CS3 Smart Sharpen Problems

DR
Posted By
David_Ritch
Apr 18, 2007
Views
729
Replies
15
Status
Closed
I posted this in the CS3 beta forum in February, and it’s still a problem in the released version of CS3. Smart Sharpen has become much slower, and appears to generate noise.

I opened an image from a Canon EOS 5D, and sharpened it with Smart Sharpen in CS2. It took slightly less than 15 seconds. I opened the same image in CS3, and sharpened it with the same seconds, and it took about 45 seconds. Further, the resulting image has more noise than the same in CS2; however, I have not yet verified whether the change in noise is from ACR or Smart Sharpen.

I’m running Windows XP Pro SP2 (32-bit), on an AMD64 X2 3800, with 2GB of memory. I’m using a Raptor for my system drive, and my PS scratch is on a dedicated Seagate Barracuda. The Preferences Performance dialog indicates 1717MB of free RAM, and PS is configured to use up tp 1287 (75%). History is set to 20 states, and 6 Cache Levels. I have my image files on two filesystems. Each is 2 Barracudas, striped together. Typically, I keep raw files on one, and process to TIF or PSD on the other.

I’m running Smart Sharpen with Amount: 85, Radius 0.3, Lens Blur, More Accurate, Shadow Fade Amount 50, Tone Width 30%, Radius 15, Highlight Fade Amount 50, Tone Width 30%, Radius 15. The difference in speed is considerably more dramatic when the Radii for Highlight and Shadow Fade are increased. When I had them at 60, CS3 took about 4 1/2 minutes to do a Smart Sharpen. That’s not workable for interactive use.

There was a known and acknowledged problem with Smart Sharpen in the beta release – it generated rather nasty artifacts. I thought it was supposed to have been fixed in the released version. Is it possible that I somehow have an old version of it? I removed the beta before installing the released CS3. Is it possible that the update didn’t make it into the released version that was available for download on Monday?
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LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Apr 18, 2007
I’ve had neither nasty artifacts or slow operation in CS3. My levels run a bit higher than yours and at times, I have gone almost to 100 with Highlight fade, in eather CS2 or 3.

I am also using an AMD processor
AJ
Adam_Jerugim
Apr 18, 2007
David,

I’ve tried Smart Sharpen with a 5D image (8bit & 16bit) in both CS2 and CS3. I’m using a quad Athlon64 FX-72 system w/4GB RAM, Windows XP Sp2.

I found that CS3 is slightly faster than CS2 using your Smart Sharpen settings with 8bit images, and CS3 is slightly slower than CS2 using your settings with 16bit images (the difference is ~2 seconds on a ~20 sec operation, less than a 10% difference).

I’m going to check another AMD system to see if I can reproduce the 3x slowdown you’re seeing…

-Adam
KC
Kent_C
Apr 19, 2007
Turn off ‘more accurate’. All that does is run the filter twice, also imparts artifacts except at real low settings.
DR
David_Ritch
Apr 19, 2007
Thanks for your comments. I wonder if I somehow have an older library from the beta, or have some sort of system library mismatch. Windows can be somewhat nasty about that.

Adam – I’ll be very interested to hear whether you can reproduce the slowdown.

Lawrence – have you used the CS3 beta without artifacts? I use Smart Sharpen as part of my usual workflow, and decided the beta was not usable for me because of the performance and the artifacts. It was my understanding that it was supposed to have been fixed in the commercial release.

I’ll try removing it again, and re-installing….

David
RB
Robert_Barnett
Apr 19, 2007
Where do you pull it it runs it twice out of? I know Adobe has never said that and has infact said to use it as has just about every book and video out that covers smart sharpen. So where did you get this information from? I suspect it was pulled from a place the sun doesn’t get to very often!

Robert
KC
Kent_C
Apr 19, 2007
Robert Barnett wrote:
"Where do you pull it it runs it twice out of? I know Adobe has never said that and has infact said to use it as has just about every book and video out that covers smart sharpen. So where did you get this information from? I suspect it was pulled from a place the sun doesn’t get to very often!"

< http://www.popphoto.com/howto/2200/inside-photoshop-using-cs 2s-smart-sharpen-filter.html?print_page=y>
Katrin Eismann:
“More Accurate: Processes the file twice for better removal of blur and enhanced sharpness.”

< http://www.adobepress.com/articles/article.asp?p=441754& seqNum=8&rl=1> “The More Accurate option runs the filter in two passes.”

Bruce Fraser: “More accurate” feature applies multiple iterations of sharpening.”

Ben Willmore: “More Accurate checkbox will make Photoshop sharpen the image in two passes rather than one.”
C
chrisjbirchall
Apr 19, 2007
So I guess Robert is regretting being so sharp in post #5 – or more accurately being so smart on his last sentence. 😉
DR
David_Ritch
Apr 19, 2007
I appreciate the suggestions for optimization, such as turning off "More Accurate". And incidentally, the references listed from popphoto and adobe press both recommend leaving it turned on.

However, the same issues apply to CS2, and this does not address the issue of the 3x or more slowdown between CS2 and CS3.

Any ideas on that? Is anyone else experiencing this?

I tried turning off my virus-scanning software (avast), and it made no difference. With that off, I uninstalled CS3, and reinstalled it. No change. I’m not sure where to look next…

dbr
KC
Kent_C
Apr 19, 2007
Hi chris,

"So I guess Robert is regretting being so sharp in post #5"

He may be rechecking those books and videos. Wait, I think he found it:

<http://www.xerratus.com/CategoryView,category,Photo.aspx>
C
chrisjbirchall
Apr 19, 2007
Damn you Kent. Don’t you now how difficult it is getting sprayed coffee off a screen and keyboard?!

😉
GJ
gary.jean
Apr 19, 2007
More accurate?

Even PS guru Deke McClelland says to turn "More accurate off."

In his words it "…does a more deadly job of sharpening…" artifacts, and does "…more noise enhancing."

Personally, I have not found a situation where "more accurate" is useful. It certainly adds to processing time though.

< http://www.photoshopsupport.com/tutorials/tt-cs2/smart-sharp en-tutorial.html>
RB
Robert_Barnett
Apr 19, 2007
Yet none of those say anything about applying Smart Sharpen twice? They do indicate that with the option checked Smart Sharpen sharpens in two passes that doesn’t mean it is sharpening the same parts of the image in two passes which is what the OP indicated. Having two pass sharpening one for edges and one for fine details is a very far cry from sharpening the same things twice.

Robert
AJ
Adam_Jerugim
Apr 19, 2007
I’ve now had a chance to test this on an Athlon 64 x 2 4400+ (2.2GHz, 2GB RAM, Windows XP Sp2). On that system I ran two sets of tests. The first had PS RAM @ 75%, the second had PS RAM @ 55%.

With 8bit files (from 5D RAW), I’ve found that the times, while slower in CS3, are less than 1 second slower total out of a nearly 20 second operation. With 16bit files (from the same 5D RAW source), I’m seeing a little bit more of a difference, but only a few seconds slower in CS3, not 3x slower (~62 secs in CS2 vs ~68 secs in CS3).
DR
David_Ritch
Apr 20, 2007
I feel really silly. Part of the difference I saw between CS2 and CS3 was user error. I *never* convert to 8-bit files, but somehow, I ACR was set to 8-bit, and I didn’t realize it.

However, my times are still quite a bit slower in CS3 – with 16-bit files in both. And the difference in performance due to "More Accurate" is really not very dramatic. In CS2, I saw 34 seconds with "More Accurate" and 32 without. Using the same image, in CS3, I saw 43 seconds with "More Accurate", and 37 without.

I first ran into this when I was using different Highlight and Shadow settings – 50%, 50%, and 60 pixels or so – and CS3 goes nuts. The user interface flashes, and the smart sharpen itself takes several minutes. I timed it a few times at 4 minutes 40 seconds. I see now – when I eliminate my dumb user error – similar performance between CS2 and CS3, including the screen flashes and temporary loss of mouse control.

This is rather disappointing. In addition to publicly making a rather silly mistake, I was pleased with the performance I saw for smart sharpen in CS2. Well – so much for that.

PhotoKit Sharpener works well with the current output from ACR, and is *much* faster (about 8 seconds). It’s rather harsh, though, on the output from Capture One, and I like Smart Sharpen for that.
LH
Lawrence_Hudetz
Apr 20, 2007
When I sharpen in either CS2 or 3 (Beta), I am but using a small amount of sharpening, like Amount 100 and radius at 0.5 or so. If the image has broad areas and not highly detailed, then I can go even to a radius of 1.5 and Amount 200, but that’s rare. Both 2 and 3 look the same after sharpening.

I am beginning to wonder about the so called artifacts of sharpening. I am running a series of experiments with noise reduction. One process shows great promise in that when I use it on even a low ISO image, the resulting image sharpens amazingly well. An image that showed problems sharpening beyond the 100 Amount and Radius 0.5 now sharpens at a larger radius with no problems. And areas with little detail do not show up gritty in the process.

I am wondering if the artifacts are the result of sharpening noise, and not the other way around.

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