Help! Changing Color Photo to B&W

Y
Posted By
YrbkMgr
Dec 3, 2006
Views
341
Replies
15
Status
Closed
I’m having the exact same issue with an Epson 1280. It seems that it is an issue that when the image is RGB, color inks are used to create grayscale, but in my case, they have a bluish cast. If the image is grayscale or if I turn off the color ink and use Black only, it prints perfectly.

Should I conclude that this is the nature of inkjets as well?

Does anyone print grayscale photos that are RGB mode sucessfully with an inkjet? If so, any hints?

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HB
Heather Bell
Dec 4, 2006
Anyone tried placing a tif of the photo in in InDeisgn, use the white select (direct) tool to make the black printing options "process black" or someother dark neutral gray, and typing the colored text in there? The RGB conversion process might work out better. I don’t have a 1280,but it would be a work around I’d try before turning in the towel.
Y
YrbkMgr
Dec 4, 2006
I appreciate that sentiment Heather, thanks. I don’t have InDesign, so that’s not an option.
HB
Heather Bell
Dec 5, 2006
Well, if it has to be a purely Photoshop "workaround", I’d try a multi channel document, placing the photograph in a custom black channel and making a custom spot channel for the red, and deleting the RGB channels, or CMY, and seeing how that worked. This is ofcourse assuming the RIP on a 1280 can process a multichannel, which I do not know. The conversion should only take 10 minutes max, so it may be worth a try.
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YrbkMgr
Dec 5, 2006
Naw, I appreciate the workaround attempt. Photoshop always prints RGB regardless of image mode, so that’s not going help.

I just figure this way: if it’s the nature of inkjet limitations, fine, I’ll live with it. I can probably get away with it, but I can’t imagine that there aren’t photographers that don’t do b/w and run into this problem. That’s why I posted, kind of "what do you guys do?".

From this thread and my own experience, it seems that this is quite a challenge, and the 1280, while a nice, nice printer, isn’t up to the task I’m asking of it.

Thanks though, Heather. I appreciate it.

Peace,
Tony
HB
Heather Bell
Dec 5, 2006
No problem, but, if you’re ever in a pinch, give it a try. My theory on it was that while your RIP may take CMYK data, process it RGB, and reconvert as many CMYK inkjets do, if all data was channeled, especially in multichannel, then the conversion process might actually limit the items on the black channel to the black nozzle of the inkjet. If anyone out there is interested in giving it a shot, I’d be interested to know how it turned out. My Epson is eight color with a Photo black cartridge, so I don’t think experiments on my end would be indicative of a four color inkjet. IE I don’t get casts on greyscale with spot color text as it is, so I wouldn’t be able to tell if it worked.
AC
Art Campbell
Dec 5, 2006
Well, this may be oversimplistic on my part, but if you really want good quality B&W prints (especially from an older printer with 4 or 5 colors), I’d suggest spending a few bucks and buying a B&W inkset for your printer… Yes, you have to spend some time and bucks for cleaning carts, but the end result is worth the effort, IMHO.

Art
Y
YrbkMgr
Dec 5, 2006
My theory on it was that while your RIP may take CMYK data, process it RGB, and reconvert as many CMYK inkjets do, if all data was channeled, especially in multichannel, then the conversion process might actually limit the items on the black channel to the black nozzle of the inkjet.

Slight correction. Photoshop will NOT send CMYK data. All data is sent as RGB, behind the scenes. So if your image is CMYK and you print it to an inkjet, PS will send RGB data, because that is what the printer wants (needs) in order to convert the data for its use.

But it’s an interesting theory on how to skew the channel data.

Art,

I’d suggest spending a few bucks and buying a B&W inkset for your printer…

This particular situation is rare – I don’t often have this issue or images composed quite like this. But I’m curious, what do you mean "buying a B&W inkset"?
AC
Art Campbell
Dec 5, 2006
There are a number of third party ink vendors who package black&white / greyscale inks in carts for printers, which totally eliminates the color casts (and usually gives you a really nice print). If you do a fair amount of B&W work and have an older printer (like the 1280, or a 2000P like I have), this is a really good way to go. I run my main printer in color mode and a second, the older one, in B&W.

Do a google for "black and white inkset 1280" or something similar and half a dozen vendors should pop up…

Art
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YrbkMgr
Dec 5, 2006
Thanks Art. I won’t be pursuing it for this adventure, but I am glad to learn that one can do that.

This whole thing sounds to me like inkjets just have trouble in this area.
JZ
Joe_Zydeco
Dec 5, 2006
Tony, as you have experienced, producing a convincing black from CMY inks is a very fussy operation. If memory serves, early Canon inkjet printers had no black cartridge, and could achieve only yukky, muddy blacks by mixing CMY.

I too have an Epson 1280, and always set it to use Black to avoid color casts. If for some reason you want to use color inks for a b&w print, go to the Epson properties dialog (where you choose Color or Black). Below that selection, set the Mode to Custom, then click the Advanced button that appears. The next dialog will let you tune out the color cast. That can also help correct an imperfect printer profile or casts from third-party inks.
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YrbkMgr
Dec 5, 2006
Joe,

I too have an Epson 1280, and always set it to use Black to avoid color casts.

Yeah, I do too, most of the time. In this case though, I have color text that has to be printed with it. I did a "two pass" trial, where I ran it through with only black and then was going to run it through with the color for the text, but the Black only pass was suboptimal until I incresed the printer resolution significantly. That takes like four times longer to print, and I have to print 75 of them, so, I opted for the cast instead instead of the increased print time.

The next dialog will let you tune out the color cast.

That may be the magic bullet I was looking for. I will try it tomorrow and let you know the results. Thanks for that tip.

But let me ask you a question about it. Do you drop the Saturation or drop the CMY? Or both? I already tried using a Desat adjustment layer in the image itself with no noticable difference, but which would you recommend?
JZ
Joe_Zydeco
Dec 6, 2006
Do you drop the Saturation or drop the CMY?

You’re talking about the group of sliders in the Advanced dialog, right? It’s been a while, but for a color cast, I just tinkered with the CMY sliders, much as I used to do in my darkroom. I don’t remember ever touching the Saturation slider. Once or twice, I may have tweaked the Brightness, but that was probably necessary only because I was lying to the printer about what kind of paper I was using, or didn’t have my monitor calibrated or some such.
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YrbkMgr
Dec 6, 2006
Great, thanks. I wonder though, if one would drop them all the way to the left, use them all, or only one. Interesting. And the other part of this equation that I didn’t count on is that there IS color text that are a specific blue and specific red, so messing with the sliders that way is likely to affect them.

Sigh. Well it’s good to know that it’s not something obvious or easy to accomplish.

Thanks man.

Peace,
Tony
JZ
Joe_Zydeco
Dec 6, 2006
Tony, no, no, no! Always to the right, never to the wacko left!

Are you feeling Ok, or has your tongue maybe fallen off into your cheek? 🙂
Y
YrbkMgr
Dec 7, 2006
Tony, no, no, no! Always to the right, never to the wacko left!

<chuckle>

<http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/5215/shrughz1.gif>

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