Irma,
What you’re seeing is obviously not normal behavior. I can think of two possibilities :
1) Virus action- A virus in your system could cause all the problems you list.
2) Bad hardware, probably RAM memory or motherboard.
If you’re not running a virus scanner, you should be . <
http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_dwnl_free.php> is the link for free antivirus software for home users ( they do hope you’d buy the advanced edition, of course <G> ) .
The only troubleshooting solution I know of , besides a virus scan, is to completely reload the operating system and start fresh. That involves backing up everything you want to save, and it’s a chore !
If you go that route, after the OS is installed , install just Elements and see whether or not you can work with your images. If so, then begin installing other applications, checking frequently that the system still works. As you can see, I don’t think this is an easy fix, unless you’re "lucky" and have a virus. It sounds like hardware problems to me, but maybe I’m being pessimistic .
Perhaps others will have some suggestions.
🙁
Brent
Brent
I forgot to mention that I do have virus protection..Norton Internet Security, the latest updates & also it scans frequently for viruses on computer, as well as a firewall. This has been in place since initial setup in December. I have already done #2), with a new entire computer in January thru Dell, as they could not figure it out, either. Then they helped me reformat that one in February, starting all over again with programs. I did then what you suggested, by only installing Elements for a while. I thought it was solved as it worked for a while, but has started up again. Seems like a bad cold that is turning to pneumonia (pardon the analogy, but I am a retired nurse & that is the best way for me to describe it!).
I do have battery B/U with APC, I just haven’t gotten it set up with this computer, so will definitely do that…thanks for the reminder!
Were you running Norton when you installed the Adobe software? If so that could be your problem right there. Most applications advise disabling any antivirus software before installing new applications, and it has been noted many times in the past that Norton and Adobe do not play well together. If you were running Norton when you put these programs on, do a complete uninstall of your Adobe apps, disable Norton, and then do a reinstall of PS and PSE. Usually Norton can then be turned on again and Adobe programs run. A few people have to disable Norton to use Adobe, but that’s extremely rare.
Beth
I don’t remember whether I turned it off or not, so I will try that. However, it’s not just Adobe programs that act up. OE 6.0 initially would sometimes & sometimes not let me attach photos before disapearing from screen (whole program), but now it is all the time!
Also, the other simple photo programs I have downloaded (mostly to see if they would work when Adobe would not) behave the same way.
If this is a system wide problem, then it sounds like more drastic measures are called for. 🙁
Irma,
Are there other large demands on the electric circuit you have your computer plugged into? It is a grounded plug, right…
Irma,
As the others have indicated in their replys, a number of things can cause the type of problem you are having.
The most likely thing happening is a bad memory reference. The program tried to read, write, or execute something and either the location was not valid or not accessible by the program. This can be caused by hardware or software. The symptoms are as you described: the program can abruptly terminate with no messages (it looks like it vanishes), or the operating system was able to issue an error message (usually it will say something like illegal or invalid address somewhere in the message but it might not in some cases).
Software caused problems are usually the result of corrupted or missing program modules, or bad configuration, or even program errors. I think this is unlikely in your case. Yes, you should disable the virus checker while installing and Elements/Photoshop requires you to have administrator priveleges on Windows XP and it’s true a virus could cause this. But, the problem is global and affects more than one program and you reinstalled the operating system.
I think it’s much more likely to be a hardware problem (motherboard or memory). Did the system come preinstalled with the 768 MB or did you add some afterwards?
I would start by running a memory diagnostic program to see if it detects a problem with the installed memory. Here are a couple of free ones:
http://www.memtest86.com/ and
http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp I’ve heard good things about memtest86. I haven’t heard anything about the Microsoft tool, I mention it only to give you an alternative. These are stand alone tests which means you install them on a floppy disk and boot from that disk to run the diagnostics. You can still have a hardware problem if the tests come out ok (they can’t catch all errors) but if a problem is found it’s pretty well definitive.
You may want Dell to replace your PC. I don’t know if you’re still within the window to do that though. You might need to talk to a customer service supervisor. Since you’ve been in contact with them about this problem with no resolution, you may be able to convince them to swap it even if the exchange window is closed.
Good luck!
Bob
Nancy
Yes, I use a high quality surge protector, dedicated only to my computer. Bob
I spent a fair amount of what free time I had today trying to use the dx programs you sent. Don’t know if I’m just more tired than I realize, but can’t get either one of them to work. The Microsoft one seemed easier to get it to boot, but didn’t happen. Yes, I did add RAM after I bought the computer. Dell has already replaced the entire computer in January (which I did transfer the same RAM to!)If that is the problem, why wouldn’t it show up right away, instead of working ok @ first, then gradually getting worse. Also, if that is it, why is it mostly the jpegs & gifs? I can (or could the last time I tried) open & work on large psd files (ie 50-60 MB) & have no problems. Perhaps the easiest is to just take out the RAM I added & see if the problem goes away? Could it really be that easy after all this hassle?
Also, what should the scratch disc settings be if one doesn’t have partitions? I have the first one set for "Startup" & the second for "C drive". Every once in a while the program will tell me to change the settings to optimize use. I don’t know if it’s worth it to continue trying to get one of the diagnostics to work.
Thanks for your continued (I hope) help!
Irma
Irma,
First, about the scratch disks. For a system with a single disk (one partition) there is no advantage to be gained from having multiple scratch disks. In fact, having more than one on the same disk can degrade performance. Specify "startup" for the first and set the remaining to "none".
Regarding the added memory. Definitely try removing the memory module you added and see if the problem goes away. Your system has two slots for memory so I’m guessing it came with 256Mb and you added 512MB. If so, removing the module will probably cause Photoshop or Elements to run slower. Don’t worry about that for now, the main point is to see if you still have the other problems. If the problems go away, it’s definitely the memory module.
Anything that would cause the memory allocation to access the bad locations in the added module could trigger the problem. Attaching a jpg or gif to email probably blows up because the email program is loaded and run to perform that action. That represents a substantial increase in memory utilization.
As to why it worked ok at first and gradually worsened, I can think of at least one possibility. Windows XP has a caching mechanism whereby it watches which program modules are most frequently loaded and preloads them into memory. When the operating system is first installed, the cache is small. As you use the system, the cache grows and you begin using more and more memory. This helps the system to run faster but the extra memory utilization will help push you into the range where you will be more apt to encounter the bad memory. The problem would most likely worsen with time.
What type of memory module did you install? Was it high quality name brand memory like Crucial or Kingston or was it generic memory?
Bob
Bob
It was Kingston 512 & I matched it exactly with the speed of the other one (my neighbor is much more knowledgeable than I & helped me with that!). I realize, however, that there are never guarantees with anything these days!
I will take out the added RAM & see what happens…is there any way to remove the cache so it can start from the beginning (other than reformatting)?
Irma
Irma,
The preload cache is actually a good thing and I wouldn’t recommend disabling it. I don’t believe you can control the size, only disable and that would slow down things.
The best bet is to see if the symptoms go away after the new memory module is removed. Kingston is a reputable manufacturer and stands behind their products. I normally wouldn’t expect a problem with their memory but things happen. It could have even been damaged by a static discharge during installation — who knows.
It’s entirely possible that something else could be wrong, but with two machines having the same problem and the memory module being the common component between them it does seem suspect.
I hope it does turn out to be the memory module, that’s easy to replace. If it isn’t the memory module, I’m at a loss as to what to do next. It’s too bad you couldn’t get the memory diagnostic programs to run.
Please let us know what happens.
Bob
Bob
My neighbor reminded me about the diagnostic CD that comes with XP. I used it & had it test pretty much everything, including the system memory from all the different ways it would. The bottom line is that it passed ALL! What it said in the configuration area was
"System Memory Configuration
768MB
Available Ranges
0000000h……>0009FFFFh
0100000h……>2FE73FFFh"
It put it thru Data Bus Stress, MATS, March A Test, etc, & all passed. I tested the whole system: System Board, System Management, System Memory, Hard Drive. The VESA SVGA Video test came back saying "1024K VESA video memory".
Based on this info, do you still think it could be the RAM? I haven’t taken the RAM out yet becuz a plumbing problem in my bathroom (yuk) seems to have taken priority for the moment. So……………..???? This thing is still driving me nuts!!
Thanks, tho, for yours & anyone else’s help!!
Irma
Irma, I know there have been times when RAM was good enough to pass a diagnostic but not quite good enough when it was in use. I’d join with the others and recommend you pull that one stick and see what happens without it.
Beth, Bob, anyone?
Does it matter in what order I do these things (reinstall PSE & P 7.0 with anti-virus disabled) or (take out the 512 Kingston RAM I added to the system after I bought it)?
Thanks…still acting up…………………..(uninstalled a few things not being used & fixed scratch disk stuff already).
Irma
I scanned this thread and see where you’re having problems with programs other than PSE and PS 7.0. In that case, I’d definitely remove the RAM first and see how the computer performs (besides being more sluggish that is!) If you see that problems with other apps are clearing up, then you can work on the two "Photoshops". If you’d just been noticing problems with the Adobe apps, that’s one thing, but I’m going on the assumption the problem still extends further than that.
Irma,
Sorry to take so long to respond, I’ve been very busy and not scanning the forum as frequently or as thoroughly as I usually do.
I agee with Beth. Definitely remove the added RAM first and see if that makes a difference. You want to eliminate or identify hardware problems before you attempt to do anything with the software.
Software memory checkers are guidelines not absolutes. It is terribly difficult to identify all possible hardware memory problems with a software memory checker and the various ones that exist differ considerably in their thoroughness and effectiveness. If the memory fails the test, you can be pretty sure the memory module is defective but memory that checks out good with a software memory checker can still be bad. You will need to remove the memory module to be sure.
If you remove the memory module and the problem is still there, then you will need to look further. Should that be the case, I’d check to see if Dell has updates for the bios or video driver for your system — especially the video driver, it’s typical for integrated video motherboards to share the system RAM rather than dedicate separate video memory. Both bios and drivers could affect how memory is used and, while unlikely, could be involved.
Since more than one application is having problems, it’s unlikely to be an application problem. It’s more likely to be hardware or operating system (including drivers) related. You’ve swapped the hardware with the exception of the added memory module which was used on both systems and you’ve effectively swapped the operating system. That makes the memory module the "prime suspect".
Bob
Beth, Bob, etc?
I’ve spent countless hours copying files in case (God help me!)something doesn’t go as planned when I take out the RAM, which I plan on doing tomorrow (fri)am. My question is: as I was doing this, I found a "purge cache" option under the "more" section under the ‘File browser" in PSE (did I lose you..? I hope not!) When I clicked on it, it said it would "purge all previously generated thumbnails & metadata". Would it help to do this, as I have deleted almost all of my pictures (copied to CD’s)?. I have left a few files that I am trying to get ready to print for Sunday. Would I then have to make new thumbnails for them? What is the metadata? Since I have copied all my pix, if there is a problem with the pix themselves, have I just copied the problems with the pix?
I’ll let you know what happens after the RAM is out…cross your fingers, toes, whatever, that the problem will be solved!
Thanks for your previous help, & probable additional help! Irma
Irma, I don’t think that cache is making much difference in terms of the problem you describe, but people often have to purge it in order to speed up the program. Over time that thing will bog things down. I seriously doubt you need those thumbnails anyway. The Browser is going to display image files on your hard drive, so if you’ve moved them to CD, there isn’t much point in having the thumbs available anymore. If you ever insert the CD, new thumbnails would be generated when you open and browse it anyway, since the files would no longer be where the browser "thinks" they are, it wouldn’t reopen old thumbs.
Hmmm. That’s certainly a rambling paragraph isn’t it?! Did you get the part where I said it wouldn’t make any difference if you purged it?! 🙂
Irma,
The purge cache command is harmless. It will not change your pictures or files in any way. Elements stores information about the files and folders you’ve used (that’s the metadata) to speed up processing next time you return to them. It also stores thumbnails, if they exist, so that it can display them faster in the browser. The worst that could happen is that the cache will regenerate when you access the files/folders again. This could slow you down the first access but you’ll be fine after that.
Should you ever get a message that the cache/scratch disks are almost full, then you will need to execute the purge cache command. Until then, you don’t need to worry much about it. If you work with a lot of files, purging the cache once in a while will free up the space in the cache occupied by older metadata/thumbs that you may have long since removed. Since you have copied the files and deleted them off the disk drive, it would probably be a good time to use this command so you’ll have a clean start.
As for the files themselves. Copying them to cd should keep them "as is", if there is an error in one of them the error will copy also. That’s another reason for keeping a backup of your original images.
I don’t expect that simply removing the ram module will cause a problem. You may get a message from the bios if it notices the change in ram. Acknowledge it and continue.
Good luck, I hope this will clear up the problem.
Bob
Bob, Beth, etc?
Well, I thought for a little bit (you notice a LITTLE bit) the problem was solved….however, NADA. It keeps saying ‘explorer has detected a problem & has to close’, or the program disappears (PSE). I will now un-install, then re-install PSE & PS 7.0 making sure Norton is disabled, but I don’t hold much hope that that will solve it based on other things you have said.
I did purge the thumbnail cache last night & did a disk defrag after all the pix CDs I had burned, etc., & a few of the files I am keeping in my recycle bin temporarily until I am sure the CDs will work ok.
Next idea?????
BOB, BETH, ANYONE!!
It is acting just a squirrely as it ever did on its worst behavior…freezes & wouldn’t even let me use Task Manager to get out of PS, so had to just hold in the ‘off button’ until it went off, then turn it back on just to be able to get to this forum. It did the same thing yesterday, before removing the extra RAM!! I have now uninstalled PSE & PE 7.0, & will reinstall them with Norton disabled, but wanted to add this info first. I’m very discouraged, as I have so much to do & everything I try takes 3-6 times longer because of these problems!!
I was searching to see if there was any info I could pull up about what it was doing & found a section under ‘Performance Options’ that said the "paging file size" I am using is "1152MB" & did I want to change it. I canceled out of it, but didn’t know if that is a setting that is messed up (I have never looked @ it before, let alone changed it!!)
NOW WHAT??
I don’t mean to take out my frustrations @ any of you, but I have been dealing with this problem in one form or another since December & it looks like I am not any closer to having it fixed yet, so please don’t take anything personal!!
Irma
Irma, I’m not ignoring you, but since I use Macs almost exclusively I’ve already overdrawn my very limited knowledge bank about Windows troubleshooting. I do wish you luck, though, and certainly don’t take anything personally. I’m just sorry I don’t have another suggestion – especially one that works!
Irma,
I’m very sorry to hear you are still having problems. I can certainly understand your frustrations. Be assured I don’t feel you’re taking it out on us. I just wish we could have identified the source of the problem so it could have been corrected.
It’s beginning to look like you’re going to need to take the computer in to a repair shop to diagnose and correct the problem. It’s a hassle but there’s only so much you can do on your own. You should be still be covered by the Dell warrenty — would you need to ship it to them or did you opt for the in-house service plan?
The problem is unlikely to be related to PSE or PS 7.0, the problems with OE and Explorer make that clear. That says either the operating system (Windows) is messed up or there is a problem with the hardware. I’m still leaning towards hardware problems but it is possible Windows could have gotten corrupted somehow.
Does your neighbor know enough to be able to look at the system event log and interpret the entries? The system log can be viewed by going to the control panel, performance and maintenance, administrative tools. Execute the "Event Viewer" application. The event viewer will show a tree (like in the Explorer) on the left with three nodes: application, security, and system. Click on "system" and the system log entries will show in the right window pane. If there are any with "red x" icons, those may give a clue to what’s happening. You can do the same with the application node. Clicking on a specific message will give more details about the message. Probably won’t mean much to anyone not very familiar with PC maintenance though — it’s mainly intended for the technical support folks.
There are a couple of more things you can try first if you feel up to it. One is to take out the 256 MB module and install just the 512 MB one to see if the problem gets better, worse, or stays the same (that’s to check out the possibility that the 256MB module is the defective one and not the 512). The other is to leave in just the original 256MB memory chip and reformat the disk and reinstall Windows. That’s pretty extreme, but if you do that and the problem persists, you probably have defective hardware somewhere.
About now, I think I would be telling Dell to fix it or replace it.
The "1152MB" paging file size you mentioned is normal for the amount of RAM you had installed. Windows, by default, will set the paging file size to
1.5 times the total ram installed. 1.5*768=1152, so your number matches.
Bob
Bob
I found what you are talking about earlier this afternoon (Event Viewer), even though I didn’t know how to interpret anything! I will ask Chris (my neighbor) if he can look @ it.
The thing about telling Dell to fix or replace: they have already replaced the whole system (January), & redone the hard drive 2 other times, & it still persists. The last time I called them, I got one of those guys who can only keep saying "I’m sorry you’re having so many problems. We will do our best to fix it" & then, no-one can figure it out. Since they have replaced the whole system (January) & it still persists, I guess I don’t understand how it could be the same problem in two completely different systems! (The 256 RAM with it would have been new). That’s why, I guess, I had so expected the 512 RAM to be the culprit, as it is the ONLY common denominator I see, (agreed?) I am way over on my replacement warranty, so would have to check if they would send someone out, or if I have to ship it to them, but my guess is to send it. Knowing my luck, it would behave perfectly for them, as they wouldn’t do the same kinds of things as I do! Can you tell I have NO faith left with Dell Tech support?
I have reinstalled PSE with Norton off & worked with a few pix this eve without problems so far. Is it too much to hope for that the Explorer thing could just be becuz Adobe didn’t like being installed with Norton on? I shutter to hope too much, but I’m sure I will soon
find out. I decided to only start with PSE, to keep it simple for the moment. I will try again Sat am, as my mind is gone for tonight. Thanks for hanging in there with me! Irma
Bob Beth, anyone else w/ ideas!
As an update, I have been working with just PE2 since I last updated, to keep variables simple. The only trouble I have had is that it has locked up a few times in PE2, but usually after I have either used it for a while w/o re-booting, or have had lots of pix open (running still w/ only 256 RAM). It has also had a few of its error messages about having to close, but nothing like before!! One thing I have noticed is that it has been harder to get the program to close down after locking up…Task Manager doesn’t always work & have had to sometimes just turn the computer off….just the thought makes me cringe! I am thinking of tring to add back the Kingston 512 RAM & see how it performs. I think that would be better to try first before reinstalling PS7. What do you think?
Is it really possible that the whole problem could have been related to not disabling Norton when installing the programs initially?
Thanks again for all your help!!
Irma
Irma,
Yes, I agree, it’s probably time to try the Kingston 512 memory again.
It’s a good sign that your system was much more stable with just the original 256MB ram module. However, 256MB is a tad skimpy for Windows XP especially doing image editing. Windows tends to have problems when it’s short on RAM and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it turned out that your present freezes and error messages were related to that. Windows is a lot more stable when you have ample RAM.
I would suggest adding the memory back in two stages. First, remove the 128MB ram module and replace it with just the 512MB module. Now, use the computer for a while with just the Kingston memory and see how it works. Hopefully it will still work well. If the severe problems return, the Kingston module is most likely defective or not the right one for your system.
Then, if every thing is running well with just the Kingston module, add back the 128MB module and see whether your system continues to run well or whether that makes it worse. If it does become worse, just use the Kingston memory. Even if both memory modules are ok, it’s possible that timing and operational differences between the two could create problems when used together in the same system.
I’d do all that before reinstalling PS7.
While it’s possible that not disabling Norton before installing could be related, that would normally only cause problems with executing Elements or PS7. You had broader problems. Problems like you were having are more often caused by hardware problems with RAM or the motherboard.
Bob
Bob
Thanks…that’s kind of what I was thinking, except I hadn’t thought of taking out the original 256 first. However, I think that is a great idea! Hopefully it will still continue to work well…..I’ll keep you posted!!
Irma
I do agree with all of You about the that the memory is most likely the problem. But .. this is a "longshot", (if I got it right): the computer was running OK when it’s was new and the problems have escalated during time of use?
Have you tried to defrag the disk, since you are doing a lot of file copy/delete/move/change ..?
Micke
Micke
Thanks for your input on this "out of the ordinary" problem! I actually defrag frequently. I wish that would be the solution, believe me!! I haven’t had a chance yet to exchange out to the 512 RAM, as I have had 2 young grandkids here full time this week, but plan to ASAP. I’m still running on the theory that it is becuz Adobe doesn’t like to be installed with antiviral software enabled, which I wasn’t careful about in prior installs. Time will tell, however, as I see what happens when I exchange out the RAM. Thanks again & please keep thinking!!
Irma
