Im not finding the new adjustment layers any improvement over CS2 which I was previously using. They seem to have lost some functionality. For example you could cmd click to place points on the curve and then ctrl-tab to move between them. I cant seem to do that any more. Also if you didnt like the adjustment just hit esc and it disappeared. I may get used to dragging in the image to make an adjustment but it strikes me there are now more mouse clicks involved to do anything.
Also cmd shift click would place a point on each of the colour channels, very useful to make colour adjustments I cant do that anymore either.
By default layers open as a clipping mask which I dont necessarily want so I have to move to the bottom of the palette to uncheck this, more moving about.
Is this release really progress? Im not convinced.
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Thanks for your advice Ramon, I did study that thread but didn’t find answers to my questions. + and – keys not an improvement, why has it been changed? Before you could cmd tab with your left hand and use the up and down keys with your right to change the curve shape. Now you have to move the same hand from the up and down to the + and – keys. That is slower. This may sound minor but when you spend all day at a keyboard ergonomics are very important.
Also you have to click the hand in the dialog box before you can click the image to select points – another operation that wasn’t there before.
To me this all seems change for changes sake, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
Unfortunately James with new versions now they are now almost forced to try and fix whats not broken.
Yes I agree, its not an impovement that shortcut. Would have been better using a left hand shortcut, maybe Alt/Tab or something unused. Also toggling modes with the little pointy hand toggle in the dialog box, is a pain and there should be a simple left hand shortcut for this too.
The only practical advantage that CS4 curves has, is that you can dynamically slide within the image area and see it update – they also obviously also weren’t even given time to add this functionality to add this to all the adjustment layers.
Shortcuts have not been thought through well enough. Like you say, when you do color correction and have to make maybe 150 curve adjustments in a day.
It seems like a lot of the keystrokes have changed, in some cases necessitating more work and in some cases you can’t even perform operations from the keyboard which you were able to in previous versions. :-((
As you say when you spend all day working on images, ergonomics are VERY important.
Lets hope that an option is given to use the previous keystrokes in a future upgrade, it certainly makes sense for a mature product to offer a consistent workflow from version to version.
"it certainly makes sense for a mature product to offer a consistent workflow from version to version" – yes, either that or if you do decide (probably wrongly) that you have to take things away from a tool, then its essential to compensate by significantly improving the functionality in other ways.
Add me to the list of those displeased with the Adjustment Panels, and especially Curves. Point Curves in the version of Camera Raw that ships with CS4 still works in the old – effective and efficient – way.
Wow… About all I can say is that (as a moderate semi-advanced user) I always had trouble with adjustment layers before, but find CS4 AL so easy that I can show my wife in real fime and have her say…
wow!
That kind of sums up my personal experience with them. Experts may not need this change, but people like me sure do.
First of all, I don’t need to see these adjustments at all times – I just need them when I need them. For those of us who use a secondary pallet-only monitor, this means we have to make room on fixed sized screens for yet another pallet. The old way was perfect.
Secondly, in addition to changing k/b shortcuts, some adjustment panels actually REMOVE functionality over the previous versions. For instance, the Black and White adj layer panel no longer includes Hue and Saturation controls when applying a tint. For that, you need to use the pixel-altering B/W adjustment command, or add a secondary Hue/Sat adj layer.
I’m using a secondary panel monitor I have all my panels that I have always used there at my stylus tip. For the new panels or the ones I don’t have room for on the panel monitor I just dock them down the right side of the main screen. I’m finding this to be quite helpful.
Work with it a while longer and see if you see what they do for you as a worker.
This is intended not to be what you think it is it is a workflow issue that you might not appreciate right now but might in the future, I don’t know how long it will take yu to say yes this is the way it should work but I can tell you I hated it when I first saw them but have fund that it saves me time.
When I first saw this I actually screamed and very loud but I do find having them there all the time to be helpful.
Like I wrote before I do not know how long it will take you to see the usefulness of this but i am pretty certain you will. the same with the application frame.
Fair point Wade, in time I daresay it will become intuitive and you will just get used to it. But it would be nice to have the option to do it the old way if you wanted. The shortcuts that have now been introduced are not quicker.
Especially not being about to select the white, neutral and black channels in selective colour from the keyboard – I think it will be a very long time before I see that as an improvement.
There is much to like in the new setup but loosing keyboard shortcuts is not one of them.
Ant just made me aware of another move backwards, Selective Colour shortcuts gone too! Why did they not provide an alternative for this (option/command 7 8 9?)
Yes, Wade I can see that I might be able to get used to the adjustment panels and loss of screen real estate – but these badly thought through, or in some cases lack of shortcuts are a serious issue.
Honestly, if these things have been allowed to pass, whoever is responsible now for choosing the beta team is not concentrating enough on choosing the right people for this task. Or perhaps making the mistake of listening to the loudest voices in preference to the most thoughtful.
ONE panel (that can hide in a screen margin) filled with buttons for palettes and your favourite filters and which pop them open or closed with a single click.
Have you really not got around to trying it yet?
[Now I want Configurator for Illustrator and inDesign too!]
I do not think the older way is a good option they have by default turned the applications frames off and if you see that after a not to extended period of time with working with the frames the advantage of them becomes apparent.
This is a better way of working, yes there are some that say they have no use for them, and they also say they saw it turned it off and never looked at it again, so that is usually a meaningless criticism.
True this forces you to work in a more organized way, but it makes the application function faster since you can work faster with a lot less confusion. The choice is not always a good thing but having the choice to some users are important only if they know that there is another way.
In the future no one will remember the other way and no one will care, the same thing here the point actually is not whether you have choices or option it is to me the tool more efficient and more workable and function smoother and in a more optimum manner.
You will find that even in the future even if you liked the older way better that you will not want togo back and be glad it was out of your control, most important you will notice hey this works faster and is a lot less confusing. I can keep track of what I am doing and i can access the adjustments faster and it is easier see what adjustments I actually have available to me without going the menu.
I hated this when I first saw this but I am very pleased that Adobe went out on the limb and forced it on me.
Configurator wil do things for you and allow you to customize your interface more then have been able to do so in the past but it will not change this functionality.
It is not the answer and the only answer is to work with it and see it for what it is.
Configurator wil do things for you and allow you to customize your interface more then have been able to do so in the past but it will not change this functionality.
Configurator can indeed "change the functionality" or certainly the way that the User perceives/endures it.
Make all of your palettes into free-floaters and float each of them in the area of the monitor where you want them to display.
Then make them appear, and disappear, on a single button-click in the Configurator panel.
Each palette takes up far less room this way (because you don’t get a palette swinging out sideways from the panel) and what is more important is that you can have more than one palette fully open at the same time. For example, I need both the Layers (to which i have docked the Adjustment and Masks panels) and the History Panels to be fully visible at all times for the way that I work.
I don’t have the desk-space for a second monitor so the Configurator’s ability to reduce Screen Clutter is proving to be invaluable.
Don’t listen to that configurator is great for what it actually can do which is help you to configure your interface so you can work as lean and mean as it is possible.
configurator is great to help you to configure your interface so you can work as lean and mean as it is possible.
Which is EXACTLY what I am saying: Just one neat little panel containing buttons for everything that you need.
The way that I have configured mine (as I described previously) allows me to free up entirely the space wasted by the clutter of the regular docked panels and, even more important, to keep more than one palette open at the same time when required.
[What is there to disagree about Wade unless you are just being deliberately disagreeable for a change?!]
No Wade, this is a NEW request to add further capabilities to an entirely NEW product: the Configurator.
John Nack has particularly stated in his Blog that the team who developed the Configuraor would welcome messages of appreciation and that such messages would encourage the powers that be to make resources available for the development of Configurator for other applications within the CS4 Suite.
Those who would welcome further development of this new product might like to add their comments to John Nack’s Blog and to the Adobe Labs Configurator Forum.
Ann, so you advocate that we install a beta application into the production environment? I’ll rather wait until it is released and don’t want to mix release versions with betas. Ever.
The Application is new the feature request is very old, I know for a fact.
As far as John Blog that blog I think I will avoid
I am not all that happy with it as it stands I would wait before I find it to be featured enough.
I would rather see this handled through the Bridge then by a standalone application.
It is alright but not what I would want, perhaps the next version. I certainly do not want one for Illustrator, one for Ind design and one for Photoshop or for any of the motion or web applications.
I think this is the wrong approach a suite wide application yes but it would have to much better then configurator. I think it has to be released and you have to get feed back from a larger group of people, no just the people that visit John’s blog. Mostly because I think there are many people that do not visit his site and you have to hear from them as well.
I think it is a good thought but not though out completely.
Ann, I set up Configurator recently and made a couple panels, including one like your bottom-of-screen example. But I still can’t figure out how this is different than the Actions Palette in "Button Mode". (Keyboard shortcuts can also be set up as Actions.)
Since you’ve used Configurator longer than me, can you tell me how it’s different than Actions?
as is already pointed out it is limited to one application and the fact that it is also needed in others already suggest it was not properly directed in the first place.
It has to be rethought and like it or not this is a good suggestion and a more powerful approach and will get acceptance faster as well and will be good for the Bridge and integration with other application.
You are correct i see the whole picture and the context of that picture is what makes the subject dynamic.
I tell you what why don’t we wait and see how things turn out! Time is the true test.
Configurator is quicker to set-up than the Actions palette and what is more, it still leaves the Actions Palette clear for the things that really benefit from being an Action.
The point with Configurator is that you build it to include only the items to which you want instant access.
I don’t need to have the tools on my Configurator palette (because I always access those from keystrokes) but other people might want to include them.
I do want to be able to access, and dismiss, all palettes individually with a single button-click, so my palettes have all been set to float (although I have docked a few with each other).
The advantage of this is that you can have more than a single palette open at the same time. (A major drawback to the CS4 Panels is that you can’t have more than one palette from the same panel open concurrently.)
I find Configurator in its current state to be totally stable and to cause no conflicts with Photoshop at all. For the next edition, I would like Configurator to be able to be more than 1000 pixels wide so that I could stretch it right across the bottom edge of my monitor and only have it two buttons deep.
It’s purely an optional thing, but having used Configurator, I would not want to use CS4 on a single-monitor system without it and it would definitely improve the efficiency and usability of other programs which employ myriad palettes such as Illustrator and InDesign.
Those that are disparaging Configurator probably have not really spent sufficient time using it to discover just how much more streamlined, space-saving and efficient they can make Photoshop CS4 by personalizing the GUI to best suit their individual workflow.
why don’t we wait and see how things turn out! Time is the true test.
No.
The only REAL "test" is to TRY it for YOURSELF not just sit idly by and hope to learn something from other people’s experiences through third-party hearsay.
And that is not limited to just Software but goes for everything else and every other place on the planet as well!
The point with Configurator is that you build it to include only the items to which you want instant access.
Couldn’t this be done with an Actions-based keyboard shortcut (opening specific panels or filters)?
I’m not against Configurator, by the way. Just trying to see how it’s different than built-in keyboard shortcuts etc. Since Configurator is a separate app that you export out of (and Into PS), there’s not all that much time difference than making a "Layer / New Adjustment Layer / Curves" or a "Filter / Blur / Gaussian Blur" action.
Maybe that’s it: it’s the new way, the new Actions for CS5…
As you correctly say, you configure your own panel in the Configurator application and then Export it to Photoshop.
Once there, you have instant access to it directly from the Window/Extensions menu and, if checked, it will always reopen in the position in which you last left it parked. Click the Tab key to hide or re-reveal it and all other panels and palettes.
It is in addition to, and is much more compact than, the Actions palette (which I also have on a Configurator button). The best use of Configurator is to gain instant access to dialogs, and to open and close palettes; while I use Actions to create more complex chains of events.
The more keyboard shortcuts that you customarily use, the less buttons you may need on your Configurator panel you won’t need any Tools buttons for example but may just choose to include more filters etc..
Kind of complex for something you should not even have to think about, I made a feature request on how to make it valuable we will see if it happens I think it will either die next release or there will be something more on the lines that I want it to be.
Not in the least complex for anyone of normal intelligence who is not suffering from an attack of mental laziness.
I personally am already finding Configurator to be extremely valuable in it’s current form RIGHT NOW.
Your mileage may vary.
But only by testing it for yourself will you discover whether you prefer to configure your own GUI or put-up with Photoshop CS4’s default Panels particularly the Adjustment Panel (which, after all, was the whole point of this Topic in the first place!).
Also, the features that one individual may request for an Application may not be deemed to be of sufficient value to anyone else to warrant their inclusion in the development program.
In the meantime, we just have to work with what is currently available and customize it as far as possible to our individual requirements.
To the OP you will get use to the adjustment panel and you will find it saves time.
Also, the features that one individual may request for an Application may not be deemed to be of sufficient value to anyone else to warrant their inclusion in the development program.
That is basically what you said when I proposed 3D support for Illustrator and Photoshop, are you sure of that scenario?
Are you sure Configurator is worthy? are sure the adjustment panel is not an innovation, have you taken the time to see what might be possible with a simply slight move of the mouse or stylist and a click?
I agree there are some people who are intellectually lazy and are you still not going to ever convert to OS X or buy a digital camera?
are [you] sure the adjustment panel is not an innovation, have you taken the time to see what might be possible with a simply slight move of the mouse or stylist and a click?
Remember that I have been using CS4 for many months now without the benefit of the Configurator so have had plenty of time to get thoroughly acquainted with it and to have learned and adapted to all of the new keyboard shortcuts
While the margin-docked Panels are one approach to tidying-up palette clutter, they ARE ungainly and take up far too much space if you are limited to working on a single monitor.
The way that the expanded palettes (paricularly big palettes like Brushes, Curves and Masks) swing out sideways from the icons frankly absorbs too much screen-estate even on a wide monitor like mine and must be totally impossible on a lap top?!
But the really irritating part is the inability to have more than a single palette open at any one time unless you have them in different panels or have them floating freely.
I just find that the Configurator buttons, in conjunction with floating palettes, is the layout which suits me the best out of the various work space arrangements that I have tried.
Other people will no doubt feel differently but I highly recommend that they try the Configurator for themselves.
I would just like to say that the Configurator is the most useful single innovation in CS4 because it is a key to quickly applying frequently used commands that don’t have a familiar or finger-friendly keyboard shortcut.
Adobe Camera Raw in its present form has take a lot of work from Photoshop but a judicious mixture of short-cuts, actions, and Configurator buttons make for a really zippy work rate in other tasks. (In retouching for example.)
Can a make a panel which will bring up dialog windows, such as selective and assign keystrokes to that panel and then keystrokes to interact with that dialog? EG Hit F1 to bring up Selective colour and then hit apple 7 to select the white channel or some unused key combination?
Another question if that doesn’t work, I would like to create an action which automatically creates a series of adjustment layers, can I set Configurator to open the adjustment layers into their own dialog windows, NOT reopen the adjustment panel, which I have manually closed.
I’m not against progress, however I really, really don’t like a programme, opening a window when I’ve just manually closed it.
As you have rightly pointed out, using CS4 on a 15" laptop is a pain, trying to use it on a 12 or 10 inch one would almost be impossible.
The idea that there is only one way of using PS is laughable, users work on screens varying from 10" laptops to multiple 30" screens and what works on a 30" screen is unlikely to work on a 10" and vice versa.
Ann you choosing to completely miss our basic point keyboard shortcuts are always better for workflow than customizable buttons – And this is the reason, they become intuitive, and they are generally physically quicker.
"and those that have never participated in a prerelease team have no clue how things work, so they can speculate all they want." – Scott I interpret this to mean that there is no priority given to individuals, since I have not been involved in the process I don’t know. I guess there is a priority rank given to engineers and managers, when deciding what should be prioritised, I suppose its this I’m questioning.
"works faster and is a lot less confusing. I can keep track of what I am doing and i can access the adjustments faster and it is easier see what adjustments I actually have available to me without going the menu. " – Wade, thats a fair point and I can see its advantages, and I’m just frustrated at having to work around them. Basic things like not assigning ergonomic shortcuts to basic functionality is definitely ‘new school", and certainly not to be approved.
Basic things like not assigning ergonomic shortcuts to basic functionality is definitely ‘new school", and certainly not to be approved.
Mark:
I have added many additional keystrokes of my own to the standard ones but there are just not enough keystrokes available to cover everything while some keystrokes are System or Application-protected and can’t be re-assigned.
The Configurator provides another level of personal control and lets me clear my screen of much unnecessary clutter.
I choose to embrace the added capability that it offers but no-one says that you have to do likewise.
our basic point keyboard shortcuts are always better for workflow than customizable buttons
I disagree with always. Personally I choose not to clutter my brain with keyboard shortcuts as much as possible, much more so in the light of the fact that keyboard shortcuts can change every 18 months.
Just like RAM and drive space, I have a limited number of brain cells, and I choose to use them for worthier and more permanent purposes.
My apologies, on re-reading my post No 36, it would appear that I am directing the point below at you, that is not the case, it was a general point about how frustrating it is to be told that the new way is always the better way.
The idea that there is only one way of using PS is laughable, users work on screens varying from 10" laptops to multiple 30" screens and what works on a 30" screen is unlikely to work on a 10" and vice versa.
Remember that I have been using CS4 for many months now
That doesn’t mean anything maybe to you but I know someone who has been using CS4 for almost a 11/2 years and they say their experience is different. And they say it does not matter how long you have been using the application it is how well you have investigated the matter. Perhaps you simpler needs, like somewhere between the novice and the Advanced professional, from the work that you do, from what I can see I would say that might be true, and so there is no need to be in touch with a lot of the features and perhaps configurator seems right to you nut there is a much better way but as alway you are always after the fact on software usually wait to upgrade always doubt the wisdom of something you haven’t seen or for the more realistic assessment don’t really understand until someone has pointed it it out in very clear terms to you.
For instance as I have done many times and I got news for you this is another one of those times.
And of course as we all know you have a hard time being wrong.
Flat Panel Display, Digital Photography, OS X, InDesign 2.0, it is a long list.
I know someone who has been using CS4 for almost a 11/2
Then that person has been using it longer than it’s been in alpha/beta…the adjustment panels only went in about 5-6 months ago. Prior to that, CS4 was pretty much CS3 with a few extra things bolted on that didn’t work. Might want to check back with that person to see what they were smoking. (and not smoke the same stuff)
It would be pleasant to have a "Legacy" option available so that it would be possible to have CS2-CS3 palettes, Adjustment Layers and keyboard shortcuts functioning as they did previously, while retaining the significant functionalities introduced with CS4.
Regarding Ants questions: »Further to my post above, No 41, can anybody answer my question from post No 36, can Configorator assign keystrokes within dialog windows?« Not to the best of my knowledge. »can I set Configurator to open the adjustment layers into their own dialog windows, NOT reopen the adjustment panel« Yes, You can. Try the third panel in the »Some sample panels«-section (which PECourtejoie pointed out to me): < http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2008/11/configurator_is_live.ht ml#more> One can easily adapt the Scripts Mr. Nack used for Hue/Adjustment-, Selective Color- and some other Adjustment Layer Types and use them as Scripts with assigned Shortcuts directly.
Jeff now did I write the this person was working with Photoshop CS4 for almost a 1 1/2 or with the adjustment panel I have no way of know which is so but I seem to recall that he mentioned something about it last January or February.
Are you sure it is only five or six months?
I still think from what I see that any users here are saying is that configurator is an application and they do not want that, what they want is a technique that is all they want.
And if it does not start with the Bridge then it should first be perfected with Acrobat where it would make the most sense to start.
" a "Legacy" option available so that it would be possible to have CS2-CS3 palettes, Adjustment Layers and keyboard shortcuts" – discovery folks, I found out today that there’s another way without configurator – using actions and CS3 to get the dialog instant shortcuts back.
Try this – using curves as an example, it works on all of them
In CS3 record an action step "Set current adjustment layer to Curves" – This step is recordable by double clicking, and opening an existing curves adjustment layer, and zeroing the values.
Check the "toggle dialogs" box on the step.
Save and load into CS4
Now this action can be F keyed. If you make a step before this to create a new blank adjustment layer you can get shortcuts for everything. Just one step in the action will edit an existing adjustment layer in the dialog
Curves feels smoother in the dialog without that subtly delayed feeling in the panel version. Command clicking to place points still works in the dialog! and RGB is just now command 3,4,5.
Mark, with such an Action wont accidentialy selected non-Curves-Layers get changed to Curves-Layers (which is a potential source of errors) plus arent the values set to the values of the recorded Action? But by utilizing Scripts one can set conditionals that allow to use the same button or Shortcut for various types of Adjustment Layers and Scripts can be used in Configurator.
Yes thats partly true if you execute it on another adjustment it will replace it with a curve, and your right this does create the potential for errors. But if you execute it on an existing curve it will retain the values, and open the dialog. There are no values recorded in the action step itself.
My steps for creating new adjustments were always 1 make new adjustment first with no values, and then 2 record this zeroing step – work out how to do this. The recording of two steps like this avoids the pointless initial dialog.
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