It doesn’t make sense to have a large number of plug-ins active. As you have seen they just slow things down. If you really need even half a jillion then you are not using Photoshop to its full potential.
Decide which you use regularly and segregate them into a folder which you identify in Photoshop preferences.
You can also designate this folder when you move to CS2 or 3 but not all will be compatible and may stop the program running. Later versions are not designed to cope with such a misuse of resources either, so the issue will not be "resolved".
John,
What are your credentials for your answer. Your solution is very obvious and your tone is a bit rude.
That being said, I believe the real problem is not that I have so many plugins but that the plugins install, in addition to the plugins, many files. My plug-ins folder has over 15,000 files … there are many plugins but the vast majority of the files (over 14,000) is comprised by the additional files put in by the installs. At one point I actually removed the plugins and began reloading the ones I wanted. However, that solution is now, once again, untenable. Why doesn’t PS just scan the files with 8bf and other extensions of which it is aware instead of all the gif and other extensions? This seems to be a ridiculous way for PS to act (and didn’t prior to PS CS).
Shel
Why doesn’t PS just scan the files with 8bf and other extensions
It needs to scan them to check whether they have that extension or not (among other things).
You’re not the first person to blame the app that’s choked, instead of blaming the causes and shortness of resources itself. 🙂
BTW, it’s none of my business, but I can’t find any rudeness in John’s reply.
Rob
Why does it need to scan files it either doesn’t know about or (maybe I’m wrong here) shouldn’t care about?
BTW, I agree … after re-reading his comment I guess I shouldn’t have taken offence to "If you really need even half a jillion then you are not using Photoshop to its full potential." I really don’t need them … but Adobe doesn’t really publish a set of standards and best practices for PS. Any other issues I should know about concerning resources?
Shel
Why does it need to scan files it either doesn’t know about or (maybe I’m wrong here) shouldn’t care about?
How does it know what to care about until it looks?
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John Bean
How about just sticking to 8bf, 8bi, … like most other programs. Why would it scan gif, jpg, …
Sorry, I didn’t make my point very clearly. It has to scan *for* the plugins, and Windows is not particularly efficient in its handling of directories with tens of thousands of files in them. Add the processing time for verifying the thousand or so plugins it finds, and… Well, it’s not going to be quick.
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John Bean
Shel, the point is not that it "scan" each of the files. The fact is, you are presenting Photoshop with a folder containing 14,000 files. It obviously has to "look at" each of those files to decide which are relevant and which are not. 14,000 is gonna take time! 🙁
There is no way to transfer many plug-ins over to a new version of Photoshop. Most of the commercial ones also place files in other directories and to just copy the plug-in directory over would just break the links to these files. You will have to reinstall.
As for correcting the issue of scanning the plug-ins. Photoshop has no issues with that. You do. You clearly have too many installed. If you install a 1000 plug-ins Photoshop (all versions) have to scan them in order to know to put them in the filter menu. Either live with that or clean out some of the junk. You can’t possibly use them.
Plug-ins seem to be like fonts. People feel the more they have the more professional it makes them. When it is just the opposite. A professional doesn’t need many of any plug-ins. A professional knows how to use the program to get what he/she wants.
Robert
Photoshop doesn’t scan all of the preset files and the like. It only scans for the one plug-in file. It could careless about any dlls, presets, etc. Now the plug-in will scan and uses these, but Photoshop doesn’t and has not control. It isn’t like Photoshop is loading all of the plug-ins in to memory. It is only creating a catalog of the plug-in name with a link to the plug-in file. When you select a plug-in it still has to load in to memory.
Robert
Photoshop plug-ins only have a couple of extensions. It is only going to look for files with those extensions. Everything else it will just ignore. Photoshop knows an a plug-in file from a DLL or preset or what not. It isn’t scanning every file, just one the ones that the extension says is a plug-in.
Robert
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:13:10 -0800,
wrote:
Shel, the point is not that it "scan" each of the files. The fact is, you are presenting Photoshop with a folder containing 14,000 files. It obviously has to "look at" each of those files to decide which are relevant and which are not. 14,000 is gonna take time! 🙁
Something I don’t understand is why CS2 takes so long to load with all of my plugins, but PS7 does not. What does CS2 do that PS7 doesn’t? This is one of the main reasons why I use PS7 instead of CS2.
Talker
Before I say any more I would like to say that I appreciate all the info from the people who have responded. Having said that I think the following will show that this issue is an inefficiency in PS:
I have 16,000 files in the plug-ins folder (including sub-folders). I did a Windows search for all files *.8b*. The search took approximately 15 seconds. The number of files found in the search was 398 (of which the installed version of PS has a small percentage). Are you trying to tell me that it takes PS over 5 minutes to check 398 files? Seems like this is NOT my problem …
Windows is only looking for the file extension, it’s not actually doing anything with the files.
Mind you, 5 minutes is a looong time; you never mentioned your system specs did you?
3 GHz CPU, 1 GB RAM, plenty of disk space on C (WD Raptor) and G (where Adobe is installed, not sure of the brand of IDE drive here but not slow).
What can you possibly need 398 plug-ins for. If you are expecting them to make you a Photoshop power user, you have already lost. You sound like a lot of newbies. The first most people want to do when they get Photoshop is to load in every plug-in they can find. This instead of learning how to use the program.
People that do desktop publishing do the same thing with fonts. 20,000 fonts later they wonder why everything has dropped to a crawl.
BTW are you sure that it is only scanning the plug-ins during that five minutes and not other things as well, like fonts?
It is also possible depending on where you got the plug-ins that they are either poorly done (causing problems because they are not up to PS plug-in standards) or they are too old and do not work properly with Photoshop CS2. Fonts are the same way. Some free fonts and some for sale fonts are so poorly done or corrupted that they will cause Photoshop to do some very strange things including lock up, take for ever to scan them, etc.
Make sure the plug-ins you are using are designed to work with your version of Photoshop. If you are using shareware or free ones, make sure they aren’t Also, just because a plug-in can load and work in Photoshop doesn’t mean that it was programmed correctly. It is possible to have plug-ins listed in Photoshop that will not work. Some of the old original Kai’s Power Tool ones are like this as well as some others.
Robert
When Photoshop is opening, for each of the 398 plugins, Photoshop has to open the file, get information to populate the filters list, and create an entry for that list. That takes time. Sorry about that.
Print out Robert’s message and read and digest it fully.
Then go and clean up your computer and start learning how to use Photoshop properly!
There are plug-ins managers, Plugin Commander is one, but I don’t know if it will help you. might be worth trying.
Thanks to all of you who were polite and actually gave some thought to my concern. Robert, I don’t collect fonts and I don’t actually have that many … I’ve been a Windows user for over 20 years and I don’t think you would consider a little over 400 fonts (most of which were loaded by apps on my system and Windows itself) a lot of fonts. At the beginning I said I was still on PS CS … not CS2. John, I thought you were rude at the beginning and I guess I was correct. You sound like a 15 year old brat who thinks he knows it all. Thanks PE and especially Mike … guess I’ve got a few too many plugins ::-)
BTW, I’ve taken classes in PS and I do know how to use it quite well. It’s been my favorite image manipulator for well over a decade. It was a rude awakening when it started taking so long to load. I’m still not sure what the difference was from PS 7 to 8 … and I was kinda hoping that this thread would answer that. PS 7 would load quickly no matter how many plugins I had. Guess I’ll get rid of some of them.
BTW2: One way to speed up the load is to remove nearly all the files. Kinda confuses the theories doesn’t it …
BTW2: One way to speed up the load is to remove nearly all the files. Kinda confuses the theories doesn’t it …
Confuses? How so? Too many files was what I (and others) suggested as the probable cause for the slow startup.
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John Bean
I wasn’t saying you did collect fonts. But, like desktop publishers people that are new with Photoshop tend to collect as many plug-ins as new desktop publishing people collect fonts. Both will mess up your system if you have too many installed (Photoshop will on display so many on the filters menu as well) and especially if you go for some of the freeware junk that is floating around.
You need to learn Photoshop and worry about plug-ins after you know how to use what Photoshop has. Then you will know that 90% of the plug-ins you have are not needed.
Robert
It is possible that some of the plug-ins that worked fine with 7 no longer work so fine with 8. This does happen. Changes are made and if the plug-in maker doesn’t bother to update (seems to happen more and more these days) then you end up with a plug-in that won’t crash Photoshop but doesn’t help it either.
What plug-ins do you have? Are the freeware, shareware or commercial. If they are commercial what are they and what versions. Things like the old Kai’s Power Tools 3.0 are a problem for the new versions of Photoshop.
Robert
3 GHz CPU, 1 GB RAM, plenty of disk space on C
How much RAM do you have allocated to Photoshop? Any more than the default 55% will deprive the OS and other applications (including plug-ins) of system resources. It will cause the OS to page out to virtual memory and the whole thing will slow to a crawl. With only 1GB of physical RAM even 55% might be too high.
Also look at your scratch disk set-up. Ideally this should be on a separate physical drive to the OS and should have several GBs of contiguous defragmented space. (PS uses Scratch as its RAM and the Physical RAM as a cache)
The advice you have been given about the number of plug-ins and their suitability for CS is sound advice. A bit of good housekeeping should get things moving for you.
Chris.
John, I thought you were rude at the beginning and I guess I was correct. You sound like a 15 year old brat who thinks he knows it all.
🙂 I don’t know whether JJ will be upset or pleased by your remark. He’s actually a recycled teenager with a wealth of Photoshop knowledge.
I used to have a 3.-party program – a plug-in manager. Can´t tell you where to find it. I think it was for free.
You guys are really great! I really appreciate all the effort in your responses. Apparently I really started something here.
Robert – I have gone through the first Classroom in a Book and attended a seminar on techniques in PS. Also, I have done some really nice things with it. So, I’m not grousing about the product in the least. On the contrary, it’s the best! Also, all the plugins were installed since the installation of PS CS … so they all work … I made sure of that. There’s just too many files in the plug-ins directory. I’ll be paring it down as soon as I have time to decide which few I want to keep.
Chris – I haven’t played with the memory in PS … I have just gone with the defaults. Actually that hasn’t presented a problem … and will present less of one when I take care of the plug-ins directory. However, I will take a look at the options again.
JJ – I’m sure you know what you are talking about. However, you will soon learn that people will much happier with your answers when they are tempered with respect. Look at what Chris and Robert wrote. They are respectful and confident. However, I do appreciate your time and thought in this matter.
Shel
I am very respectful of expertise.
If you hang around in these forums you will find, as has been mentioned several times in this thread, that a certain type of Photoshop user thinks that the more plug-ins he can stuff into his folders, the better it makes him, and the more fonts he can weigh down his resources with, the more creative he will become.
In fact most plug-ins only simplify functions that can be done in Photoshop already by an experienced user, and a good designer will be very restrictive in the variety of fonts he uses (not to mention the dangers of freebies in both categories).
That is why I am not respectful in this case.
Note: I do realise that there are plug-ins that actually improve on some functions in Photoshop, but these are a small proportion of the hundreds out there.
Just to add to what John has said;
A lot of the work that I have seen that has been created using plugins – instead of native Photoshop filters, effects & techniques – tend to have a kind of ‘signature’ look.
I often see work that I can tell just what plugin has been used – like the eye candy plugins – that would have looked so much better without. I only have a few plugins installed and find that the less they are used, the better the end result tends to be.
Good luck.
Hi John,
In fact most plug-ins only simplify functions that can be done in Photoshop already by an experienced user
From my perspective, plug-ins and actions do one thing: Speed things up. You can spend a day doing something that a plug-in can do in 10 seconds. It’s a question of how much you value your time: Do _you want to do it and make it perfect, or do you want the _computer do the work and make it 99% perfect. An experienced user will recognize the ability of plug-ins to save time and instead of spending half an hour (s)he can now send it to a plug-in that does it in 5 seconds and then spend two minutes on minor tweaking. That said, I don’t have any plug-ins except those that came with CS<g> I have a selection of actions that I’ve looked at and some that I’ve created to save time. Same thing applies – they save me time.
That is why I am not respectful in this case.
Being respectful is like being tall, it’s not conditional:)
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Arnor Baldvinsson
San Antonio, Texas
right after cs was released there was an issue with (i think it was) auto fx or maybe andromeda plugins that were loading literally thousands of support files (swatches and patterns and the like) into the plugins folder. something about the way cs was handling plugins (scanning each file) was causing the slowdown. the fix was provided by the plugin manufacturer as a dot update some months later.
if you can’t get the update for some reason, move all non plugin files (*.gif, *.jpg, etc non-8b*) out of the plugins folder to a new folder.
and jj’s the man. helps more people per day than just about anyone else here!
Wow. What a silly answer to a legitimate question. You’re telling me that artistic expertise is necessary just to load the freaking program?
The only plugin I use is "Photographic Edges" by AutoFX. Photoshop takes 7-10 minutes to load because everything is installed into the plugin folder and it scans the entire directory structure which contains 1000’s of files. There’s nothing I can do about it.
What I do is simple drag the folder manually out of the plugin folder and let it set on my desktop until I need it, then I’ll drag it back.
I seem to remember a problem with that plugin that caused that problem. The memory is very vague but I think you should do a bit of googling.
Bob
There’s nothing I can do about it.
please read my last post. I believe autofx put out a patch within a couple months of cs’s release.
What I do is simple drag the folder manually out of the plugin folder and let it set on my desktop until I need it, then I’ll drag it back.
No need for that; move the PGE folder one level up (out of the Plug-Ins folder into the Adobe Photoshop CS2 folder).
Although it is not in the plug-ins folder anymore it nevertheless will be available instantly…
Ronald
Chris,
Thanks for the tip about dropping memory allocated to Photoshop to assist the plug-in! I normally limit my plug-in use to PhotozoomPro, Noise Ninja, and Focus Magic. Actually, I probably wouldn’t really miss the rest of them as most are olde & don’t like 16-bit color files. The first can be a bit slow on 100+ meg. single layer files. Perhaps a bit of memory adjustment will help. Certainly it is worth a try as it does run faster as the stand alone than as the plug-in.
Bill, planning on archiving olde plug-ins
Photoshop CS2 has been great. And start up time is fairly quick (I do have a number of plugins, but not as much 200+). But ever since installation of PS CS3 beta, BOTH versions now have a VERY slow startup time. Most of it is due to "scanning plug-ins". I haven’t added anymore plugins prior to, or after installing the beta version.
Anyone know why this would happen all of a sudden? Coinsidence, or is there a direct correlation?
