Hockey Rink ICE is to HOT

WW
Posted By
warren_wimmer
Dec 8, 2008
Views
1218
Replies
28
Status
Closed
My wire service editor is telling me that my ice is to HOT. Does anyone have a quick action made to fix this?

Images are available at www.chicagosportsreview.net Then view under the link ‘Event Gallery’

No this is not a commercial or sales pitch

Thank you
Warren

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AR
alan_ruta
Dec 8, 2008
Well I think the editor is nit picking, but just add some blue and/or take out some red from the whites. It you don’t want the whites on the uniform to cool off you will need to mask them out.

alan
P
PECourtejoie
Dec 8, 2008
Hot, as in color temperature? Camera Raw or Lightroom might be your best bet.
B
Bernie
Dec 8, 2008
CSpringer’s Digital Grey Card action.

<http://www.atncentral.com/download.htm>

Under;
Editing and Highlight Recovery Tools
AR
alan_ruta
Dec 9, 2008
It does depend on how many images we are talking about and how often you might be shooting Hockey games.

If you are going to shoot more games then you might (e.g. shud) adjust the white pt/values. If you have the (I assume you must) raw images then a program like Lightroom, ACR can be set up to have the interpretation you want for ice rinks.

alan
RG
Rene_Garneau
Dec 9, 2008
Over in the Photography forum, there is a guy who has a tutorial on how to boost the highlights via Camera Raw and Photoshop.

Look at post #34 for a link to his tutorial:
<http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?7@@.59b6b2a5/40>
AU
ant_upton
Dec 10, 2008
Warren

I might be teaching you to suck eggs, however
If the editor is using the phrase ‘hot’ in the sense that photographers use the term in relation to artificial light, s/he means that it is over exposed, rather than colour is off and the link that Rene has pointed you to would work, although you might not have time if you are working for a wire service.

The other issue you might run into is the ‘ethics’ of using extreme and multiple edits to create a single image. Generally wire services have a complete aversion to any localised exposure adjustment of an image or messing with pixels in anyway. (Don’t get me started about this – using on camera flash is a localised exposure adjustment but that doesn’t appear to be a problem)

The best bet is to expose for the high lights, shoot RAW and use brightness/fill light sliders to do the rest, but you already knew that, didn’t you 😉
AR
alan_ruta
Dec 10, 2008
Actually after some photographer moved some clouds or people in a mideast war photo there are now strict guidelines as to what sort of moves (color contrast) and retouching (virtually none) are allowed.

Google and you shall find. Then go forth and multiply (a good way to add weight and detail to "hot" ice.

alan
RG
Rene_Garneau
Dec 12, 2008
Just for your future games: Are you shooting in Spot Metering mode? That will make the ice looking lighter than it should.

Change your metering mode to avoid that problem entirely.
AU
ant_upton
Dec 12, 2008
Rene

Why would metering in spot mode make the ice look lighter?

Ant
P
PECourtejoie
Dec 12, 2008
If you do your metering in spot on a darker subject, the lightness of the ice won’t be taken in consideration for the metering (that’s the purpose of spot mode)
AR
alan_ruta
Dec 12, 2008
What you need is a camera with very a very sensitive array. Its an age old photographic problem getting both highlights and shadows to be full of detail.

With film you had an ASA value and that was that. However with digital I would think/hope there are a few more options in order to achieve a good Ice-Rink shot.

Ask a wedding photographer that has had to shoot a woman in a white dress alongside a man in a dark tux.

alan
RG
Rene_Garneau
Dec 12, 2008
Spot metering will read light levels from a very small area, typiccally 1 to 3% of an image area.

I shoot hockey a couple times a year and I use "Centre-weighted averaging metering" (that’s on a Canon Digital). It averages the exposure across the entire image frame, but gives added emphasis (weight) to the central part of the image. It gives you good exposure for the ice and for the faces of the players – two important areas.
AU
ant_upton
Dec 12, 2008
Mmmmm…

I thought the whole point of using a spot meter was to measure to contrast range of a scene or to peg a specific tone to a specific exposure value.

Therefore if you have measured the EV of the ice surely you now know what exposure to use so as not to blow it out < or go ‘hot’ if you are wire service picture editor ;-)) >

Using a Spot meter won’t inherently give you over exposure of highlights if used correctly and for what it is designed.

Hence my comments about exposing for the high lights and bringing it back in post.
RG
Rene_Garneau
Dec 12, 2008
I forgot to add that the definitions I gave in post #12 were taken from the Dictionary of Film and Digital Photography: <http://photonotes.org/dictionary/>
AU
ant_upton
Dec 12, 2008
Rene

The Mmmmm… is generally used when there seems to be some confusion about what has been posted.

the OP wanted to know how to correct ‘hot’ pixels and it has been suggested that he:

Adjust colour temperature
Add a digital gray card
Create a single image from multiple iterations of a image – which would work but probably would not be practical when working for a wire service when speed is king and would probably contravene any ethical guidelines in place.
Use a spot meter without explaining how it would help.
Subsequently explanations still haven’t told him how it might help, just that it MIGHT mess up the base exposure. – It won’t if used correctly.
That his image sensor might not be up to the job!!

If Warren wants to prevent the problem again, he could do what photographers have been doing since Fox Talbot started playing with silver – expose correctly for his recording surface and process it depending on the contrast range of the subject matter. It works with film and it works with digital.

In this case <for the third time ;-)> expose for the highlights (don’t let them blow out to white) and bring up the rest of the image using ACR Basic sliders/parametric curve or PS curves/layer modes and if the worse comes to the worse use the High light recovery tool but that often looks bogus.

Warren I hope this helps
RG
Rene_Garneau
Dec 12, 2008
Use a spot meter without explaining how it would help.

If he works for a wire service, and takes sports pictures, one is to assume that he knows the basics of photography.
B
Bernie
Dec 12, 2008
If the issue is the yellow color cast on many of the images, I would suggest the use of a WhiBal white balance card at the shoot.

However the original question is about the photos already shot.
WW
warren_wimmer
Dec 12, 2008
The grey card action in a prior post seems to be working ok. I have metered the ice with a Minolta color meter, it gives me 3850 K at the United Center, Chicago. That is the only venue that I shoot NHL at. I sent the meter in this week for testing and calibration to make sure that it is giving me correct readings as it is getting older and has been dropped several times.

The auto WB in the Nikon D3 has in other shooting given me great results. My camera never moves off of Center Weighted when shooting sports

Other wires that I have submitted to only want sight cropping prior to submission and let their clients do with as they wish. I agree if they cant make what comes out of the camera work then they need a different image.

Most of my stuff goes to SI ESPN and other sporting publication and some web content.

Like I stated, all this techno PS stuff Im a little short on, I can use a light and color meter.

Thanks to all that have responded I really do thank you

My best to you and yours for a great holiday season and a healthy New Year

Warren
AU
ant_upton
Dec 12, 2008
Rene

Why shouldn’t he use spot metering when it specifically used to measure the contrast range of a scene or help a photographer to peg a specific tone to a specific exposure value?

Thereby avoiding the hot pixels the OP was on about.

On re-reading your post – Using centre weighted or any other metering mode can also result in non-pleasing exposures.

Mmmm… 😉
RG
Rene_Garneau
Dec 12, 2008
Why shouldn’t he use spot metering when it specifically used to measure the contrast range of a scene

Never heard of this, where do you get that from?

One of the most common applications of spot metering is a portrait of someone who is backlit. Metering off of their face can help avoid making the subject look like an under-exposed silhouette against the bright background.

Similarly if you spot meter on a dark blue hockey jersey, the ice surrounding the player will be blown out.

Using centre weighted or any other metering mode can also result in non-pleasing exposures.

WHAT?? That’s false data.

One can also shoot in Manual mode if the lighting is consistent.
AU
ant_upton
Dec 12, 2008
Looks like Warren has posted before my reply hit.

Maybe the <hot> pixels were not about exposure but about colour cast if a digital gray card is solving the problem.

Mmmmm… perhaps I was the one confused! 😉

PS Still a strange use of the word hot though :-0
AU
ant_upton
Dec 13, 2008
Rene

Will post a decent reply later, rushing out the door to shoot a job.

Ant
AU
ant_upton
Dec 13, 2008
Rene

A short explanation, there are lots of resources on the web about using spot meters and the zone system.

Basically by measuring only a specific tone using the spot meter rather than an averaging meter, (plain averageing, centre weighted, or multi segment) you can work out exactly what the contrast range is of the scene in front of you. Is it beyond the capabilities of you film/sensor? If it is then there are many things you can do to alter the contrast ratio.

If the subject is movable, place them in shade
Create your own shadow – a silk or other gobo
Reflectors
Fill in flash if it’s the sun or lowering the difference between the main and fill lights if using artificial.
Shooting RAW if you normally shoot Jpeg and work it in post Adjust the dev time, dilution and temperature to suit the contrast ratio if shooting film.

If non of the above bring the contrast ratio back into range, then you can put a specific tone from the scene to a specific tone on your sensor/film and then let the other tones fall where they may, knowing they may block up or blow out.

In the specific case of the hockey being shot by the OP, then spot meter the brightest part of the ice, and adjust your exposure on that being X number of stops over a mid tone and let the shadows take care of themselves and bring them back using fill and brightness.

In truth I’ve not used a spot meter regularly in over 9 years since I started shooting digital and choose to use the histogram on the back of the camera intelligently – that and chimping to confirm. Metering different parts of the scene and interpreting that info; just like a spot meter. Shooting an exposure knowing it might look crap out of the camera but then adjusting it in post to bring the midtones, shadows and saturation out.

I hope that this helps in some way, if not then as I said there are plenty of resources about exposure on the web.
AU
ant_upton
Dec 16, 2008
So Rene was that of any use?
RG
Rene_Garneau
Dec 17, 2008
Well, if it works for you. Go ahead and do it that way.
AU
ant_upton
Dec 17, 2008
Rene

Perhaps you could explain a better way then?

I’m always keen to learn of new ways of improving my photography.

Thanks, in anticipation
RG
Rene_Garneau
Dec 17, 2008
Well, we’re going off-topic here, it would be best to discuss this in the Photography Forum <http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?14@@.3bb41392>
AU
ant_upton
Dec 17, 2008
See ya over there – VERY keen to find out your preferred way of determining contrast range.

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