I’ve set my brush cursors to show full size. The cursor displays correctly for brush sizes up to about 150 px. Beyond 150 px, the circle representing the brush size gets truncated: at 170 px, it’s down to a half-circle, at 200 px it’s down to one-third of a circle, and at 300 px all that remains is a small curved line segment.
That’s annoying – does it do it to custom brushes too?
Yes. It’s an issue with how the brush "texture" overlay does not work within a given memory tile. You can also see white fringes on the cursors on systems that show this behavior, as obviously it also affects transparency blending. Maybe some day a patch will give us back the option to do this properly on all cards… *sigh*
Has everyone else seeing this issue updated their display drivers? Please do so, and then post if it solved the problem or not – and post what specific video card you’re using. Thanks!
Hi Tina. I upgraded my Master Suite last evening and have the broken cursor issue. I’m running the newest Nvidia driver (178.26) on a Quadro FX 4600. Are there any particular settings / profiles that should be adjusted within the driver control panel to remedy this? The issue makes it pretty difficult to use the software.
Brush Cursors are clipped when larger than 64px. This is one of the known issues with CS4 using the GPU reported by Adobe. They will likely fix it in the 1st patch. Regards, MM
That’s rubbish i.e.clipping – my brushes never really go below 150 pixels – I will be really annoyed if I see this issue with my 8800gts 640mb card and cs4.
chris farrell:That’s rubbish i.e.clipping – my brushes never really go below 150 pixels – I will be really annoyed if I see this issue with my 8800gts 640mb card and cs4.
Just a data point. I do NOT have the clipping problem in either 32bit or 64 bit PS CS4 on my system: Vista Ultimate 64, , 8GB RAM, nVidia 9800GTX+ with 178.24 drivers, 2 SamSung SyncMaster 225BW monitors.
Now that`s funny, that problem is even visible in nvidia`s own presentation at: <http://www.nvidia.com/object/adobe_photoshop.html> Go to "brush rezising" there. If you look carefully at that video you can see that the brush circle is only half visible when it is big!
I too am having this problem with the cursor beginning to disappear around 200 px. I’ve finished downloading and installing an updated nVidia driver to no effect.
This problem occurs whether Open GL is enabled or not.
I’m running Windows XP and did not have this problem with CS3 or any prior version of Photoshop.
By the way, I wanted to emphasize that the larger the cursor gets, the more of it disappears, to the point that you’re only seeing a sliver of it – which makes it pretty much UNUSABLE because you can’t see where you’re drawing.
But… it’s a laptop, and not a real popular one, with built-in video.
I suspect it will be far easier and quicker to buy a new laptop than to get nVidia to fix the problem.
Meanwhile, CS3 and all prior versions of Photoshop did not exhibit this behavior. Is there no way that Adobe could fix the problem instead???????????????
Has Adobe just cost me the use of my laptop for editing???
I suspect it will be far easier and quicker to buy a new laptop than to get nVidia to fix the problem.
you’d be surprised at how bad those guys want to stay on top of reported bugs. there’s a great rivalry between them and ati. both take bug reports VERY seriously and act quickly on them.
Is there no way that Adobe could fix the problem instead?
not if it’s nvidia’s problem. and if chris says it is, it most likely is.
I wouldn’t doubt that there might be a bug in the nVidia driver. But Chris’ recommendation aside, it would be CS4 that "turned on" this feature that CS3 never needed to use.
Some important points (from my posts) to remember:
1) This "bug" appears regardless of whether I enable acceleration in CS4. (which means CS4 even without acceleration turned on is doing something different from what CS3, CS2, CS or any of the other prior versions did)
2) I have already upgraded to the latest nVidia driver (well, the latest I could find, it is from August 2008).
My biggest problem is that the last time I contacted nVidia they told me that they don’t support my laptop and that I have to go to the laptop manufacturer.
Indeed, if you look on nVidia’s website, my video is _NOT_ listed on their website (GeForce Go 7700). The only way I was able to find a driver at all was by scouring the internet and finding a third party that was hosting it.
So the chances of nVidia doing something about it? I’d say are nil.
In the mean time, I have a broken cursor for anything other than editing small details. From my perspective, I have a broken CS4.
My biggest problem is that the last time I contacted nVidia they told me that they don’t support my laptop and that I have to go to the laptop manufacturer.
My biggest problem is that the last time I contacted nVidia they told me that they don’t support my laptop and that I have to go to the laptop manufacturer
This is in fact a major concern with laptops. I have an hp laptop, and it will not accept nVidia’s driver for the 8600 GS. It has to come from hp, and the latest hp driver is about 6 months old. And this is a top-of-the-line machine that I bought only a year ago.
I installed CS4 Design Standard on my Vista 64 desktop yesterday, and in so doing I checked for nVidia updates for my 8500 GT. Guess what? The latest update came only a week or so ago.
Obviously, running Photoshop on desktops and laptops can be two very different things from now on. It’s probably time to start pestering the laptop manufacturers.
PS BTW – haven’t had time to use CS4 much yet, but so far it seems great. No problems yet.
It’s not a matter of believing Chris in saying nVidia has a bug. I’m not disputing that.
I _AM_ saying that CS3, CS2, CS and all other versions of Photoshop have used a DIFFERENT METHOD OF DISPLAYING THE CURSOR which functioned without exhibiting this bug.
THAT METHOD could be "turned back on" as an option in the same way that enabling (or not) acceleration is provided as an option.
(I didn’t think what I was saying was that hard to understand, but I’m hoping the caps will provide sufficient emphasis without making it sound like I’m screaming)
And to reiterate … this bug was apparent on my laptop (using CS4) BEFORE downloading the third party driver. It continues to manifest itself even after an Augst 31st 2008 release of the nVidia driver. The one and only reason I installed this third party driver was an attempt to solve the CS4 cursor problem.
Again, from my perspective: It is a CS4 cursor problem (no other application on my laptop is exhibiting this behavior and CS3 continues to function without a problem, but I paid good money for CS4 and would like to use it).
Yes, CS4 uses a different bit of code for displaying the cursor. Normally that code is more stable, faster, has less lag, etc. than the old code. But it does expose bugs in some video card drivers. No, the old code cannot be "turned back on", it’s far from that simple.
This is just a video card driver bug exposed by us using different APIs. Adobe cannot fix that, only the video card maker can fix that.
I’m using a 512MB ATI Radeon 1950XT graphics card and I get that strange cursor thing with larger cursor sizes. I haven’t updated my driver since receiving my new PC 18 months ago. I don’t know if it’s got Open GL compatibility or not, never mind how to switch it on!
Laptop has an nVidia graphics chip, but I haven’t tried that with a large cursor yet.
On my XP Pro SP3/ NVidia 8800GTX system with the latest 178.24 driver, the brush cursor is limited to 2500px maximum.
On the primary monitor the full circumference is displayed OK, but on the secondary the brush cursor reduces to the upper left quadrant above 300px and shrinks as the cursor size increases until it is gone above 2000px.
Luckily I never need such a big cursor nor work on the secondary, but the bug is definitely there.
In case it is relevant, I am running 2x1280x1024x32bit with the primary on the right and secondary on the left.
"…I’m using a 512MB ATI Radeon 1950XT graphics card and I get that strange cursor thing with larger cursor sizes. I haven’t updated my driver since receiving my new PC 18 months ago. I don’t know if it’s got Open GL compatibility or not, never mind how to switch it on!
Joanne:
I’m using the same graphics card without any problems. However, I went to the ATI site and downloaded/installed the latest driver (dated 11th October 2008) which I would strongly recommend as something you should do…
Cheers Anthony. Is my graphics card compatible with that Open GL thing? I haven’t updated a graphics driver for ages, correct me if I’m wrong:
Download the new driver. Uninstall the old one via add/remove programs. Restart the computer. Install the new driver.
I do have the problem that my PC doesn’t display the start-up screens when connected via DVI. I have never managed to find out how to sort it, just that’s it is caused by a vBios issue.
If I don’t fully understand what I’m doing, I tend to leave well alone and avoid digging a bigger hole for myself.
I definitely need to update my display driver. With the GPU thing enabled, doing certain things causes the display to go black and the computer spontaneously reboots itself.
I’ve disabled the GPU acceleration until I get the new driver installed. It’s downloaded, just need to confirm the sequence for uninstalling the ATI software components and reinstalling the new version.
Well, I updated my graphics driver for my ATI Radeon 1950XT and now, the PC freezes up but doesn’t restart spontaneously. I think it’s time to find a new graphics card.
Which one do you folks works best on XP SP3? Who has the least problems?
I can’t display VGA screens while connected via DVI either. I have submitted a ticket to ATI, but I’m not holding my breath. Until now, apart from no start-up screens, I was okay.
David – no, the registry setting does not solve the cursor problem. It is a temporary patch for some people with some drivers – and it is risky because it tells Photoshop to use features even if your video card says it does not support all the necessary features. That means that the driver may crash or show other artifacts when using that registry key.
The video card driver still needs to fix the bug causing the cursor problems.
I’m having the same trouble.. Running on an NVIDIA Quadro NVS 290. Seems like the problem is only on NVIDIA cards. Has anyone had any luck getting this problem fixed? I hope it gets fixed ASAP, because right now my CS4 is basically unusable… a brush tool without a cursor is worthless.
The most often heard reply in this forum is to update your video driver.
If you have as much trouble as I did (seems my laptop’s video is not supported – even by nVidia!), then email me and I’ll put you in touch with the person that gave me the registry setting that fixed the cursor for me. (I don’t want to post it publicly because they probably want more control over the issue, but I can at least put you in touch with him)
update.. i installed not the performance drivers, but the standard video card drivers for the Quadro NVS 290 (178.26_quadro_winxp2k_english_whql.exe) and it works fine now!
Seen that both nvidia and my laptop manufacturer didn’t release an updated version for my graphic card (8600M GT), solving this issue was really hard but seems like i found the way thanks to this website <http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/> It has all the specific drivers for all laptop graphic cards, just look in the list of the cards supported for each driver version. Hope this can help, cheers
To all who have had/have problems with incomplete cursor, I’m yet another joining the ranks. I have a Dell M1730 laptop with Nvidia 8800GTX GPU SLI, 4 GB ram, 2 x 200 GB storage in Raid ) configuration. I have tried all Nvidia drivers from 169.04 through 180.43. My base driver is 178.24 (recent). I also have a 24" LG monitor connected via dual link DVI-D cable running on idenpendent configuration (when forces SLI to be disabled). Both laptop and external monitor are running at 1920 x 1200 resolution.
I have run all programs on CS4 Designer Premium and they all work great. No problema with the cursor at all sizes. All GPU related goodies appear to work fine.
However, when I switch the screen to the LG 2452T screen (using the laptop to hold the pallets, I have a problem with the incomplete cursor. Yet all other GPU-related functions work every bit as well as when I use the laptop screen (with pallets on the LG 2452T).
Hopefully, when Nvidia releases their final version of their Big Bang II drivers (expected around the 17th of November), we may have a solution. These drivers are expected to run dual monitors on SLI. Until then, I use Photoshop CS4 on the laptop and drag the pallets over to the 24" monitor. This will work until either the driver issue is fixed or I go blind.
Almost forgot. I also use a Wacom Intuos 3 with no problems.
Just wanted to add that I’m having the incomplete cursor problem too, on my second (Cintiq) and third monitor only. The primary monitor works fine, but since I paint on my Cintiq it sucks. I’m on XP. Changing the Cintiq to primary via the display function doesn’t help. Lowering the Hardware Acceleration does work, but I don’t want to do that just for PS CS4!
I have a Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT and had the up-to-date driver version 178.24, which didn’t help. So updated to the beta 180.43(dated 23/10/08) which still doesn’t help.
Anyway I’ll report it to Nvidia, so I hope they do a fix on the beta but I’m not holding my breath.
hmmm… I contacted Nvidia about this problem and they said "…there is no such known issue with the Adobe Photoshop CS4 and with the updated driver release".
This doesn’t fill me with confidence that this issue will be fixed.
I’m up to a 180.44 on 8800M GTX with no resolution to problem. Nvidia gave me the same "no known issue."
Dell laptop users are hurting here because, we must rely on 3rd party driver modders to get the "latest drivers." Since Nvidia won’t release mobile versions directly for Dell machines, we must rely on Dell. The last Dell driver for the M1730 laptop with an 8800M GTX SLI was in February. The 8700M SLI driver is over a year old now.
So, I if Adobe can’t help us, as F Sansom suggested, we may be waiting for the 12th of Never to get this reslolved.
Hello, so this is really bad, I have installed my CS4 yesterday and discovered the brush cursor problem – ok I have installed newest driver for my ASUS 8800 GTS and – yeah, cursor is OK- BUT –> all of my OTF fonts stoped working – this is another problem that I have googled earlier – not only my problem. I must use older drivers or my OTF fonts not work. So – What now?
Sorry but after all those serious problems, why ADOBE not try to cooperate with Nvidia when they are making their new software, or just chek it before release?
I to have this CURSOR BUG, what a pain. Nvidia 7950GX2. I have tried up dating (178.24) and end up with artifacts on the screen. You cannot manage without a cursor size, so have resorted to my old copy of CS3 and wind the computer back to a previous date. Adobe take note what a shame for users like me to not be able to use the new stuff. Why not work with Nvidia and sort the problem out??? I have been unable to complain to them, as their site is not user friendly, and I think it would be easier to contact the Mars probe. PLEASE HELP. Vic
I am having the same problem with the cursor, and had for about the last half of the beta cycle. I am running an NVIDIA Quadro FX 3540 with the very latest drivers (Oct 11, 2008).
In addition, I cannot enable OpenGL as this card is apparently ‘not supported’. I haven’t yet tried the dangerous "older video card" registry hack; my card isn’t really that old and I’ve been nervous about trying it.
AND … I have the (apparently common) problem of the install failing when installing the English Language Pack part of PS 32-bit, so I cannot use that program (and my old filters) either. My only option seems to be to uninstall and re-install the *entire* web pro pack, as I have no option to uninstall and re-install 32-bit PS.
Kinda sad when lack of video card "acceleration" prevents you from using a photo editor. In any case, the older video card registry "hack" worked for me. I’m up and running with CS4 and quite happy with it now.
I have exactly the same issue with CS4. Drivers are up to date, but cursors on brushes, eraser, dodging and blurring all either go to a partial segment – eg a 45-60 degree arc – or freeze and refuse to resize or show themselves. Particularly irritating when resizing a brush, where Esc sometimes cures a freeze, but usually you have to reselect the tool.
It’s so nice to push things under the rug like that.
nVidia’s bug or not … Adobe has a way (via a registry setting) to "work around the bug" and it’s a shame that they would rather push it under the rug than help their customers out.
If it weren’t for the registry setting I would have asked for my money back from Adobe already because CS4 is basically broken on my laptop. And still, to this day, neither the laptop manufacturer nor nVidia have produced a fix.
Why let a little thing like this render a $699 package unusable when distributing the registry setting could potentially help the customer instead? Wouldn’t you rather have happy (instead of irritated) customers?
Nothing is being pushed under the rug. I’m telling you the facts. We’re trying to work with customers to find and fix these issues. We’ve been working with the video card makers for years to get these issues fixed — but it is up to them to deliver the updated drivers.
And I don’t know of any magic registry setting that can fix a broken video card driver. The most we can do is say "ignore all the errors and assume the video card works correctly, whether it really does or not" (allow old GPUs).
Again, we’re trying to help our customers. But we do not have details of the video card circuitry or programming, we do not have source code to the video card drivers, and we are not setup to certify and release video card drivers (Microsoft has interesting procedures and requirements).
If your video card maker has not yet fixed the bug – let them know, so they can address the bug in the model specific and OS version specific driver that you need.
nVidia does not directly support the video card in my laptop and my laptop manufacturer appears to not care either.
That meant my choice was either: return Photoshop CS4 as "broken" on my laptop, or buy a new laptop.
Luckily one of your engineers offered the registry setting to me before I succumbed to the "return CS4" choice.
If you don’t have access to the registry setting, I’d be happy to send it to you. Maybe you could offer it to others in this forum that are in the same boat I was in before they return the software.
What’s worked for some people is to try using the AllowOldGPUS_ON.reg key. To use it, download the zip archive from the above link and double click on that specific registry key – DO NOT use the other registry keys unless you feel confident that you can get things back to default settings. Using the AllowOldGPUS_ON.reg key will not disable anything in the application.
Once you’ve enabled the registry, quit and re-launch CS4.
This has helped some people who have reported this problem.
I just want to check… before trying the AllowOldGPUS_ON.reg … that if Nvidia do actually fix the driver that will correct this cursor problem, will using the AllowOldGPUS_OFF.reg reset the registry back to it how it was?
I just wanted to try out Photoshop CS4 and have to say that this behavior is quite odd. I understand that it is a fault of the graphic card drivers, but please also understand the many customers of Notebooks. Notebook graphic cards from NVidia do NEVER have direct support from the manufacturer, the only support we lads get is over our supplier of the notebook (be it Dell, HP or whatever).
These suppliers will NOT update our drivers specifically for our notebook/graphic card for only one program – that is the annoyance with notebook graphic cards. The only way is to use "hacked" drivers from third parties which might result in system failure.
———————————————— I would like to know what performance decrease I will have with the following settings, each making the cursor display WORK CORRECTLY:
Running Windows XP SP3 with a NVidia GeForce 8400M GS driver version 156.83 on a Dell Vostro 1400.
1. Go to Control Panel > Display Properties > Settings > Advanced > Troubleshoot and set Hardware acceleration to one step below full. It says "Disable cursor and bitmap accelerations". –> cursor display works My question: What does this do outside of Photoshop 1.1 I can enable Photoshop Settings > Performance > Enable OpenGL Drawing My question: Does is actually use the OpenGL drawing now or is it disabled?
2. Apply the Registry "fix" posted by Adam Jerugim AllowOldGPUS_ON.reg. (Windows hardware acceleration settings back to full hardware acceleration) Restart Photoshop –> cursor display works But here comes a problem: 2.1 I cannot enable OpenGL Drawing in Photoshop! Once I do that the cursor reverts back to the "clipping" behavior. ————————————————
Again: I KNOW this is a problem of the graphic card manufacturer (NVidia), I just think that either you should alert the customers on how to fix this behavior or think of a workaround. All users being stuck with mobile NVidia graphic cards (I guess that’s a lot) will probably NOT receive any updates for their drivers (e.g. official Dell drivers for my graphic card are from 07-12-2007).
And, therein lies the problem. Adobe engineers have made us rely on the competence of the various video card manufacturers to update their drivers so that CS4 will work.
Said engineers were lured into the trap of "Hey, this is cool, let’s make it happen!"
Unfortunately, they haven’t made it happen for a great many of us who bought the program. Yet, they blame it on the video card manufacturers.
If I could return this program, I would. Unfortunately for me, I tried to work it out with said engineers during my 30-day return period, which has expired.
After following this thread for a while, (and being a late-in-the-cycle CS3 user with an NVIDIA card), my curiosity got the better of me, so I installed the CS4 trial and encountered the incomplete cursor.
I’ve got the Quadro FX 570, and an update to driver version 6.14.11.7846 (11/05/08), which appears applicable to a number of other cards, fixed the cursor problem.
Aside from that, so far CS4 is a delight. Thanks to Chris and Adam for hanging in here. Chasing down emotionally charged issues like this can be a real balancing act, and no matter what anyone thinks about Adobe as a company, you guys are doing yourselves proud. Your diligence is appreciated.
New nVidia drivers came out yesterday: 180.48. Running XP SP3, 8800 GTS With OpenGL on, the full cursor shows on the primary monitor but the image doesn’t show at all on the secondary and the cursor is incomplete at larger sizes. With OpenGL off, the full cursor shows on the promary monitor and the image shows on the secondary but the cursor is still incomplete.
Adam, FYI On my home machine I have Vista64, OpenGL on, no AllowOldGPUs_ON reg edit. I get complete cursors, image display and smooth zooming on both monitors. It works. Also, on the XP machine the image title flickers during zooming, it does not in Vista. Both machines use the same card, same driver version.
Statusupdate: Using "hacked" drivers from <http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/> for my 8400M GS now and everything works like it should.
I still strongly believe that Adobe should do something for those unlucky users having a Mobile NVidia card not being able to get updated drivers from their manufacturers. I don’t believe that using these "hacked" drivers is the way to go for everyone (especially for non tech-savvy).
I also had the same cursor truncation issue. I finally just got around to looking up this posting. The registery setting change that was provided worked for me.
I do agree that this issue NOT being fixed pretty much renders photoshop useless. 🙁 I’m realy glad the registery setting was posted and worked.
Good luck to all of those stil experiencing issues!
Chris: I don’t like that you guys always refer to NVidia. You are perfectly right – The bug is on NVidia’s side, but Notebook manufacturers will not release new drivers for the mobile GPUs and NVidia is not allowed to directly give drivers for these special mobile versions. I hope you don’t expect every non-tech savvy user to use hacked drivers…
Contacting NVidia is NOT the problem’s solution as NVidia does not give support to mobile GPUs. Contacting Dell, HP, Sony (whatever) will also most probably not yield to a result. The latest drivers for my 8400M GS official from dell are from late 2007. I hope you don’t expect all users to use hacked drivers. What about publishing an official FAQ page in the adobe knowledge base with some tips for users how to circumvent this problem (e.g. the registry hack).
It is VERY disappointing to see Adobe passing the buck on this cursor problem.
Here we have a graphics card manufacturer that has a serious market share offering certain API calls, and Adobe relying on some arcane document (not specified here) which lays down something different.
If I took this approach when developing web sites, very few of the end users would get acceptable page rendering due to variations in adherence to the supposed ‘standards’.
Surely Adobe should take the more realistic view that whatever the standards might say, a big company like NVidia cannot be ignored if its drivers don’t fully comply. Especially when the problem was flagged up during beta.
And while I’m having a little rant, can I also say that the new cursor in CS4 is very much less user friendly (ie it disappears against certain backgrounds) than that in CS3 when doing grayscale retouching (of which I do a great deal). Surely it can’t be that difficult to include an option in Preferences to use the old cursor code. That would be a pragmatic and welcome workaround to both issues.
Meanwhile, even after all the months since the problem was first exposed, there is no sign of an update to NVidia drivers. Doesn’t say much for working level cooperation between two supposed industry leaders, does it.
surely if the problem lies with nvidia, nvidia needs to fix the problem. you see, in computers, specifications exist so that companies creating products can be assured of interoperability. when one company breaks spec, all it does is inconvenience the user because they couldn’t be bothered doing it right.
if you designed a website "to spec" (whatever, html, xhtml) but then "spiced it up" a little with something no one else uses, something "proprietary", would you expect everyone else to change for your website? (unless you’re microsoft the answer is no… but even then, i notice i now have no problems browsing MSDN with firefox.)
in other words, write letters, make phone calls, scream and jump up and down until nvidia fixes their bugs. or HP, or dell, or lenovo. if you don’t get satisfaction, what does that say about your choice in hardware vendors? if they can’t be bothered to fix their bugs why would you think it’s acceptable to rant at adobe for that?
But WHOSE standard is it when one of the few major graphics card manufacturers clearly doesn’t adhere to it? Unless the standard is accepted by those who make the hardware, it does end users no favours to rely on the simplistic assumption that you can ignore known non-compliance.
When beta testers tell you there is a new problem with new code, regardless of whose fault it is, surely it is not unreasonable to expect a workaround, not a trenchant statement that it is someone else’s fault and then to do nothing effective about it (I measure efficiency as output/input, not by the effort in between).
That’s enough from me. If you follow the Adobe line that the rest of the world is out of step and can be ignored as non-compliant, so be it.
wolf posted it. but more than that, the manufacturers AGREED to it, and then made mistakes (or "updates", or "customizations" whatever you want to call it) when implementing it. that’s like breaking a contract. "oh yea, we support the entire opengl standard. see? got a pretty logo certification stamp right on our box! of course, we do do SOME things a ‘little’ differently…"
without following standards nothing would work together. that’s kinda the agreement you make when you get into the game. sure make whatever you want, but if no one knows what the h%ll you’re doing, there’s gonna be problems. you can believe what you want about my feelings for adobe, but you’re wrong.
surely it is not unreasonable to expect a workaround, not a trenchant statement that it is someone else’s fault and then to do nothing effective about it
i’ve seen adobe do several workarounds in the past. ps7 had a problem with terabyte sized drives due to a microsoft api bug. they worked around it in CS1. i saw them work around a kpt3 bug because no one was updating that popular plugin anymore. but sometimes it’s just not possible. there are some things that underly everything else and they NEED to work as advertised. and there’s nothing you can do to work around them, except to disable the features that need the problem pieces.
an argument can be made if it was wise for adobe to go down the opengl route at all. i’m not getting into that, but i might come down on the side that it was probably not wise, for the gains and changes they made. that’s not the issue. the issue is now that they HAVE made that change, the video manufacturers need to step up to the plate and fulfill their side of the bargain.
sorry david j, i’m not following any "adobe line". i’m speaking as a pro developer myself (not having anything to do with adobe) who knows the need to follow standards and specs when you’re interacting with products that also agree to follow that standard.
The fact remains that it’s entirely possible that Adobe made some mistakes. I’m sure they had a set date for the release of Creative Suite 4, so maybe some of the components (PS CS4) weren’t quite fully cooked. Just speculation on my part, but certainly within the realm of possibility, given the power of the bean counters.
Thanks for the thoughtful responses, which is what I had hoped to provoke.
Nothing is ever straightforward and in millions of lines of code some bugs are inevitable. Overall, I am very impressed with PS CS4 and several little things that don’t make the headlines have been a great help to things I do very often. So I’m not complaining about CS4, just challenging the response to known bugs.
I still consider that display of the cursor in PhotoShop is so fundamental to the working of the program that serious effort is justified to overcome cursor issues exposed during testing. And if the culprit (if that is a fair description of the graphics card manufacturer concerned) won’t or can’t fix it by release date, there should be a fall back position within the Adobe empire to avoid the negative customer experiences currently the subject of this thread.
Something not too dissimilar crippled the Premiere titler on secondary monitors for several versions of the program. That, too, was probably blamable on the graphics driver, but not getting it resolved for several years did nothing for Adobe’s reputation in the eyes of those affected.
It is fixing the problem, if necessary by an Adobe compromise, that is lacking, whatever the rights and wrongs of the OpenGL standards compliance issues in this case. And, given Adobe’s apparent line on this matter, the lack of any mention of the problem in the issues list for the latest NVidia drivers does nothing for my expectation of anything changing for a while yet.
The fact remains that it’s entirely possible that Adobe made some mistakes.
I agree 100% nick. and adobe has admitted to finding some problems. but there are others like the 1/2 cursor problem that are fixed in some versions of drivers. the fact that the laptop makers don’t want to "waste" time fixing their drivers isn’t adobe’s fault. that’s all i was getting at.
I’m sure they had a set date for the release of Creative Suite 4, so maybe some of the components (PS CS4) weren’t quite fully cooked.
I also 100% agree with that. everyone’s had more than enough of my rants about adobe corporate bean counters and suits, i’m sure, but i want to make clear that i have nothing but the highest respect for the intelligence and talent of the development team and engineers.
I still consider that display of the cursor in PhotoShop is so fundamental to the working of the program that serious effort is justified to overcome cursor issues exposed during testing.
but that’s exactly one of my points david. the cursor bug has been proven to be a driver issue. we’re told it was fixed by many manufacturers before the cs4 release. but some makers (specifically integrated vid laptop makers) couldn’t be bothered. that’s not adobe’s fault and you should be screaming bloody murder to the laptop makers to fix their bugs that are crippling your system.
there should be a fall back position within the Adobe empire to avoid the negative customer experiences currently the subject of this thread.
can’t deny that. but it’s a huge duplication of effort to make the same thing work 2 different way. that’s a design decision, to support a fall back, or not.
I can’t speak to anything with premire, as i haven’t updated my copy since version 6… 🙂
I still consider that display of the cursor in PhotoShop is so >fundamental
to the working of the program that serious effort is >justified to overcome cursor issues exposed during testing.
you should be screaming bloody murder to the laptop makers to fix their bugs that are crippling your system.
While it seems so cut-and-dried to you … the same is not true for the end user.
The end user who just paid good money for a software upgrade that doesn’t work (whereas prior versions of the same software worked fine) sees only that Photoshop isn’t working like it should.
The "screaming bloody murder" you recommended ideally needs to go in both directions.
Why?
Because some people don’t have options for upgrading video drivers. And because if Adobe recognizes that fact, then they will look for ways around the issue. Software can do anything, given enough time and resources (i.e. priority).
Sure, you want it known that Adobe to be innocent. FINE. We’ve heard you. Blame nVidia. Now get the software working using a work around or there will be more screams of bloody murder.
——————-
(to Adobe’s credit, and for anyone who hasn’t read the entire thread, one of Adobe’s engineers did post a work around in this thread – which surprises me that people here are still taking the hard line stance of "scream bloody murder at nVidia" when they could take the softer approach of, "please contact nVidia for a real fix, and in the mean time, here is a nice work around that you can use while you wait", customers would be so much more relieved to hear this line than the other)
The video card manufacturers did step up to the plate during beta testing. Proof lies in the abobe web page with all them tested cards. Correct? Adobe even stated that as beta testing progressed so did the updates to the drivers to make the software work perfect thus ready to launch. Then the launch date came and………..
So, when did things fall apart? Dave, don’t get me wrong as I do agree with your point of view. What was the sweet spot to make these tested cards work during beta yet the same card not work on other peoples machines? I do understand that some hardware works different on other machines. However, after reading all these posts about people having high end hardware that is above and beyound what I am guessing the beta testers used, it makes leads me to believe there are other un-noticed issues causing the software not to run right or fails outright to install. DRM issues?
So yes I agree that the card manufacturers need to look at the driver issues. I also agree with the person who mention that maybe the software was not fully baked for release.
With that in mind we all come together as users in this tiny webspace trying to help each other out as much as we can until the software powers to be can iron things out.
I also agree with the person who mention that maybe the software was not fully baked for release.
I agree, dave.
With that in mind we all come together as users in this tiny webspace trying to help each other out as much as we can until the software powers to be can iron things out.
yup. i log in here every day to learn and to help out by passing that along. that’s what this forum is all about.
That changes nothing in what I said. All that says is that you are apparently one of the fortunate ones who is not affected by the problem. LUCKY YOU. Bow out. The issue is between those who are affected and Adobe – and you quite obviously don’t appreciate what they are going through.
Take away your working machine. Replace it with a laptop and un-upgradeable video drivers. Pay good money for an upgrade to CS4. Start trying to use it. Then see how you feel. The tune will quickly change.
AGAIN: Adobe has posted a work around. It is mentioned right here in this thread. Adobe listened. Adobe responded. Why continue the "hard line". Download the work around. Begin using it now. Then go scream at those who maintain the video drivers.
I see that truncated brush as well, and it’s not on any kind of late model board. It’ not even a PCIe video but a PCI. So Open GL isn’t a factor. It won’t run at all.
The fact of the matter is that CS4 is not very kind to legacy stuff. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem kind to current stuff either. That or by the release date, everything out there is legacy.
I’ve seen no tolerance on the part of the ones without problems. All I’ve seen is the recommendation for a rant against video card makers even for those unfortunate enough to have no recourse to get to video card manufacturers (nVidia does NOT support laptops).
What we want to see here is people who have these issues and are determined to find the problem, not who to blame. Luckily we now have at least one in another thread.
We, the others without problems, can assist with that. We can point them this way and that based on our own experiences.
But "Whose to blame for this" is a completely meaningless question at this point, until we have a clue about what’s going on. At best it’s pure speculation. At worst it’s counterproductive.
Everybody, and especially David Terry, reread dave milbut’s post #89: OpenGL is a specification. It’s not something Adobe or nVidia cooked up for their own entertainment.
I’ve seen no tolerance on the part of the ones without problems
then you don’t visit many threads. there’s plenty of tolerance and sympathy and help for people who don’t just rant at other users who are here trying to share and help for free. like john said, if you don’t like the advice, you can either take your own advice or ask for your money back.
The one and only person who provided any "real support" for me (a laptop user who still to this day would be unable to use CS4 if it were up to folks in this thread) – did so in private, via direct email to me, his name: Adam Jerugim.
While admitting that the bug is still in the nVidia driver (something I’ve never disputed), he suggested a work around via a registry change which would allow CS4 to enable old GPUs to work.
A workaround. That’s all that was needed -while- waiting for nVidia to catch up.
Hoping to provide a "hint" to the more vocal participants of this thread, I pointed out in post #43 that a registry setting was available direct from Adobe which could work around the problem. (emphasis again on WORK AROUND)
Yet in spite of the hint … people such as Chris and Dave Milbut continue to insist that there is no solution other than to contact nVidia. (true, that is the ultimate solution, but it ignores that there is a "work around" — again I said "work around" — which is available to get you up and running in the mean time while you wait)
I watched as more people came into this thread still having the problems.
Finally I suggested to Adam that he pop into the thread and provide the work around himself.
He did so. See post #68.
Now, even with the "work around" available, I still see nothing but recommendations of "go rant against your video card supplier" without even a hint that "yes, while you wait, you can use this solution in the mean time".
And that is the only reason at all that I popped in again … is to point out that yes, there is a "work around" available.
I’m already using it. I’m not one of those in need of support at this point in time. I’m only trying to help out those who DO still need support.
Post #68 folks. Go back to that one and you’ll see it.
(meanwhile, after it’s been 6 weeks and I still have no word back from the laptop manufacturer – so another big THANK YOU to Adam for helping get my CS4 up and running)
I honestly don’t want to get into an argument but I have a question. Why do people expect to do any serious Photoshop work on a laptop? And if they do need to do so, why not just use Elements, which is less demanding? Laptops don’t have the power to begin with, and evidently, support is not that great. After working on a regular tower system with two monitors the idea of working in a laptop seems like going from driving to walking. Just my opinion.
Intel Quad, 8 gigs, Vista 64 Home Premium, Nvidia 9800GT (7.15.11.7556) NOT latest driver. It’s very confusing to me why my Nvidia card is (thankfully) working as it should while others have problems.
CS4 works great, so far. Only complaint is the Lasso tool completes selections before I’m ready. I’ve had this problem in other versions and my work-around is to do small selections and keep adding to them.
And I do sympathize with those having problem. That is my point, John, Dave and others are very knowledgeable and do feel for those having trouble. There are even Adobe people here trying to sort this all out. I’m pretty sure they want to provide a product they can be proud of. And no, I do not always defend Adobe. Don’t get me started on CS Re-activation. Q
Not to prolong the issue, but to answer your questions, here’s what I have:
– A two monitor system (17" laptop plus 24" monitor) – A fairly powerful Core 2 Duo T9300 (2.5Ghz) processor – 4 Gig of ram – Internal 320Gb drive – A Drobo 4Tb system for main storage (of current projects) – And so many external drives for backups that I’ve lost count
You may have a high end desktop, but I don’t feel that my laptop is really all that low end. The huge advantage to a laptop? I can pick it up and go whenever I want. I process photos in between weddings. I process photos when traveling. I process whenever / wherever I want.
And the best thing is? I have the full power of my main computer with me at all times. Every software application I use. Every tool I use. Everything I need is right there. I don’t have to maintain a separate copy of my files or applications or tools on a second machine.
Is it a good solution for everyone? Probably not. Does it fit my needs? Absolutely.
Does it run Photoshop CS4? (with the Old Gpu Registry settings enabled) ABSOLUTELY! And it does so quite well.
Also, there is the problem of backwards compatibility. I recognize that the problem with truncated cursors likely lies with the video card/software. The real problem, for both card providers and third party providers is the collusion in adapting to each others upgrades leaves out the legacy element and here the legacy only goes back one CS revision. The fact that my card will not support open GL and shuts down those tools that are only possible with Open GL or whatever doesn’t bother me in the least. What is unacceptable is the things like cursors, damn fundamental, unfortunately also require the upgrades to work at all correctly.
That’s the legacy part.
The first order of business, IMO, is to correct that software in CS4 that disallows those fundamental operations from running correctly as a native condition of Photoshop operations. To that end, those operations requiring the newer cards and corrected drivers could be set as a separate operation as a plug in.
Would it do any good if the good folks at Adobe echoed your "once again" statement in print — as a news release to prospective buyers — alerting them that problems such as incomplete cursors "are a known bug in the Nvidia driver software." Therefore, people buying computers that have Nvidia gpu’s may experience problems with Adobe C4 products.
Now I certainly would be proud of Adobe and wouldn’t we all be surprised if both Nvidia and computer manufactures got off their behinds and resolved this problem.
You would go along with this wouldn’t you Chris? Chris?
Perhaps Ron’s point is that even though both Adobe and nVidia have been aware of this problem for months, nVidia still hasn’t been able to come up with a fix.
I share his frustration with trying to use crippled functionality. If you had to use it, you would too.
Updating the Nvidia driver does fix the half circle cursor. That’s because GL is disabled on the next PS start after a driver update – silently, by the way, so unless you check, you might be tempted to proclaim you’ve been healed. Put GL back on, the cursor is again its old half-circle self. Nothing is fixed. It’s bugged up pretty bad.
KB2 is right. Having fought the driver issue for over a year with Dell (forget it!)and Nvidia (forget it!) I am foced to upgrade my GPUs (8800M SLI)using modded drivers (latest 180.70)from LaptopVideo2Go. Believe me, I sympathize with consumers who cannot get a manufacturer or Nvidia to get anything done. So when Chris says to get an updated driver, it causes some of us to grit our teeth.
Actually, nothing will get Nvidia off their arse unless Adobe publicly points out that there are known bugs in their drivers. Then, and only then will Nvidia make a move. So I guess I was trying to point out to Chris that after a while consumers come to believe that Adobe does indeed have some responsibility in resolving the matter.
If it is Nvidia’s fault (which I honestly beleive), then Adobe should consider issuance of a formal public notice that use of computers (at least laptops) with their GPUs could be problematic…rather than let them advertise how great their GPUs are with Adobe graphic systems.
As for my problem, I was finally able to resolve it this morning.
It turns out that under XP, the numbering of your primary & secondary monitor is arbitrary. That is, you may mark monitor #1 or #2 as the primary; it doesn’t matter (except for this bug!).
In my case, contrary to what I wrote previously, what I had actually been doing was editing on my primary monitor, which XP identified as monitor #2. This setup exhibited the drawing bug.
This morning I discovered it is possible to renumber the monitors. Now I am editing on the same monitor, still set as the primary device, but it is now identified as monitor #1. The problem "disappeared". (It now occurs if I try to edit on monitor #2, my secondary monitor, which I do not use for editing, but which had previously not had the problem.)
In case anyone is in the same situation, here’s how you go about swapping monitor ID #s:
Turn off your secondary monitor, and unplug its cable from the computer. After rebooting, look at the Settings tab on Display Properties and verify that only one monitor is shown. Re-attach the secondary monitor’s cable, and reboot again. This time, the Settings tab should show both monitors, and the primary monitor should be identified as monitor #1.
PS – I just tried setting the ‘AllowOldGPUS’ to 0 and relaunched PS; it still works. So it seems that the registry key never made a difference in my case.
Yep, we seem to have the identical issue. Primary monitor works fine when editing is done on base laptop and it is set as primary monitor (1). The external monitor works for me in all aspects except the incomplete cursor. This is either a problem with Nvidia GPU or Microsoft XP (thought I would bring them to the blame party).
Nvidia is finalizing their "Big Bang" drivers that allow an external monitor in SLI configuration. XP is not listed as yet, but perhaps if they include an XP version, we may get some relief.
I frankly don’t want to go with Vista but may have to if the Big Bang drivers actually do allow SLI with 2 screens. I would like to edit on larger external (24" monitor).
I’m wondering, has anyone been able to get SLI to work with an external monitor attached to a laptop? My guess is you have to use a modified inf to accomplish this. And if you’ve been successful, do you have complete cursor control as well as other GPU-related functions?
This brush problem is a total deal breaker for me. I’ll check this on the new platform I configured last week, but on my single core AMD XP Pro box, I get the most idiotic operation possible.
When the brush is over a white area, the circle is black. Fine
When over a black area, the circle is white. Great!
When over a gray area, the circle is gray!! That is invisible.
Lawrence, is this the clone stamp brush? It sounds like you might be describing the new (GREAT, IMO) behavior of cloning which shows you a preview of what your clone stamp is going to look like before you click. It might sound a bit silly, but I’ve found it to be a great time saver, especially when trying to line up patterns.
OTOH, you could be describing an actual bug, and if so, my apologies.
That change of cursor tone is by design. People pleaded for a more visible cursor. It only disappears over one particular shade of grey, which is unavoidable. If you lose it, briefly press the space bar or toggle with the Caps Lock.
I have CS4 on 2 machines, one with an ATI card and the other with an Nvidia card, both experience that incomplete cursor as well as damn near unbearable cursor lag when using any brush based tool. So, IMHO, It may not JUST be the drivers, I’m running the latest drivers on both, still having the 2 issues listed above.
I am not on a mobile pc, nor am I on a Geforce card. I use desktop with a Quadro FX 1500 and I am still having issues even WITH the latest drivers. in 178.46 nvidia states that the cursor truncating issue in photoshop cs4 is resolved, yet I still get the issue. I am just wondering is anyone going to fix this issue any time soon? or if there is a fix i am unaware of can someone direct me to it.
I had similar issues with my FX3450. I had to completely uninstall the existing drivers, then boot into safe mode and install the new video drivers to get everything to take.
My system reported that I was running the current drivers, but clearly, there was something getting overlooked.
I was considering an upgrade from CS2 to CS4 and have just happened across this thread. I’m not very computer savvy and don’t understand a lot of what is being said here.
I just ran down the specs on my system which are:
Gigabyte GA-8I955X Royal Intel 955X Chipset motherboard Intel Pentium D 820 Smithfield 2 x 1MB L2 Dual Core, EM64T Corsair 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 533 XFX Geforce 6600 256MB DDR PCI Express Video Card
With this system, is there a chance that I would run into the cursor problem that is being discussed here?
I’ve just done a clean install of the new 181.20 NVidia Geforce driver for my 8800GTX. The cursor bug remains unchanged on the secondary monitor but, as before, there is no problem on the primary.
Very disappointingly, there is still no mention of this issue in the release notes for NVidia Geforce drivers. So please will everyone affected make a bug report to NVidia.
I have also done a clean install of 181.20 Nvidia driver for my 8800M GTX. I have Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz, 4Gb RAM on Windows XP SP3. No cursor problem on laptop but truncated on external Dell 24" monitor.
Everything except the cursor works on this setup. My guess is it’s the same with you. I have submitted a bug report to NVidia but I don’t expect much.
If I reduced the size of the image on the external monitor to about 33%, I get a full cursor up to about 200%. As I increase the image size the cursor truncates even if reduce cursor size. Deplorable.
Everything works fine on my 4-year old desktop on dual monitors (ATI card) — who would have guessed! As I tell my younger counterparts, old is good.
I’m using an Nvidia 780i MOBO w/ dual 9600GT Cards. (Same as 8800GT) I just installed Nvidia’s lastest Drivers from January 8 2009 for XP. I’m happy to report that this cursor problem is now fixed for me. I wish everyone else success with it. In the past I’ve never updated graphic drivers. Now I’m wondering what I have missed on all the PC’s I’ve owned. I think Adobe has done well in that I’ve never had to do this in the past.
GeForce Release 181 WHQL Version: 181.20 Release Date: January 8, 2009 Operating System: Windows XP, Windows XP Media Center Edition Language: U.S. English File Size: 72.2 MB
Despite people’s frustration here, Adobe isn’t just sitting around hoping problems don’t creep up. They can’t test for everything, especially since it’s not a problem for everyone. when you have a problem it seems like everyone else must have it, but they just don’t. I hope more visitors take a deep breath before insulting Adobe programmers or assuming that it’s some kind of conspiracy or something they totally blew off.
Every time I build a new computer, there is always something not quite compatible with something else. A USB port will be spotty, or a case light won’t have a connector on the MOBO. Or Linux won’t do dual monitors, or a webcam issue, or a video game sound is chunky and on and on. Let’s not make this into something bigger than it is. It is visually annoying, but it’s workable and it doesn’t take much to update and troubleshoot it for 10-20 minutes. Odds are you will be able to fix it. The odds are in your favor here.
I’ve got the same 9600GT cards but, unfortunately for me, still have the cursor problem with the new driver. Did you install over the old driver or uninstall the old one first?
F, Try this website out for driver sweeper. It cleans out all left over videocard driver stuff and it is free. Sometimes a system will go bonkers with left overs from driver de-installs and installs. Comes with instructions on how to use.
Im having the SAME issue, and was wondering if anyone had any ideas? Do you suggest that i uninstall my video card drivers Fully, and then install the most recent version??? any help would be great. thanks!
Hay Sam Shand… I have the exact same card with xp sp3. I was wondering if you are able to enable open gl and still have the problem fixed? I was able to fix the problem by designating my moniter and #1, but will only fix the brush issue when open gl is turned off…. thanks!
Have you read the previous responses? The ones that tell you that this is a video driver bug and only updating the driver can fix the incomplete cursor?
Trouble is, even with the 181.22 NVidia driver that was released 2 days ago, the bug is still present on my 8800GTX Win XP system.
And there is STILL no mention at all of the issue in the release notes for this driver.
So, despite earlier comments on this thread, at consumer level there is no sign whatsoever that NVidia is aware of the problem, much less doing anything about it.
If it really is an NVidia problem, even Adobe must recognise that it needs to be fixed. Don’t you talk to them? Don’t they listen?
Too much ducking and weaving going on here. Time some ACTION was taken by someone.
To be fair, a lot of action is going on at Adobe and they are not shrouding it in secrecy in fact they are involving participants on this forum. If you can read you should know this!
What the card driver writers are doing is less clear.
David – then you need to contact NVidia and tell them that it is not yet fixed for your system and that you still need a fix. NVidia is supposed to be fixing their cursor bug, and they have fixed it for most systems, but apparently they haven’t gotten the fix into all of their drivers yet.
Chris, you`re right. But it seems to be hard to contact nvidia. Only if you look very hard you find a contact possibility on their website. And they never ever respond to anything! Stefan
I have reported it to NVidia via the only route I have been able to discover – their web forum. No response there except for minor support from posters here.
It is now months down the line and no sign that the issue is accepted at NVidia nor of any remedial action anywhere.
This is not good for Adobe customer relations, regardless of who they blame for the issue.
But I have work to do that does not include unpaid bug chasing for Adobe or NVidia, so I’m out.
Thanks for all your help. I think you be assured that the majority of people in this thread have faithfully (yet unsuccessfully) attempted multiple upgrades of their GPU driver. Many of us have also unsuccessfully attempted to get Nvidia to get off their arse.
Perhaps you will understand that we are somewhat disappointed with Adobe when it comes to putting some public pressure on them to do their part and fix their drivers (if this is really the issue). If it is really their fault, I again suggest that Adobe upper management publicly issue a statement saying that, "for those who are considering purchases/upgrades to CS4 versions of Photoshop, you may experience problems with certain Nvidia drivers that have not be upgraded." My guess is that all drivers would be upgrades quickly.
Until then, I’m sorry but I can’t buy the Adobe answer of "it’s the Nvidia drivers." I say back up your position publicly.
"for those who are considering purchases/upgrades to CS4 versions of Photoshop, you may experience problems with certain Nvidia drivers that have not be upgraded."
Ron – we’re doing what we can without getting lawyers in a huff. We’re working with NVidia directly pretty much every day..
Right now, NVidia needs to hear from their customers that it is not all fixed. They need details of which cards/drivers are still broken. They apparently need to hear it from someone else, because we’ve been telling them about this for a long time now….
In the NVIDIA knowledgebase they recommend the super expensive Quadro CX as the best option for CS4. Ouch.
Same basic response that I got from ATI. They say that my card, although it meets CS4 requirements, is not appropriate for graphics programs like CS4, and that I should purchase one of their high-end cards. Ain’t gonna happen. I’m not shelling out another $800 or more for something that may or may not work.
Chris – Thanks for the reply. I am sure I’m just one among the many 8800 GTX card users that have reported problem to Nvidia. As I have indicated in previous comments, Nvidia is no friend of mine. But they are smack dab in the middle of serious Q&A problems with their cards so I’m just guessing, my cursor problem is not on their priority list.
A nice little patch would help. I’m working around the problem now, but to have a cursor problem like this is beyond just problematic.
But, let’s keep on keeping on until it’s resolved. Still like the CS4 design suite. Just like my wife, pain in the arse, but I still love her.
Ron – I’m not sure we can patch around it and keep the current performance or functionality (ahem: when it works). I believe we tried a few times (but I didn’t do that code myself).
Again: NVidia needs to hear from customers that bugs like this are important, that customers are using their cards for more than games, and that customers expectations for quality go up when you’re depending on the GPU to make money and not just to kill zombies.
FWIW, Ive been assured by a contact within NVIDIA that on both Geforce and Quadro cards that the latest driver 181.20 does indeed fix the issue of the cursor outline only being partially displayed.
NVidia has told me as well that the latest driver fixes the cursor display issue. However, some customers are finding that they don’t fix it — so NVidia needs to hear from customers exactly which systems, which cards, and which driver versions are not working.
It still doesn’t work on the secondary monitor with OpenGL on. The large cursor is incomplete but what’s worse is the image doesn’t display. It’s fine with OpenGL off.
I’ve always had the full cursor on my DEll M1730 laptop. I have never had full cursor on the extended monitor (DualView). All other OpenGL functions work on extended monitor (as well as the laptop).
The information on the problem occurring on an external laptop display is a going to go along way toward getting this issue resolved. I suspect that it may be a simple case of changing one of the options in the Nvidia Control Panel, unfortunately I don’t have a dual monitor setup here to test with, but I’ll check when I get back to my office tomorrow. I’ll post a followup once I have a repro and hopefully a solution.
You should also be aware that the problems do not occur on my home machine secondary monitor in Vista 64, using basically the same hardware with OpenGL on.
Ah, we may be facing the consequences of having external monitors and using XP 32 SP3.
I have a old desktop at home using ATI GPU, dual monitors and XP 32 SP3 and it runs like a race horse with no problems at all. It’s my life saver on projects where I don’t want to hassle with the cursor swap to the laptop process. But I have faith in Sean, don’t you Derrick?
So to update. The issue was resolved for single monitor setups, however we just recently became aware of the issue on dual display configurations. The team here is aware of the issue and is currently working to fully resolve the issue. I’ll update when a fixed driver is expected.
The problem of the incomplete cursor being specific to the 2nd monitor of a two monitor system was identified in this thread as far back as November 13th.
Just FYI (in case anyone thought this was new news)
Wasn’t that the time frame where all solutions were covered under the "just update your driver" umbrella category?
I’ll be very interested to see what transpires as a result of the external / dual monitor "revelation." Hey, we got a response. Someone has picked up the gauntlet.
I’m getin’ kida used to that new "Quarter Moon" cursor that you can only get with CS4. Works like crap, but it’s unique to the industry.
Despite a frustrating evening of multiple reboots and failed driver installs I finally got this fixed on my Sony Vaio Notebook / Nvidia GeForce 7600GT / XP SP3 32bit. In case anyone else has issues with a similar setup, here’s what I did;
-Download the 185.20 XP 32bit – 2008-12-26 driver from www.laptopvideo2go.com -Download their modified INF file -Extract the driver files -Copy in the modified INF file -Run Setup.exe. Trying to update the driver thru Device Manager failed every time for me.
I ran into this same problem today after finally having a chance to run through PhotoShop CS4 for the first time, and I have to admit this thread had me slowly walking a year-and-a-half old Alienware laptop to our back dumpster here.
But seriously, I have an Alienware M9750 with an Nvidia GeForce Go 7950 GTX card.
Although some of the customer service techniques from the Adobe reps in this thread aren’t that effective, their messages are spot on. I took their underlying advice, and skirted around the lack of Nvidia support and went straight to my laptop manufacturer, and they turned me on to an update from Nvidia, which Alienware hosts on its own site – Nvidia Graphics Driver 179.13 Beta.
The Beta kinks could be with stand by and hibernation modes, but for me the Adobe cursors in PhotoShop are working fine, now. And I’m not yet experiencing any other problems with the functionality of my notebook.
These these graphics and sound cards are real whips with creative software. I had a hell of a time getting some Avid software to work with a RealTek sound card that came installed, so I had to get an external card.
I was on Lynda.com, "brushing" up on Photoshop CS4’s 3D capabilities when I found myself staring for nearly an hour at Chad Perkins demonstrating how to use various tools using an incomplete cursor. Never a mention, he just plowed on. It was painful. But I guess, the folks at Lynda.com haven’t got the word to upgrade their GPU’s. Or they have given up…
Chris, if any of your comrades want to see the incomplete cursor in action, Lynda.com Photoshop 3D is a good show.
This is plain great Ron. Maybe sometime the word gets out about this new feature of CS4. 179 replies in this topic and still only workarounds… Also the recent update to Photoshop did not address this issue at all.
It seems pretty well established that this is in fact a driver issue. That the laptop manufacturers won’t update their driver releases is of course no consolation to those affected.
the incomplete cursor in action
That reminds me of a video demonstration (can’t recall where) that Adobe Gamma was in fact alive and well in CS3. They managed somehow to bring up the interface, but it immediately became clear that it didn’t work. All sliders greyed out and completely frozen. But that didn’t slow them down for a second – it went on for five minutes with a completely DOA Adobe Gamma.
I couldn’t stop thinking of Monty Python’s parrot sketch.
(why are people not reading the thread before posting?)
Ron – we’ve seen the incomplete cursor. We’ve shown it to NVidia, repeatedly. But we can’t fix the bug in their driver code.
Dennis – again, the fix has to come from NVidia, the bug is in their code. NVidia thinks they now have it fixed in all of their drivers. If it isn’t fixed on your system, then you have to contact NVidia and give them details so they can track down whatever it is that they missed. Ignore your laptop manufacturer and get the driver from NVidia.
(No, Adobe Gamma is dead and buried, not pining for the fjords….)
Thanks Chris for getting back to us. People ARE reading the thread, they are just unhappy with the responses. Yes, it is a NVidia bug – nothing Adobe caused by erroneous doing! Problem is, that the bug ain’t fixed for all Notebook manufacturers. Also the information "Nvidia thinks they now have it fixed in all their drivers" is new and I am happy that you post it here. I am one of the lucky ones which could fix the bug by newer hacked drivers from different manufacturers, so I’m not complaining.
Dennis – Notebook manufacturers may or may not update their drivers. But NVidia has posted notebook drivers themselves, so you can bypass notebook makers who fail to update their drivers responsibly.
Chris – we are also aware that NVidia has posted notebook drivers themselves. We are also aware that we are in danger of voiding our warranties by not using the laptop manufacturer’s recommended GPU driver. Most of us do this because we WANT Photoshop to work. You know, if we didn’t experience incomplete cursors, we wouldn’t have to endanger our warranties. So let’s hold hands and move forward with a sense of teamwork and harmony (sorry, I didn’t mean to make anybody ill). If you don’t mind, I’ll just keep checking the thread to see if by some miracle, a solution has been found.
I’m still getting no brush size after 620 pixels wide. Not on a laptop, but on a workstation running an Nvidia GTX 260 card with the latest drivers per Adobe’s recommendation. I assume this is another one to lay at Nvidia’s feet, and if so I’ll dutifully send in a bug report.
The thing is, I don’t think Nvidia is ever going to address all the issues that its drivers have with Photoshop. They’re way too busy trying to please the majority of their users who want their games to work better and faster. Even if we get fixes, the drivers seem to get broken at every release (I’m also getting random transparent pull down menus that leave the selection bitmap displayed unless I sleep and reawaken the computer).
Workstation users can pony up big cash for a workstation-class card with drivers that are a lot more likely to be stable and reliable with productivity apps, and where driver bug reports for Photoshop aren’t going to be overwhelmed by the F.E.A.R. 2 users requests. Laptop users and folks without don’t have that option.
BJ – NVidia is listening. But we need customers to contact them and give them the necessary information, and to let them know that not all their customers play games.
Thanks Dave – but rest assured, we are also aware of reinstalling approved drivers prior to sending anything back. But I do appreciate your advice.
I have written Nvidia 6 times with no response(every time I change to a new driver). Just wanted to get that on the record. I’m back on 179.48(Beta)now.
The newest driver for GeForce 9600 GT (182.08) fixes the missing cursor problems on second and third monitors, which is good. What is bad however is now on the second and third monitors OpenGL performance is TERRIBLE. Dreadful cursor lags and blocky artifacts all over the place so you can’t tell what you’ve painted!!!!! The bigger the cursor the worse it is….. it’s not normal lag either, it’s jerky and misses big blocks from the document. It is unusable!
Also in the driver 3D settings it does not automatically ‘see’ PS CS4 and if you add it the default Multiple screens mode is not changed to Compatibility mode (if this is not changed the window on second and third monitors will be black). This has been the default settings in all previous drivers! The program list will also ‘forget’ that Photoshop has been added to it, although it seems to remember any settings made. You keep having to add it again if you want to change a setting.
While I applaud the fixing of the cursor, I am totally frustrated by the performance. You simple can’t paint because of lag and artifacts because you can’t see what you are doing.
It’s better with OpenGL turned off, but what’s the point of that?!?
Since performance was fine on older drivers (just had the disappearing cursor – but I can use the crosshair cursor) I will have to go back to v182.06 till this is fixed! Urgh.
And before anyone says…. I did three clean uninstalls, cleaned out the reg, and reinstalls, turned off OpenGL in PS beforehand and everything I could think of or has previously been suggested. Without any different results.
I’ll try letting Nvidia know, but since they never listen to me before I shan’t hold my breath
NVidia is listening, and working on many of these problems. They have recently identified more multiple display performance issues and are working on them.
I haven’t seen any improvement in my M1730 with 8800M GTX GPUs using newer drivers. Can you cite any drivers that "do" fix the broken cursor on the external monitor of a laptop?
Chris:
Very good news that NVidia is working on the multiple display performance issues. Hope they don’t forget those of us who have to travel and use a laptop with an external monitor.
If anyone is still having issues with the latest driver 182.08, please verify that you do a complete driver uninstall before attempting to install this driver. Older drivers should always be removed to assure that the new driver configuration can be properly written to the system.
182.08 has fixed the cursor bug on my 8800GTX/Win XP Pro SP3 system, whereas 182.06 did not.
I did not need to do a clean install – installing over the top of 182.06 worked OK.
Thanks for all the behind-the-scenes effort that got this fixed. Now all I want is the CS3 cursor display that showed up much better against mid-grey than the CS4 version.
Hi guys. I am seeing the incomplete cursor again with the very newest drivers (182.08) on my Quadro CX any time I have a 3D application running at the same time as Photoshop. For example, Autodesk Maya or Luxology modo.
This is even *with* OpenGL acceleration turned *off* in Photoshop.
I pleased to report that I now have complete cursor functionality on my Dell 24" external monitor attached to my XPS M1730. Full functionality was restored following an update to the Nvidia 182.08 driver (via LaptopVideo2Go.com). And I must now agree with you Chris, that the solution is to have the patience to try new drivers every day, week and month until Nvidia slides in a driver that may work on one’s machine.
Unless I read that a number of contributors to this thread used the driver on non-Quatro machines, I would have by-passed this driver (and as Chris said, the "solution"). So thanks to all who contributed.
Sorry to report that I had to return to Nvidia 179.48 driver because the 182.08 (Quadro version) was unstable in my 1730 laptop. Those of us without a complete solution should have some hope however, that as newer drivers are developed for our computers (including mobile versions), we should have the problem resolved. Indeed Chris, the solution is squarely in the hands of GPU manufacturers.
Maybe I can get some advice. When I install Windows XP (or Quadro) 182.08 driver, the cursor problem is eliminated. However, I noticed that I also lost several key fonts (Minon Pro and Myriad Pro are the most important). The fonts are still there, but cannot be used. Further, I cannot load these or other fonts from the CS4 "Goodies" file. I remove the old files and when I try to install the replacement files, I get a message saying the fonts may be corrupt. This is not true since when I go back to using 179.48 driver, the fonts are fine and I am able to add fonts from the "suspect" CS4 disk.
It could be that in order to use the 182.08 driver, I must use a modded driver since I’m trying to install on a Dell XPS M1730 laptop (with a Dell 24" external monitor).
I think there is a problem with the 182.08 driver. I got a reply from Nvidia support when I reported my cursor fixed but new OpenGL problems and the response was:
"Sorry to hear about the new problem with the updated driver. It looks like our engineers inadvertently broke something in the process as they were fixing a related issues. There is a newer beta driver posted at a 3rd party site that you may want to try. I suspect this driver was leaked to them awhile back from an unknown source.
If this driver produce the same behavior, we may have to waiting a bit for the next driver update"
I chose not to try out the untested 185.20 driver (instead I’ve gone back to v182.06 with the cursor probs) as I looked at a user forum on it (which is linked to on the above download page) and others (tho not all) were experiencing some problems with it (game related, but 3D probs).
I personally will wait instead till Nvidia officially release it in the hopes that it will be better. But someone else may care to give it a go.
FYI, I’m sure this is a driver issue, since it has happened in the past when I upgraded drivers. It’s just frustrating since I thought I had the "final solution." I have now gone to Nvidia 181.22 (a CUDA driver) that seems quite stable but apparently doesn’t have the cursor fix incorporated (for an external monitor). Cursor still works on the parent laptop monitor.
Yea, I’ll just have to wait until a newer driver is released. I’m already pushing the Nvidia envelope now. So its a game of writing to Nvidia and play wait-and-see as new drivers are released.
I really didn’t follow what "cjmah" was trying to say…
You know using an external monitor on a laptop environment is a different breed of cat versus straight laptop displays or even multiple monitors on a desktop. We just wait to see what cards we’re dealt.
no need i heard from the computer technician u bring the desktop down to fix the problem if u have destop if u are using laptop remember to bring the laptop and adaptor down to the computer technician to fix the problem sorry for the problem i say
I see the language barrier. i’m sure he’s saying a tech fixed his problem. i’m sure he did, but many people don’t need a tech to install drivers, although they can.
just to be clear, it’s not a hardware issue, it’s a driver problem.
I have the same problem with my Cintiq, Adobe is not taking any responsibily for this, see a copy of my support case below:
UpdatedTuesday, March 24, 2009 2:02:53 AM PDT OpenedFriday, January 9, 2009 7:29:20 AM PST StatusClosed ProductDesign Standard 4.0 Support contract Adobe Support Program SubjectPS CS4 cannot see brush tool Notes & responsesNotes to CustomerTuesday, March 24, 2009 2:01:36 AM PDT Dear Mr Graziani,
As advised previously this is an issue with a 3rd party software, you will need to speak to Watcom directly as to when they are releasing new drivers
As per your email you have installed this on a new system and it works fine without the Watcom tablet
Warm Regards
Ifty
Adobe Technical Support Notes from CustomerMonday, March 23, 2009 8:11:45 AM PDT
Hello Ifty,
Don’t you think it’s a bit outrageous for you to ask me to change graphics card?
If it was some obscure made, then I could even be forthcoming & give it a go. But this is Nvidia we are talking about, a market lead er!!!
Have the Adobe team overlooked this & created a software that is not compatible with Nvidia cards?
I wanted to answer the above question myself, so I proceeded & intalled PS CS4 on another PC using an Nvidia 9400, surprise surprise , the brush tool works fine here…
The issue is obviously between PS CS4 the wacom Cintiq.
Now, instead of trying to blame everybody else other than yourselves, why don’t you guys take responsibility for your own software & provide me with a viable solution?
Thanks,
Matt. Notes to CustomerThursday, March 19, 2009 1:59:24 AM PDT
Dear Mr Graziani,
As per our previous email this is a third party component issue and not photoshop related issue
We would advise seeking a refund on your graphics card and purchasing a NON NVIDIA card
Warm Regards
Ifty
Adobe Technical Support Notes from CustomerThursday, March 19, 2009 12:54:49 AM PDT OK, so could you explain why does PS CS3 work fine on the cintiq? Notes to CustomerFriday, March 13, 2009 3:44:41 AM PDT
Dear Mr. Graziani,
Thank you for your update, this issue is caused by the NVIDIA drivers and not the Photoshop software. We would advise seeking a refund for your graphics card and buy another non NVIDIA card which does not suffer from the issue.
Yours sincerely, Adobe Technical Support Notes from CustomerFriday, March 6, 2009 6:51:31 AM PST
Hello Tim,
As suggested by you, I updated both the graphics card drives (Version: 182.08 – Release Date: 03.03.2009) & the Cintiq 12WX drivers (Driver 6.1.0-6 (RC) for USB Tablets on Windows Vista & XP (32 & 64 bit) Release Date: 12/15/08).
As you can see by the attached, matters are even worse now. Before I had troubles seing the brush cursor in CS4, now it doesn’t even display the image anymore!
Now if you compare it to the same image displayed on the cintiq but in Photoshop CS3 (bottom image on the attached) you will realise that the issue is not the graphic card or the wacom cintiq, the issue is PS CS4!
Knowing that Adobe is a reputable company, I am confident that (seen the attached evidence) you guys will be more than happy to eith er offer some kind of refund or a heavily discounted price on the next version of Adobe Photoshop.
Thanks,
D M Graziani Notes to CustomerFriday, February 13, 2009 1:20:43 AM PST
Dear Mr. Graziani,
We can confirm that this is a known issue with the Nvidea card. Nvidia needs to fix this and they are currently working on it. Please keep a keen eye on Nvidea’s website as they should be releasing new drivers for the card sometime soon. Please contact them if you require further info on this. We will let you know if we hear something first.
Yours sincerely, Tim Wilson Adobe Technical Support Notes from CustomerWednesday, February 4, 2009 2:23:58 AM PST
Hello Ifty,
I tried all that, but it’s still not working. Any other ideas?
Thanks,
Matt. Notes to CustomerThursday, January 29, 2009 2:24:02 AM PST
Dear Mr Graziani,
Further to your email I have found a possible solution to this,
There is known issue with the Nvidia Graphics card on Creative Suite Product
Solution 1: Update your video card driver. Download the most recent version of the display driver from your display card manufacturer’s website. Follow the directions on how to update your video card from the display card manufacturer or operating system’s website.
Note: If updating your driver does not solve the problem, then regularly check for new drivers.
Solution 2: Disable GPU support Close all image windows. Deselect Enable OpenGL Drawing in Photoshop > Edit > Preferences > Performance (Windows). Reopen your images.
I believe this will resolve the problem for you
If I can be any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me
Warm Regards Ifty
Notes from CustomerWednesday, January 21, 2009 8:59:41 AM PST
Thanks Ifty,
I tried the steps you suggested to no avail. Please provide me with a patch to fix this or replacement software as CS3 works fine it ‘s only PS CS4 that does it. Hence, I believe it’s the software.
Thanks,
DG Notes to CustomerMonday, January 19, 2009 7:33:59 AM PST
Dear Mr Graziani,
Many thanks for calling adobe Technical Support REF to an issue you encountered with Photoshop CS4 Brush tool
I have found the problem causing this and possible solutions please see below
NVidia’s multiple monitor software (NView) has caused many problems in the past. Could you switch that software off and let the OS manage the dual monitors and try again? Also, just to make sure, have the Cintiq tablet/monitor as the lone monitor by disconnecting the other monitor to see if that solves it. I doubt that the issue is due to the Cintiq specifically – it may have to do with the screen’s resolution but it would happen with any 13" monitor, not just the Cintiq.
If I can be any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact Adobe Technical Support
Warm Regards Ifty
Adobe Technical Support
Notes from CustomerFriday, January 9, 2009 7:42:40 AM PST issue restarted as soon as I re-started PS AttachmentsCS4—cintiq-12.jpg (view)
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