discount.

Others have recommended free programs like GIMP. You can’t argue with the price, but as is true with most open-sourced free programs, it seems to be more suited for computer enthusiasts (particularly LINUX users) than it is for photographers.

One main benefit of GIMP, ufraw and other open source programs. You can try it for free with no limitations. If they don’t meet your needs, then you can move along and spend some serious bucks. Please not, also, that it has been mentioned that the expensive software often has free trial versions – the kicker is that they are generally restricted in what they can do.
HD
Hans Dull
Dec 26, 2008
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

[…]
I can recommend GIMP 2.6.3 – It has everything an amateur photographer needs and it runs on Linux as well as on any Windows (The CPU should be fast allready for both, Gimp or (PS) Photoshop). In my opinon, PS Elements has lower funtionality than Gimp, wich has lower functionality than Photoshop CS. PS is a verry powerful Software which ist too powerful for an Amateur.


Grüße ins Netz

Hans
AS
Axel Siebenwirth
Dec 26, 2008
In article
wrote:

One main benefit of GIMP, ufraw and other open source programs. You can try it for free with no limitations.

photoshop has a free trial version.

If they don’t meet your needs, then
you can move along and spend some serious bucks. Please not, also, that it has been mentioned that the expensive software often has free trial versions – the kicker is that they are generally restricted in what they can do.

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.
AS
Axel Siebenwirth
Dec 26, 2008
In article <gj33ru$toi$00$>, Hans Dull
wrote:

In my opinon, PS Elements has
lower funtionality than Gimp, wich has lower functionality than Photoshop CS. PS is a verry powerful Software which ist too powerful for an Amateur.

even photoshop elements does more than the gimp does.
JN
John Navas
Dec 26, 2008
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 16:41:45 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gj198l$cbq$>:

John Navas wrote:

… Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.
The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is quite powerful and free, I’ll think you’ll find the interface in Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30. (See link in my earlier post.)
Similarly, I find the Photoshop interface rather unintuitive, at least compared to Paintshop Pro.

I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?

I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same problem, the interface and features didn’t appeal to me as PSP’s did.

Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
R
ray
Dec 26, 2008
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:03:52 -0500, nospam wrote:

In article
wrote:

One main benefit of GIMP, ufraw and other open source programs. You can try it for free with no limitations.

photoshop has a free trial version.

If they don’t meet your needs, then
you can move along and spend some serious bucks. Please not, also, that it has been mentioned that the expensive software often has free trial versions – the kicker is that they are generally restricted in what they can do.

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!
TR
The Real Bev
Dec 26, 2008
John Navas wrote:

Matt Ion wrote

John Navas wrote:

I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?

I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same problem, the interface and features didn’t appeal to me as PSP’s did.

Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.

Has anybody tried Picasa recently? Unless you want to do something elaborate, it works really nicely. Newest improvement — a clone-like tool which is REALLY easy. The easy red-eye correction has been in there for a long time.

The price is right, and the on-line albums aren’t all that bad either..


Cheers, Bev
============================================================ ========= If violence isn’t solving the problem, you’re not using enough of it.
JN
John Navas
Dec 26, 2008
On 26 Dec 2008 20:57:09 GMT, ray wrote in
:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 14:03:52 -0500, nospam wrote:

In article
wrote:

One main benefit of GIMP, ufraw and other open source programs. You can try it for free with no limitations.

photoshop has a free trial version.

If they don’t meet your needs, then
you can move along and spend some serious bucks. Please not, also, that it has been mentioned that the expensive software often has free trial versions – the kicker is that they are generally restricted in what they can do.

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

Certainly if you want to steal it. 😉


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
AS
Axel Siebenwirth
Dec 26, 2008
In article
wrote:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide within a week or two.
DC
Dave Cohen
Dec 26, 2008
tony cooper wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:40:21 -0500, Dave Cohen
wrote:

Bob Williams wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:
Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?
Full Photoshop is a PROFESSIONAL program.
Although it is extremely powerful and versatile, it is NOT easy to learn on your own.
Adode assumes that if you put out major bucks for the CS versions, you are a working professional or serious amateur and you already know your way around the program.
OTOH, PS Elements is an entry level program for persons like yourself who are new to digital imaging. Entry level does not mean dumbed down. PS Elements is extremely powerful and can do almost everything that a newbie would want to do with full PS. But unlike full PS, Elements volunteers a lot of help as you work thru the editing process. Even so, using the tools in any photo editing program is not intuitive. IMHO, you will need a well written book or manual to help you learn what the various editing tools do and how to use them.
I suggest that you buy PS Elements 7 and STRONGLY encourage to purchase a self-help book to go along with it. Over the years I have used a number of self-help books on using PS and I can recommend the "Teach Yourself Visually" series as well as the "Classroom in a Book" series by the Adobe Staff.
Amazon carries both oh these series. For a rank beginner, I would start with Teach Yourself……" and graduate to "Classroom…….." At Amazon.com, See:
http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Yourself-VISUALLY-Photoshop-Elem ents/dp/0470396687/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12 30189028&sr=1-4

Bob Williams
I just took advantage of that $12 for Elements 6 from Price Grabber, so I’ll be able to get a good feel for how it compares to my current PSP 9. All packages do red eye in one way or another, but PSP 9 does it in style, you get to choices on what to replace with, and for animal lovers is has an animal selection which is nice. They get same problem but color is usually other than red.
Now at least I should be able to get a decent book or two that relates to what I’m using without having to translate (although much of the time that does work).
For $12 the op could play with that at low risk. I looked at some reviews and there doesn’t appear to be much lost in 6 from version 7. Dave Cohen

I use Elements 5.0, and tried 6.0 as a trial. I didn’t see enough of a difference between the two to buy 6.0. There’s always one tool in a new version that is nice, but new versions don’t offer major change.
If you feel comfortable buying a book, do so. That adds $30 to $40 to your cost. The price of books on any program is astronomically high. I spent $40 on a Scott Kelby book recently. It was worth it, but it focussed on one particular function of Photoshop (full version): channels.

I’d recommend that you start with following some of the many online tutorials for Elements. They are free, and I think you’ll find that the tutorials get you started as well as a book would. I do have a book on Elements (Classroom in a Book – $40) that was a gift, but I usually go to an online tutorial if I want additional information on a tool’s use. The one advantage of the book is the included CD with examples.
My local library has some stuff on both PS and Elements. Not sure what versions are covered. I got a $50 gift certificate for Barnes & Noble so I’ll see what they carry.
Dave Cohen
DC
Dave Cohen
Dec 26, 2008
wrote:
Another good reason to use Photoshop, even though it does have more of a learning curve, is that it is the industry standard. For example, when you configure the preferences inside Maya (a popular 3d package) the only application singled out is ‘Application Path for Editing Adobe Photoshop Files’. And if you watch video number fourteen ‘Import PSD’ files at this url:

http://www.eyeonline.com/Web/EyeonWeb/marketing/21reasons/21 reasons_15.aspx
You will see that Fusion assumes you are working with Adobe PS. This is just a couple of examples but it happens all over. Adobe takes being the leader very seriously.
So if your plan is to start with processing photos but then eventually move on to other areas then consider sticking it out with Photoshop.
That’s good logic if it applies to Elements and I’m going to give taht one a try. However, the jump in price from Elements or something like PSP or PhotoPlus in my opinion cannot be justified by the points you make true as they maybe.
A similar situation exists with PageMaker and PagePlus which I have used for years. The latter is perfectly adequate for the majority of needs. Both PageMaker and PS are geared towards the professional with pre-press preparation in mind. My guess is half the people using the full version product didn’t pay for it anyway, I do miss my working days when I could play with software at company expense.
Dave Cohen
TC
tony cooper
Dec 26, 2008
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:07:26 -0500, Dave Cohen
wrote:

My local library has some stuff on both PS and Elements. Not sure what versions are covered. I got a $50 gift certificate for Barnes & Noble so I’ll see what they carry.

If you purchase Elements 5.0, 6.0, or 7.0, and all your library carries are books on 4.0 or any previous version to what you purchase, it won’t make a great deal of difference to you. The basic functions have not changed. A book on 4.0 will be useful in learning how to use
6.0. It won’t cover some added features, but you’ll be starting out
with the basics. Some of the new features are pretty
self-explanatory. Just try them and see what they do.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
SH
Stephen Henning
Dec 27, 2008
John Navas wrote:

Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.

In fact, elements usually inherits features from the previous version of Photoshop. So a new version of elements is usually better than an older version of photoshop. The main advantage of elements is that the interface is aimed a photographs. I find it cumbersome to try to use photoshop for photographs. I usually use elements. They both work with Photoshop plugins.


Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA – http://rhodyman.net
SH
Stephen Henning
Dec 27, 2008
In article <gj33ru$toi$00$>,
Hans Dull wrote:

I can recommend GIMP 2.6.3 – It has everything an amateur photographer needs and it runs on Linux as well as on any Windows (The CPU should be fast allready for both, Gimp or (PS) Photoshop). In my opinon, PS Elements has lower funtionality than Gimp, wich has lower functionality than Photoshop CS. PS is a verry powerful Software which ist too powerful for an Amateur.

Gimp also runs on Macs. It can be downloaded at:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/gimponosx/

I find Gimp has a much more limited set of tools than either Elements or Photoshop. Gimp is better at batch changes, but very limited at enhancing photographs.


Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA – http://rhodyman.net
JN
John Navas
Dec 27, 2008
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:57:23 -0500, tony cooper
wrote in
:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:07:26 -0500, Dave Cohen
wrote:

My local library has some stuff on both PS and Elements. Not sure what versions are covered. I got a $50 gift certificate for Barnes & Noble so I’ll see what they carry.

If you purchase Elements 5.0, 6.0, or 7.0, and all your library carries are books on 4.0 or any previous version to what you purchase, it won’t make a great deal of difference to you. The basic functions have not changed. A book on 4.0 will be useful in learning how to use
6.0. It won’t cover some added features, but you’ll be starting out
with the basics. Some of the new features are pretty
self-explanatory. Just try them and see what they do.

I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it’s easier to see just what to do.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
R
ray
Dec 27, 2008
there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

Certainly if you want to steal it. 😉

I have no plans to steal anything. I use Open Source software almost exclusively – I’m quite happy with GIMP and ufraw – do everything I need; at least for now.
R
ray
Dec 27, 2008
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

In article
wrote:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide within a week or two.

Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to use photoshop – it does seem rather limiting.
JN
John Navas
Dec 27, 2008
On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:08 GMT, ray wrote in
:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

Certainly if you want to steal it. 😉

I have no plans to steal anything.

Then it’s not a "major restriction" now is it.

I use Open Source software almost
exclusively – I’m quite happy with GIMP and ufraw – do everything I need; at least for now.

Good for you, I use Photoshop. Unlike you, I find GIMP too painful.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
JN
John Navas
Dec 27, 2008
On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:54 GMT, ray wrote in
:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

In article
wrote:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide within a week or two.

Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to use photoshop – it does seem rather limiting.

Really? What’s reasonable to you? 30 months? 😉


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
AS
Axel Siebenwirth
Dec 27, 2008
In article
wrote:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide within a week or two.

Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to use photoshop – it does seem rather limiting.

i doubt most do, but assuming they did take such a class, they’d still have 2-3 weeks left in which to evaluate it. usually, people just play with it, trying various tutorials found on the ‘net.
R
ray
Dec 27, 2008
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:50:56 -0800, John Navas wrote:

On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:54 GMT, ray wrote in
:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

In article
wrote:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide within a week or two.

Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to use photoshop – it does seem rather limiting.

Really? What’s reasonable to you? 30 months? 😉

I expect that adobe would have better luck with a 90 day period. It’s all really about trying to get the potential buyer ‘hooked’. Yes – 90 days would seem quite reasonable.
R
ray
Dec 27, 2008
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:49:25 -0800, John Navas wrote:

On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:08 GMT, ray wrote in
:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

Certainly if you want to steal it. 😉

I have no plans to steal anything.

Then it’s not a "major restriction" now is it.
I use Open Source software almost
exclusively – I’m quite happy with GIMP and ufraw – do everything I need; at least for now.

Good for you, I use Photoshop. Unlike you, I find GIMP too painful.

I might even be willing to evaluate photoshop and all it’s offshoots. I’ll consider that when they release Linux version. In the meantime, from what I’ve seen, it seems to me that GIMP is more intuitive anyway.
TC
tony cooper
Dec 27, 2008
On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:54 GMT, ray wrote:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

In article
wrote:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide within a week or two.

Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to use photoshop – it does seem rather limiting.

I don’t know where you get that idea. Certainly, some user have taken a class, but it’s far from "most". Even the people who have taken a class are usually people who have worked with Photoshop for a period of time and signed up for a class to improve their skills.

Not only have most people not taken a class, but it’s not that easy to find a Photoshop class. Some universities have undergraduate courses in graphic design, but they aren’t for beginning Photoshop users. Some community colleges have non-credit courses, but are usually so general that they are not worthwhile to take.

I attended a half-day "class" put on by Adobe at one of the Adobe traveling roadshows, but it was nothing more than a presentation of the newest version that highlighted the new features. It was not hands-on. It wasn’t worth the time for me.

The average non-professional who uses the full Photoshop is self-taught from books or online tutorials. The average non-professional is employed full-time and doesn’t have the time available to take a university course if one was offered.

A person interested in using Photoshop who downloads the trial version and works through some of the on-line tutorials, or follows a book with an enclosed CD of examples, will gradually pick up the basic skills. How proficient that person becomes will depend on how much time he spends on tutorials or completing projects from books.

If you follow the Adobe forums you’ll find that most new users are learning the basics by this method.

I have been using full Photoshop for six years, and except for that rather disappointing half-day, I’ve never taken a class. I’m no pro, but I’m rather advanced in the use of Photoshop.

I don’t know why you would make a statement about "most" users when you have no idea what "most" users do. I’ve followed the Photoshop newsgroups and forums for six years, and I think I have a good idea of what "most" do.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 27, 2008
John Navas wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 16:41:45 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gj198l$cbq$>:

John Navas wrote:

… Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.
The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is quite powerful and free, I’ll think you’ll find the interface in Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30. (See link in my earlier post.)
Similarly, I find the Photoshop interface rather unintuitive, at least compared to Paintshop Pro.
I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?
I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same problem, the interface and features didn’t appeal to me as PSP’s did.

Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.

And this is reason I should change what I’m already comfortable and happy with?

PSP has changed much over the years. As has GIMP. As has Windows, MacOS, *nix, and computer hardware in general. I see no point in changing just for the sake of changing.
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 27, 2008
The Real Bev wrote:
John Navas wrote:

Matt Ion wrote

John Navas wrote:

I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?

I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same problem, the interface and features didn’t appeal to me as PSP’s did.

Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.

Has anybody tried Picasa recently? Unless you want to do something elaborate, it works really nicely. Newest improvement — a clone-like tool which is REALLY easy. The easy red-eye correction has been in there for a long time.

The price is right, and the on-line albums aren’t all that bad either..

Probably 99% of my photo work is done in Picasa. I love some of the additions made to V3. There’s still some things I’d like to see, but it’s improving a lot, and it’s quick and easy for most of what I really need to do. I especially like the third-party plugin for easy upload to my Facebook account.
JN
John Navas
Dec 27, 2008
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:12:51 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gj4dh4$4t7$>:

John Navas wrote:

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 16:41:45 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gj198l$cbq$>:

I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same problem, the interface and features didn’t appeal to me as PSP’s did.

Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.

And this is reason I should change what I’m already comfortable and happy with?

Where did I say that?

PSP has changed much over the years. As has GIMP. As has Windows, MacOS, *nix, and computer hardware in general. I see no point in changing just for the sake of changing.

My point was simply that experience with ancient Elements 2 is not terribly germane to current Elements 7, nothing more.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
TC
tony cooper
Dec 27, 2008
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:12:51 -0800, Matt Ion
wrote:

John Navas wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 16:41:45 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gj198l$cbq$>:

John Navas wrote:

… Photoshop and GIMP are both very powerful packages in the right hands. GIMP is open source and FREE. It has a huge following in the Linux world and there is lots of support. It lacks some of the capabilities of Photoshop, but I doubt you would notice.
The other issue is that many people, me included, find the GIMP interface to be unintuitive to the point of pain. While the GIMP is quite powerful and free, I’ll think you’ll find the interface in Photoshop Elements much easier, and it can be found for under $30. (See link in my earlier post.)
Similarly, I find the Photoshop interface rather unintuitive, at least compared to Paintshop Pro.
I said Elements, not the full version. Have you used Elements?
I used Elements 2 for a little while. Went back to PSP. Same problem, the interface and features didn’t appeal to me as PSP’s did.

Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.

And this is reason I should change what I’m already comfortable and happy with?

I don’t see where it was suggested that you change anything. You made the statement that Photoshop’s interface is rather unintuitive. You added that the interface and feature don’t appeal to you. (If I’ve read the attributions correctly)

John brought up the fact that there are newer versions available, and implied in that comment is that the newer versions may offer an interface that is more to your liking. That’s not a suggestion to change. That’s simply a point to consider.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
JN
John Navas
Dec 27, 2008
On 27 Dec 2008 03:17:29 GMT, ray wrote in
:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:50:56 -0800, John Navas wrote:

On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:54 GMT, ray wrote in
:

Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to use photoshop – it does seem rather limiting.

Really? What’s reasonable to you? 30 months? 😉

I expect that adobe would have better luck with a 90 day period. It’s all really about trying to get the potential buyer ‘hooked’. Yes – 90 days would seem quite reasonable.

And somebody will say that’s too limiting, that it should be at least 9 months. And the next person 27 months. And so on.

The problem with 90 days is that quite a few people would simply use the software without paying for it.

30 days is quite reasonable in my opinion.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
SH
Shawn Hirn
Dec 27, 2008
In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

I am a long-time Photoshop user and for amateur’s, I strongly recommend Photoshop Elements. Everything you need to do is available in Photoshop Elements at a fraction of the price of the full Photoshop. You can be PSE anywhere you can buy Photoshop.

By the way, there’s a very active Photoshop newsgroup, which I think is called comp.graphics.apps.photoshop or something along those lines. There are also online discussion groups on Photoshop on Adobe’s web site. All of those forums are resources you should check out.
R
Ragnar
Dec 27, 2008
"Benny" <no spam > wrote in message
I would strongly suggest that you check out this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_raster_graphics_editors
It lists most all of the better-known graphic editors. Many of them are freeware
and would do more than you will ever need.

For someone in your position, anything by Adobe is overkill and a waste of money
and time. I personally never use Adobe anything, as there are much better editors out there. A few that would be more than you will ever need are Paint
Shop Pro (v9.01 is more than you will need), Zoner Photo Studio, PhotoBrush,
IrfanView, PhotoImpact, Serif PhotoPlus, FastStone, and Gimp. Just because
others say to use Adobe doesn’t mean it’s the best. Adobe has been outclassed by
many many other editors many years ago. The "pros" just are so used to using
outdated Adobe software with last-century features and capabilities that they
don’t know any better. Stuck in a rut. There is much better software out there
now, going on 8 years. You’re in a position to learn from the beginning, finding
even better software that the trolls and "pros" are unwilling or incapable of
learning anew.

I’m very open to using other graphics software instead of Adobe Photoshop CS or Elements.
Can you please give some examples of what your suggested packages are capable of that are lacking in Adobe products.
regards
Benny

R
ray
Dec 27, 2008
OK, so let’s say ‘many’ rather than ‘most’. The point I was attempting to make is that unless you spend most of your day every day in front of the computer playing with the software, 30 days is likely to be enough to get a very general introduction – certainly not to master anything or get a real feel for what it will do. I have a life aside from photography. My time would be limited to a few hours here and there. I find 30 days to be quite a short evaluation period. But since I’m not likely to evaluate adobe products until the Linux version comes out, I guess my opinion does not count.
W
WhoDunnit
Dec 27, 2008
"John Navas" wrote in message
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:57:23 -0500, tony cooper
wrote in
:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:07:26 -0500, Dave Cohen
wrote:

My local library has some stuff on both PS and Elements. Not sure what versions are covered. I got a $50 gift certificate for Barnes & Noble so I’ll see what they carry.

If you purchase Elements 5.0, 6.0, or 7.0, and all your library carries are books on 4.0 or any previous version to what you purchase, it won’t make a great deal of difference to you. The basic functions have not changed. A book on 4.0 will be useful in learning how to use
6.0. It won’t cover some added features, but you’ll be starting out
with the basics. Some of the new features are pretty
self-explanatory. Just try them and see what they do.

I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it’s easier to see just what to do.

Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques

I highly recommend the Adobe website tutorials and Russell Brown (if you can get by his weird "sense of humor")
always top notch techniques
and great ideas

If the vids do not play from the page
right click and choose save target as
let them download to your comp and watch later

Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John

same to you all
happy whatever you celebrate
W
WhoDunnit
Dec 27, 2008
"ray" wrote in message
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

In article
wrote:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide within a week or two.

Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to use photoshop – it does seem rather limiting.

If you take a class the comps have educational copies already installed on the comps in the room

no purchase other than course money is required
also qualifies you to buy a cheaper and fully functional and identical program of PS at educational prices

wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS users group and feel the need to make put downs?

like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
W
WhoDunnit
Dec 27, 2008
"tony cooper" wrote in message
On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:54 GMT, ray wrote:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

In article
wrote:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide within a week or two.

Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to use photoshop – it does seem rather limiting.

I don’t know where you get that idea. Certainly, some user have taken a class, but it’s far from "most". Even the people who have taken a class are usually people who have worked with Photoshop for a period of time and signed up for a class to improve their skills.
Not only have most people not taken a class, but it’s not that easy to find a Photoshop class. Some universities have undergraduate courses in graphic design, but they aren’t for beginning Photoshop users. Some community colleges have non-credit courses, but are usually so general that they are not worthwhile to take.

I attended a half-day "class" put on by Adobe at one of the Adobe traveling roadshows, but it was nothing more than a presentation of the newest version that highlighted the new features. It was not hands-on. It wasn’t worth the time for me.

The average non-professional who uses the full Photoshop is self-taught from books or online tutorials. The average non-professional is employed full-time and doesn’t have the time available to take a university course if one was offered.
A person interested in using Photoshop who downloads the trial version and works through some of the on-line tutorials, or follows a book with an enclosed CD of examples, will gradually pick up the basic skills. How proficient that person becomes will depend on how much time he spends on tutorials or completing projects from books.
If you follow the Adobe forums you’ll find that most new users are learning the basics by this method.

I have been using full Photoshop for six years, and except for that rather disappointing half-day, I’ve never taken a class. I’m no pro, but I’m rather advanced in the use of Photoshop.

I don’t know why you would make a statement about "most" users when you have no idea what "most" users do. I’ve followed the Photoshop newsgroups and forums for six years, and I think I have a good idea of what "most" do.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida

have to agree tony
the "courses" are mostly sales pitches you pay for and all about the upgrades

never took any courses just learned bit by bit since version 4.0 and learned more as I went along
and I still learn new things and adapt to changes in the program as it upgrades to new versions

I was invited to teach as a guest lecturer at a fashion college it seems the regular professor was a little clueless himself just used the syllabus book
learned his stuff the night before and then taught it the next day!!! his background is web design and although proficient at that when it came to retouching and creating images photography techniques and enhancing etc he was a little out his box
hence my invite

I would be pissed if I paid for a course with a teacher like that I can read a book myself

he gets $35 US dollars an hour for that!~!!
AS
Axel Siebenwirth
Dec 27, 2008
In article
wrote:

OK, so let’s say ‘many’ rather than ‘most’. The point I was attempting to make is that unless you spend most of your day every day in front of the computer playing with the software, 30 days is likely to be enough to get a very general introduction – certainly not to master anything or get a real feel for what it will do.

that’s all it’s supposed to do – give you an introduction so that you can decide whether to choose it over another product.

I have a life aside from photography. My
time would be limited to a few hours here and there. I find 30 days to be quite a short evaluation period.

30 days is more than enough to get an idea whether or not to purchase the product.

if you only spend a couple hours here and there, then the full suite is clearly not for you (it’s targeted at pros who make their living with it). a better choice would be photoshop elements. it’s just $100, often found for less and even free when it’s bundled with hardware.

in other words, if you haven’t decided in 30 days for something that costs as little as $30-50 or so, you probably don’t want it all that much. extending the trial period to 90 days is not likely to result in changing your mind.

But since I’m not likely to evaluate
adobe products until the Linux version comes out, I guess my opinion does not count.

the likelihood of a linux version of adobe creative suite is for all intents, zero. in fact, they actually had a bsd version of photoshop in the early 90s and it didn’t sell.
R
ray
Dec 27, 2008
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:06:08 -0500, KatWoman wrote:

"ray" wrote in message
On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

In article
wrote:

there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30 days.

Geez – that would seem to be a major restriction!

how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide within a week or two.

Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to use photoshop – it does seem rather limiting.

If you take a class the comps have educational copies already installed on the comps in the room

no purchase other than course money is required also qualifies you to buy a cheaper and fully functional and identical program of PS at educational prices

wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS users group and feel the need to make put downs?

like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris

Excuse me? rec.photo.digital is NOT a "PS users group". And I’m not putting anything down. Simply suggesting that there are other things worth trying that won’t cost an arm and a leg and will probably do all most folks need.
MT
Marco Tedaldi
Dec 27, 2008
KatWoman schrieb:
If you take a class the comps have educational copies already installed on the comps in the room

no purchase other than course money is required
also qualifies you to buy a cheaper and fully functional and identical program of PS at educational prices
nice to know…

wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS users group and feel the need to make put downs?
This might be, because this post is crossposted in 4 different groups (look at the headers) and not every of this groups is dedicated to photoshop. But this is only my own clueless assumption.

like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
did someone diss photoshop? I’ve read the thread but I did not see someone really saying something agains PS. Only people telling, that It does not have to be photoshop since there are alternatives.

And just to finish this: Just because a software is used by the biggest part of the audience it does not always mean that it is the best software for everyone and anything.

For me personally: I can’t (don’t want to) afford PS. So instead of using a pirated copy I’m just using Gimp. Maybe also because I’m using linux 🙂

kruemi


Dimage A2, Agfa isolette
http://flickr.com/photos/kruemi
And a cool timekiller: http://www.starpirates.net/register.php?referer=9708
JN
John Navas
Dec 27, 2008
On 27 Dec 2008 20:26:41 GMT, ray wrote in
:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:06:08 -0500, KatWoman wrote:

wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS users group and feel the need to make put downs?

like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris

Excuse me? rec.photo.digital is NOT a "PS users group". …

This is being cross-posted to:
* adobe.photoshop.windows
* comp.graphics.apps.photoshop


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
JN
John Navas
Dec 27, 2008
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:31:45 +0100, Marco Tedaldi
wrote in
<gj6386$n89$>:

KatWoman schrieb:

like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
did someone diss photoshop? …

Shall we just say GIMP advocacy then? On Linux no less. 😉


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
W
WhoDunnit
Dec 27, 2008
"Marco Tedaldi" wrote in message
KatWoman schrieb:
If you take a class the comps have educational copies already installed on the comps in the room

no purchase other than course money is required
also qualifies you to buy a cheaper and fully functional and identical program of PS at educational prices
nice to know…

wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS users group and feel the need to make put downs?
This might be, because this post is crossposted in 4 different groups (look at the headers) and not every of this groups is dedicated to photoshop. But this is only my own clueless assumption.

like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
did someone diss photoshop? I’ve read the thread but I did not see someone really saying something agains PS. Only people telling, that It does not have to be photoshop since there are alternatives.

And just to finish this: Just because a software is used by the biggest part of the audience it does not always mean that it is the best software for everyone and anything.

For me personally: I can’t (don’t want to) afford PS. So instead of using a pirated copy I’m just using Gimp. Maybe also because I’m using linux 🙂
kruemi


Dimage A2, Agfa isolette
http://flickr.com/photos/kruemi
And a cool timekiller:
http://www.starpirates.net/register.php?referer=9708

I cannot see I posted to or dl’ed any other group
sorry I am new to this NG

the other group I was on showed all the previous posts in each reply and new posts at the bottom

you snip all messages here?
top post is preferred?

why do many of you have addresses that end in @adobeforums.com
SH
Stephen Henning
Dec 27, 2008
Matt Ion wrote:

Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.

And this is reason I should change what I’m already comfortable and happy with?

PSP has changed much over the years. As has GIMP. As has Windows, MacOS, *nix, and computer hardware in general. I see no point in changing just for the sake of changing.

Most of the changes were BIG improvements. My favorite improvements are:

1) Lighten shadows.
2) Darken highlights.

These really speed up what were curve changes.

3) Also changes are much faster.

Probably the next most favorite changes is the

4) smart edge select tool.

It makes it a snap to select a region for enhancement.

Also the enhancement tools are much improved. You no longer have to constantly go back and forth between brightness and contrast. The

5) ASA tool is much better. Also, the have the

6) cool/warm tool which is much more meaningful than the old tint control.

Fortunately, iPhoto has adapted these changes also.


Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA – http://rhodyman.net
B
BillGarrens
Dec 27, 2008
I would strongly suggest that you check out this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_raster_graphics_editors
It lists most all of the better-known graphic editors. Many of them are freeware and would do more than you will ever need.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:06:17 -0500, tony cooper
wrote:

Where the Adobe programs kick in is when you want to do more sophisticated editing…adjustment layers, for example. An adjustment layer allows you to change Levels, Brightness/Contrast, Hue and Saturation, etc in a non-permanent way that allows you to come back and tweak individual steps.

Adjustment Layers is not some amazing "adobe only" concept in graphic editing programs. On that Wiki raster-graphics page I count 35 different editors that use layers and adjustment layers. Take Photoline for example. It alone includes 34 adjustment layer types. One more of them is a "custom" adjustment layer where you can define as many of your own filters as you like by editing a filter-matrix. So in reality, that program has an unlimited number of adjustment layers if you want to define your own collection of presets on the custom one.

Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. Online photoshop fans just don’t realize it. Like the religious, they have kept their nose plastered into only one book all these years and accomplished nothing but becoming phenomenally ignorant. All that’s left is their trying to justify why they have paid so much for so little for so many years.

Pity, that.
JN
John Navas
Dec 27, 2008
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:01:33 -0600, BillGarrens
wrote in :

Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. …

Most professionals would disagree with you.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
R
ray
Dec 27, 2008
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:39:22 -0800, John Navas wrote:

On 27 Dec 2008 20:26:41 GMT, ray wrote in
:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:06:08 -0500, KatWoman wrote:

wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS users group and feel the need to make put downs?

like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris

Excuse me? rec.photo.digital is NOT a "PS users group". …

This is being cross-posted to:
* adobe.photoshop.windows
* comp.graphics.apps.photoshop

Both of which I don’t read – yet I’m chastised for posting a reply in rec.photo.digital. Well, at least I can see where you folks are coming from.
JN
John Navas
Dec 27, 2008
On 27 Dec 2008 22:32:44 GMT, ray wrote in
:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:39:22 -0800, John Navas wrote:

On 27 Dec 2008 20:26:41 GMT, ray wrote in
:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:06:08 -0500, KatWoman wrote:

wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS users group and feel the need to make put downs?

like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris

Excuse me? rec.photo.digital is NOT a "PS users group". …

This is being cross-posted to:
* adobe.photoshop.windows
* comp.graphics.apps.photoshop

Both of which I don’t read – yet I’m chastised for posting a reply in rec.photo.digital. Well, at least I can see where you folks are coming from.

It’s not worth getting upset about on either side.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
B
BillGarrens
Dec 27, 2008
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:17:31 -0800, John Navas
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:01:33 -0600, BillGarrens
wrote in :

Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. …

Most professionals would disagree with you.

You would be correct if you say "some professionals would disagree with you." Otherwise I would be just as correct by saying that "most professionals agree with me." The ones that I know would agree with me.

In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to "intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none the wiser. Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for the best software available.
JN
John Navas
Dec 27, 2008
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:12:13 -0600, BillGarrens
wrote in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:17:31 -0800, John Navas
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:01:33 -0600, BillGarrens
wrote in :

Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. …

Most professionals would disagree with you.

You would be correct if you say "some professionals would disagree with you." Otherwise I would be just as correct by saying that "most professionals agree with me." The ones that I know would agree with me.
In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to "intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none the wiser. Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for the best software available.

You of course know better than all those professionals. 😉


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
JH
Juergen Heinzl
Dec 28, 2008
BillGarrens schrieb:
On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:17:31 -0800, John Navas
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:01:33 -0600, BillGarrens
wrote in :

Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. …
Most professionals would disagree with you.

You would be correct if you say "some professionals would disagree with you." Otherwise I would be just as correct by saying that "most professionals agree with me." The ones that I know would agree with me.

Also known as "anecdotical evidence". Consequently I dare say the earth is flat, smoking & drinking is good for your health and the stars are responsible for our destiny.

In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to "intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none the wiser.

So it is you who is qualified what is judge what an intelligent choice and what is not? Now fancy that!

Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for the best software available.

If you really think there’d be a "best" solution the reason for this may have less to do with there actually is a "best" solution but rather that your personal horizon does not reach much farther than the tip of your nose.

Personally I am sure mentioned projection not to be overly protruding, Juergen
C
Cliff
Dec 28, 2008
BillGarrens wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:17:31 -0800, John Navas
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:01:33 -0600, BillGarrens
wrote in
:

Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. …

Most professionals would disagree with you.

You would be correct if you say "some professionals would disagree with you." Otherwise I would be just as correct by saying that "most professionals agree with me." The ones that I know would agree with me.

In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to "intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none the wiser. Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for the best software available.

Ahh… The ol’ PhotoLine32 troll returns. I wondered when you would surface in this thread.



Cliff
TC
tony cooper
Dec 28, 2008
On 27 Dec 2008 16:23:40 GMT, ray wrote:

OK, so let’s say ‘many’ rather than ‘most’. The point I was attempting to make is that unless you spend most of your day every day in front of the computer playing with the software, 30 days is likely to be enough to get a very general introduction – certainly not to master anything or get a real feel for what it will do. I have a life aside from photography. My time would be limited to a few hours here and there. I find 30 days to be quite a short evaluation period. But since I’m not likely to evaluate adobe products until the Linux version comes out, I guess my opinion does not count.

Photoshop users will not tell you they have mastered Photoshop in 30 days even if they devote their full time to Photoshop. However, a 30 day trial is more than adequate to evaluate a product. Assuming one hour each night five times a week and you have 20 or more hours of hands-on use. That’s more than enough time to make an evaluation.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
TR
The Real Bev
Dec 28, 2008
John Navas wrote:
Marco Tedaldi wrote:
KatWoman schrieb:

like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
did someone diss photoshop? …

Shall we just say GIMP advocacy then? On Linux no less. 😉

I imagine GIMP would be really nifty if I wanted to use it bad enough to actually learn to do stuff with it. I remember that the ‘remove the redeye’ instructions took 3 pages and still didn’t work 🙁

Portunately we Friends of the Penguin have Picasa. Doesn’t do everything that even PS Elements does, but it does what I need.


Cheers,
Bev
*******************************************
My computer doesn’t have to be friendly;
civil is entirely sufficient.
NJ
Neil Jones
Dec 28, 2008
Hans Dull wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

[…]
I can recommend GIMP 2.6.3 – It has everything an amateur photographer needs and it runs on Linux as well as on any Windows (The CPU should be fast allready for both, Gimp or (PS) Photoshop). In my opinon, PS Elements has lower funtionality than Gimp, wich has lower functionality than Photoshop CS. PS is a verry powerful Software which ist too powerful for an Amateur.

For now, I think I will stay with GIMP (to save some money).

Thank you everyone for giving me great ideas about which product would better suit my amateur skills.

Happy New Year and peace on earth everyone!

Regards,

NJ
JN
John Navas
Dec 28, 2008
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:08:02 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote in
<8uG5l.21519$>:

For now, I think I will stay with GIMP (to save some money).

$28 is too much?

Thanks for wasting our time.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
NJ
Neil Jones
Dec 28, 2008
John Navas wrote:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:08:02 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote in
<8uG5l.21519$>:

For now, I think I will stay with GIMP (to save some money).

$28 is too much?

Thanks for wasting our time.

There were sold out! I am keeping an eye out for them. Someone earlier suggested about Elements being shipped with Wacom Tablets. That version of Elements is sort of old. Hopefully in February/March it will be a Tablet + CS3.

Cheers,

NJ
JN
John Navas
Dec 28, 2008
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:18:56 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote in
<4yO5l.49330$>:

John Navas wrote:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:08:02 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote in
<8uG5l.21519$>:

For now, I think I will stay with GIMP (to save some money).

$28 is too much?

Thanks for wasting our time.

There were sold out!

Sorry. There were 5 left when I posted the link.

I am keeping an eye out for them.

v6 @ $39:
< http://www.consumerdepot.com/products.asp?id=883919135885R&a mp;referer=google>

v5 @ $29 (10 in stock):
< http://www.pricegrabber.com/user_sales_getprod.php?masterid= 27260624&lot_id=4234317>

v4 @ $9 (150 in stock):
< http://www.pricegrabber.com/user_sales_getprod.php?masterid= 12128413&lot_id=4129762>


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
TC
tony cooper
Dec 28, 2008
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:18:56 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote:

John Navas wrote:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:08:02 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote in
<8uG5l.21519$>:

For now, I think I will stay with GIMP (to save some money).

$28 is too much?

Thanks for wasting our time.

There were sold out! I am keeping an eye out for them. Someone earlier suggested about Elements being shipped with Wacom Tablets. That version of Elements is sort of old. Hopefully in February/March it will be a Tablet + CS3.

I just got my Wacom Bamboo Fun tablet. The bundled software includes Elements 5.0, Corel Painter, and Nik Color Efex Pro 2.0. $87 from BuyDig. I already have Elements 5.0, but I like the Nik program. I tried the Wacom Bamboo on a very detailed masking project in Photoshop, and it works a treat.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
LL
Leo Lichtman
Dec 28, 2008
"John Navas" wrote: $28 is too much?
Thanks for wasting our time. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think you’re being a little harsh, John. The posters to this thread were not only responding to the OP, but also exchanging ideas among themselves. I think many questions raised in such newsgroups, and this is a good example, are informative to many others–they provide answers to questions that many did not know how to ask.
NJ
Neil Jones
Dec 29, 2008
Leo Lichtman wrote:
"John Navas" wrote: $28 is too much?
Thanks for wasting our time. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think you’re being a little harsh, John. The posters to this thread were not only responding to the OP, but also exchanging ideas among themselves. I think many questions raised in such newsgroups, and this is a good example, are informative to many others–they provide answers to questions that many did not know how to ask.

Thanks for pointing this out. To John’s credit who participated in a seperate thread, I ended up buying a Panasonic Lumix FZ28S which I love. The pictures that I get from this camera are amazing. Suddenly, I decided to get more creative and started exploring Photoshop products. Ultimately, since I am the "Decider" 😉 I have to be careful about pocket busting software products. Even if it only costs $28. The hidden expense from jumping into new software is the learning curve and the time sink that is created. Lot of people don’t realize the time sink in software products.

My .02 cents.

Thank you for the suggestions though.

PS – BTW, John you are really good at searching products at discount sites which I never knew existed!

Cheers,

NJ
RA
Randall Ainsworth
Dec 29, 2008
In article , John Navas
wrote:

Thanks for wasting our time.

You’re the master in that department.
RA
Randall Ainsworth
Dec 29, 2008
In article <N4Q5l.7541$>, Leo Lichtman
wrote:

"John Navas" wrote: $28 is too much?
Thanks for wasting our time. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think you’re being a little harsh, John. The posters to this thread were not only responding to the OP, but also exchanging ideas among themselves. I think many questions raised in such newsgroups, and this is a good example, are informative to many others–they provide answers to questions that many did not know how to ask.

Navas is a know tard.
RA
Randall Ainsworth
Dec 29, 2008
In article <xdW5l.40014$>, Neil Jones
wrote:

Thanks for pointing this out. To John’s credit who participated in a seperate thread, I ended up buying a Panasonic Lumix FZ28S which I love. The pictures that I get from this camera are amazing. Suddenly, I decided to get more creative and started exploring Photoshop products. Ultimately, since I am the "Decider" 😉 I have to be careful about pocket busting software products. Even if it only costs $28. The hidden expense from jumping into new software is the learning curve and the time sink that is created. Lot of people don’t realize the time sink in software products.

My .02 cents.

Thank you for the suggestions though.

PS – BTW, John you are really good at searching products at discount sites which I never knew existed!

He’s a moron who knows little about photography (and his images prove it).
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 29, 2008
KatWoman wrote:

I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it’s easier to see just what to do.

Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques

That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular" doesn’t mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you’ll find lots of people willing to discuss it with you… doesn’t mean most of them have any idea what they’re talking about.
JN
John Navas
Dec 29, 2008
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gja521$mn0$>:

KatWoman wrote:

I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it’s easier to see just what to do.

Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques

That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular" doesn’t mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you’ll find lots of people willing to discuss it with you… doesn’t mean most of them have any idea what they’re talking about.

I’ve personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience with books has all too often been worse.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 29, 2008
John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gja521$mn0$>:

KatWoman wrote:

I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it’s easier to see just what to do.
Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques
That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular" doesn’t mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you’ll find lots of people willing to discuss it with you… doesn’t mean most of them have any idea what they’re talking about.

I’ve personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience with books has all too often been worse.

YOU have… some n00b who plugs "photoshop tutorial" into a YouTube search, though… maybe not so much.
JN
John Navas
Dec 29, 2008
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:05:03 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gjasgd$7bp$>:

John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gja521$mn0$>:

KatWoman wrote:

I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it’s easier to see just what to do.
Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques
That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular" doesn’t mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you’ll find lots of people willing to discuss it with you… doesn’t mean most of them have any idea what they’re talking about.

I’ve personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience with books has all too often been worse.

YOU have… some n00b who plugs "photoshop tutorial" into a YouTube search, though… maybe not so much.

All I can say is that newbies I’ve referred to YouTube have learned much, and without any real problems.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
SH
Stephen Henning
Dec 29, 2008
BillGarrens wrote:

In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to "intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none the wiser. Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for the best software available.

Professionals are very intelligent and support those products that support them. They usually know one of the developers on a first name basis and help guide the product toward their specific use. Professionals use products that were there for them from day one and stay there for them. For example, if you go to a major media event, the major suppliers for professional photographers have support people there to help the professional photographers.

In the US, Nikon has been the most common professional system because Nikon has a major presence at all major media events. In Japan, Canon is the most common professional system for the same reason there.

There have been a lot of great programs but where are they now? Programs like SuperPaint. Photoshop has been the standard by which all other programs are judged since day one. If photoshop won’t do something, there is a Photoshop plugin that will. It gets very expensive to buy Photoshop and all of the Plugins, but if you are truly a professional, you can’t afford to not use them. Most Plugins are a way to buy time. And if you are a professional, your time is worth money.


Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA – http://rhodyman.net
JN
John Navas
Dec 29, 2008
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:03:07 -0500, Neil Jones
wrote in
<xdW5l.40014$>:

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"John Navas" wrote: $28 is too much?
Thanks for wasting our time. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think you’re being a little harsh, John.

It does sound harsher than I intended on re-reading — my apologies — but it still seems to me that in fairness to responders it should have been made more clear at the beginning of the long thread that this was little more than idle curiosity.

The posters to this thread were
not only responding to the OP, but also exchanging ideas among themselves.

That’s a nice way to put it. LOL

I think many questions raised in such newsgroups, and this is a good example, are informative to many others–they provide answers to questions that many did not know how to ask.

There was certainly value to some, but to others it was a waste of time.

Thanks for pointing this out. To John’s credit who participated in a seperate thread, I ended up buying a Panasonic Lumix FZ28S which I love.

Good for you — great camera!

The pictures that I get from this camera are amazing. Suddenly, I decided to get more creative and started exploring Photoshop products. Ultimately, since I am the "Decider" 😉 I have to be careful about pocket busting software products. Even if it only costs $28. The hidden expense from jumping into new software is the learning curve and the time sink that is created. Lot of people don’t realize the time sink in software products.
My .02 cents.
Thank you for the suggestions though.

I’m afraid I can’t follow that logic — it’s dirt cheap and easy to learn and use; you spent many times that time and money on the camera; and you presumably need image processing software, so how could it be a real obstacle? Regardless, I think that should have been made clear at the beginning as a matter of respect to those you are asking to help you.

PS – BTW, John you are really good at searching products at discount sites which I never knew existed!

Thanks. Glad it worked out.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
JN
John Navas
Dec 29, 2008
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:48:34 -0500, Stephen Henning
wrote in :

BillGarrens wrote:

In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to "intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none the wiser. Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for the best software available.

Professionals are very intelligent and support those products that support them. They usually know one of the developers on a first name basis and help guide the product toward their specific use. Professionals use products that were there for them from day one and stay there for them. For example, if you go to a major media event, the major suppliers for professional photographers have support people there to help the professional photographers.

In the US, Nikon has been the most common professional system because Nikon has a major presence at all major media events. In Japan, Canon is the most common professional system for the same reason there.

Canon dominates pro sports photography in the USA — note all those "white" lenses on the sidelines.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
MI
Matt Ion
Dec 29, 2008
John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:05:03 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gjasgd$7bp$>:

John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gja521$mn0$>:

KatWoman wrote:

I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it’s easier to see just what to do.
Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques
That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular" doesn’t mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you’ll find lots of people willing to discuss it with you… doesn’t mean most of them have any idea what they’re talking about.
I’ve personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience with books has all too often been worse.
YOU have… some n00b who plugs "photoshop tutorial" into a YouTube search, though… maybe not so much.

All I can say is that newbies I’ve referred to YouTube have learned much, and without any real problems.

Yes, but you’re probably referring them to videos that you’ve already vetted. The original point quoted above was not that people have problems learning from the videos, but that many of the videos they’ll stumble across are teaching poor techniques.

So now that person learns poor techniques, hacks together a few of his own, creates his own video to teach those to others… and around it goes.

It’s like someone being taught to drive by an uncle who has a stack of moving violations as tall as he is… yeah, he’ll still learn to drive, but he’s gonna pick up some bad habits and wrong ideas in the process.
JN
John Navas
Dec 29, 2008
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:14:59 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gjbeli$fa9$>:

John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:05:03 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gjasgd$7bp$>:

John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gja521$mn0$>:

KatWoman wrote:

I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it’s easier to see just what to do.
Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques
That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular" doesn’t mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you’ll find lots of people willing to discuss it with you… doesn’t mean most of them have any idea what they’re talking about.
I’ve personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience with books has all too often been worse.
YOU have… some n00b who plugs "photoshop tutorial" into a YouTube search, though… maybe not so much.

All I can say is that newbies I’ve referred to YouTube have learned much, and without any real problems.

Yes, but you’re probably referring them to videos that you’ve already vetted. The original point quoted above was not that people have problems learning from the videos, but that many of the videos they’ll stumble across are teaching poor techniques.

Examples please.


Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year, John
GA
Glen Atwater
Dec 30, 2008
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:14:59 -0800, Matt Ion wrote:

John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:05:03 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gjasgd$7bp$>:

John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion wrote
in <gja521$mn0$>:

KatWoman wrote:

I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it’s easier to see just what to do.
Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques
That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular" doesn’t mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you’ll find lots of people willing to discuss it with you… doesn’t mean most of them have any idea what they’re talking about.
I’ve personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience with books has all too often been worse.
YOU have… some n00b who plugs "photoshop tutorial" into a YouTube search, though… maybe not so much.

All I can say is that newbies I’ve referred to YouTube have learned much, and without any real problems.

Yes, but you’re probably referring them to videos that you’ve already vetted. The original point quoted above was not that people have problems learning from the videos, but that many of the videos they’ll stumble across are teaching poor techniques.

So now that person learns poor techniques, hacks together a few of his own, creates his own video to teach those to others… and around it goes.
It’s like someone being taught to drive by an uncle who has a stack of moving violations as tall as he is… yeah, he’ll still learn to drive, but he’s gonna pick up some bad habits and wrong ideas in the process.

This is true of any learning experience. I have downloaded quite a few pirated photography books. I wanted to see what is being "taught" out there in contemporary photography books on the store shelves. They only pirate and upload the most expensive and comprehensive ones, making it worth the pirate’s effort. I deleted them all after reading through them. I wouldn’t want anyone that I know to learn from those authors. The authors were wrong 90% of the time on all subjects they covered. I guess if they can’t sell their photography then they write books on how to do photography, finally making use of all their unmarketable "example" photos. If they can’t sell their photos as a photographer, apart from putting them in "how to" books, then there’s a good reason it shouldn’t be in a book on teaching photography either.

"Those who can’t, teach."

This is probably why I also find the very best editing software. I don’t depend on others to teach me how to use any software. I’m not stuck in a last century software-rut just because everyone else uses the same outdated thing. I’m willing to try any new editor that comes along. Many of them easily surpass what is "popular" or considered "best" by all others. (I’d share my list of new favorites but … it’s more fun watching all these online amateurs wallow in what they think is still "best".)

Those who learn best and know best are those who have the capability to explore on their own and teach themselves. In the creative arts you don’t hone your creativity by mindlessly aping others.

"Learning creativity from others" is about as oxymoronic as it gets.
R
Randal-T
Dec 30, 2008
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:48:34 -0500, Stephen Henning wrote:

BillGarrens wrote:

In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to "intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none the wiser. Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for the best software available.

Professionals are very intelligent and support those products that support them. They usually know one of the developers on a first name basis and help guide the product toward their specific use. Professionals use products that were there for them from day one and stay there for them. For example, if you go to a major media event, the major suppliers for professional photographers have support people there to help the professional photographers.

In the US, Nikon has been the most common professional system because Nikon has a major presence at all major media events. In Japan, Canon is the most common professional system for the same reason there.
There have been a lot of great programs but where are they now? Programs like SuperPaint. Photoshop has been the standard by which all other programs are judged since day one. If photoshop won’t do something, there is a Photoshop plugin that will. It gets very expensive to buy Photoshop and all of the Plugins, but if you are truly a professional, you can’t afford to not use them. Most Plugins are a way to buy time. And if you are a professional, your time is worth money.

I don’t think I’ve ever read a bigger crock of nonsense conveyed in so few words before.
FT
Foto Trix
Jan 28, 2009
Yup, try GIMP before you rush out and pay, it may do everything you want and more. It’s basically a clone of Photoshop 6.
Go to http://www.GIMP.org

——————-
http://www.FotoTrix.com (Photo Tricks)
AS
Axel Siebenwirth
Jan 29, 2009
In article
,
Foto Trix wrote:

Yup, try GIMP before you rush out and pay, it may do everything you want and more. It’s basically a clone of Photoshop 6.

photoshop 6 is about ten years old. nothing like being on the cutting edge.
TR
The Real Bev
Feb 1, 2009
nospam wrote:

In article
,
Foto Trix wrote:

Yup, try GIMP before you rush out and pay, it may do everything you want and more. It’s basically a clone of Photoshop 6.

photoshop 6 is about ten years old. nothing like being on the cutting edge.

Just depends on what you need. For many, Picasa (from google, free and very easy) is overkill.


Cheers, Bev
*****************************************************
Nothing is so stupid that you can’t find somebody who
did it at least once if you look hard enough.
BW
Bob Williams
Feb 1, 2009
Neil Jones wrote:
harikeo wrote:
harikeo wrote:
Neil Jones wrote:
Always Has An Opinion wrote:
Go cheap. Photoshop CS2 (if you can find it) or CS3 will be sufficient. There’s a ton of plugins which make things easier, but I’ve never needed them. I’ve retouched photos, created 3D art and much more with just the basic package.

You can find a lot of tutorials on YouTube as well.

Great idea! I went to Amazon and looked up for CS3 but found that it costs as much as CS4 (even in the used section). They were listed at $649 (USD). Some of the craigslist sellers listed it for $100 to $150. I don’t know if these are bootlegged packed with trojans in them. I am suspicious because of the price difference between the new version and used version.

What are some good sources to buy cheap/used software like CS3?
Thank you once again.

NJ
Howabout Photoshop Elements 7 unless you want/need the full-blown PS CSx?
<mind the rap on the earl>

http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-65026616-Photoshop-Elements-7/dp /B001DMBWXS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1 230128042&sr=8-1
I forgot to mention Gimp 2 which is free http://www.gimp.org/

I do have GIMP 2 but haven’t done much with it. Photoshop seems to be have a big following and easier to get some help.

NJ

PS – My digital camera also comes with some software which most people (including myself) haven’t heard of before. The software seems to be ok but difficult to get any help.

If I were you, I would buy Photoshop Elements 7.
It has practically all of the features of full PS that a novice needs. In fact it is made for Novices. Whereas, full PS is made for Professionals. The look and feel of Elements and PS is very similar. So if, and when, you decide to go with full PS, the transition is painless.

You are right that one of the advantages of PS (or Elements) is that a lot of Help and Tutorials are available on the internet. Even So, I would purchase a self help book on the subject like "Classroom in a Book", by the Adobe Staff. Photo Editors, especially powerful and versatile ones are mystifying to the novice. It helps a lot to learn the jargon and how to use the editing TOOLS corectly. A good book will get you started on the right foot.
WARNING: Photo Editing can be addictive.
Bob Williams
CM
Chris Malcolm
Mar 23, 2010
In rec.photo.digital Matt Ion wrote:
KatWoman wrote:

I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it’s easier to see just what to do.

Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques

That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular" doesn’t mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you’ll find lots of people willing to discuss it with you… doesn’t mean most of them have any idea what they’re talking about.

Just like cameras 🙂


Chris Malcolm
D
David
Jun 21, 2011
In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.

Suggest you start off with that, and be sure to buy the book "Photoshop Elements 9 for Digital Photographers

I reckon those two will keep you busy for a year or more at least, and probably much much longer

David
P
Pablo
Jun 21, 2011
David escribió:

In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.

UFRaw + The Gimp will cost you nothing but are a tad harder to learn, I believe.


Pablo
TC
tony cooper
Jun 21, 2011
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:50:07 +1000, David
wrote:

In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.

Suggest you start off with that, and be sure to buy the book "Photoshop Elements 9 for Digital Photographers

I reckon those two will keep you busy for a year or more at least, and probably much much longer
Those of us who use Adobe Photoshop (full version), and have done so for years, will admit – if we are honest – that we only use half to two-thirds of the tools and techniques available. There are drop-downs we never open.

Adobe Elements now has almost all of the tools we routinely use in the full version. The problem has been that there has always been a lag between what is offered in the full version and what is offered in Elements. All the new toys (think "content aware") are in the full version, and Elements gets them a few years later.

However, unless you are going to use the program for professional reasons, I think Adobe Elements is the best choice for the photographer’s first foray into advanced post-processing. "Advanced" in that the basic post work can be done in IrfanView or any number of free, basic programs.


Tony Cooper – Orlando, Florida
R
ray
Jun 21, 2011
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:50:07 +1000, David wrote:

In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.

Suggest you start off with that, and be sure to buy the book "Photoshop Elements 9 for Digital Photographers

I reckon those two will keep you busy for a year or more at least, and probably much much longer

David

Second the suggestion to try GIMP (and UFRAW if you’re doing raw conversions) before you buy photoshop. You may very well find that they will do all you need – at least for some time. Won’t cost you a penny to try them – won’t even cost a penny if you decide to use them forever.

plugins are additional applications to add more capabilities or make various processes easier to apply. At least in the case of GIMP, they won’t cost you anything either.
DD
David Dyer-Bennet
Jun 21, 2011
On Jun 21, 9:25 am, tony cooper wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:50:07 +1000, David
wrote:

In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures.  For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc.  The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos.  It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost..  They have tons of products with varying price ranges.  What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos?  What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins?  Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.

Suggest you start off with that, and be sure to buy the book "Photoshop Elements 9 for Digital Photographers

I reckon those two will keep you busy for a year or more at least, and probably much much longer

Those of us who use Adobe Photoshop (full version), and have done so for years, will admit – if we are honest – that we only use half to two-thirds of the tools and techniques available.  There are drop-downs we never open.

That’s true. I haven’t touched "levels" in years, for example. And the font tools have nothing to do with photography.

But it’s a different set for each of us; and most serious users use a bunch of things that aren’t in Elements or the Gimp, I’m afraid.

At least that was true in the past; which is how I ended up being a Photoshop user (I’ve used Corel Photo Paint,
Paint Shop Pro, The Gimp, and Picture Window Pro,
but at this point Photoshop has displaced all of
those. I use Bibble Pro for batch processing larger
sets of photos.)

For me, adjustment layers, and 16-bit adjustment
layers at that, were the killer ap. I really like the
lossless editing approach, and those (with layer
masks) are the thing that really make it possible.
This is, if anything, MORE important to a
beginner — the ability to rethink some earlier
choices without throwing out all the work since is
more valuable while you’re learning.

I believe adjustment layers has made it into Elements
now. Not sure if handles 16-bit yet. If I were starting today, that might be just the thing.

Looks like the Gimp developers keep talking
about adjustment layers, but haven’t done
anything about them yet (at least haven’t
released anything yet).
AB
Alan Browne
Jun 21, 2011
On 2011-06-21 00:50 , David wrote:
In article<eoq4l.1243$>,
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Photoshop Elements will cover you well.

You can download and try it for free for a month.

Ignore The GIMP. Seductive pricing for software worth the price.


gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.
TR
The Real Bev
Jun 21, 2011
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

If you have a gmail account, you might want to try picasa. It’s free, it does most basic things really well, and you get a 1-GB website to post them for each gmail account. I’d like more ‘straightening’ capability, but I’m unwilling to feed photos through gimp in order to get it.

I normally upload photos from my SD card to my computer, and then copy all the untouched originals to a separate subdirectory. Easy peasy!

Give it a shot, it might do everything you want.


Cheers, Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why should I be tarred with the epithet "loony" merely because I have a pet halibut? –Monty Python
P
Pablo
Jun 21, 2011
Alan Browne escribió:

Ignore The GIMP.

Is that it? Or do you have something intelligent to add?


Pablo
AB
Alan Browne
Jun 21, 2011
On 2011-06-21 13:25 , Pablo wrote:
Alan Browne escribió:

Ignore The GIMP.

Is that it? Or do you have something intelligent to add?

What you removed from my post recommending Elements was the intelligent part.

I’m sorry if someone saying the GIMP is useless and causes you to write emotionally induced ad hominem attacks. But that’s your problem, not mine.

The GIMP lags Photoshop. Always. Is just not worth the hassle.

One example I often bring up: Preview of Unsharp Mask in the GIMP is useless for fine tuning edge sharpness. It is done properly in Photoshop (Elements or CS5) as you can see the effect in large areas of your image immediately. Unlike the tunnel vision silliness of the GIMP.

The GIMP, to open a raw is at least twice as long as Photoshop and then it has the most gawd-awful raw conversion control pane in GUI-hood.

The GIMP sucks and that’s all there is to it.

Nothing emotional in that. I don’t attack GIMP users over it. I just tell people to avoid the GIMP.


gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.
GK
George Kerby
Jun 21, 2011
On 6/21/11 12:25 PM, in article , "Pablo"
wrote:

Alan Browne escribió:

Ignore The GIMP.

Is that it? Or do you have something intelligent to add?

You do know you are asking for a Miracle?
S
sid
Jun 21, 2011
Alan Browne wrote:

Ignore The GIMP. Seductive pricing for software worth the price.

Trying to justify to yourself the ridiculous price that you’ll pay for software that is no more capable for 99% of users than the free alternatives again, eh Alan.


sid
RLU 300284
2010.2
AB
Alan Browne
Jun 21, 2011
On 2011-06-21 17:39 , sid wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:

Ignore The GIMP. Seductive pricing for software worth the price.

Trying to justify to yourself the ridiculous price that you’ll pay for software that is no more capable for 99% of users than the free alternatives again, eh Alan.


gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.
AS
Axel Siebenwirth
Jun 21, 2011
In article , sid
wrote:

Ignore The GIMP. Seductive pricing for software worth the price.

Trying to justify to yourself the ridiculous price that you’ll pay for software that is no more capable for 99% of users than the free alternatives again, eh Alan.

what ridiculous price? photoshop elements is about $50-60 and it does more than the gimp does, and a lot faster too.
FG
Fair Go
Jun 22, 2011
On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:32:20 +0200, Pablo wrote:

David escribió:

In article <eoq4l.1243$>,
Neil Jones wrote:

Hi,

I am amateur photographer, only up to the point of taking pictures. For the pictures I shoot, I do not process the pictures or enhance them with touch ups etc. The pictures that turn out good are printed and the rest are saved.

I am planning to purchase Photoshop to enhance the photos. It appears that Photoshop has a religious following in the photo processing area. To tell the truth, when I went to the Adobe site I was completely lost. They have tons of products with varying price ranges. What Photoshop version(s) are used by the community at large to process and enhance photos? What would be the price range?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Happy Holidays!

NJ

PS – What are plugins? Do you need to buy them separately from Photoshop?

You might find that Photoshop Elements will do just about everything you want, and its about a thousand dollars cheaper.

UFRaw + The Gimp will cost you nothing but are a tad harder to learn, I believe.

I’m using Elements8 and loving it. I am sure I am only using 5% of what it can do but I’m prepared to grow into it.

How to Master Sharpening in Photoshop

Give your photos a professional finish with sharpening in Photoshop. Learn to enhance details, create contrast, and prepare your images for print, web, and social media.

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