Full support for OpenGL® 2.0 programmable pixel and vertex shaders in hardware 2.0 Pixel Shaders support up to 16 textures per rendering pass 2.0 Vertex Shaders support vertex programs up to 1024 instructions with flow control New 128-bit per pixel floating point color formats Shadow volume rendering acceleration>
The 9600 is not recognized as an Open GL- compatible card by CS4.
I urgently need a GL Video card for a G5 Dual 2 GHz (2003 model) which has an AGP bus. Does anyone have any recommendations for a card that will make it possible for me to use Open GL with CS4 on this machine?
Hi Ann
I have two of them with the same video card and it seems that we’re both out of luck unless there’s an nvidea card that I don’t know about.
The Radeon 9600 also supports Open GL 2.0, but CS4 also requires Smart Shader 3.0 and the Radeon is only 2.0
I can’t find any new Mac compatible GeForce 7800s for sale and the reviews online all date from 2005 so I suspect that it’s not Smart Shader 3.0 compatible either.
It seems as if the GeForce 7800GT needs a PCI-Express Slot.
Is anyone here using the GeForce 7800GS (which seems to be the AGP version) in an AGP Slot for an Open GL application because I am not sure that it supports OpenGL?
I have just had a long conversation with Tech Support at OWC and they said that while the ATI Radeon 9600 should<i/> be fine for Open GL, Adobe CS4 has higher requirements and they didn’t think that there was any card that fits an AGP slot which will work except possibly the Radeon X800 which is currently out of production!
Neither does the Radeon X800 appear to be able to run a DVI 1920 x 1200 monitor
You can run CS4 without Smart Shader 3.0 and use all of the regular features; but you can’t use the new OpenGL features in CS4 unless your card has Shader support 3 which is disappointing.
I bought the nVidia Quadro FX 3700. I don’t know if it works on Apple computers though.
"The Quadro FX 3700 professional graphics board dynamically allocates geometry, shading, pixel processing, and compute power to deliver optimized GPU performance while enabling Energy Star power savings. The reference standard for Shader Model 4.0, the Quadro FX 3700 enables next-generation, ultra-realistic, real-time OpenGL and DirectX 10 visualization applications. With two dual-link DVI connectors, the Quadro FX 3700 also offers the industrys best image quality at resolutions up to 2560 x 1600 @ 60Hz."
You are probably out of luck and either have to move on and upgrade to a new Mac or a PC or live with what you have but for me even though the nvidia GeForce 7300 GT supports the open GL features I upgraded anyway to the nvidia GeForce 8800 GT anyway!
Unfortunately the nVidia Quadro FX 3700 requires a PCI Express bus and my machine has an AGP bus.
I think that I am probably out of luck too !
The last thing that I want to do right now is to buy a new computer when my existing one behaves flawlessly and is absolutely perfect for everything except for OpenGL in CS4.
It looks as if it will be a pretty expensive investment anyway one irritation with the late-model G5s is that it seems that none of my existing RAM will fit!
Ann? Does my G5 2 GB Dual Processor have what it takes? I’m guessing not. I’d check for myself, but the machine is down. Press the power button on the box and… nada. Hoping it’s the power switch or maybe the power supply. But could be the board. Ucch.
In any case, if and when I get it repaired, will I then have to purchase a new video card, or do you think not?
See if you can get one of the last G5s If you can find one it shouldn’t cost too much
IMO that is a bad idea for anyone doing heavy graphics work. We have been in a MacIntel world since 2006 and developers stopped optimizing for G5s before that. Looking forward, buying a G5 today (or last year for that matter) is illogical for a pro graphics person doing broad-spectrum work.
And I am just discovering how difficult it is going to be for any Mac User to use the new OpenGL features in CS4 if they are using anything less than one of the newest Macs.
You will find in CS4 that although you will be able to use all of the "regular" features, that there is a raft of very cool new ones that you won’t be able to use unless you have a video card that supports Shader Model 3.0 and OpenGL 2.0.
Open GL gives us the ability to Rotate View (to rotate the canvas for easier drawing), see a smooth screen rendering at any zoom-percentage, and use the new 3D tools effectively.
But I haven’t been able to explore these features yet because I don’t have a good enough video card.
Ann, maybe we should bite the bullet and buy new machines. D3s can cause fiscal constraints, as can 800 point drops in the stock market. And moves on a whim from DC to San Diego. But what’s more important, food or rotating our canvas? And besides, we can get Leopard-only access if we do this, which will be wonderful for all my legacy hardware and software. C’mon, we’ll do it together and commiserate.
(My G5’s been unplugged for 2 weeks. Just plugged it in and pressed the power button. A thundering, seismic silence….)
My Voodoo powers, like the stock market, have obviously weakened?!
As for getting a new MacIntel, I really do want to wait until I see how well CS4 works with the white-washed version of Leopard when makes its debut next year.
And there might also be new Macs to go with Snow Leopard too.
But Ann, if I understand this thread (by no means a safe assumption), this means we don’t get to rotate our canvas on our existing machines. Ever. Perish the thought. A clever Photoshop feature, useful to boot, and we can’t access it? That could drive a person into a catatonic sense of deprivation….
Hey Buko, don’t jinx me. I am hoping to hold out for the release of Snow Lepoard with whatever Mac Pro it will run on which hopefully will have Nehalem processors 😀
It just made me think of the Football announcers that say things like and joe running back has not fumbled in 493 carries. And the next thing you know he fumbles it and the other team runs it back for a touchdown.
I wish you all the luck I’m waiting for the same thing.
And here, which is why my primary DSLR still is a D2x not a D3. My comment was not to say that everyone must own a MacIntel, it said that no pro graphics person should today go buy a G5.
Did you state that CS4 will not allow canvas rotation without an advanced graphics card on board? Both my computers are OK, but that would be a deal breaker for me because I rotate canvases constantly for all kinds of reasons.
Did you state that CS4 will not allow canvas rotation
I suppose the option would be to put your monitor on a gimbal. <g>
But seriously, I think there are more than a few folks who are hoping that Mac OS X 10.6, Adobe CS4, and a nice new MacIntel will be THE next generation combination we G5 holdouts have been waiting for.
There is 3D support which Ann might need and ythen there is the new dynamic panning feature you give it a ittle drag and it will keep going depending on how hard you dragged itthis can be very helpful for getting from one place to another from what I have seen.
Then there is the dynamic zoom in and out cclick and hold and it continues to zoom until you let up on the mouse and the same for zooming out.
I think dynamic brush sizes and hardness might also be connected but I am bnot sure you need Open GL for that. I didn’t really gfet a chance top use it I just saw it work. I think there might be something else as well.
Ann, I run a G5 quad with no leaks, all the research I have done suggests leaving them running 24/7 so the coolant system never has a chance to heat up and cool down/expand and contract (which seems to be the cause of the leaks… I hope) I have 16gig of ram and a few big hard drives, it’s the fastest G5 they ever made without a doubt.
Mine’s a late 2005 model and has Apple care until late 2009 so if anything’s going to go I hope it happens before then!
I’ve also been running a G5 Quad at work for about two years. No leaks.
I knew about the issue but not the suggestion of leaving the machine running 24/7. Not sure there’s validity in that but it sounds reasonable. Guess I’m smarter than I realized though – I leave it running 24/7 for backup purposes.
(don’t tell my boss but actually, I hope it does start to leak – I want a Mac Pro at work)
all the research I have done suggests leaving them running 24/7 so the coolant system never has a chance to heat up and cool down/expand and contract (which seems to be the cause of the leaks… I hope)
In these energy-conscious times, what does this do to your electric bill?
…how can you say that, you’re working in a charmed world
2009 will see Apple’s Intel only Snow Leopard OS, allegedly aimed at performance and stability rather than at features. Obviously we do not know how long it will take SL to be stable enough for us, but it could be very soon, such as the way the first MacIntels worked well without a long stabilizing curve.
IMO graphics pro users are best off trying for longer rather than shorter productive life cycles with their box purchases.
She does not like the idea but she willmake tthe right decision and not invest in an oolder system. Besiides it is her own preaching she would be going against6 if she did.
One thing I did learn is that I will never get another Mac with the standard graphics card. Fortunately, I listened to Allen and got my G5 Quad with the 7800GT and I think from here on out, the graphics card is going to be an important factor in configuration of a new computer. It’s not just for gamers anymore 🙂
The one concern I would have with a high-powered card in an older Mac is how hard it taxes the computer’s power supply. If it runs too hot, it’ll burn out.
Apparently the video card that I have bought comes with a power-splitter cable which you need to attach to the Power Supply.
Requires connection to your computers internal power supply for operation (12v power splitter cable included) A 400W power supply is recommended, especially if your Mac has upgraded hardware installed.
I think that my OEM one is probably 450 watts but I am not certain.
— Sorry Doug, I didn’t a video card for you because this was the only suitable one that I was able to find anywhere on the Web.
Regarding whether a quad G5 is required to get PCI slots – my G5 is a Dual 2 GHz and it has a PCI buss/slots.
I have no idea how available these machines are on the used market, but obviously, it’s not necessary to get a quad for PCI capability.
Still, in pursuit of the bleeding edge in performance, it’s probably not a good idea to go after an old machine. Then again, if it works, that’s a pretty big savings.
However, OWC, ATI and nVidea all told me that I needed a AGP x8 card with Mac Firmware to run under OSX on that machine and the only card currently in commercial production that was suitable for my machine and my NEC 2690WUXi monitor was the Radeon 9600 Pro for Mac (which is the card that I already had) but it does not support Shader Model 3.0 and OpenGL 2.0.
The nVidia GeForce 7800 GT includes Shader Model 3.0 and that is basically the difference. Both have 256 VRAM and can support large Displays.
These are the vital statistics of the new card (as stated in the Seller (AppleMacanix)’s Ad. ) :
Model: nVidia GeForce 7800 GT
Slot Compatibility: AGP 4x/8x ROM (Firmware) Revision v2152 (Newest) VRAM: 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 Memory Clock 700MHz (1,400MHz GDDR3) GPU Clock 450MHz Hardware Compatibility: Any 4x AGP G4 (Digital Audio, Quicksilver, Mirrored Drive Door, FireWire 800) or any G5 with an AGP slot OS Compatibility OS 9.2.2 (No 3D Acceleration), OS X Tiger 10.4.6 – 10.5 Leopard Connectors VGA, DVI-I (S-Video functionality is not available) Display Modes: VGA, DVI, VGA+DVI, VGA+VGA (w/included adapter), Extended Desktop, Mirrored Display Core Image Support: Yes Quartz Extreme Support: Yes Maximum Analog (CRT) Resolution: 2048 x 1536 @ 85hz Maximum DVI (LCD): Resolution: 2560 x 1600 @ 60hz (up to 30 " Apple Cinema HD Display) Condition Brand New Includes (1) Video Card, (1) DVI-VGA Adapter, (1) 12v Power Splitter
Description BRAND NEW Apple Macintosh compatible nVidia GeForce 7800 GT AGP graphics card with 256MB of 256-bit GDDR3 memory. This item has been tested and is guaranteed to arrive in working condition. It will work with any 4x AGP G4 (Digital Audio, Quicksilver, Mirrored Drive Door, FireWire 800) or any G5 Power Mac with an AGP slot. If you are looking for the absolute fastest video card for your AGP Power Mac, look no further – this is it! This video card is much faster than the ATI Radeon 9800 series, and is even faster than the mighty ATI Radeon X800 XT by 10-25%. Also, this card will run a 30" Apple Cinema HD DVI display at full 2560×1600 resolution!>>>>>> ——
It was actually hard to find a better card than the OEM in my G5 Dual 1.8; one that didn’t cost a bloody fortune (as I don’t do gaming, video, film, etc.). I wound up with the same ATI Radeon 9600 that Ann has now found to be obsolescent.
For me, I’ll check out the new hardware available after New Years to make my next step and make a decision from there.
You may finish-up having to get a Flashed-for-Mac version of a Windows nVidea card like the one that I am getting because there seems to be nothing else.
It was actually hard to find a better card than the OEM in my G5 Dual 1.8; one that didn’t cost a bloody fortune (as I don’t do gaming, video, film, etc.)
It was exactly this situation, created entirely by Apple, that gave rise to the wide use of flashed, mutant video-cards. You can’t buy comparable production cards made for the Mac that can compete with the flashed cards. Apple’s fault. :/
It’d be just my luck to buy one of the 500 dollar cards and I’d blow a radiator hose in the G5 and have Apple Care buy me a new intel Mac that won’t need it or is incapable of running it.
Thanks for the links, Ann! It’d be just my luck to buy one of the 500 dollar cards and I’d blow a radiator hose in the G5 and have Apple Care buy me a new intel Mac that won’t need it or is incapable of running it.
My computer is now post-AppleCare so I would be out of luck on that score.
Regarding on-line purchases: there is an independent outfit called Square Trade that provides a three-year full warranty (free replacement or purchase-price refund) if you buy an item from one of the Square Trade accredited companies.
Their fee is 10% of the original purchase price.
I think that it is probably worth buying it to cover my new card.
It looks as if the Vidia 7300 cards do have the Model Shader 3.0 support but they may not have sufficient VRAM. I understand that a minimum of 256 MB of VRAM is required for CS4.
Anyone out there with an ’07 MacPro and the stock 7300 card and Photoshop CS4? Any comments?
I’ll probably wait until I have it installed to see how the 128mb cards function with it, then move to the 8800’s if needed. I am driving a 30" Cinema so that in itself may warrant at least 1 8800 card for CS4.
New cards stronger than the 8800 are out or coming out that will work well in our 2006/07 Mac Pros. Generally I think you will find that you only need one card. Pre-CS4 tests are at: <http://www.barefeats.com/harper19.html>
Personally I will wait for actual tests of cards with CS4 before further upgrading.
I’ve currently got 2 cards installed though. I imagine replacing the main card would be sufficient since I don’t anticipate using Photoshop on the third connected monitor.
And yes, I am waiting to see Photoshop CS4 first hand on my current system before investing in video cards. I know there’s no need for a better video card with Illustrator CS4.
I have just installed my new nVidia GeForce 7800 GT 256MB AGPx8 Video Card (a mutant card with firmware-updated for Mac; and the only Model Shader 3.0 card that seems to be available for G5/AGP x8 Bus Macs). Cost: about $338.
All of the OpenGL features of CS4 now work and CS4, which is the most exciting, and stable, version of Photoshop that I have yet seen, simply ROCKS!
Did you order the same card Ann got, Buko? Or did you order the one for the G4 too?
Last year I paid about $200 for the AGP 4X nVidia GeForce 7800 GS 425MHz 256MB graphics display card w/support for Shader Model 3.0 and OpenGL 2.0 I put in my G4.
It came with two tiny pieces of clear tape stuck on the gold contacts which you leave in place for an AGP x4 Bus but peel off for a G5 with an AGP x8 Bus.
A few years back, Apple decided they would cut down on desk cabling (and lock in hardware sales to themselves) They did this by combining all cables for their monitors into a single one. This meant that these new "ADC" monitors had to be used with an Apple branded video card with an ADC output. This ADC connector had the usual AGP connections but also had connections for power to run the monitor. This power was 25V and came from an extra little socket added in front of the AGP connector. This only has 2 connections so the other connections needed to be added into the existing AGP connector. The other connections added included USB and connections for the power switch and a button to launch "Display Preferences"
To do this little magic trick, Apple decided to use some (then) unassigned pins in the AGP connector. Two of these pins, the 3 & 11 pins later got re-assigned to be the pins that "enable" 8X AGP. What this means is that when an 8X AGP card is inserted into one of these Macs, the Mac will not even power on. Putting tape over 3 & 11 allows the Mac to run normally.
Have a look at this guide for the BEST way to do this:
It looks as if the Vidia 7300 cards do have the Model Shader 3.0 support but they may not have sufficient VRAM.
The 7300s included with early Mac Pro have 256MB of VRAM. You can’t look at the specs for a Windows version and assume it’s the same for the Mac version. Check the specs from Apple’s site.
Ramón- Personally, I wouldn’t go anywhere near anything to do with strangedogs.com. I’ve read numerous reports over the years at various places that some of these people are shady at best. Many accusations of fraud, eBay bans and former domains being pulled. That you have to register to enter this one is a clue. I don’t know if any of this is true but where’s there smoke …
Allen-
New cards stronger than the 8800 are out or coming out that will work well in our 2006/07 Mac Pros. Generally I think you will find that you only need one card. Pre-CS4 tests are at: …
There’s no indication newer cards are coming out soon for Macs (that I’ve seen), let alone cards that are out now. Note those "Pre-CS4 tests" were run in Vista!
The general consensus for current Mac Pro video card offerings is that if you want the best game performance, the nVidia 8800 GT is the way to go. For 3D production app performance (video, Aperture, Motion, etc), the ATI/AMD Radeon 3870 HD seems to be the ticket.
I purchased the 3870 a few months ago for my 2006 Mac Pro and couldn’t be happier with it. At $217 from OWC, it’s definitely provides the best bang for the buck.
I purchased the 3870 a few months ago for my 2006 Mac Pro and couldn’t be happier with it. At $217 from OWC, it’s definitely provides the best bang for the buck.
Phil-
Although at this point the 3870 looks promising, we don’t really know yet what card(s) will provide optimal performance with CS4.
I include your 3870 in the new cards "out or coming out" that I recommend waiting for production CS4 tests of. My main point however is that at this point folks concerned with CS4 performance should WAIT for hardware tests with production CS4 before deciding on graphics card upgrades.
The only thing unappealing about strangedogs.com is the dog breed from which they derive their name and which fills up most of their site.
I didn’t even know that they sell anything, if that accusation is true. But there’s lots of good information there, and not just on the Chinese Crested Dog.
the nVidia Quadro FX 3700. I don’t know if it works on Apple computers
It can be flashed with the Mac ROM (by those who know how to do that kind of thing) like the other cards we’ve been discussing here, but whether you can stick it in a given model of Mac will depend on whether the card matches the Mac slot, AGP 4X, AGP 8X or PCIexpress.
BTW the tape doesn’t "hold" anything together; it merely isolates two contact pins on the back of the card.
tHe nvidia GeForce 7300 GT for the Mac does support shader 3.0 and Open GL 2.0.
Actually I do not know about shader but it does work with with the open GL features of CS4. I saw this working with PS CS4 and it worked fine but it could only support 8 Open GL documents at a time after the 8th one was opened and you then open the 9th you lost the open GL support. So we tested a GeForce 8800 and it gave me 15 Open GL documents.
So I purchased one and have it in my Mac, but it is an older version of the 8800 made for the older Intels.
However that means I have a GeForce 7300 GT sitting in a draw. Whether it fits your Mac’s slot I can not know.
BTW the number of Open GL documents you can have opened depends on a number of factors such as screen resolution and on board memory. The 8800 has 512MB. The next Mac I get I probably will install a Quadro be it almost as expensive as the Mac itself.
I believe our ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT cards should support CS4. However the VRAM is minimum, and what cards/setups are optimal for CS4 we will not know until after tests of production CS4.
The ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT card features a 256MB GDDR3 frame buffer…
Pre-CS4 tests showed the 2600 as a very good value card for pro apps that works with 2006 MPs, which is why I bought one. But that was before I realized that the card requires Leopard, so the card still sits unused.
So PS CS4 is going to work perfectly with 10.4.11? I’m not planing any upgrades because of my FreeHand MX addiction, it’s (FreeHand) perfectly stable on 10.4.11 so that’s where I’m staying.
The "nVidia Quadro FX 4500 512MB Video Card Quad G5 PowerMac" should work in your Quad but it IS expensive:
Damn, Ann, if I’d bought that 3 weeks ago it would have been 780 dollars Australian (equal to the US dollar), now with our dollar dropping close to 30% it’s more like 1100 dollars in Aussie peso’s.
The "nVidia Quadro FX 4500 512MB Video Card Quad G5 PowerMac" should work in your Quad but it IS expensive
My guess is that once CS4 is out and tested we will likely find that such large investments in legacy G5s are most often inappropriate, the exception being folks like Ramón with other legacy hardware and/or apps that make moving forward not worth the substantial cost and effort involved.
My Quad G5 is staying as long as it works, there are no speed issues at all but throwing over a grand at it to optimize the video redraw will have to be a real time saving benefit to get a serious looking at.
more than $4000 for a new MacIntel? (None of your existing RAM can be used in it and your printer may have to be replaced as well! And a number of subsidiary applications (like older versions of Office) will have to be upgraded too )
Thanks, but I’ll take the Card and wait for my G5 to die.
Regarding currency exchange rates: who knows where this will end?!
My Mac Pro was nowhere near $4k. And when I bought mine.. RAM was $700+ for 4GB now it’s less than $250 for 4GB.
I would have upgraded Office anyway… as well as the Creative Suite.
But I do agree that $2k vs. $700 is a big difference. Thing is my MacPro won’t need to be replaced for (hopefully) a decade. PPC will die with CS5 or CS6 I bet. So, 3 years tops until it reaches it’s end if not 18 months.
Also need to factor in resell value. A year ago I was able to sell by Dual 1.8GHZ G5 and it covered more than 50% of the cost of my MacPro. Out of pocket mine only cost me $1k + RAM costs.
Even now you can’t get that return on a G5 and in 2 years you’ll be lucky to cover 1/3 the cost of a new MacPro by selling a G5.
So if you factor in a G5 resell.. you’re looking at $700 vs maybe $1200. The difference is not nearly as great.
I’m looking to Keep the G5 as the main work horse until 10.6 is released I want nonthing to do with a computer that must only run Leopard. I I have Leopard but not on my G5. I am getting ready to put it back on the test drive before I wipe it again.
I plan to just use it until it drops dead and I replace it; or, if it keeps going, I’ll either keep it as back-up storage or give it away to some kid who would like it.
I have all my Macs they have absolutely no monetary value so I might as well keep them. the G5 is a great workhorse that will do fine as a server/backup machine when I get a Mac Pro.
Ann, got my new power supply for the G5 and am up and running again. But I’m confused. I have a GeForce 6800 Ultra video card. A google reveals that it’s supposed to have OpenGL capabilities. This will or will not get out of CS4 the advanced video features you’ve talked about?
Doug:
I’m so glad that you finally got your new Power Supply and have the machine up and running again.
It’s not only the OpenGL 2 feature that you need for CS4 but ALSO the Shader Model 3.0 support in order to use CS4’s OpenGL features.
My previous card (ATI Radeon 9600) nominally had both features but Shader Model was version 2 which is not sufficient.
Let’s put it this way: $300 is a LOT cheaper than buying a new Mac Pro and having to suffer getting Leopard dumped on you in addition.
I find that having the ability to use the OpenGL features is worth every penny of that $300 but it might be wise to take a trial run if you can find CS4 on a computer that can use the OpenGL features.
I have a DP 2.0 G5 with an ATI X800 XT card. I just replaced the fan a few weeks ago and, rather than buying a new GC, I’m saving up for the new MP’s coming next year. Besides the lack of canvas rotation, what other important features am I missing out on?
Below is a list of the Photoshop CS4 and Bridge CS4 features that are accelerated by a GPU. To read more about these features, see "GPU accelerated features in Photoshop and Bridge CS4" (TechNote kb405745).
OpenGL/GPU features in Adobe Photoshop CS4 are:
* Smooth Display at ALL Zoom Levels * Animated Zoom Tool * Animated Transitions when doing a One Stop Zoom * Hand Toss Image * Birdseye View * Rotate Canvas * Smooth Display of Non Square Pixel Images * Pixel Grid * Move Color Matching to the GPU * Draw Brush Tip Editing Feedback via GPU * 3D GPU features include: o 3D Acceleration o 3D Axis o 3D Lights Widget o Accelerated 3D Interaction via Direct To Screen
Thanks for the info, John. My card supports OpenGL 2.0, but not Shader 3.0. I’m just wondering if all of these GPU features require support for both, or if Shader 3.0 applies to only some of these. I’ll download the demo and see how well my card does.
Yes, I’m getting used to this "waiting" thing. I’m still hoping that they get their upgrading page fixed so it allows for upgrading from CS3 Extended to CS4. How long does it normally take Adobe for a demo of a new release to be uploaded?
Hi…. I’ve got a June 2004 dual 2.5ghz G5. Its Radeon 9800 XT card does not suppport openGL in CS4. I can get a nVidia GeForce 7800 GT for Mac card. Ann, this card is working well for you?