Moderator : suggest revisiting effective separation of Organizer questions

O
Posted By
o3v3tz
May 30, 2005
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3337
Replies
90
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Closed
Jim,

Now that I think that your schedule is not as hectic as it was earlier in the year, I suggest revisiting the topic of effective separation of Organizer questions. At the same time, I suggest considering techniques so that more people look at the FAQs before asking a question.

Adobe designated a separate subforum for Organizer questions, but many people just do not notice that subforum when asking their first question. Also people do not notice the FAQs.

As a comparison, when I look at the top of the Photoshop Windows forum (being a Windows person myself), I notice that it has text with direct click on links for the FAQs and for other related forums. I suggest that you consider such a block of text and links for the Photoshop Elements forum. I realize that not everyone will know whether their problem is an Organizer or an Editor problem. However, since they are separate Windows tasks, I think it is reasonable to direct anyone having a problem or question about something that happens in the Organizer workspace (Organizer windows task) to the Organizer subforum.

As a person often responding to Organizer questions and asking Editor questions, I think that everyone would benefit from more effective usage of the Organizer subforum. Also, everyone would benefit from more emphasis on the existence of the FAQs plus instructions to state their version of Elements and their operating system in the post.

Barb Olson

How to Master Sharpening in Photoshop

Give your photos a professional finish with sharpening in Photoshop. Learn to enhance details, create contrast, and prepare your images for print, web, and social media.

CW
Colin Walls
May 30, 2005
but many people just do not notice that subforum when asking their first question

Whilst I think you’re right in many cases, I think many new users of PSE, who have PSE 3 on Win do not see the logical separation of the 2 components. If you have come from a PSE+PSA environment, it still feels like we have 2 programs, but, without that background, maybe it doesn’t.
JJ
Jim_J
May 30, 2005
I see what you mean Barb. I like it and it places the links farther from the main part of the discussion.

Can I get suggestions from everyone as to the layout that they would like to see please?

For example, the following is what Barb is referring to. Clearly we would not need to refer to Adobe Bridge, but we might want to include Photshop Windows and Mac links because we often have people posting in the wrong forum. Not sure it’s necessary though.

Perhaps the following:

Welcome to the Adobe Photoshop Element Forum (for Mac OS and Windows platforms)

Before posting a question, <click here> (with appropriate tagging obviousl) to view the comprehensive Frequently Asked Questions which cover all the common and not so common issues. (Question… is it easier break it down here? or inside an overall FAQ section)

When posting a question, always indicate which version of Photoshop and Windows you are using.

<click here> for advice on How to ask your Question. Asking questions correctly will get you a quicker answer

<click here> to search Adobe’s Photoshop Elements Knowledgebase. <click here> for downloads and updates, including the Adobe Photoshop CS tryout

<click here> for the full version of Photoshop Macintosh Forum <click here> for the full version of Photoshop Windows Forum

Link to <Others???>

Link to <Adobe Photoshop Elements Organizer>

FWIW Barb, although my timing WAS better, one of my nannies is due to deliver her first baby this week, I have several assignments due and then after the baby is born, I lose all my childcare… Sigh, it never ends. 🙂

The good news is, as of August, I’m done school until at least Sept 2006. 🙂

Cheers
O
o3v3tz
Jun 3, 2005
Jim,

but we might want to include Photshop

I would say just talk about Elements because the number of posts here that are meant for full Photoshop are significantly less than the Organizer posts in the main forum.

Here is a first draft for text describing the Organizer subforum:

<click here> to ask about managing photos in the Elements 3 Windows Organizer workspace. This area includes questions on the Photo Browser, questions about Creations like slide shows or photo books or web gallery, and questions about the Elements Catalog, Backup or Archive.

Barb O
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 3, 2005
Thanks Barb,

Does NO one else have any comments on this? I’ll leave it until tomorrow and then if I don’t see any responses, either way just implement it and then you can tell me what you think.

Cheers
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 3, 2005
always indicate which version of Photoshop and Windows you are using

What about Mac OS version?

for downloads and updates, including the Adobe Photoshop CS tryout

Surely PSE tryout? [Or are we trying to get rid of people to CS? :-)]

As you know, I am of the opinion that having the Organizer subforum is futile, as the division between Editor and Organizer is closing and is only apparent to those of us with "history". New users [who need our help most] do not necessarily see the division at all. But that’s only my opinion.
ML
Michael_L._Edwards
Jun 3, 2005
Jim, since you fairly "pleaded" for comments, I have one.

I’m with Colin on this completely. The distinction between the organizer and the editor is not obvious to newcomers, for the reasons Colin stated. It seems likely to become even less distinct in future versions of the software with better integration of the two previously separate products.

As a user I’m put off by having "old hands" tell me, essentially, "You stupid nit, don’t you know anything? Ask your question in the correct obscure subgroup."

Mike E
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 3, 2005
My view is that the Organiser section and the Editor section should stay separate … they are two different things ….

One is a method of organising image and only used by some people.

The other is a Photo Editor and is used by most of us.

Whilst there may be a view that the "division between Editor and Organizer is closing and is only apparent to those of us with "history" …

People who choose to use another image storage system and Mac users don’t see it closing at all … 🙂 🙂

Wendy
RR
Raymond Robillard
Jun 3, 2005
I don’t know which method would work best but quite frankly, all those Organizer questions have kind of removed the fun of PSE. I don’t want to sound rude and I am not saying this because Adobe didn’t published PSA for Mac. There seem to be more questions about the organizer than the editor or editor related stuff.

Any way to separate these topics (in the subject line, for example) would be great.

Ray
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 4, 2005
Thanks everyone… I’ll digest this a bit and see what I can come up with later this evening when my brain has completely shut down. 😉

Cheers
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 5, 2005
Anyone else have any comments? I seem to have two for and two against…

My personal opinion is that this is one application and frankly there are only about 10 messages per day in the Organizer section… I don’t mind keeping it separate though if there are additional opinions on the matter.

I would see more logic in separating technical issues versus technique in PSE.

Cheers
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 5, 2005
I would see more logic in separating technical issues versus technique in PSE

That’s a very interesting idea.
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 5, 2005
Jim …

There may only be 10 messages per day in the organiser section but what about the ones that are posted on the main forum? 🙂

Wendy
BH
Beth_Haney
Jun 5, 2005
I think the "technical" versus "technique" concept is worth exploring more. Even though I wasn’t a very useful contributor to many of those threads on technique, I did learn a lot by reading through them and saving some for use later. Here lately, there hasn’t been a whole lot to learn in that regard, because the technical threads seem to far outnumber the ones for technique. It sure wouldn’t hurt to come up with an idea or two to breathe a little new spirit into the forum! Colin and I can only entertain people so long with our disagreements, you know; and when we agree and post essentially the same responses, it just gets duller and duller. 🙂
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 6, 2005
Beth… Rofl

Oh my goodness… I have a few tears from laughter on that one…

So Wendy would you be against something like a technical versus technique? My thinking is that it would be a very different restructuring of the forum, but at the sametime, I think some of the issues in either forum sometimes cross over… OR, when individuals ask questions about one (with respect to either technical or technique), it may cause other interesting questions…in both areas.

My concern (and maybe Barb O can comment on this, since she started it. 😉 ) is that if we were to break it up into Technique and Technical, that breaking the Technical into Organizer and Editor (or whatever we decide to make the categories)… it might be too much of a break down.

Barb,

Did you have any additional ideas? I’m discovering that I have a knack for complicating the simple.

Back to chemistry….

Cheers
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 6, 2005
Wendy,

You know the old image of the bad actor getting yanked off the stage by the really long cane??? 😉

Cheers
O
o3v3tz
Jun 6, 2005
Jim and everyone,

I have been thinking about the technique – technical split as I was out at various places today.

That approach sounds good to me because it will probably come closer to achieving the objective that I think people had in mind when they said last fall that they did not want the forum split between Windows and Mac.

My concern (and maybe Barb O can comment on this, since she started it. ) is that if we were to break it up into Technique and Technical, that breaking the Technical into Organizer and Editor (or whatever we decide to
make the categories)… it might be too much of a break down.

Jim – an alternate idea, have a common Editing Techniques and then split the Technical in to Windows and Mac – but do not have an additional split for the Organizer.

So three divisions –
-Technical – Mac
-Technical – Windows (which includes the Organizer)
-Photo Editing Techniques

Printing questions are a subject that crosses over categories and benefits from responses by people with the same or similar printer on either operating system. However, in this structure I guess they they would fall under technical for Mac or Windows.

What does everyone think?

Barb O
R
RobertHJones
Jun 6, 2005
What does everyone think?

While, on paper, that organization sounds pretty good, I think, in practice, it’s going to be overly complicated and confusing especially to those just starting (and we definitely get A LOT of newbie questions).

We’re having problems with people not using the organizer sub-forum. Think how much of a problem it’s going to be if they have to figure out whether something is a technical or technique question. Don’t laugh, I see it happening.

The technique issues are pretty much identical for all platforms. But, even on the technical side, there’s really not that much different between the two platforms. Other than Organizer related issues, the differences are mainly operating system issues and most of that could be placed in a faq (e.g. location of preferences files for manual deletion, common installation issues, etc.).

I believe in keeping it simple. Making more subdivisions, in my opinion, won’t necessarily make things better.

My two cents worth,
Bob
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 6, 2005
Jim,

I’m with Bob … about the Technical & Techniques. People have difficult deciding if their problems are organiser problems or not so what chance is there for Technical v Techniques.

On the wider issue … I do agree with Beth. The forum is getting very few queries now on how to do things using Elements … its mainly about how to install it, how to troubleshoot and Organiser problems.

I am seeing many more queries about creative techniques appearing on other forums.

Wendy
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 6, 2005
I was wondering whether having to make the choice at the top level would help. In other words, if, when you arrived at the forum you had the following choices:
PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1/2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Technical Issues/Queries [maybe one for Win and one for Mac] PSE and Digital Image techniques

This would force a choice, if there were no means of posting messages at this level.

I’m not saying that this would fix everything, but it might make people think.
O
o3v3tz
Jun 6, 2005
Jim, Colin, and everyone,

Since it is common in forums at other sites to be forced to make a decision on which subforum to enter your post, that does seem a reasonable approach here.

I do think that splitting Windows and Mac and including the Organizer within the Windows subforum (replacing its current subforum) is better than having one "Technical" covering both platforms. Of course, no solution is perfect….

Barb O
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 6, 2005
Barb

I think that having Organizer as a sub-sub-forum would probably mean that it never got used …

I’m a big believer in the KISS principle … 🙂
O
o3v3tz
Jun 6, 2005
Colin,

Perhaps my post implied the opposite of what I intended. I was not suggesting a sub-sub forum – but that there be a Windows Technical subforum which included the Organizer.

Barb
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 6, 2005
I read:

Windows Technical subforum which included the Organizer

as "have Organizer in a sub-forum of the Windows Technical sub-forum" which would make it a sub-sub-forum.
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 6, 2005
Barb …

I am not convinced about splitting Technical into two sub forums (Mac and Windows) …. its just that apart from Organiser quite a few of us answer queries on either platform. I have a whole load of cut and pastes for windows issues and they are well used.

I do like the idea of making people make a choice up front but would prefer to keep cross platform subforums … well apart from Organiser issues.

Wendy
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 6, 2005
Wendy

I think I agree with you. So you think the list should be:

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1/2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Editor Technical Issues/Queries
PSE Organizer Issues/Queries
PSE and Digital Image techniques
O
o3v3tz
Jun 6, 2005
Colin,

PSE Editor Technical Issues/Queries
PSE Organizer Issues/Queries

That does not seem to be consistent with your saying that new users don’t have the knowledge to identify whether their problem is is Organizer of Editor.

Barb
BH
Beth_Haney
Jun 6, 2005
I don’t disagree with Colin’s list, but I’m not sure it’ll accomplish what I think (there I go thinking again) people want to do. It looks like there could still be confusion in the minds of new users about the "breaking point" between Editor and Organizer. I’m wondering about:

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1&2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Software Troubleshooting
PSE Tips, Tools, and Techniques for Digital Imaging

???
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 6, 2005
Beth/Barb

I agree 100% with Beth’s list. This would be a very "clean" solution IMHO.

I was only maintaining the Org/editor split as I thought that’s what everyone [else] wanted. The logic being that, by having to make the "high level" decision people may think about if they’re in Org or Ed.

PS Beth – we seem to be agreeing again … Most odd. 🙂
O
o3v3tz
Jun 6, 2005
PSE Software Troubleshooting
PSE Tips, Tools, and Techniques for Digital Imaging

Beth, I can definitely agree with that breakdown.

My personal preference would still be platform specific for troubleshooting. However, since there is not a consensus on that point, I agree with keeping Software Troubleshooting as one platform independent area and Organizer not having a separate subforum.

Barb O
RR
Raymond Robillard
Jun 6, 2005
Here’s my vote (based upon Beth’s) :

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1&2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Organizer Software Troubleshooting / Error Message
PSE Editor Software Troubleshooting / Error Message
PSE Tips, Tools, How-To and Techniques for Digital Imaging

Ray
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 6, 2005
Okay,

A couple of common points that I am noticing thus far and they may seem obvious, but I’ll write them just to be clear:

We all want:

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1 & 2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Tips, Tools and Techniques

I’m not quite sure that we have agreement on how to break up the technical section because of platforms and organizer. I think that Wendy is quite correct, after a while, Mac folks likely have a lot to offer newbie windows folks because they’ve seen the same solutions over and over. The question then becomes, do we take the time to break out Organizer afterall? Or did Beth pretty much nail it.

I think I’ve missed something, but I’ll take a step back at this point and let you folks continue the discussion.

Cheers
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 6, 2005
bump… sorry Everyone… by the time I posted there were four other posts… I’ll retire for a while and come back.

Cheers
RR
Raymond Robillard
Jun 6, 2005
The goal of this "home redecorating" was to further enhance the presence of the Organizer forum, so I think it should be a category, at the top level.

Ray
BH
Beth_Haney
Jun 6, 2005
Ya know, Colin, maybe the world IS getting ready to end! 🙂 Nah, if anyone were to analyze the areas in which we disagree, they wouldn’t be too significant in the big scheme of things. I’m sure we just process information differently, so what seems "simple" to one of us is occasionally counterintuitive and somewhat clumsy to the other.

Barb, I think splitting the forum by platform would be a disservice to some posters, especially the new people who are kind of "frantic" because something quit working. Many of us by now are either moderately familiar with both Windows and Mac or, like Wendy, have made it a point to keep track of some common troubleshooting ideas for "the other side." There’s been more than once that regulars who use Windows weren’t around to answer simple questions, and a Mac user was able to help out. It’s worked the other way, too. But would a Mac user make it a point to regularly check out all posts on the Windows forum, or vice versa? That’s not too likely, since it would then mean monitoring three different forums instead of just two.

Now to see what Jim has to say. 🙂

Geez, by the time I got mine up there were six ahead of me!
O
o3v3tz
Jun 6, 2005
PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1&2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Software Troubleshooting
PSE Tips, Tools, and Techniques for Digital Imaging

I know this list is very different than my original suggestion. However, based on the input of everyone on this thread, I think it offers the best hope of managing forum questions.

Ray, I have backed off the separate Organizer because of multiple people saying it is too difficult for newbies to identify the source of their problem.

Waiting for Jim’s comment on this list …

Barb O

add by edit – I might say
PSE Photo Editing Tips, Tools, and Techniques for Digital Imaging but if others object to adding the word "Editing", I agree with omitting it.
GM
Gordon_McGilvray
Jun 6, 2005
As a Mac user reader and asker only (not answerer), here is my suggestion. Have one catagory only and put in bold capitals across the top: If your query is regarding Organizer please put "Organizer" in your title. If you a using a Mac please put "Mac" in your title. The issue of technical vs. techique I can figure out on my own.

Gordon
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 6, 2005
I much prefer either Colin’s list …

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1/2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Editor Technical Issues/Queries
PSE Organizer Issues/Queries
PSE and Digital Image techniques

or Ray’s (based on Beth’s) 🙂

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1&2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Organizer Software Troubleshooting / Error Message
PSE Editor Software Troubleshooting / Error Message
PSE Tips, Tools, How-To and Techniques for Digital Imaging

…. and I really do think that Organiser issues should be kept in a section all of their own.

I do think that the idea of having to make the choice up front is a great one and (hopefully) believe that it will solve some of the problems 🙂

Wendy
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 6, 2005
Jim …

…. your list totally confused me 🙂 🙂

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1 & 2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Tips, Tools and Techniques

It didn’t seem to cover anything except the editing side 🙂 🙂 … 🙂 🙂

Wendy
KS
Karin_Sue
Jun 6, 2005
I am fairly new to the forum but will throw in my 2 cents.

I agree with Gordon. I’d like to see the active forum be one big one and encourage people to be more specific in their subject lines and give pertinent details (OS, PE version, Printer, Error Message, etc.) in their questions.

Maybe the FAQs should be split into the various technical/software/troubleshooting/editing tips, etc.

BTW I see reset the preferences often as a possible solution, but no FAQ on "How to reset the preferences"
ML
Michael_L._Edwards
Jun 6, 2005
I vote for Barb O’s suggestion in msg #35.

Mike E
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 7, 2005
Quick FYI,

I’ll be out of commission tomorrow. No computer and lots of classes etc.

Cheers
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 7, 2005
Wendy,

My list wasn’t intended to be in any particular order… just included where there appeared to be consistencies. Did I miss anything? Keep in mind, I’ll be out of commission until Thursday after this post.

Here are a couple of sample lists that I am seeing:

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1/2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Editor Technical Issues/Queries
PSE Organizer Issues/Queries
PSE and Digital Image techniques

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1&2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Organizer Software Troubleshooting / Error Message
PSE Editor Software Troubleshooting / Error Message
PSE Tips, Tools, How-To and Techniques for Digital Imaging

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1&2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Software Troubleshooting
PSE Tips, Tools, and Techniques for Digital Imaging or
PSE Photo Editing Tips, Tools, and Techniques for Digital Imaging Cheers
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 7, 2005
Jim,

I’m with either of the top two 🙂

Wendy
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 7, 2005
I’m with the first, simply because the lines of text are shorter. Bolding the words "Editor" and "Organizer" might be good.
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 7, 2005
Like the idea of making Editor & Organiser in Bold …

Wendy
C
Codebreaker
Jun 7, 2005
It’s obvious that there will never be a ‘One size fits all’ solution and we’ll just have to try something and see how it pans out.

Anyway and FWIW, here are my comments…..

Keep it simple..I would guess we’re all annoyed by multiple choice telephone answering systems and having to figure out where to post, or where to read up on a topic is going to cause some confusion.

There are many folk I’m sure who just sit in the background to listen and learn and I’m worried that these folks wont be served too well if there are too many sub forums to watch…..if they can figure out which one.

I’m equally convinced that many new folk wont be able to tell the difference between an Organiser or Editor issue…after all E3 is just one program….nor whether they have a technical or technique problem.

I’m personnaly in favour of Jim’s list below…

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1 & 2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Tips, Tools and Techniques

I think we should also encourage people to search the forum more. There are the same topics coming up over and over again…yes most are in the FAQs but it’s easier to post a new one and then wait for someone to answer than it is to search or read FAQs.

Here’s another thought….maybe some of us need to be premptive in posting techniques rather than responding to ‘people in trouble’. If we have a technique we think is rather cool, what not tell the world.

Enough!!!! 🙂

Colin #2
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 7, 2005
Colin 2 …

If you have:

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1 & 2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Tips, Tools and Techniques

…. where do Organiser and Technical queries go??? … doesn’t seem to fit in Tips, Tools and Techniques. 🙂 🙂 … which is just what I said to Jim earlier 🙂 🙂

Wendy
C
Codebreaker
Jun 7, 2005
Wendy….

I understand your concerns but it’s my belief that many new folks can’t differentiate between them anyway. If you look at the number of queries that come in to which the first response is……Is this Editor or Oganiser?

Similarly I just don’t believe many new folks could tell the difference between technique and technical. The words even have the same root…:-)

I’m just glad it’s Jim’s decision as to how we go……:-)

Maybe we need two groups….First Timers and Old Lags!!

:-):-)

Colin #2
TR
Tricia_Roush
Jun 7, 2005
Okay,

As I sometimes participate, I think I’ll give my 2 cents worth…

I think the simpler the better. I like:

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1 & 2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Tips, Tools and Techniques

Perhaps, though, just call it the last one "PSE Help". Sometimes you need help with a bug/problem. Other times you need help "removing that gate so you can see what’s behind it" ;-). Or "PSE Help, Tips, Etc." with a nice note at the top:

"Welcome to the Photoshop Elements forum. Please review the FAQs and use the search tool before posting. When posting, please include your version of PSE, your Operating System (Mac/Windows), and subject of your problem (Error Message, Printing Problem, Tool Help, Organizer, Editor). For example:

PSE 2.0, Win XP, Editor Tool Help: Magnetic Lasso"

Might even want a link to the knowledge base for bugs. Just a thought. Just let us know, as those of us who use news readers will need to re-subscribe to the forums.

I agree with what someone else said, most people who come are frantic, and don’t see the Organizer break-out and just post hoping that they will find a quick solution.

-Trish
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 7, 2005
Very clear thinking Trish.
KL
Kenneth_Liffmann
Jun 7, 2005
I think that the format proposed by Trish is pragmatic, as it will direct an inquiry with focus. Ken
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 7, 2005
Maybe I am missing something here but if I saw a list that said:

PSE 3 FAQ
PSE 1 & 2 FAQ
PSE Feature Requests
PSE Tips, Tools and Techniques

I wouldn’t know where I was supposed to post things like installation problems, organiser problems … or any type of problems/queries ….

They don’t seem to fit in FAQ, or Feature requests … and they certainly are nor Tips, Tools and Techniques.

Am I missing something 🙁

Wendy
TR
Tricia_Roush
Jun 7, 2005
Wendy,

Not sure.. Like I said in my other post, rename "PSE Tips, Tools, and Techniques" To "PSE Help, Tips, Etc." Although large and tougher to manage from the moderator and regulars to this group, I think it is easier for people looking for help to find the right place.

One thing I have noticed is how many help requests do end up in the "Feature Requests" forum. Perhaps it should be listed last.

-Trish
BH
Beth_Haney
Jun 7, 2005
If this is going to be simplified, take it down another notch. My guess is there are plenty of people who don’t even know what "FAQ" stands for. Elements has been marketed as an easy to use piece of software for the novice. Reread some of these posts, and you’ll see remarks such as "computer illiterate", "never used a forum before", and so on.

I’d still like to see a separation between the areas for troubleshooting and the area for techniques, but if the group doesn’t want that split, at least reword the titles to the other areas so newcomers don’t have to guess about where to post their query.

"Check here first for answers to commonly asked questions about using the software."

"What would you like to see added to future versions?"

It’s not ideal, but it may get some people up and running a little faster and reduce the clutter. Or not.
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 8, 2005
Okay… I got back home earlier than expected… hmmm… see, only 11:00 pm.

I had another thought. I like the idea of simplicity, but can see Wendy’s point about directing people. I wonder about putting a brief blurb underneathe each like a sample question:

PSE Version 3 – Frequently Asked Questions (Self-Explanatory I think)

PSE Version 1 and 2 – Frequently Asked Questions

PSE Feature Requests
– Example – I would like to see something added to the next version of Photoshop Elements because….

PSE Technical Issues/Queries
– Example – My software won’t do what I expect it to do, or it won’t run properly

PSE and Digital Image techniques (OR PSE Tips, Tools, How-To and Techniques for Digital Imaging)
– Example – I would like to do a really neat thing to my picture, can someone tell me how?

What does everyone think of these categories. Obviously the language would need to be cleaned up along with the format… but conceptually, what do people think?

Cheers
O
o3v3tz
Jun 8, 2005
I suggest that several people post some feedback on the wording I proposed for the Organizer subforum. My attempt is to guide people based on the function they are using in addition to the fact that in Elements 3 the title bar says "Organizer" versus "Editor". Do you think this wording will be effective and how can it be improved?

<click here> to ask about managing photos in the Elements 3 Windows Organizer workspace. This area includes questions on the Photo Browser and Tags or Collections, questions about Creations like slide shows or photo books or web gallery, and questions about the Elements Catalog, Backup or Archive.

Barb O

jim- you slipped in there when I was interrupted for awhile so I did not see your post before mine.
O
o3v3tz
Jun 8, 2005
Back inmessage 53, Tricia said

One thing I have noticed is how many help requests do end up in the "Feature Requests" forum. Perhaps it should be listed last.

I think that is a good idea.

Barb O
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 8, 2005
Jim,

Beth has a good point about people not understanding things like FAQ and I like your idea of how to overcome it. I also like the categories you have come up with 🙂

Wendy
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 8, 2005
I think Beth is on to something. Maybe if the "master page contained entries like this:

For answers to commonly asked questions about using the software, go HERE. To say would you like to see added to future versions, go HERE

Make the "HERE" strings the hyperlinks to subforums. Guess you get the idea …
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 8, 2005
Colin …

Good idea !!

Wendy
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 8, 2005
Barb,

Excellent idea. I think that is best for two reasons:

1. Most people don’t come looking to make recommendations when they first get here, it is for technical assistance (that was my experience too).
2. Your reasoning is sound. Even if one doesn’t intent to post there, if
they are in a hurry (and they often are when in trouble), they will simply click and type without considering that they might have made an error.

Next point…

I like the Answers to Commonly Asked Questions as well… although we are used to it, perhaps a new person might see more logic in the word common.

Let me know about wording on the rest, but I think we’re pretty close to a resolution here.

Photoshop Elements Version 3 – Answers to Commonly/Frequently Asked Questions
Check this section first before posting a question if you have version 3. The answer might already be here for you.

PSE Version 1 and 2 – Frequently Asked Questions
Check this section first before posting a question if you have version 3.

PSE Technical Issues/Queries
Sample Question – My software won’t do what I expect it to do, or it won’t run
properly

PSE Tips, Tools, How-To and Techniques for Digital Imaging Sample Question – I would like to do a really neat thing to my picture, can someone tell me how?

PSE Feature Requests
Sample Question – I would like to see something added to the next version of Photoshop Elements because….

Cheers
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 8, 2005
Forgot to mention, my notebook is unavailable in the daytime and I’m off to school after lunch… so it will be evening before I post again… (unless I sneak in one more time at lunchtime).

Cheers
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 8, 2005
I really think that all the samples questions and so forth would make th eentry page to the forum overly complex. A visitor will just get buried in all those words. I stand by my latest proposal in post #59.
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 8, 2005
I’m willing to give the long version a go …

After all it can always be changed afterwards 🙂

Wendy
GM
Gordon_McGilvray
Jun 8, 2005
The knowedgable people who generously volunteer their time to help the rest of us want to sub-categorize this forum. I glady defer. But, I do have one selfish request. As Mac user it would be immensely helpful to me if in your Technical sub-category description you put, "Mac users are advised to put ‘Mac’ in your title, as you will get a faster reponse." I have no doubt that this is true.

Gordon
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 8, 2005
Gordon …

I think that most of us tend to read them all anyway 🙂 … but it really does help when people specify the plaform 🙂

Wendy
GM
Gordon_McGilvray
Jun 8, 2005
Wendy

I did not spell out the selfish part of my request. Most of technical questions are necessarily PC questions. Having the Mac technical questions flagged would be of immense help to the Mac reader, if not the Mac asker. The Mac reader can then eliminate from the title most of the non-Mac-flagged questions. And, visa-versa for PC users. Also, many is the time have I read a thread where the responder suddenly broke off upon realizing that this was a Mac question and called for a Mac expert to pick up the thread.

Gordon
O
o3v3tz
Jun 8, 2005
Jim,

I like the "long format" (your samples in message 61) – as long as there is a link imbedded within the text, so that people do not need to search a separate list to find a folder.

Additionally, I agree with Gordon’s comment to recommend that people to identify Mac (or Windows) in the subject line of technical questions.

Barb O
RR
Raymond Robillard
Jun 8, 2005
I vote for the long version I well. Better more than not enough!

Ray
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 9, 2005
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Okay… so what if I indented the sample questions so that people would only HAVE to read the titles and consider the samples for the forums that they thought they needed/wanted to use as follows:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>Photoshop Elements Version 3 – Answers to Commonly/Frequently Asked Questions</STRONG><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Check
this section first before posting a question if you have version 3.&nbsp; The answer might already be here for you.<BR><BR><STRONG>Photoshop Elements&nbsp;Versions 1 and 2 – Frequently Asked
Questions</STRONG><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Check this section first before
posting a question if you have version 3.<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG><EM>For the following sections, if you are
using a Mac, please put MAC in the title of your
post.</EM></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG><EM></EM></STRONG><BR><STRONG>Photoshop
Elements (All versions)&nbsp;Technical
Issues/Queries</STRONG><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sample Question – My
software won’t do what I expect it to do, or it won’t run properly<BR><BR><STRONG>Photoshop Elements (All versions) Tips, Tools, How-To and Techniques for Digital Imaging</STRONG><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sample
Question – I would like to do a really neat thing to my picture, can someone tell me how?<BR><BR><STRONG>PSE Feature Requests </STRONG><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sample Question – I would like to see
something added to the next version of Photoshop Elements because….<BR><BR>Not sure I care for the Mac in the title even though I understand the logic. At this point, I think Colin is right… it’s getting pretty expansive.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Any additional comments?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cheers</DIV></FONT>
O
o3v3tz
Jun 9, 2005
Jim,

I like your layout and your use of Bold.

But I don’t like the positioning of the "if you are using a Mac".

Since it seems that stating Mac (or Windows) is most important for Technical Issues, I suggest that there be a third line for just that topic –

When posting, please say Mac or Windows in the subject line.

We know that not everyone will include their platform but I think it will help if present. Actually, I wish the forum software would enforce entering of platform and the version of the Adobe product; that of course is an entirely different discussion.

typo

Photoshop Elements Versions 1 and 2 – Frequently Asked Questions Check this section first before posting a question if you have version 3.

says version 3 – but should be 1 or 2

Barb O
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 9, 2005
Jim

I think this is nearly there. I don’t see why Feature Requests need Mac/Windows annotation. Maybe you could simply move this line to just below the FAQs and above the Mac/Windows reminder. So you’d end up with this:

Photoshop Elements Version 3 – Answers to Commonly/Frequently Asked Questions Check this section first before posting a question if you have version 3. The answer might already be here for you.
Photoshop Elements Versions 1 and 2 – Commonly/Frequently Asked Questions Check this section first before posting a question if you have version 1 or 2.

Photoshop Elements Feature Requests
Sample Question – I would like to see something added to the next version of Photoshop Elements because….

For the following sections, if you are using a Mac, please put MAC in the title of your post:

Photoshop Elements (All versions) Technical Issues/Queries Sample Question – My software won’t do what I expect it to do, or it won’t run properly

Photoshop Elements (All versions) Tips, Tools, How-To and Techniques for Digital Imaging Sample Question – I would like to do a really neat thing to my picture, can someone tell me how?
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 9, 2005
Fine by me … but I’m not that keen on the "put Mac" in the title.

Its just adding more layers to the titles and the more lines the more chance of people becoming confused …

Additionally I don’t think it will save much … a lot of technical problems are cross platform and most of the editing side is identical.

Plus if we do need to know the platform then we probably need to know the Operating System etc … same thing applies to anyone using Windows.

On that basis I think it becomes a distraction and don’t believe that it adds anything.

Wendy
GM
Gordon_McGilvray
Jun 9, 2005
The fundamental question is to whom does the Forum belong? Primariiy it is the Askers and Answerers. However, the overwhelming majority of people reading the Forum are Readers. Unlike the Answerers they do not want to read all queries, and would appreciate help in their triage. Knowing whether a given question concerns a Mac or not would be of help in their endeavor.

Gordon
RR
Raymond Robillard
Jun 9, 2005
Fine by me … but I’m not that keen on the "put Mac" in the title.

I am with Wendy on this. It’s a kind

Picture this : MAC – How to remove a colour cast ?
Win – I can’t centre text on my document… HELP

Both subject would be ignored by the other "side", but the answer could have been given by everyone. And some of us, Mac users, have a secret winthing life… 🙂 I have PSE2 for Windows, ready to serve on my Mac using Virtual PC. And if someone finds a OEM PSE3 version which he / she doesn’t need, I’d be interested!

And, I insist, we should really separate the Organizer from Photoshop Elements.

And to further simplify things, I’d merge the 2 FAQs into one. However, I’d put in the topic line of each thread the version for which a FAQ clipping applies (i.e. PSE2 – How to beautify your life, PSE1 – How to trim the grass, PSE3 How to print Bingo cards, etc.). Point is, a FAQ is a FAQ, no matter which version it applies to.

Ray
C
Codebreaker
Jun 9, 2005
Who was it that said…’you can please some of the people some of the time but you cant please all of the people, all of the time.,

Or some thing to that affect.

🙂 🙂

Colin
BH
Beth_Haney
Jun 9, 2005
Instead of:

For the following sections, if you are using a Mac, please put MAC in the title of your post:

(sorry I refuse to remember my HTML this early) substitute

For posts made in the following sections, please list in the Subject line the system you use (Windows XP Home, Mac 10.3.9, etc.) and the version number of Elements that you’re using.

——

And also please note it’s "Mac", not "MAC", just like it’s "Win" and not "WIN". 🙂
BB
Barbara_Brundage
Jun 9, 2005
And also please note it’s "Mac", not "MAC", just like it’s "Win" and not
"WIN". 🙂

Yes, even the Windows crowd all have MACs. 🙂
CW
Colin Walls
Jun 9, 2005
I would always spell it "WINDOWS" – as it’s usually a shout and preceeded by "%%&$$**!". 🙂
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 9, 2005
Gordon,

"However, the overwhelming majority of people reading the Forum are Readers. Unlike the Answerers they do not want to read all queries, and would appreciate help in their triage. "

Thanks for the comment Gordon … just one very minor point. Without the answerers there wouldn’t be a forum 🙂

Wendy
BH
Beth_Haney
Jun 9, 2005
We don’t shout as often, Colin, especially not preceeded by all those funny little unpronounceables. 🙂 Not to say I’ve never shouted, of course!

Which reminds me that I still haven’t been able to figure out why my Dell won’t go online. 🙁
KS
Karin_Sue
Jun 9, 2005
Going back to message #2 where the PS forum introduction is referenced:

"<click here> for advice on How to ask your Question. Asking questions correctly will get you a quicker answer."

I checked this out and it is a really nice feature that I think would be useful on this forum. It reminds people to search the forum, check the FAQs, and the Help feature before posting. When posting it talks about using significant subject lines and including platform, os version, program version, error message, etc. Then it tacks on a little Netiquette section which is nice.

Again back to message 2 as to appropriate possible links, how about a link to the Album forum?

Finally, how about a References section? This could list links to the book websites, and some of the PSE tutorial pages, and Photography tip pages, etc. These pop up in posts fairly frequently and it would be nice to have them in one place to make them easy to find.
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 9, 2005
Karin,

I was thinking of first getting the order of the forums and then linking this the way Barb initially thought of it.

All,

I think the Mac/Win stuff is really only relevant to technical questions. For example, I find people using Win ME predictably having resource issue (Jim puts on flame retardant suit for Win ME fans… and promptly takes it off realizing that there is no such thing as an ME fan).

Heading out to class… so I’ll try and look again tonight for additional comments.

Oh… one last point, there will be a delay in the time that we actually decide. I want to run the ideas by the folks at Adobe because they obviously also come in from time to time and we will affect their set up.

Cheers
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 10, 2005
Jim,

I seem to remember that it was Adobe that originally wanted a separate Organiser organiser section …

Wendy
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 10, 2005
Perhaps… but if it confuses us… I think we can argue against it. OR… put it inside of the technical forum as a sub-forum near the top the way it currently is… That way people can see immediately upon entry that there is a difference, but not be intimidated by the number of forums at the outset.

Hope that makes sense… I’ve been studying a LOT of chemistry mechanisms. Good thing we don’t have to sample what we learn… My brain would be dead. 😉

Cheers
BB
Barbara_Brundage
Jun 10, 2005
Hi, Wendy. Adobe wanted separate mac and win forums.
WE
Wendy_E_Williams
Jun 10, 2005
Barbara …

I was avoiding mentioning that part of Adobe’s original plan … seeing that we fought that battle and won 🙂

Wendy
BB
Barbara_Brundage
Jun 10, 2005
🙂
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 10, 2005
Double grins… 🙂
Cheers
JJ
Jim_J
Jun 11, 2005
Of course… All comments are welcome. 🙂

There isn’t really anything I can do about the "main" list… Admittedly it is huge. Can you clarify what you mean by separation? Do you mean in what the person sees as they enter the forums? If so… the separation would NOT be until the person was INTO the PSE Win/Mac Forum. Part of what I am doing here is creating individual PSE Sub-Forums…. So for example, we would have PSE Mac & Win on the main board and then begin to break it down from there. I hope that that is what everyone else understood. I think it would be a nightmare to have all of these on the main board.

Ideally, having the FAQ on top will allow us to filter questions from people who know how to use this sort of service and if they are simply too intimidated… immediately below, they will see that they can put their OS into the title for technical issues.

My thinking (and I could be wrong) is that people looking for tips are likely more familiar or at least more comfortable with this sort of arrangement and can proceed one more line down.

Someone, I forget now, made a very good point in keeping the feature requests on the bottom to avoid "issues" getting put in as requests. I think in addition to this, that having it down that far we will only have people that have used it enough to know the limitations (vice not have experience to know that a feature may already exist in the software) and then submit the request.

As to what will appear on NewsReaders… these will all end up showing up once we have decided on the format. I simply have to create them once we’re done.

Hope that helps… as I say… ALL comments are welcome. I may not be able to satisfy everyone… but I’m willing to try. 🙂

Cheers

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