Critique Requested

RF
Posted By
Robert_F_Carruth
Feb 28, 2004
Views
610
Replies
21
Status
Closed
At my wifes’s insistence I entered a contest at Betterphoto.com. Don’t know how long the picture will be up since the contest ends tomorrow. This is my first effort at really heavy modification and I would appreciate all comments, good or bad. It’s at the following link. It is titled "Rockbound Coast" (original, huh?) and has my name under the thumbnail.

< http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/dynoGall2.asp?catID=560&a mp;contestCatID=1>

Thanks in advance.

Bob

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B
BobHill
Feb 28, 2004
Bob,

To me, it’s a very nice photo. For critique, I would have eliminated the boat in the water (it’s not recognizable and distracts), would have sharpened the close fir branch and made the birds a bit more prominent, highlighting some of the colors.

Bob
RF
Robert_F_Carruth
Feb 28, 2004
Bob,

That was quick! I was still checking to see if the link worked! I’m impressed with anyone that can identify trees that well.

Now you’re in for it. Two how-to questions:

My selection skills leave a lot to be desired (as evidenced by the slight white halo between sky and trees in the upper right). To sharpen the fir branch what tool would you use?

What technique to make the birds more prominent?

(Original is 1984 x 1488 ppi.)

Thanks,

Bob
RM
Ron Minler
Feb 28, 2004
wrote:
At my wifes’s insistence I entered a contest at Betterphoto.com. Don’t know how long the picture will be up since the contest ends tomorrow. This is my first effort at really heavy modification and I would appreciate all comments, good or bad. It’s at the following link. It is titled "Rockbound Coast" (original, huh?) and has my name under the thumbnail.

< http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/dynoGall2.asp?catID=560&a mp;contestCatID=1>
Thanks in advance.

Bob
Hi Robert,

Nice composition. I would remove the boat in the water and the bird in the water in the foreground — too distracting. Also I would replace or brighten up the sky and sharpen the image.
Ron
JR
John_R._Collins
Feb 28, 2004
Hi Bob,

About Robert’s suggestions,
1) The boat. I think it adds a nice balance to your picture, but it I agree with Robert that it is too small. I assume that you planted it from another picture. You could try replanting it but make it a little bigger (if its detail is present) and placed in the water so as to appear a little closer to shore.
2) The foreground firs. Use the Magic Wand Tool to select the tree and then try the unsharp mask via Filter/Sharpen to see if what you can do. You can try different settings to get the best result.
When taking this image, I might have taken two pictures, the second of which would focus on the foreground. I could then later paste the sharp fir image over the background via a layer blend (once
I figured out how to do it)..

John
J
john
Feb 28, 2004
I agree that the boat is too small to make the desired impact. Without it, however, I might be tempted to crop differently. But what stands out to my eye is an overall ‘softness’. I am sure there are others here with more experience than I on sharpening, but I would try a USM of about 250%, 0.2, 0 for the background. Maybe isolate the foreground trees and try either 500%, 0.2, 0, or perhaps 150%, 0.3, 0.

Good luck!
J
jhjl1
Feb 28, 2004
I agree with John, I would clone out the boat and sharpen. I saved the web page then opened your image and found by using the high-pass filter I was able to sharpen nicely. Duplicate layer>apply high pass filter at default setting, change blend mode to hard light on the layer then lower opacity to about 40-70. This is just an alternative to USM and seems to work where USM may introduce to much noise such as sky or water.


Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview
http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/
<
SS
Susan_S.
Feb 28, 2004
Bob- Actually at this size the modifactions are not at all obvious – I’m sure they show up a lot more at full size, so you are aware of just how much edge there is between sky and branches – but at this size they really look OK (to me anyway!). One thing you can do if you have a bit of a light halo around something that is showing up when you put a new background in, is use the burn tool around the edges of the selected object to just darken them a bit so they blend in better. (Or set the magnification up very high and go around and erase all those pesky pixels that aren’t wanted with a very small eraser- but that can take rather a long time for something as fiddly as tree branches!)
I agree that it needs a little more unsharp mask – did you use a tripod for the original ?- that can make alot of difference to the sharpness.

Susan S.
CS
Chuck_Snyder
Feb 28, 2004
James, what radius value works for you in your High Pass filter sharpening technique?

Chuck
CS
Chuck_Snyder
Feb 28, 2004
James, a second question re high pass sharpening: would it make sense to remove the color from the high pass filter layer? I know that’s done with the contrast mask technique; not sure what it’s impact would be on your results.
J
jhjl1
Feb 28, 2004
I usually use the default of 10 and lessen the effect with the opacity. You can also try with soft light as well as the previously mentioned hard light.


Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview
http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/
wrote in message
James, what radius value works for you in your High Pass filter
sharpening
technique?

Chuck

J
jhjl1
Feb 28, 2004
I’m not sure Chuck as I have never tried that way. Will play with it later and see.


Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview
http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/
wrote in message
James, a second question re high pass sharpening: would it make sense
to
remove the color from the high pass filter layer? I know that’s done
with
the contrast mask technique; not sure what it’s impact would be on
your
results.

CS
Chuck_Snyder
Feb 28, 2004
Thanks, James. Just tried it on an image (with the 10 radius default) and I like the effect!
J
jhjl1
Feb 28, 2004
I think you can sometimes get away with more sharpening with less added sharpening artifacts. It was recommended to me to use with images that are already noisy or scenes with water and sky that is highly susceptible to sharpening artifacts.


Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview
http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/
wrote in message
Thanks, James. Just tried it on an image (with the 10 radius default)
and I
like the effect!

CS
Chuck_Snyder
Feb 29, 2004
That’s good advice. Unsharp mask is not very selective to say the least.
J
jhjl1
Feb 29, 2004
Yesterday someone told me about a filter that does the same thing. You can download the demo pack which has five freebies and a few demos. After downloading open the Convolution Shaman Filter and there is a High Pass setting that does it all with one click. Convolution Shaman is one of the five freebies. Give it a try I think you will like it.

http://photoshop.msk.ru/as/index.html

Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview
http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/
wrote in message
That’s good advice. Unsharp mask is not very selective to say the
least.
TF
Terri_Foster
Feb 29, 2004
Those are some of my favorite filters too. The toadies are also over there as freeware. They include some real nice metal effects like Metallic Onion.

Terri
RF
Robert_F_Carruth
Feb 29, 2004
Bob, John, John, James, Susan and Chuck,

I’m not ignoring my own questions. We are finally getting some nicer weather here so the day was filled with outside chores. Even got the Christmas lights put away.

Many have used the forum to ask where they can learn. The answer is right here.

Now I have to learn to use a lot more tools but at least I know which ones for this project.

As usual another question. By the way I have PE1 if it makes a difference. How do I get get the various filter parameters back to default? I’ve experimented and have no idea what their default should be. I suppose deleting preferences will get me back to defaults?

About the boat: I guess I’m too much of a realist and too familiar with the subject. I’ve spent at least a hundred hours in that exact place over 30 years. Lobster boats are small and any closer to shore they’d hit underwater ledges. I think I’ll just replace it with a nice 40′ Hinkley yawl under full sail (if I can find the right shot).

Many thanks for the good advice.

Bob
ML
Marty_Landolt
Feb 29, 2004
Bob C, Well, that was ‘interesting’! I didn’t find your picture but had a good time. Marty
SR
Schraven_Robert
Feb 29, 2004
Marty,

It is not on the first page but I believe on the third and then some where in the middle of that page. Keep looking for rockbound coast.
Luckily the pages build up fast.

Robert
B
BobHill
Feb 29, 2004
Bob,

To get your original tool defaults, delete prefs file. At the moment after you click the shortcut to start Elements, but before the splash screen pops up, press Control (Command on MAC) + Alt (option on Mac) + Shift. A box will pop up asking if you want to delete prefs.

The timing can take a bit of practice, but it is quicker than searching you system folder. This is often the first thing you should do if Elements does erratic things or you want to get back to defaults.

Bob
RF
Robert_F_Carruth
Mar 1, 2004
Sorry about the wandering picture. Should have posted a direct link but it was so long I didn’t think it would work. Now I can’t even find it. Time to build that personal web page at AT&T.

Thanks again for all the good info.

Bob

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