PSCS4 & G5 Video Card Problems

L
Posted By
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Views
1603
Replies
92
Status
Closed
I’ve started getting the following warning on my G5 with OS 10.4.1.1, Video Card NVIDIA GeForce 7800GT, ROM Revision 2152.2.

Did a Google search for a driver update but am a little confused. Here’s a screen shot of the warning.

< http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=16avT0Pfa93Aespyl3 QmpTXQzumZL1>

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AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 4, 2008
Linda:

You need to install the optional "AllowOldGPUS.plugin". It’s in the Goodies folder.

But if this only just started to happen, and it was previously working properly, you need to check that the card is properly seated and perhaps trash your Photoshop prefs.

Also, try using a new User Account.

There are no Mac drivers for the card Β— its part of Mac OSX.

You may need to do an Archive and Install too.
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Ann, I don’t think I have the AllowOldGPUS.plugin in my Goodies folder.
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Thank you Buko. I attempted to find it with Google but to no avail. I’ve now downloaded the two plugins. There doesn’t appear to be any instructions. I assume I install them in the Photoshop Extensions folder?
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
After installing in the Extensions folder, I got the same warning upon launch. I’ll try deleting preferences, etc.

Do I really need to have this enabled?
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Oh well… Still giving me trouble.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 4, 2008
Could the card itself have become faulty?

Did you try pulling it out and re-inserting it?

Also, try doing an Archive & Install because the driver is part of OSX and your installation may have corrupted.

I don’t imagine that you have another OpenGL-supporting card that you could swap with the problematic one do you?
If you do, I would try doing that too.
R
Ram
Dec 4, 2008
LRK,

Are you monitoring the card’s temperature? (Imagine, for instance, that the fan is failing.)
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 4, 2008
My version of the 7800GT is supposed to be connected to the internal power supply in addition to being inserted in the first slot.

The internal power supply outlet in a G5 is located on the rear end of the optical drive.

I imagine that this is required so that sufficient power is available to drive the fan on the card fast enough.

Temperature Monitor (downloadable from the Web) shows my GPU is running at 113Β°F which is within specs. Β— optimally it should be running at less than 120Β°F.

If yours is running at a higher temp., you may need to install an auxiliary fan.
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
My head is exploding. So much of this I am not up to speed on with knowledge. I also am feeling a time crunch. I think I’ll have to come back to this once I’ve gotten far enough along on a job to send a client an update.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 4, 2008
Never mind your head Β… just as long as it isn’t your video card that is doing the exploding!

πŸ˜‰
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Never mind your head Β… just as long as it isn’t your video card that is doing the exploding!

LOL
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Did you try pulling it out and re-inserting it?

I don’t know which card this is. But once I finish this job, or at least reach a place where I can take a breather I’ll try to move everything and open up the computer to check it out. This is the card that came installed in my G5.
NK
Neil_Keller
Dec 4, 2008
Linda,

….but either could be a tad messy. <g>

Neil
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
…but either could be a tad messy. <g>

Maybe it will help if I blow my nose in little spurts. πŸ˜‰

As for Ramon’s question about temperature, it seems my tower runs pretty cool, at least to the touch.
R
Ram
Dec 4, 2008
Temperature Monitor uses the built in sensors to give you exact temperature readings of the CPU, GPU, RAM and hard drives.

You’ll be surprised how much they differ, despite being in the same enclosure.

What your towers feels like to the touch is not much help.
NK
Neil_Keller
Dec 4, 2008
Linda,

…but either could be a tad messy. <g>

It just depends on what kind of mop-up you prefer to do: wet or dry.

===

As for temperature, you really need to use a thermometer in there to know for sure.

Neil
R
Ram
Dec 4, 2008
The GPU temperature can be up to 30ΒΊF hotter than the CPU.
R
Ram
Dec 4, 2008
Your GPU is running at 64ΒΊC, which is 147.2ΒΊF.

I don’t know what the tolerances are for your particular graphics card, but if my graphics card eve ran that hot, I would definitely freak out. :/ But, your card may have greater tolerances, I don’t know.

My graphics card has never reached 126ΒΊF, which is 52.2ΒΊC.
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
I don’t know what the tolerances are for your particular graphics card, but if my graphics card eve ran that hot, I would definitely freak out. But, your card may have greater tolerances, I don’t know.

Of course it would happen to me. If I can find a picture of the graphics card I’ll pull it out like a bad tooth. πŸ˜‰

If it goes up in smoke I’ll just call the Apple store and get myself a new MacPro… and save myself some taxes this year.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 4, 2008
If I can find a picture of the graphics card I’ll pull it out like a bad tooth.

If you do that, you will either need to put it back again or you will need an "Implant" Β— or you wont see anything on your monitor at all!

Look in your G5 Manual to see exactly where the video card is installed Β— or look inside to see which card is providing the connection-port for your monitor.

(Video cards slots are on the back wall as you look in from the open side panel.)
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Ann, Please fly down here and fix it for me. πŸ˜‰

All seriousness aside, I have two monitor slots. I assume the special video card is in the main slot?

It just depends on what kind of mop-up you prefer to do: wet or dry.

The CPU might be wetter than what’s inside my head. πŸ˜‰
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Look in your G5 Manual to see exactly where the video card is installed Β— or look inside to see which card is providing the connection-port for your monitor.

(Video cards slots are on the back wall as you look in from the open side panel.)

Melt down, melt down. Me no understand English. Me no understand pingcuters either.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 4, 2008
Do you have TWO video cards in that machine?

If you do, and they are not both of identical models, that could be the problem.

If you have a single card (with two ports) the card should be in the first (top) slot.

[On the other hand, a flight down South may be just what I need right now! ]

πŸ™‚
R
Ram
Dec 4, 2008
Just follow the cables from the monitor(s) to the computer box and see where they connect to the card on the back of the tower.
CC
Chris_Cox
Dec 4, 2008
The "AllowOldGPUs" plugin is there for you to use at your own risk. It doesn’t solve any known bugs, it only allows cards/drivers that say they don’t work well enough to use the GPU code in Photoshop to TRY and use the GPU code in Photoshop.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 4, 2008
Chris:

The "AllowOldGPUs" plug-in does enable me to use CS4’s OpenGL/Advanced Drawing with a 7800GT in a G5 running on OSX 10.4.11.

Advanced Drawing was not available to me without that plug-in but it works perfectly with the aid of the plug-in.

The "AllowOldGPUs" plug-in has caused me no problems at all.

πŸ™‚
JG
Jim_Goshorn
Dec 4, 2008
I have had it happen twice on my G5 Quad with a single 7800 GT card. All I did was to turn the Open GL features back on in the performance preferences, quit PS and launch it again. The problems go away for weeks at a time but then all of a sudden PS will give me the alert again.

I haven’t tracked it down yet but I do know I had LR opened first one of those times and I’m watching out for it again.
B
Buko
Dec 4, 2008
My 7800 is running about 115 f

your card seems as though it is running a little hot.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 4, 2008
LR might be the link?

I don’t use LR but Linda does.

I understand, from postings in the ACR Forum, that an LR update is imminent.
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
I have had it happen twice on my G5 Quad with a single 7800 GT card. All I did was to turn the Open GL features back on in the performance preferences, quit PS and launch it again. The problems go away for weeks at a time but then all of a sudden PS will give me the alert again.

Hey Jim, I just tried what you said you did, and it worked. The warning went away.

Prior to that I removed the plug-in since I’ve been running PS without it all this time. I still got the warning though until I turned the Open GL features back on, as you suggested.

Do I really need that plug-in since I had the better video card that came with my Mac new? I’m not even sure i had it in the right folder anyway. There were no instructions.
B
Buko
Dec 4, 2008
Also my fan is working without the power cord Ann mentioned I don’t think Linda needs the power cord either as she has a late model G5. ut the card needs to be in the bottom slot (first) and the original card needs to be removed.
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
I’m not ignoring anybody, just trying to get my mental compass to point in the right direction after spinning around a few times. πŸ˜‰

Also my fan is working without the power cord Ann mentioned I don’t think Linda needs the power cord either as she has a late model G5. ut the card needs to be in the bottom slot (first) and the original card needs to be removed.

My computer came boxed with this video card already installed so I think it’s in the right place. Does this screenshot help?

< http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1doXO6rXUNc144JsT1 MKCysZOIndn>
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 4, 2008
Linda:

If you go to Prefs./Performance/GPU settings

are you able to check the "Enable OpenGL Drawing" box Β— or is it greyed-out?

If it IS greyed-out, you will need the "AllowOldGPUS Plug-in".

(I definitely need to use the AllowOldGPUS Plug-in with my 7800GT on my system.)

It should be just be installed loose in:
Photoshop CS4/Plug-ins/
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
If you go to Prefs./Performance/GPU settings are you able to check the "Enable OpenGL Drawing" box Β— or is it greyed-out? If it IS greyed-out, you will need the "AllowOldGPUS Plug-in".

It seems to be working without the plug-in. Here’s another screen shot:

< http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1CXUhSbYsgMJg6iFnk ZtULMexnc0>
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 4, 2008
Then you should be in good shape now.

πŸ™‚
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Then you should be in good shape now.

I hope so. And in less than 100 posts too! πŸ™‚

The Graphics Processor Chip is still running at 64Β°C. I’m researching what others have to say about it on the internet.

The client job just got shelved another day. The story of my life. 8) Amazing how much time these little bumps in the road can take up.

But you guys make the bumps easier, and a little more fun. Thanks so much for all the feedback and input!
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Oh, and I feel honored to receive a post by Chris Cox! It’s been a long time. So glad you’re still around Chris!
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Found some info on the temperature of the 7800 GT Card here. <http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2519>

We found that this 7800 GT ran considerably cooler than the GTX, and we’re curious to see if this will be similar with other 7800 GTs. The load temperature of a card can be important because of the part that it plays in overclocking. It’s also something to consider if you live in very hot climates or have small computer cases with poor circulation. With a temperature of 60 degrees C at 450MHz and 61 degrees C at 462MHz, this card handles heat pretty well. We’ll see if XFX is unique in this among other GT vendors, or if they all generally run this much cooler than the GTX.
L
LRK
Dec 4, 2008
Jim, I do appreciate you sharing your solution. Just curious at to what your graphic card temperature shows up as.
JG
Jim_Goshorn
Dec 5, 2008
Glad that solution worked for you as well. My GPU is running around 120-125 F.
L
LRK
Dec 5, 2008
Thanks Jim. Guess mine is pretty hot.

Ramon, Glad you brought this to my attention. Hopefully it will be okay.
JG
Jim_Goshorn
Dec 5, 2008
Hurry up Snow Leopard and Nahalem πŸ˜€
CC
Chris_Cox
Dec 5, 2008
If "AllowOldGPUs" enabled something, it is because normally the driver said it IS NOT CAPABLE of doing that. Use at your own (high) risk.

You should not be installing "AllowOldGPUs" by default, it is not a cure – more of a diagnostic tool (originally intended for card makers only).
L
LRK
Dec 5, 2008
If "AllowOldGPUs" enabled something, it is because normally the driver said it IS NOT CAPABLE of doing that. Use at your own (high) risk.

You should not be installing "AllowOldGPUs" by default, it is not a cure – more of a diagnostic tool (originally intended for card makers only).

Chris, Good to know and appreciate the warning to all of us. You obviously seem to be aware of some possible risks. I’m glad I don’t seem to need it.
R
Ram
Dec 5, 2008
LRK,

You should be OK. It’s a good thing you found a reference to the temperature tolerance of your card.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 5, 2008
If "AllowOldGPUs" enabled something, it is because normally the driver said it IS NOT CAPABLE of doing that. Use at your own (high) risk.

Chris:

I do need to use the plug-in because without it I cannot use OpenGL/Advanced Drawing.

So, worse-case scenario,: How dangerous are the "High Risks" that I am facing?

[My video card is covered by a 3-year warranty, if that’s any consolation.]

8/
L
LRK
Dec 5, 2008
You should be OK. It’s a good thing you found a reference to the temperature tolerance of your card.

Thanks Ramon.
B
Buko
Dec 5, 2008
Ann it causes crashing on some configurations. that’s all I can figure. I have not had any issues so far.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 5, 2008
I haven’t had any problems with the plug-in either.

But I did wonder if Chris’s dire warning was because something really serious (such as hardware damage?) could result from its use.
CC
Chris_Cox
Dec 5, 2008
Ann – if your card doesn’t work without the plugin, then the card/driver is telling Photoshop that it does not have the capability to use those features. That could be a bug in the driver (like the dual card issue), but more likely it’s telling the truth.

Consequences: poor performance, corrupt display, corrupt memory due to bugs in the driver, crashes, crashing the machine (because we’re dealing with driver and hardware here), etc.

In one known case (so far) it could result in hardware damage (a feature was turned off for a laptop chip because of a known fault, trying to use that feature despite the driver disabling could cause smoke). I believe they have patched the driver to never, ever use that feature now.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 5, 2008
In my case, I suspect that the bug is because the Driver is unable to relate correctly to my 7800GT card because it is not an authorised Mac version but is actually a Windows version which has been modified and "flashed" for use on a G5 2GHz Dual.

I have been using the card for a couple of months now with the Plug-in and have not detected smoke Β— so far!

Neither have I suffered from any system or performance malfunctions Β— in fact CS4 is "solid as a rock" and super-fast. No problems at all!

But thank you for alerting me as to what COULD happen so that I can be alert to the potential for damage.

[Fire extinguisher at the ready Β… !]
JG
Jim_Goshorn
Dec 5, 2008
Talk about being flashed. Yeeesh πŸ˜€
L
LRK
Dec 6, 2008
Ann,

I do hope you shut down your computer when you go to sleep at night; at least until this possible issue is settled.
R
Ram
Dec 6, 2008
If the computer is not being used and the monitor has gone to sleep, the video card won’t be generating much heat. πŸ˜‰
B
Buko
Dec 6, 2008
Mine runs 24/7
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 6, 2008
Actually, I do shut down Β— at whatever time that my "Night" actually begins.

8/
L
LRK
Dec 6, 2008
Actually, I do shut down Β— at whatever time that my "Night" actually begins.

Very good. πŸ™‚
CC
Chris_Cox
Dec 9, 2008
LRK – yeah, that means a driver bug. Send a report to Apple and NVidia.
L
LRK
Dec 10, 2008
LRK – yeah, that means a driver bug. Send a report to Apple and NVidia.

But it stopped once I followed Jim’s suggestion in Post #29.
JH
Jim_Hammond
Dec 11, 2008
Hi Folks,
I have a Mac Pro (2007) with an Nvidia 8800GT card and am getting this same error message. From reading here is this a known issue or am I missing what’s been said.
JH
Jim_Hammond
Dec 11, 2008
Hi Folks,
I have a Mac Pro(2007) with an Nvidia 8800GT 512 card installed and just started to get this error message. In reading here is this a known issue or am I missing what’s been said?
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 11, 2008
Do you use Lightroom?

See if the comments in #29 apply in your case.
JH
Jim_Hammond
Dec 11, 2008
Hi Ann,

No, I do not use LR, only BR as of now. At first when I installed PS CS4 Extended I did not have any problems, but now I am. Not sure where its coming from. When I get the alert/error message and then go check my performance preferences, my video card does not show up and all the OpenGL is unchecked. After rechecking all the boxes and closing, then restarting PS and rechecking its all there again.

Frustrating!
L
LRK
Dec 12, 2008
Jim,

The tip that solved my problem, thanks to Jim Goshorn, was to actually "check" OpenGL. Try it and see if that works.

Linda
JH
Jim_Hammond
Dec 12, 2008
Linda,

Thanks for your help. I have done that and then the 8800GT does show up again, but then when I open a photo, I get the error, I go check on it again and the video card is gone and the OpenGl is then unchecked again.

Jim
L
LRK
Dec 12, 2008
Thanks for your help. I have done that and then the 8800GT does show up again, but then when I open a photo, I get the error, I go check on it again and the video card is gone and the OpenGl is then unchecked again.

Oh okay. I’m sorry to hear that. Must be something else going on. I hope it gets resolved.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 12, 2008
Do you have many files open when this happens?

It sounds as if there is a problem with the driver for the 8800GT.

You might see if the optional UseOldGPUS.plug-in helps; or you could try disabling some of the options in OpenGL/Advanced Drawing.

But it may be a question of waiting for Snow Leopard and hoping that Apple can actually get their ducks in a row this time round.
L
LarryGR
Dec 12, 2008
LRK – I use a simple shareware program (have been using it for over a year now w/o problems) called smcFanControl. It gives me control of the minimum fan speed for all of my systems fans. It also puts a system temp on the menu bar. If my graphics card (ATI Radeon X1900 XT) gets to hot I start getting all kinds of horizontal lines where none should be. The temp is easily brought down by increasing some of the fan speeds.
L
LRK
Dec 12, 2008
Larry, Thank you for the recommendation. My display seems to be okay but I suppose it wouldn’t hurt to have this kind of extra protection. I’ll give it a try.
JH
Jim_Hammond
Dec 12, 2008
Ann,

That’s what I suspect too, is a driver problem. I looked both on the Nvidia web site and on Apple’s for any driver updates but could not find any.

I think it may also have to do with opening multiple files but not sure, I’ll have to do more testing.

Do you recall where the download file for these UseOldGPUS.plug-in is located?

Thanks for your help.
B
Buko
Dec 12, 2008
the link is at the beginning of this thread
JH
Jim_Hammond
Dec 12, 2008
Buko,

Thanks I did find it and downloaded it, but am a little confused on how to install them.

Do I understand correctly to unzip the file, then just drag/drop the plug-ins into the Library/Preferences/Adobe/Plug-in’s folder? After that how do I access them. Sorry but I am totally new to PS and just learning all of its many capabilities.

Jim
P
PShock
Dec 12, 2008
Chris Cox – 5:22pm Dec 4, 08 PST (#45 of 74) Edited: 04-Dec-2008 at 05:23pm

Adobe Photoshop Engineer

If "AllowOldGPUs" enabled something, it is because normally the driver said it IS NOT CAPABLE of doing that. Use at your own (high) risk.

You should not be installing "AllowOldGPUs" by default, it is not a cure – more of a diagnostic tool (originally intended for card makers only).

Note the bit about "it is not a cure" …
B
Buko
Dec 12, 2008
put it in the Applications > Photoshop CS4 > plugins
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 12, 2008
Phil:

Just TRY it!

You can always disable it with a stroke of the tilde key if it doesn’t help.

All that I can tell you is that the "AllowOldGPUs" plug-in makes Advanced Drawing available to me (It is NOT available unless I use the plug-in) and, despite Chris’s warnings, it has not caused any problems here although it has been in constant use for months now.
C
Cindy
Dec 12, 2008
I don’t seem to have a GPU sensor showing up in Temperature Monitor. Could it be the NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT doesn’t have one?
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 12, 2008
No listing of "Graphic Processor Chip" in the Sensor Window or in Sensor Overview (Cmd 1)?
C
Cindy
Dec 12, 2008
In both windows. I just downloaded the latest version and there is no change.
JH
Jim_Hammond
Dec 12, 2008
Ok, many thanks..

Jim
JH
Jim_Hammond
Dec 12, 2008
Now, I am a little paranoid, I think I might just wait until I start taking my Photo Shop class next month at my local jr. college.

Jim
L
LarryGR
Dec 12, 2008
LRK – I noticed when googling smcFanControl that the first item wanted me to download version 1 something. The latest version is 2.1.3.1 Enjoy!
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 12, 2008
Perhaps it’s another Leopard thing?

I am using Temperature Monitor v.4.5.1 on OSX 10.4.11
C
Cindy
Dec 12, 2008
Ann, I use Temperature Monitor v.4.5.1 on OSX 10.4.11 as well. Maybe it is a MacPro thing.
L
LRK
Dec 13, 2008
LRK – I noticed when googling smcFanControl that the first item wanted me to download version 1 something. The latest version is 2.1.3.1 Enjoy!

Thank you Larry.
R
Ram
Dec 14, 2008
How much VRAM does your card have?
R
Ram
Dec 14, 2008
That is the problem indeed. :/
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 14, 2008
Also, the ATI Radeon 9600 Pro. does not support Shader Model 3 which you need if you want to use the OpenGL features in CS4

Advanced Drawing will work with 256MB cards but you are limited to the number of open files that you can have.
C
Cindy
Dec 14, 2008
I have 256MB on my NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT. Enable OpenGLb Drawing works but Advanced Drawing does not.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Dec 14, 2008
Cindy:

Have you tried using the "AllowOldGPUs" plug-in?

It might help Β— although Adobe apparently did find the 7300 to be problematical.
C
Cindy
Dec 14, 2008
I tried it Ann but everything went crazy. I had all kinds of artifacts on my monitor. It was kind of scary so I removed it as fast as I could.

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