Profiles, Total Ink Weight and Gamut Warnings

T
Posted By
Tele2002
Dec 24, 2008
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908
Replies
12
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Closed
Hi all, when you assign a profile to an image you are able create new colours, or apply colour correction curves without it warning you that the image is then over inked for the process you have applied the profile for….. I’m sure this wasn’t the way it used to be.

Anyone help me out here, as one of the most important parts of a gamut warning is that your images don’t contain too much ink for your printing process……

Help…!!
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Rick McCleary
Dec 24, 2008
There is no equivalent to the gamut warning overlay for total ink limit (nor has there ever been.)

Use the Total Ink readout in the Info Panel to read total ink percentage. A bit clunky, but it works.
PF
Peter_Figen
Dec 24, 2008
If you’re savvy enough to know when to use Assign Profile, then Total Ink amounts shouldn’t be much of an issue, although simply assigning a new profile does not change the numbers at all.

Part of your job preparing files, is, of course to check all pertinent aspect of your ink distribution. I don’t even find the Total Ink readout as clunky as Rick might.
T
Tele2002
Dec 24, 2008
Guys, maybe I haven’t been clear enough with my description, but thanks Peter your right I am savvy enough with Photoshop and tried plenty of things before posting here, even past it to another vetran of the industry to see what he thought.
I do agree that the operators should be checking all imagery to be within print spec, and that should be part of the prepress/premedia workflow, or that we would use late binding colour management to correct our imagery.

Ok, so lets make the assumptions.

Gamut warning should show us what is reproduceible within the colour profile that we are using. Correct?

A profile is a characterization of a printing condition we would like our image to be reproduced on. Correct?

Why then does Photoshop allow you to create 100c 100m 100y 100k and not display it as out of gamut when our profile is set to have a total ink of lets say 350%

Or am I missing something? I’m thinking that the out of gamut would work similar to the total ink weight warning in Acrobat….

Or maybe this is a new feature that could be in CS5…..
GB
g_ballard
Dec 24, 2008
my description

Assign probably has a different meaning here that how you are using it.

I would look more at the profile you are using for a guide to target CMYK percentages, and as Rick and Peter pointed out, the Info pallet to inspect problems areas.

Gamut Warning is a whole other subject…it gives me a pretty big clue, but Converting to the CMYK space and observing the hardware-calibrated proofing monitor is more valuable to [me].
PF
Peter_Figen
Dec 24, 2008
Unfortunately, Photoshop does not prevent the user from doing things they shouldn’t. There probably are some practical limits to what the destination profile can show you once you’ve converted to that space. In theory, once you’re in the destination space, that profile will show you within limits what you can expect on press.

The gamut warning feature, in many opinions, has never worked very well, only showing you that areas are out of gamut, but never by how much. Your 400% ink example doesn’t represent an out of gamut color so much as a total ink that is too high. You can still print that as long as it’s not too big an area.
GB
g_ballard
Dec 24, 2008
once you’re in the destination space, that profile will show you within
limits what you can expect on press.

That is really the nutshell.

For me it boils down to having a trustworthy monitor to evaluate the source file and training my eye for press expectations (but I work visually in CMYK, not by the numbers, and don’t do too many CMYK jobs).

For example, if I am working in 16-bit Adobe RGB and get unwanted Gamut Warnings (Command+Shift+Y) based on my Proof SetUp setting (View> Proof SetUp: profile),

I would likely have a look in "Soft Proof" mode (View> Proof SetUp> Target CMYK profile/space) before I Converted to it and Saved out the production file.

By fixing the problems in 16-bit RGB, I preserve that much more information before Converting to CMYK — versus hammering out the corrections in 8-bit CMYK and degrading the more limited color information of the smaller color space).

The trouble I’ve seen in print shops is they aren’t up on what happens in Photoshop when we ignore/strip/don’t manage profiles, then they go to work on my color to get it hammered back into their workflow and resaved…
T
Tele2002
Dec 24, 2008
Agree with what’s being said and yes I understand what the gamut warning is meant to be used for, , I also completely understand the use of assigning and converting to profiles, and yes I know that a press can produce 400%

So it would be a nice feature for CS5 to have a total ink coverage warning similar to Acrobat.

What do you think?
GB
g_ballard
Dec 24, 2008
very well said…did you see <http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.eeadb1c/>
RM
Rick McCleary
Dec 24, 2008
So it would be a nice feature for CS5 to have a total ink coverage warning similar to Acrobat.

Yes, I guess. But, as Peter said, having that warning will not prevent a determined user from dumping 400% ink into the RIP. And the Info Panel works great as is.

Also, as has been pointed out, color gamut and ink density are mutually exclusive. 400% ink is within the gamut of any color space.
T
Tele2002
Dec 25, 2008
Your right it wouldn’t stop a user, but Photoshop isn’t about limiting a user, but supplying them with the tools for creation.

Thanks for the link I’ll post the suggestion in there…. as I’d also like to see devicelink or same profile separations possible.
PF
Peter_Figen
Dec 25, 2008
CS4 can now use Device Link Profiles. What do you mean by same profile separations?
T
Tele2002
Dec 25, 2008
Ah well my appologies I haven’t come across it yet so will have to take a read on the devicelink front and see how it works as it may actually answer the part about the profile reseparation as well.

Thanks for everyone input.

Merry Christmas

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