Sorry Allen. If I were sure of the MacIntels I would have waited. But I need something that I can be sure will perform for me optimally with my current workload.
Haven’t had time to set it up yet. Not even opened the box. About 20 minutes ago I discovered that I may have been ripped off though. They sold me a setup that is no longer on display. It is the premium setup for video. I had not researched this in advance. I had a 10% coupon with Apple so I thought I might at least come close to my NAPP discount with PC Mall. Looks like I was wrong. I paid through the nose. Now I’m stressed… lol! Nothing has been opened so I may take it all back and order through PC Mall. Oy! 8)
I would have waited at least until the new machines were released and see if the G5 prices were dropped. that’s only 3 more weeks. did you buy an Apple 20 inch as a pallet monitor? I got the cheapest generic 19 inch I could buy $200 and spent the money I saved on a calibrator.
Hi Buko. From what I’ve been hearing, the Quads will be gone before the prices drop. Maybe that’s not correct. I did choose to buy the Apple 20" because I need to use it with my G4 DP for a while.
Because I’m keeping so busy I don’t have as much time as I used to when I’d make a purchase. I have been getting nervous thinking that I might wait too long and not be able to get a Quad.
I think I’m going to order a Raptor 150GB by Western Digital as my primary drive (thanks TC) with OS and software installed. Then keep the backup OS on the 500 GB along with my client job files. I have a 300GB external LaCie for backing up info and storing photos, but will be needing another one before long. I’m getting away from burning CDs and DVDs. Several of them have been going bad. Not the older ones, but the newer ones. No point in wasting money on them for backups. I’ll just use them for clients.
I wouldn’t touch a Western Digital with a 20 foot pole. and why such a small drive? I have a 160 and a 500 and now wish I’d got 2 500s. Get the biggest drive you can you won’t be sorry.
Buko, It seems to be a little secret that Apple knows about as well. I got the impression from talking to one of the people at Apple that many users are buying these for speed.
The way mass storage needs grow (especially for those of us involved with images), buying relatively small hard drives IMO does not make sense. Certainly in a 2-drive limited tower I would get nothing less than 2×500. And for externals I suggest RAID 0 or RAID 0+1.
I use JBOD (just a box of drives) enclosures for my archive storage. The enclosures can hold up to eight drives which can be hot-swappable in removable sleds. Not being a systems geek, I can’t offer my own opinion on the relative merits of JBOD vs. RAID, but the systems geeks who advise me say that JBOD is the way to go if you’re primary concern is image storage (as opposed to video editing). They tell me that if a single drive goes bad in a JBOD box, you just replace it – no problem (assuming you’re using good back-up practices). If a drive goes bad in a RAID, it can take down the whole box.
Just a thought for a sunny day.
BTW, I’m waiting for the MacIntel towers to come out before I upgrade.
Still haven’t had time to open the Quad yet. Spent today working with a client. Maybe tomorrow.
The way mass storage needs grow (especially for those of us involved with images), buying relatively small hard drives IMO does not make sense. Certainly in a 2-drive limited tower I would get nothing less than 2×500. And for externals I suggest RAID 0 or RAID 0+1.
Thanks Allen. I probably will buy a larger drive.
I use JBOD (just a box of drives) enclosures for my archive storage. The enclosures can hold up to eight drives which can be hot-swappable in removable sleds. Not being a systems geek, I can’t offer my own opinion on the relative merits of JBOD vs. RAID, but the systems geeks who advise me say that JBOD is the way to go if you’re primary concern is image storage (as opposed to video editing). They tell me that if a single drive goes bad in a JBOD box, you just replace it – no problem (assuming you’re using good back-up practices). If a drive goes bad in a RAID, it can take down the whole box.
This is all new to me. It sounds interesting and I will look in the JBOD.
BTW, I’m waiting for the MacIntel towers to come out before I upgrade.
Cool. Please report back when you do. I eventually will upgrade to the MacIntel, but for now I’m enjoying my comfort zone.
Thanks Steve. I’ll keep you posted, if and when I ever get her set up. I’m not sure if my client will need me back again tomorrow. If not I’ll try to get started on setting up, while working at the same time.
JBOD is the way to go if you’re primary concern is image storage (as opposed to video editing). They tell me that if a single drive goes bad in a JBOD box, you just replace it – no problem (assuming you’re using good back-up practices). If a drive goes bad in a RAID, it can take down the whole box.
The above IMO is not a good overall characterization of RAID vs. independent drives. RAID has many choices. E.g. RAID 0 gains speed using multiple drives; RAID 0+1 gains speed and also provides real time redundancy; RAID 1 provides redundant mirror backup, etc. on up to RAID 5. The statement "If a drive goes bad in a RAID, it can take down the whole box." only applies to certain specific RAID configurations.
Note also the statement
if a single drive goes bad in a JBOD box, you just replace it – no problem (assuming you’re using good back-up practices)
includes the phrase "assuming you’re using good back-up practices." Many RAID choices actually facilitate good back-up practices, while a bunch of independent drives IMO may tend to lead one in the direction of less good back-up practices.
I would also suggest that for active editing of batches of DSLR-captured images our needs are more like video editing than they are like archival image storage. As such hard drive i/o throughput is very, very important; which often means RAID.
This is all good. I need this education. It is much appreciated. I will probably give it a little time before investing in too many more drives so that I feel I have a good understanding of where I need to go with backup methods and equipment. I’m also reading a book on Digital Archive Management called The DAM Book.
Allen – I appreciate your thoughts on storage strategies. As I said, I’m not an expert; I take my guidance from a couple folks I consider to be experts. One of my main sources is The DAM Book by Peter Krogh – a guy who has thought this stuff through very carefully.
Linda – I’m glad to see you’re reading Peter’s book. Essential reading for anyone dealing with a professional digital environment. I’ve taken a couple of DAM workshops with Peter as well as having read his book. He travels around the country doing these workshops through local ASMP chapters. I highly recommend attending if he’s in your area.
Good luck with the Quad. Let us know how the set-up goes. And thanks for the comments on the website.
Thanks Rick. I met Peter in Miami this year at Photoshop World and had him sign my book. I don’t believe I made it to his class. I’ll try to make it a priority in the future.
I have so much past rearchiving to do at this point that I almost think I will need to start with current work and save the past work when when I have my setup working smoothly and have a little more time. Either that or I’ll hire someone to come in and help me with it down the road.
I have so much past rearchiving to do at this point that I almost think I will need to start with current work and save the past work when when I have my setup working smoothly and have a little more time.
Linda – That’s exactly the right approach. Get your system going with new work, get comfortable using the system as you feed new work into it, then go back and start archiving the old work. In fact, it’s a good idea to work the kinks out of your system using a set of test files before you start archiving real work.
I did it. I set up the Quad today. What’s really cool is how it asked me if I wanted my files and applications transferred. It’s doing all the work for me. Those Apple people really know how to do it right. I was feeling a little sentimental as I disconnected my six year old Studio Display and moved it out of my office. She has served me well for the past six years and still calibtrates pretty well. But am I thrilled with the new Cinema’s! Wow! I have so much more space on my desks.
geeks who advise me say that JBOD is the way to go if you’re primary concern is image storage (as opposed to video editing)
IMO such advice is based on the false premise of "image storage (as opposed to video editing)." That premise may still be true for folks like Ann and Wade with their film workflows. That premise is not true for pro photogs performing modern DSLR image capture.
Modern DSLR capture workflows have hardware needs more akin to video than to what still image management experts had in their minds and recommendations in the past. The hardware needs of modern DSLR capture are still evolving, but clearly the closest similarity is to video.
E.g. two years ago (when Peter Krogh was writing his book, for instance) conventional wisdom was that video cards had minimal effect on our Photoshop world ("just simple blitting") but today the world of DSLR capture photogs is very different. Building new systems for 2006-07-08-09-10 we must be prepared for programs that demand video-like graphics horsepower. For instance Linda’s Quad – otherwise the most powerful Mac available today – would be too weak to run Aperture well if she had not had the foresight to prepurchase upgrade the video card.
Note that I am not damning JBOD, especially for archival purposes. I am, however, suggesting that DSLR capture folks not build 2006-07-08-09-10 boxes based on 2004 workflow realities.
I’m glad you all are having this discussion. It is educational to me. I need to read up on some of it myself so I understand better. I don’t really know what RAID is or does, other than the kind that makes bugs scream and run.
Buko, I cannot tell you how happy I am to get that huge monitor off my desk. As much as I appreciate all the years of service it gave me, I have no plans to use it in my office. I might hook it up to an old G4 500 if my husband wants it though.
Question: What color is the background behind the topic area of this web page showing up as? Is it supposed to be grey or a very pale green? I just calibrated my new monitors and its looking like a faded green. I think it is supposed to be grey?
Linda for some reason I was thinking it was an old LCD not CRT
Oh… no, it’s a big, heavy CRT. Thanks about the EyeOne 2 info. Originally I was going to order that one because Apple sells it, but then I read an article somewhere recommending the Spyder. Now I can’t remember the article or find it.
Given that you are in Florida, may I suggest: To avoid overheating issues with a beast computer like that it is a good idea to make sure that your location does not exceed the G5’s specified maximum operating conditions of
Operating temperature: 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C) Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing
If ambient temps ever approach those design maximums you might consider blowing a window-type fan directly on to The Beast.
Note that ambient in this case means the temps at the computer. Such temps can sometimes far exceed overall room ambient temps, especially in the kinds of locations we often place tower computers. Even in otherwise cool locales tower locations may exceed design criteria.
Allen – The JBOD vs. RAID debate is one that I watch from the sidelines. I currently use a JBOD based on Peter’s current recommendation. As needs change, I’m sure I will too.
The JBOD vs. RAID debate is one that I watch from the sidelines.
I don’t see a JBOD vs. RAID debate at all, just different approaches within a workflow, based on need. Personally I use both in my menagerie of hard drives. RAID for editing speed and independent disks for local archiving.
If ambient temps ever approach those design maximums you might consider blowing a window-type fan directly on to The Beast.
Good to know this Allen. I decided to place the Quad on the desk instead of in the cubby hole designed for CPUs. Where it sits, the AC blows downward, but not directly on to it. After running it most of the day it never even felt warm to the touch. I was amazed, especially since my G4 DP gives off so much heat I often lower the thermostat to compensate.
Wait, Linda! Don’t upgrade just yet…(oops, too late.) LOL
Hi Welles. 😉
Honestly, I feel very good about my purchase. It is fast enough to carry me through a good three years or more. I am more concerned at this time about not having to deal with potential problems than anything else. I thought about this a lot (as you can see by this thread), went back and forth, and sought advice. I made a decision, and now that I have (right or wrong) I’m not going to spend energy wondering if I did the right thing.
I am thrilled that my apps and user settings all transferred over automatically with so much ease today. Now I just need to copy my client files and I’m ready to start working on the new setup tomorrow. How cool is that!
Drats Mike! I hear what you’re saying. I just hope that if I do have a problem Apple will take care of it. I bought Apple Care so I’m covered for the next three years.
I concur with Mike that Applecare is a very poor purchase value. An expensive process that just assuages illogical fears. But if it works for you, feel free to pay Apple, similar to buying Apple brand RAM. Except that the Apple RAM rip is alleged to change in the future, while the extraordinary Apple markup on AppleCare is not expected to abate.
Regarding upcoming hardware I say so what? Any given setup has pros and cons; things you live with, fix with upgrades, or buy the next generation. Once one makes a purchase decision, just live with it! Second guessing is a waste of time and energy.
Hi Steve. I am very pleased. The best part is that I was able to set up the Quad in a very short amount of time and get back to work. During setup, it asked if I wanted to copy applications, users folder, and files, etc. and I clicked YES to apps and user folder. This meant I did not have to reinstall any software. It went so smoothly. I needed this to be uneventful because of my work load. That’s one reason I stayed with the Quad. I no longer have time for pioneering and possible trouble shooting. I also wanted the fastest setup I could get without waiting for all the software upgrades. I know there are some who are upset with me over this purchase and you might be right. But I did what I thought was best for this time in my life and business. My husband also thinks I did the right thing.
I’m glad you posted because it jarred my memory to say thank you to all who participated in this thread. You all really are a great support.
Thank you all so very much!!! Once again!!!
I think we’ve done this a few times over the years. 😉
Anyway you look at it, the Mactel towers are a pig in a poke.
Yup, we have not seen one yet, nor can we buy one. Some research gives us reasonable expectations, however. And we will see the real thing soon enough. Less than a mointh now.
And thanks Ramon. I will continue to follow this thread as I have a feeling it might continue on as the MacIntel towers are unveiled. I truly hope the new towers are all that they should be. If all goes well I might be looking to upgrade again in a couple of years.
Mike, I admit that your concerns are the ones that have me a little on edge. However, my experiene with Apple tells me that should I reach the point to where I have hardware issues, if they no longer make the parts, or the parts themselves are defective, I should hope that Apple would replace my unit with whatever is available at the time. This to me has always been just one more reason (among many) to buy Apple.
Partly, I’m teasing you. The other part – I’m very serious about having issues with the quads. We STILL have one quad that Apple can’t figure out what’s wrong with it. A new mother board, new hard drive, etc… I’m starting to think that there may be some kind of software problem with the units. Our other two quads – once in a while just crap out and die. Sometimes a software reinstall brings them back. Sometimes they just stay dead. All three of our quads have had hardware replacement parts put in them. So much so that I forget what they have done to what box.
All I’m saying is that – at this point, I’ve lost faith in Apple to some extent that was never a question in the past.
Maybe we just have a bad lot of computers – don’t know, but still, Apple should stand in front of their product – not behind it and give us new boxes. They don’t. So, they suck right now in my book.
btw: A shop that has over 100,000.00 vested in macs…
All I’m saying is that – at this point, I’ve lost faith in Apple to some extent that was never a question in the past.
I lost faith in Apple a couple of years ago.
I have a client that bought a second generation Dual G5. The thing kernel panicked and crashed from the get-go. Apple blamed RAM, software, sun spots and the phase of the moon.
They had me replace the video card, the RAM & the hard drive and clean install the OS numerous times. Nothing made a difference. I spent many hours on the phone with them and many hours dealing with the thing.
They approved for us to take it to an Apple authorized service shop – who kept it for over a month. They said it didn’t crash even once. I don’t think they turned it on even once.
It crashed within 30 minutes of returning it to it’s home office.
I then took the computer to my office, did a Zero Data format of the drive and reinstalled the OS. It started crashing right away, without any additional software installed whatsoever.
This led to my client blowing his top with Apple, which is what it took for them to finally agree to replace the computer, after 10 months of pure agony with the lemon.
Apple needs to have an easier means of replacing obvious lemons. I dread calling Apple for tech support. I dread buying a new Mac, because if it’s a lemon, I’m in for a ride.
I have more stories like this to tell if you like! : )
When it comes to support, I wonder if it makes a difference where the Mac is purchased. This is the first time I’ve actually purchased from Apple. So far my Quad seems to be doing what it’s supposed to do and I’m happy with it.
As for speed, I work with fairly large files. One beef so far, which was addressed before I took the plunge, and sure enough is still an issue. I wish there was a way to speed up "saving" time.
All I’m saying is that – at this point, I’ve lost faith in Apple to some extent that was never a question in the past.
E-gad, all I read on these forums is customer support horror stories. This gives me the impression that Apple is some monster company cheating it’s customers.
My experience has always been positive. I have a G4 iBook, which I purchased from my local CompUSA with an extended warranty. About a month after the original factory warranty expired, it started acting up (to be honest, I don’t recall the symptoms). OK, I had to run the full tech support gauntlet: un-install extra RAM, clean system install, reformat HD. Then they sent me a box, which I used to ship the computer to repair. Three days later the computer was returned with a new mother board. I repeated the ordeal about six months later, so I’m waiting for the thing to die again.
When I send it back a third time, they’ll replace it with a MacBook, or so I’m told. We shall see.
My point is that I have only praise for Apple support. Maybe it’s the way you behave on the phone. I’m always polite and patient. But, 10 months does seem rather extreme. Didn’t you insist on a replacement?
When it comes to support, I wonder if it makes a difference where the Mac is purchased. This is the first time I’ve actually purchased from Apple. So far my Quad seems to be doing what it’s supposed to do and I’m happy with it.
I’ve only ever bought refurbished from Apple. My theory is the refurbished machines have already gone through the extra QC that may be lacking on the "new" line. I’ve never had a bad machine from Apple purchasing refurbished equipment.
After reading some of the issues mentioned in this thread I took it upon myself to call Apple and discuss this with them. I spoke with Deborah, who was very nice and listened as I tried to explain what others are saying about Apple’s support. She assured me that Apple still does indeed replace units when necessary, but it is based on a case by case basis. I gave Deborah the link to this thread and asked that she take a look at what some are saying about the Quads as well as Apple’s support. She said she will check out this thread, and I believe she will. I know I’m nobody special but I hope that the phone call might prove to be helpful.
Count me in on the refurbished opinion. I’ve not bought all refurbished but about 50% of my Mac gear is refurbished. Just because it was available in what I needed at the time.
Here’s the truth no matter what computer brand or platform you buy it will give you problems as sure as the day is long.
No matter what that problem is it will be a pain in the neck to get it fix and it will disrupt your entire life.
If your spouse or children become critically ill and your computer goes down at the same time you have to take care of your computer first. And if you call tech support and tell them about your circumstances they are going to tell you to calm down or they will have to hang up. Or call back after your spouse or children die.
Linda a replacement is a refurbished Quad and nothing else.
And for your information G5 Quads are the first of their kind and therefore the same as a MacIntel as they are also the first of their kind and one should expect problems from a new type of configuration.
However the part about this is that even before they introduced the Quad they stopped developing it as they already went on to developing the MacIntel. The first one and they one you bought are the same also keep in mind everyone IBM makes the chip for G5 including the the Quad. Keep this in mind their hard drives have a treble reputation and they sold that division for a reason. keep this in mind their relationship with Apple soured before they even made the Quad and from what Steve Jobs said was his reason to go to Intel was that IBM told Apple we don’t care we have other plans here are your processors and don’t bother us if working two chips on the same mother board causes problems.
In other words you have a box that is a work in progress and perhaps it will work out. the Quads are faster especially when saving files.
I would run Disk Warrior if I were you.
There are people here on the Forum who will swear they never had a problem with their computers and they did this or that and their computer is rock solid and has been that way from day one. I would not believe that for one second no matter how nice a person they are, because it simply isn’t true.
Maybe you got lucky and maybe the only problem you have is the time it takes to save your G4 cannot possible be nearly as fast as your Quad when it comes to saving a file. No matter how large your files are and I can’t imagine for your purposes that your files are very large. Large files today for your information start out at about 250-500MB without any layers and some folk start out 1 or 2 GB.
Ramón, I think the processor is undervalued in saving speed to many people.
One example is that I have equipped many G4s, single and dual, with 7200 RPM SATA drives. Repair Permissions runs much much faster on a G5 than on a G4.
Repair Permissions, I expect, is equivalent to file saving in CPU usage. Maybe the Repair Permissions does tax the CPU a bit harder, but not that much.
Just fire up Activity Monitor and take a look-see.
When upgrading becomes necessary one of the reasons that I advocate buying the latest generation is that IMO for graphics usage computer competence is largely about throughput. On an ongoing long term basis throughput is not dependent upon any specific component (like GPU, CPU, drive speed, memory speed, etc.) but rather is dependent upon how the OS version, the apps versions, peripherals and files interact within the overall conglomeration of components.
At any given time and for any given usage there will always be certain parts of any system that comprise the bottleneck du jour. However we can easily forecast that as we evolve to OS 10.5 Leopard, Aperture, Adobe CS3 and other modern graphics apps over the next few quarters the throughput of MacIntel boxes will very substantially outperform the throughput of G4/5 boxes.
The Quad DOES save faster cuz the through put is faster.
That no doubt is the case for some apps in July 2006 due to the use of app, OS and peripherals versions optimized for the G5 towers. And of course the fact that in July 2006 the comparison is being made of last generation G5 towers against first generation MacIntel laptops. Tower performance has always been significantly superior to laptops. Two weeks from now when we can compare MacIntel towers versus G5 towers we are likely to see different comparative results, and a year from now (or sooner, depending upon how quickly OS 10.5 becomes mainstream) I doubt if there will be any major app not performing better in every regard on MacIntels.
Carbon Copy Cloner still works great and is running under Rosetta for Mac Intel machines with a universal binary due soon. Of course Linda can simply use the latest Tiger version 2.3.
Cool. Thanks for your comments. My next move is to buy another internal hard drive. I think I’d like to place it in the first slot, then in my spare time reformat the new drive, add all the software by hand, etc. Then eventually use one of these apps to clone it over when I’m ready to reformat the original drive.
Maybe you’re right Buko. Normally when I get a new computer I like to zero out the hard drivel, partition it, and then install everything fresh. This time I simply allowed it to automatically copy all apps to the new box and did no partitioning. I guess I feel like I have a new box with old stuff inside.
Linda you have a fresh system that you installed right?
The beauty of tiger is the ability to bring your apps, files, and settings over from your old computer. If something is goofy reinstall it.
But if you have lots of free time and have nothing better to do than install everything again, then reenter all your settings and passwords it will only take the better part of the day.
Buko, I have the system that came inside the Quad. I guess you’re right.
I did wonder also about the applications that I brought over though. I wondered if the older apps overwrote the newer ones that came installed in the Quad.
I have my G4 set up to the left of me now. I can actually work on two jobs at one time. I love this!
Why don’t you wait for the release of Leopard and then do a complete system rebuild?I have to admit that I like doing a complete build up, reinstalling all my software and pruning the dead ends, as each major OS upgrade is released.
Another vote for SuperDuper. I’ve used it for 2 years, since CCC development started to lag.
When I get a new computer I always reinstall the system. I don’t bother writing to zeros first because there is nothing on the drive I just do an Erase and Install.
Believe it or not, I’m excited about it all too. I’m happy with my Quad, but still excited to watch what happens with the Intel boxes this year. I’ll also be interested in following along to see who gets what and what you all have to say about them. Then I suspect that down the road I’ll be coming back asking your advice again. 😉
I haven’t had time to test the speed. I’m meeting one deadline after another. I think things might slow down after Wednesday this week so at that point I will try to do some comparrison tests between the Quad and my G4 1Ghz DP.
The smart money says that the processors of the MacBook Pro will be swapped for the newer Merom (Core 2 Duo) processors. That should take care of the heat issues reported rather widely with the first iteration of the MacBooks. I’ve been advising several tech support clients to wait…
The MBPs will be upgraded to (already shipping from Intel) Merom chips no later than September, possibly as soon as August 7. At that time prices on the (excellent) existing 17" MBPs will fall a bit. Personally I am waiting, since Merom specs portend spectacular laptop performance.
processors of the MacBook Pro will be swapped for the newer Merom (Core 2 Duo) processors. That should take care of the heat issues reported rather widely with the first iteration of the MacBooks.
Merom chips in MBPs are virtually a sure thing. And Merom chips have improved (25%?) performance per watt over Yonah chips. However, I would not necessarily plan on suddenly having substantially lowered internal temperatures on the top end MBPs unless a magic new box design emerges.
All high end laptops since the G3s have been relatively hot (G3s the worst IIRC) because IMO the engineers logically cram in as much power (ergo heat) as the system will tolerate. With Meroms IMO they will just get that much more power in before hitting a similar internal temperature limitation.
The next 6 months will be a really exciting time in laptop design. At the high end we will have the first really competent Photoshop boxes, perhaps more RAM and (please!) even with dual hard drives to add capacity and allow righteous scratch disk operation. Great graphics for Aperture and the other pro Apple graphics apps are a sure thing, especially since Apple finally seems to be going after gamers as well.
Pretty much nothing has been said about the lower end, but IMO lots of cool things can happen there too. Merom and Yonah chips in the less powerful implementations will be cooler and cost Apple less, allowing smaller creative notebook solutions. MacBooks are selling like hotcakes and Apple is no doubt hesitant to cannibalize MB sales with lower end laptop boxes (perhaps iBooks) just yet, bit my guess is it will happen this year. And we should see a replacement for the popular 12 inch Powerbook (MBs are not it): maybe a 13" widescreen MBP, or the rumored "MacBook Thin" or both. A MacBook Thin would be a great candidate for one of Steve’s "One More Thing" presentation climaxes.
The consensus among all my digital shooting colleagues is that Seagates are the most reliable. I’ve got 13 Seagate Barracuda drives (4 each in two 4-drive JBOD’s, 4 more in single Firewire enclosures for on-the-road, 1 more as the second internal drive.)
Thanks Buko. I’m glad you said that… and I’ll take a serious look at the Barracuda. I am very pleased with the three Seagate Barracuda drives inside my G4DP. They are still going strong.
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 750GB SATA Hard Drive The first Perpendicular Recording hard drive that increases data density while decreasing moving parts for a more dependable drive. Mfg. Part #ST3750640AS
I’m starting a new venture or I would have one of those 750 gig Barracudas already. Seagate bought out Maxtor a while back. I have nothing against Maxtor I have a 3 of them my G4. the only after market drives I’ve bought are Seagate and Maxtor.
The Hitachi drive you have is pretty fast, if you need capacity, go for another one, or a Seagate 750GB. Raptors have a small capacity for today’s standards, and the G5 can only hold 2 drives without modification…
I ordered from PC/Mac Mall with my NAPP discount. The discount isn’t that great, but I have established a long term relationship with Kristine over the years and she is always very helpful. Also, I know that if I have a problem she willl take care of it.
Since I purchased the d2 I’ve been using SilverKeeper to do daily backups on my client jobs folder. It seems to work well.
Did we discuss reformatting the new external drives? I assume using Apple’s Disk Utility is the best way. I also plan to install a backup of the OS and apps.
Just wanted to say how much I appreciate this thread and all offering help, and you Linda for brining it up. Im in a very similar boat to Linda and not only has this thread discussed MacIntel vs.Quad, but also many other things Ive enjoyed learning about — from backing up, to HDs and disks, even to calibration.
So please keep this thread going, Im interested to hear your thoughts when the MacIntel Towers come out. Im much less knowledgeable than you all, and have frequently turned to Adobe Forums for help over the past few years. But this is my very first post to the forums.
Im an illustrator, not a photographer, but sounds like the general digital usage is similar. Presently am limping along on a Dual G4 533. (Id love to even have your 1ghz dual G4, Linda!) I regularly use almost all of CS2, and work in 200-300meg files in PS every day. Its been bearable so far, but I regularly endure the app crashes.
For the record, I use CCC onto a D2 500Gig FW drive. I noticed SuperDrive, but CCC is still working for me.
I can agree in that IBM drives are bad news: Ive had two internals on this machine die on me. Thats probably partly due to the fact that I used the both same main HD as a scratch disk for years before clueing in to use my other internal120gig drive to no longer backup, but as a primary scratch disk instead. I probably just prematurely fried them both doing that.
Although Im considering following Lindas move to get a Quad, I prefer to get a MacTel late this year or next after CS3 debuts. I agree that the new architecture is the future, and I need a Mac for another 4-5 years probably. Like Linda, I also dont want to be a guinea pig, I just dont have the time, much less the patience to deal with incessant troubleshooting.
I have 3 Qs if you have time (if this is the wrong place to post, please just say so, I dont want to hijack, but I trust you all):
1) I bought Tiger months ago, (but like Linda am totally slammed with many deadlines) and have yet to install it. Will I probably notice an even greater slow down? Some CS2 apps recommend it. I presently run Jaguar.
2) I usually research before asking (I know next to nothing about Rosetta…yet), but if I get a MacTel, will I encounter even slower performance than my (now) weakling G4 dual 533 on non UB apps like Office 04, etc? Font Agent Pro? Etc? Or will my G4 still prove to be slower despite Rosetta?
3) I have a very complex setup presently an old SCSI scanner, gobs of USB peripherals (like most people), and lots of misc programs like Palm apps and Conduits to Suitcase to old Spyder calibration software. If these apps work in Tiger (or Leopard) will they pretty much work on a MacTel too?
Again, sorry if the wrong place to ask. But at least 2 of these Qs are very much related to the Quad vs MacTel quandry.
Sorry for the long post, but thanks for any suggestions/help.
Larry: I ordered the LaCie 250GB PORSCHE EXT FIREWIRE HD
JK: Hello and welcome to my thread. 😉 I appreciate your positive comments and am always happy to hear that others benefit as much as I do from these discussions. I feel for you with your current setup. I also give you credit for making it work this long. What amazes me is how Apple stands the test of time, just as your G4. My G4 is still a workhorse. Matter of fact it’s the same machine that Peter Krogh mentions in his book that he previously used and still recommends as a server. I probably won’t use it as a server but I will continue to use it for certain jobs. I have the Quad on the desk in front of me and the G4 on the desk to my left. I find that I can sometimes juggle two jobs at one time with this setup.
Thanks for your setup info regarding CCC and the d2 drive. I plan to do the same thing.
Keep us posted on what you decide to do, whether to go with a Quad or the Intel Mac. I hear that this month the Quads are supposed to drop in price.
As for your three questions, I trust you will get some good feedback here. I would say it’s past time for you to buy yourself a nice new setup. You deserve a break JK. 😉
Hello and welcome to my thread. 😉 I appreciate your positive comments and am always happy to hear that others benefit as much as I do from these discussions. I feel for you with your current setup.
Thanks so much for the kind welcome, Linda. And yeah, Id love a break from the incessant program crashing and eventual restarts. It could always be worse, of course, but it really does slow the workflow — I know you and others here understand. Hope youre enjoying the new speed demon! 😉
Thats great you can use your G4 simultaneously, too I might try that when I get a new one. Ill definitely use it as a backup machine at least, it’s always been good to me, like you said about Macs.
Also, please let me know if Im asking inappropriate Qs here I dont mean to hijack your thread, or to get off topic. Im basically a newbie. But in this case, every time you guys get off topic I learn even more. (Nice to not have to shop multiple threads for the same info, LOL). Thats partially what finally got me off the couch to post here.
JK: Thank you for being so courteous. Your comments and questions are not inappropriate at all. I totally welcome your interaction here.
Thanks, much appreciated.
Thats great you can use your G4 simultaneously, too I might try that when I get a new one.
Come to think of it, when I had a PC eons ago I used the PC as a backup machine, and had/have a switchbox so I can use the same monitor for it and my G4 simultaneously. I’d just flip the switch and the monitor displays/switches the other machine. So I’ll probably go back to that when I get a new tower, so I can keep my dual monitors.
I’ve had a dual monitor system for years now, (as someone suggested earlier with the "Pallette monitor" concept). It’s awesome, I now can’t live without it. Palletes on a cheap monitor and your work by itself on the "good" monitor. One reason why I’ll unfortunately wait a while longer before getting a gorgeous Cinema Display like you got.
But you might consider that for your situation too — switchboxes are relatively cheap, and I wonder if you can use a CRT (or Flat screen) and a Cinema Display as dual monitors. That’d rock. Talk about real estate!
(Hmm, I wonder if you could do a four monitor system since I’ve heard some video cards handle two monitors at once. LOL. Quads for a Quad. LOL.)
Linda – LaCie is right here just outside of Portland. LaCie doesn’t make disk drives, they buy drives and package them, add their software and market them. I called LaCie at 503-844 4500 and asked what they used inside the 250 GB Porsche drive and was told that they use either: Western DIgital, Maxtor, Seagate or Hitachi. Basically they probably use the lowest bidder. Having said all that I have purchased from them years ago without any problems.
Although Im considering following Lindas move to get a Quad, I prefer to get a MacTel late this year or next after CS3 debuts. I agree that the new architecture is the future, and I need a Mac for another 4-5 years probably. Like Linda, I also dont want to be a guinea pig, I just dont have the time, much less the patience to deal with incessant troubleshooting.
Certainly the MacBook Pros have not experienced "incessant troubleshooting." In fact they have been very civilized, even for apps running under Rosetta. I doubt if moving to a MacIntel tower will present significantly more implementation issues than moving to a Quad (we will have some reports by the end of this month). Also, the daily crashes you currently are experiencing are not normal operation, so whatever you do should improve your (computer’s :-)) stability as well as its speed.
1) I bought Tiger months ago, (but like Linda am totally slammed with many deadlines) and have yet to install it. Will I probably notice an even greater slow down? Some CS2 apps recommend it. I presently run Jaguar.
OS 10.4.6 should be an improvement. Check the threads regarding 10.4.7 because I have not yet installed it.
2) I usually research before asking (I know next to nothing about Rosetta…yet), but if I get a MacTel, will I encounter even slower performance than my (now) weakling G4 dual 533 on non UB apps like Office 04, etc? Font Agent Pro? Etc? Or will my G4 still prove to be slower despite Rosetta?
We don’t have MacIntel towers yet but based on MacIntel laptops we can safely expect that most apps should be faster on any MacIntel tower than on your G4. Of course specific anomalies may exist, esp. font software that seems to always be problematic.
3) I have a very complex setup presently an old SCSI scanner, gobs of USB peripherals (like most people), and lots of misc programs like Palm apps and Conduits to Suitcase to old Spyder calibration software. If these apps work in Tiger (or Leopard) will they pretty much work on a MacTel too?
Probably a good time to weed out the old stuff. Certainly SCSI will not work without a SCSI card for the new box, but most USB stuff should work. For info on "misc programs" you will need to check each version with the respective vendors.
Thanks so much for the very thorough and helpful reply, Allen.
Probably a good time to weed out the old stuff. Certainly SCSI will not work without a SCSI card for the new box, but most USB stuff should work. For info on "misc programs" you will need to check each version with the respective vendors.
Okay, great, thanks. It sounds like transitioning to apps under Rosetta requires pretty much the same research on driver and app compatibility that Id do when moving to a new OS, minus considering certain hardware stuff (like SCSI cards).
I doubt I could just take the SCSI card from my G4 and just put in the PCI slot in my MacIntel, but worse case I guess I could always run the scanner from my G4 via network to my MacIntel. Id love the excuse to buy a new scanner, but few are 11x14in (legal) size anymore, and although Id love to have an 11×17 scanner, its an extra $1500 2500 expense. A lot to doll at once when upgrading in tower too. Cost of bidness, though, I guess.
Also, the daily crashes you currently are experiencing are b not normal operation, so whatever you do should improve your (computer’s :-)) stability as well as its speed.
LOL. Actually, it will improve my MENTAL stability too if my Mac is more stable! 🙂
Hmm. The crashes/slowness started when I went to CS1 & CS2. Ive always assumed my processors and RAM were finally just getting taxed beyond ability. Ive maxed out my RAM at 1.5GB. But perhaps theres more going on? (Is that what youre implying?).
I definitely dont have time to troubleshoot all that this month, due to so many deadlines. (Of course 1 day of troubleshooting might gain me much more time in the long run, but one never knows how long it will take, or if it will even work).
Im open to suggestions, but dont want to start on that road, honestly.
I admit that I did not know about regular maintenance until recently, like allowing the scripts to run at night, repairing permissions before and after installs, etc. I just started doing that in the past 4 months manually with Onyx. Ive been putting my Mac to sleep every night for years now (so no scripts run then). So maybe all thats the cause of the slowness and crashes (?). But then why did these materialize only when I upgraded to more powerful programs like CS1 & 2?
Its not like my Mac gives me major fits, (Ive only had 4 5 kernel panics in 3 years, which although not great, doesnt seem nuts either compared to OS9) It just seems to eventually run slow, especially in CS2 apps, the more programs (& files) I open and the more time/days go by since my last restart. When I restart, it helps significantly (despite the eventual crashes of Illustrator or PS, and others, when I have multiple files open or doing large tasks in them). But then, after restart, the process of course starts all over. It seems to be mostly CS2 apps for instance almost all my other programs like Entourage and even Safari dont die on me like the CS2 apps do, although Safari does occasionally crash, esp. when I have a lot of tabs/sites open in it. But Ive just assumed thats because I do much heavier CPU/RAM-taxing tasks in CS2.
(Again, if this specific G4 issue belongs in another/new thread, Ill start one..but I’d prefer not to if no big deal).
I plan to wipe my disk when I go to 10.4, but to save time Ill reformat, then CCC over my old files, then install 10.4, which of course might carry over bad, old, issues via CCC anyway. Which leads to the next issue…
OS 10.4.6 should be an improvement. Check the threads regarding 10.4.7 because I have not yet installed it.
Great! One Mac tech told me 10.4.x would be a speed improvement, but an Apple guy (at the local Apple store) told me 10.4.x would slow my G4 down even more. Ill check out the 10.4.7 threads when I finally am ready to go to 10.4 (thanks for the heads up).
We don’t have MacIntel towers yet but based on MacIntel laptops we can safely expect that most apps should be faster on any MacIntel tower than on your G4. Of course specific anomalies may exist, esp. font software that seems to always be problematic.
Great, thanks much. Are you saying running font software is not recommended on a MacIntel unless its UB? (I dont know if anyone has even developed that (UB) yet).
Regarding font software, do you all have a preference?
Of course I want something with auto activation for CS2 (& CS3) wherever possible.
I use Suitcase presently, and one guy told me it might be one reason why my G4 is so slow, he said to switch to Font Agent Pro (FAP), and I plan to buy it when I go to Tiger/10.4, but Ive also heard that Suitcase recently came out with its new version, which according to their site, seems to be pretty competitive with FAP.
Perhaps itd be better to wait to upgrade font software once it auto activates CS3?
(Btw, I appreciate the FAP tricks you guys discussed here months ago. I’ve saved them).
JK, before you buy Font Agent Pro you should try Linotrypes FontexplorerX. It does a nice job of organizing fonts, copies them into a database and autoactivates.
Its funny I didn’t like FAP as much, but then again I was looking for something that match Font Reserve before Extensis ruined it. I thought it was the best Font activator and database.
This suitcase fusion thing is nothing more than suitcase with a new name.
If you are not buying a new box in August the first thing to do is back up and then install 10.4.6 or 10.4.7. My DP G4 running 10.4.6 is quite stable running PSCS1 and PSCS2 but was (similar to yours) unstable with Jaguar. The only reason I have not loaded 10.4.7 yet is because 10.4.6 is so good.
Buko: Thanks, and yeah, I plan to trial FAP out, good idea.
FEX is ok but not as good as FAP.
Yeah, thats what Ive heard. Within very liberal boundaries, Im a believer in you get what you pay for — I figure a product for free, which, although good, is probably not as good as one Id pay for. I do a fair amount of design work, so good font management is VERY important to me. I have like 500-700 fonts.
What do you think of Smasher, also by Insider, a companion to FAP? (Also recommended to me). I guess its like Font Doctor. Worth it?
Alan:
This suitcase fusion thing is nothing more than suitcase with a new name.
Thanks, yeah, Ive heard of lots of complaints about Suitcase, including the new Fusion. Ive heard it runs much slower than the others, and is just generally flawed. I know Im not thrilled with my present Suitcase (v10 not X). Its old, but hey, Im also running Jaguar.
In fact, the same tech guy telling me to switch to FAP told me that the Insider guys actually created/programmed all or part of the first versions of Suitcase, then later realized the management was forcing a slower, weaker version than could be done, they argued, and finally left to start Insider and FAP. Something like that. Just a rumor though.
My DP G4 running 10.4.6 is quite stable running PSCS1 and PSCS2 but was (similar to yours) unstable with Jaguar.
Wow, thanks for saying that, too, Allen — maybe thats the crux of my prob. (Makes me want to install Tiger right now!)
So you had similar trouble (Jaguar instability)…. Have you noticed a speed increase too when running CS2 in Tiger? Just curious, you mentioned I probably would earlier. If not Im guessing thats due to a G4s age.
Please note that I can already run PSCS2 by itself without any Instability — its only when I try to do intense tasks in multiple CS2 programs that they start to flake/crash on me. If I have AI & PS running, usually AI will eventually crash, esp. if I have more than one file open.
If you were to guess, would you say thats still mostly an Jaguar/OS issue? Or an old G4 issue?
(i.e. Maybe I dont need a new box just yet after all).
I know I oughtta just stop asking about it and try Tiger and see for myself, but I cant help but ask.
Please note that I can already run PSCS2 by itself without any Instability — its only when I try to do intense tasks in multiple CS2 programs that they start to flake/crash on me. If I have AI & PS running, usually AI will eventually crash, esp. if I have more than one file open.
If you were to guess, would you say thats still mostly an Jaguar/OS issue? Or an old G4 issue?
Once you add in the multiple apps issue I cannot even guess, because each person’s work is different. Certainly the RAM limitation of our G4s is a serious problem for Suite use; however IMO upgrading your OS is necessary no matter what. The only reason not to would be
If you are buying a new box in August
in which case you would be getting the latest OS free with the new box.
Depending on how not-so-great the discount was, this might make you feel better or worse:
Fry’s has the Seagate 400GB SATA internal HD for $140, and a 500GB USB2/FireWire external for $250 (free shipping on this one).
Ramon, I probably could have done better. I ordered the 250GB LaCie Porsche for $126.97, the Internal Barracuda 750 GB for $389.44, and the portable LaCie Porsche USB 100GB for $135.50.
My chair also goes up and down. Also has an adjustable back and tilt to the seat, as well as the arms can go up and down. I agree though, the up and down adjustment is very important.
I keep trying different settings. Today I have been working while sitting up very straight. I removed the books from under the monitor as I am quite sure that did not help. I think my neck is better than it has been… I hope… no fun working with pain. I only remember one other time when I had neck pain. It was about 5 years ago and I worked for another company. This turned out to be related to my computer glasses. The antiglare film was going bad on them and without realizing it I was straining my neck to see better while I worked. That’s why I wondered if the new Apple Display could be at least part of the problem, because of the higher resolution, smaller text, etc.
JK,
Not sure what to suggest but I’ll share with you how I did mine. My office is set up to where the furniture wraps around from the door on the left all the way to the window on the right. When I was planning this I used Illustrator and created little boxes sized to match the furniture choices I had. I kept arranging them in the room different ways until I got the setup I liked. Then I purchased the pieces that matched my final setup. The furniture pretty much fits with just an inch or so left over on each end. There are three computer space desks and two extra pieces for storage. On the other wall of my office is four legal filing cabinets. There is a book shelf to the right of them and a space to the left where I keep all my photographic gear, and another tall thin book case for storage. The final wall has a second window and a TV, which I seldom watch, but comes in handy from time to time.
Your Study is going to be so gorgeous! Is this where your new computer will go?
Thanks so much Linda! and also for the compliments on my work. I’m hoping I can make the new office look real nice, it already is pretty sharp I feel too. Yeah, I’m going to put the new Mac Pro there, (when/if I ever get it next year) there, with hopefully two Cinemay displays. But just concerned about how I’ll make it work, since all my hubs, modem, router, large battery backup, cords, etc all will have to fit under those drawers with the claw feet. That big window is pretty too, but not conducive to monitor viewing, so that can hopefully be dealt with too.
In fact, my wife and I were just discussing during lunch that it might be best for me to just setup my office in the back room (not the study) and then slowly move into the study once the new Mac Pro is in there next year. I don’t want to wait that long, but may just have to. Things are nuts right now, and pretty soon the holidays, etc.
You’re office looks and sounds like a real nice setup too, Linda! In fact, it looks/sounds much more functional than my new one will end up being, LOL!
When I was planning this I used Illustrator and created little boxes sized to match the furniture choices I had. I kept arranging them in the room different ways until I got the setup I liked.
That’s a really clever way to do it. I think I’m going to do that for all the furniture positioning plans with my wife (using Illustrator)! Thanks! You know how ladies are about their home furniture positioning!
Funny the stuff we talk about on an Adobe Forum. Good times.
Funny the stuff we talk about on an Adobe Forum. Good times.
Indeed. 🙂
I am wondering if it is normal to have the spinning beach ball and then lengthy delay when you go to access the external hard drive after it sits idle for a while. I noticed this with my LaCie d2 300GB Drive. I also notice it, but not as severe, with one of the Porsche 250GB Drives. Anyone else have this happen?
Are you allowing your external FWD to go into sleep mode?
I prefer to keep my FWDs disconnected and turned off and only switch them on for backing-up.
I also wonder if you remembered to use Spotlight’s Privacy tab to disable indexing on external drives because allowing externals to index will REALLY slow you down.
Ann, You have taught me something new on two accounts. I trust this should be helpful. Thank you!
Are you allowing your external FWD to go into sleep mode?
I don’t know, but it seems that’s what they are doing. I just looked at the options in Engergy Saver. I assume that the option to "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep when possible" is the culpret. I’ve unchecked it. For some reason I thought that was related to the internal hard drive. If I disable this feature will both of my internal drive(s) still sleep?
I prefer to keep my FWDs disconnected and turned off and only switch them on for backing-up.
I normally keep mine turned on but lately have turned them off more to prevent the SBBs.
I also wonder if you remembered to use Spotlight’s Privacy tab to disable indexing on external drives because allowing externals to index will REALLY slow you down.
I didn’t know about this either. Matter of fact I did not really know what Spotlight was for and have not really used it. I normally use Command-F. Glad you told me about this. I have just added several drives and folders to the prevent list.
Ann, I am thrilled! No more SBBs with my external disks. I guess it was the sleep mode thing. Can’t believe I’ve had this going on for so long and never knew why. Thank you so much!
You ARE using it even though you don’t realise it (!) every time that you do a "Find" of any sort because Spotlight is the engine that drives ALL of the find/search functions in Tiger.
If you search using Cmd F, you get the Spotlight dialog and you can choose more options but I seldom need to use it.
Actually, I don’t even bother with Cmd F I just Cmd N (if I don’t have a Finder window open) and type a keyword in the Search box in the Header of the Finder window. I find it faster.
[If you are not seeing the Header, click the little white lozenge button in the top-right corner of any Finder window.]
The problem with Externals that are not kept permanently connected and active, is that Spotlight has to start re-indexing them from the beginning each time you re-connect them. The answer is to exclude them from Indexing (using the Spotlight/Privacy tab).
However, you do need to have all Externals connected and running while you set them to be "excluded" in the Privacy tab.
I’ll chime in on that! The wicked SBB is dead (or at least somewhat disabled)!
Actually, I don’t even bother with Cmd F I just Cmd N (if I don’t have a Finder window open) and type a keyword in the Search box in the Header of the Finder window. I find it faster.
Hm… I find that Command-F and Command-N bring up the same window.
I am already seeing a huge improvement in performance within the finder area as well as anything that triggers a response from the finder area. I am thrilled! Ann, you are one smart lady.
As far as Spotlight and externals go, I have both of mine indexed. I shut them off most of the time. When I turn them on it seems to me that indexing is very brief and only if there are changed files. Yes, I just turned them both on. Indexing lasted less than 10 seconds.
I have found it very useful having these hard drives indexed when it comes to searching through photos.
I like Spotlight a lot. I didnt think I would I make a lot of use of the little blue spotlight on the upper right hand corner of the screen.
I assume that the option to "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep when possible" is the culpret. I’ve unchecked it. For some reason I thought that was related to the internal hard drive. If I disable this feature will both of my internal drive(s) still sleep?
No. and neither will your externals. SBBD is the computer thinking. its not a bad thing unless it never stops. I see it just not for very long. I see it most when I get disconnected from the laptop and the computer is looking for it.
My Maxtor One Touch puts itself to sleep. I do not know how to disable that. My Seagate with enclosure on the other hand is controlled by my computer settings.
Observations on the sleep mode: Not sure, but it seems that my hard drives are still going to sleep. I disabled "Put the hard disk(s) to sleep…" but I have "Put the computer to sleep…" set at 30 minutes. I have beeen working on my computer all day so it has not gone to sleep, but the one external drive (2d) seems to have gone to sleep. When I double-clicked on it, I could hear it spin up and the SBB appeared. The SBB did not last very long this time though.
Good point, although I shut down at night most of the time. Old habits die hard I guess.
This brings up another point. Which utility is everyone using for Tiger? I still use MacJanitor, although it seems to not have been updated for a while.
Cocktail, OnyX, Tiger Cache Cleaner, for general purpose stuff. they all have subtle differences but generally are similar. If you don’t want to bother with running Cron scripts, repairing permissions, or eliminating useless language resources, use Macaroni, a Pref Pane which does those tasks automatically for you. I put it on every new Mac I set up for other people (and my own, of course).
Ann, For some reason I had trouble with Coctail in the past and went back to using MacJanitor, which I’ve been using up until today. Macaroni seems to get excellent reviews so I think it’s worth a try.
Read the reviews. I’ve used the three in the links above and my system performs better than ever after some hardware modifications (Maxed-out RAM, Bigger startup drive to gain more print spooling space) and much activity on my computer over the last year. I agree with 4 -5 stars. No problems and better performance beyond using Cocktail and leaving my machine on 24-7.
Again, thanks Ken. I downloaded FontNuke and Onyx. I ran FontNuke and made the mistake of checking Repair Permissions. It is going and going and going. I can’t get it to stop. My laptop is revved up and getting hot. I’ll try not checking Repair Permissions next time. For now I’ll force quit and reboot.
Update: I can’t force quit FontNuke. I might have to turn off the computer.
Latest update: I turned off the Powerbook, then turned it back on after waiting about 20 seconds. I ran the fsck -fy script for good measure, then rebooted. I then ran FontNuke again, this time without Permissions checked. Then I ran Permissions from my Disk Utility. All seems to be well.
Just stick with ONE of those utilities and my choice is to forget the "freebies"; pay the 15 bucks to buy Cocktail and be done with it!
Re your Fonts:
Are these the same villains who used to kill your G4?!!
Again, I would forget FontBook and buy FAP which, unlike FontBook, will search-out any bad fonts that you may have (and my guess is that you certainly do have some!) and quarantine them.
I am pretty sure I already paid for Cocktail last year. I just need to find my info.
I just tried out Onyx and it seems nice. It gets great reviews.
FontBook has never been a problem for me. I am hesitant to buy FAP because things keep changing. I purchased three different font programs in the past. At the time they were highly recommended. FontBook seems to work fine, well other than crashing from time to time when I activate some fonts. 😉 I keep most of my fonts disabled anyway since moving to OSX. If I need something ornate and unusual, I will activate it in Illustrator, create my titles, convert to outlines, then deactivate the font.
Mike, You probably have newer, quality, updated fonts where you work. I have a gazillion fonts, some of which are still left over from my old Corel collection. I just keep them one a separate drive and pull one out from time to time. The Adobe Fonts that came with CS2 are installed but I disable a lot of them as well.
So FAP definitely finds and fixes corrupt fonts, eh? I heard you can buy the FAP companion program called Smasher, which doctors fonts (even more?). It’s a Font Agent Pro product as well, obviously.
Anyone heard/tried Smasher, or is it not worth it?
I’m still stuck using old Suitcase vX. (YUCK!!)! I’ve heard great things about FAP and will switch to it once I install Tiger. I heard FAP auto activates CS2 apps, something I desperately want. I’m sick of Suitcase, but married to it so far. Ugh.
Suitcase X1 has never failed me, I don’t care what the majority says about it, I run garbage fonts I find on the interweb thingie and it never gives me a second of trouble.
Suitcase X1 has never failed me, I don’t care what the majority says about it, I run garbage fonts I find on the interweb thingie and it never gives me a second of trouble.
Well, good point. I actually use Suitase v10, not X1 (I’ve heard vX and v10 used interchangeably …. X1 doesn’t work on jaguar if I remember right) and I also use gobs of freebie fonts, without any hassles, ever. Maybe FAP is much more finicky, which would also annoy me.
However, I’m tired of how long it (Suitcase) takes to do anything (maybe it’s my slow G4) and how it does not auto activate anything I use. Plus there are lots of other little annoying foibles about it, (like not even any sort of font search function!)
I definitely need to have my fonts organized, so I find it a necessary tool, but just annoyed with it I guess.
I just looked at Smasher and frankly i don’t see the point.
Great info, thanks Ann.
Do you (or anyone) find FAP frequently rejects or lists as "corrupt" those freebie fonts off the web? You may not know, but can’t hurt to ask. I just wonder if it will cause me problems.
Most of the new Freebie fonts on the web are not corrupt (badly drawn and kerned perhaps but not corrupt) but FAP will find those that are.
Much more often the BAD fonts are very old ones from established Type houses.
Ones that come to mind are pre 1992 versions of Optima, Eras, and Franklin Gothic and you really need to replace those anyway (although I have had some success repairing such fonts in Fontographer).
You will find all the bad fonts neatly filed in folders called "Problem Fonts" within the FAP "database" Folder (that you setup on your HD) and it indicates what the problem is such as missing screen or outline fonts or just corruption.
The point is that activated corrupt fonts can completely mess-up your System, and will often prevent Photoshop from launching, so you don’t want to leave them lying around.
FAP gives a 30 day fully-operational free trial so the best thing is to try it out for yourself/
unlike Island boy Suitcase caused me nothing but grief so I never wasted my money on Suitcase 11. I went the FAP route. I’ve only run across 2 fonts FAP would not activate I just put those in the Adobe font folder until I was done with them.
Suitcase 10 had it’s moments (as did everything running on the beta know as OS X pre 10.2.8 ) but X1 has been faultless.
Well FAP was flawless even on the Beta 10.2.8 and Suitcase X1 causes so much grief for ID users I never felt I needed to waste the money to not use the product. I use ID as much as Photoshop and need my font manager to be compatible with both apps.
Suitcase was not bad, but out of respect for Ann and Buko, I switched to Font Agent Pro. It’s not perfect, but I’m not going to go into it’s frailties again as a FAP rep contacted me directly the last time I exposed a problem with the program on these forums and said if I had problems with the program they would help me directly. It was something to do with the movie-player feature to display fonts I found to be buggy. Not an important feature to me so I simply avoid using it now. None of these font management programs are anything to write home about IMHO. If Adobe were to seriously go after development and production of a first-rate font management program, I’m sure it would be flawless. Adobe has a lot of talented capable people and cannot afford to not generate hap-hazard software.
In fact, I can’t imagine why Adobe didn’t just pick up the ball and run with it after Adobe Type Manager was right to be modified for system X into what we all need today. That, just never happened.
Blame it on Apple’s Font Book which, ironically, ultimately failed to deliver on its promises remaining true to Apple’s traditional cluelessness in the handling of fonts instead.
Its good to hear I’m not the only dissatisfied with all the font managers currently available.
FR was the first 5 or 6 years ago?, to come out with Auto-activation and a database at the same time so I was stuck on it.
I worked at a service bureau/pre press place that had thousands of fonts. Font Reserve ability to give a font an ownership attribute when you copied the font into the database and then it signify the owernship of the font in a dialogue when you opened a file that used a font in which there were many of the same name in the database made it easy to never use the wrong font. E.g. if I opened a job with Helvetica the dialogue would list (I’m leaving out some info) Helvetica Spin Magazine Helvetica Vibe Magazine as well as font foundry, style, kern checksum (this was great). just about anything. The kern checksum was awesome. You might have a font that was identical in every way except a cllent may have altered one kern pair. Kern checksum would show this. I can’t think of anything the program was missing until Extensis glommed it.
I think the type manager companies could learn something (rather than being defensive) by reading these forums. We are a major market that wants better than what we are being offered so far. Maybe Ann and Buko are happy, I don’t know, but I’m not completely satisfied. The products we work with from Adobe are so far advanced that I think the font manager we use should be on par and IMHO they are not.
The others have had their chance, now, I want Adobe to come up with a Font Management program.
1. Make it intuitive and easy to work with, so you don’t have to be a scientist like Ann and Buko before you can use it.
2. Make it logical, no mysterious "I’m going to hide fonts behind the magic curtain now" BS.
3. Make it graphically interesting and solid, no more than three screens like a. Here’s what’s active b. Here’s what’s not, but you can add if you want, and c. Here’s the score: see your system’s required fonts, as opposed to your independent fonts.
Maybe alan ruta would care to add a brief outline of what he would like to see the ‘perfect’ Font Management application do or what it should look like.
Remember: It’s Quad Now or MacIntel Later, but no matter what, we’ll always need easy management of and access to our fonts.
I am done harping on this subject now, so others can add or go back on topic.
You’re not the first one nor the only one to call for Adobe to pick up ATM Deluxe, under any name. We’ve done it over and over here, in the ATM/Type and the Typography forums. No one has been more vocal than yours truly.
We’ve been told in no uncertain terms: it ain’t gonna happen. 🙁
the Adobe Type gurus have stated in no uncertain terms Adobe will not make a type manager for OSX. Who knows Apple just might get Font Book right in 10.5. but untill then FAP is the closest thing to ATM Deluxe.
I can think of one woman that I know who will desperately hope that her husband doesn’t see that!
(He is one of those compulsive-collector types who can’t resist buying every bigger and better new toy that is announced a manufacturer’s "dream" of a customer.)
I’m on my G4 right now. It appears that something has taken over my G5. It is doing all kinds of things without me telling it to. I can’t tell what some of it was, just things opening and closing it seems. Then my screen shots began zooming in and kept going, and the scroll bars are constantly snapping back to where I started, both on web pages and folders.
Does anyone know what this might be about? I rebooted, ran fsck -fy which check out, rebooted again, and it’s still happening.
Thanks for the quick responses. It seems I’m good now. Maybe it was the Universal Access. It was scary because things were happening without me making them happen. Windows opening and closing, windows zooming, scrolling continually snapping back to where it started. I thought something or someone had invaded my Mac.
I had been working on a proposal using a competitor’s website that the client directed me to as a guideline for how many pages, etc. I wondered if the competitor caught on and was sending missiles my way. 😉
I don’t know. There definitely was something else going on because I had to "catch" the drop down window to reboot as it kept flashing and going up and down.
Linda, I switched to Mail because entourage in Office X is limiting. As much as I liked Entourage it becomes very unstable if the user files go over 2GB. I lost a few months of email because of this.
My wife just got the student Office 2004 it has Entourage but I have not used it yet.
If you get lots of email and like to keep it for reference I’d stick with mail.
I have been using Entourage for ages. I keep stuff that is five years old and older. Some pretty large files. Entourage has never ever failed.
Currently, I’m using Entourage 2004 (part of Office 2004). On the rare occasion when it has crashed while spell checking a long email in Russian or Spanish, it recovers with all the typed text intact, right where you left off, despite the fact that the text had not been saved.
The Student/Teacher edition of MS Office is an absolute bargain. My wife certainly qualifies, but no proof of eligibility was ever requested.
Just remember to rebuild and/or repair your Entourage database every once in a while, say once a year or so. (By holding the Option key while launching Entourage.)
Ramón I’ve been using Office X and entourage since it was first released. I never had a problem until I least expected it. I get lots of email with big attachments so hitting the 2 Gig limit happens very fast. I’ll most likely fire up the new Entourage one of these days and run both Mail and Entourage side by side.
I switched to Mail when I got my G5. That would be about a year ago. My how time flys.
Been using Entourage for the last two versions. 2004 is great and works great with an exchange server as well. Last week at a conference I saw a demo of the new Mail program with Leopard. Looked pretty cool.
I use Mail because it just works, and I support some quite novice users. However Mail is a fairly limited app so I too look forward to the OS 10.5 version of Mail.
Mail works great. I have some 12000 messages stored in many folders. It’s solid and searches fast. I maintain many contacts for my business also and address book works well with mail.
Well I’m one of a small minority of Mac users who have had e-mail disappear right before their eyes in Mail. You don’t want to believe it at first. Then you find out there are others, but not that many, and nobody knows why. I don’t use Mail. Right now I’m using Thunderbird primarily because I can transfer everything among OS X, WIndows, and my 2 Linux distros. In addition I really like the extensions but keeping up with the changes in the Mozilla world would be an annoyance for many people. The apps and extensions keep changing fairly rapidly.
If Mail worked with my Exchange server – I would definitely use it. The fewer third party apps I have to use the better – but I could not get it working with our Exchange server so it’s Entourage.
Well I’m one of a small minority of Mac users who have had e-mail disappear right before their eyes in Mail.
Scary. You know, I might have actually had this happen too at least once. I think it was only one email, and I thought maybe the sender had rescinded it.
It is scary to be looking right at the e-mail inbox list and see several listings just disappear, then several more. It makes one lose faith in the app instantly! I really like Mail so I hope I can try it out in 10.5 and not experience that issue.
Welles – I had that happen once years ago with something like 10.2.?. I had a backup and was able to quickly and easily rebuild my mail. When a glich (probably disk mis-read or write) happens it’s probably going to trash the database you happen to be reading at that moment. Backups are important no matter what you are running.
Last week I was learning a new phone (the Nokia E62 PDA moble) and I trashed a bunch of addresses. It was my fault that time and my backup saved the day!
Yep, I always have two levels of backup going. One internal hard drive (not a RAID configuration) is script-backed-up daily and an external FireWire gets a back-up once a week. I’ve never lost any data with my ‘suspenders and a belt’ fanaticism.
My disappearing mail happened with brand new installs so it is less than likely that a corrupt database of 15 e-mails was the issue. Believe me, Apple couldn’t figure it out, all the forum members of the Apple forums couldn’t, Mac OS X Hints Forums came up empty too. And yet I’m not hallucinating, the same issue has been seen and reported by numerous others…just not a very large statistical segment…tiny in fact.
Update on Mac Pro – apparently there’s a bug where in ID and Illustrator you sometimes get extreme digital readouts in the transform palette. Like .25 becomes .24999989780
Nothing too upsetting – must be heaven for technical illustrators :)
I took it in to local Mac retailer. they wanted $700+ to fix it.
They said they could send it to Apple for $400
I called Apple Customer Relations and complained, after some discussion they agreed to split the $300 repair cost. I sent them a cashiers check for $150. Nov 7th I received my shipping box I packed it up and shipped it off. today I got it back. Its been running for about 2 hrs everything seems to be working fine.
Good news Buko. I’m glad it worked out as well as it did. It’s amazing how convenient it is to have a PowerBook. I use mine all the time. I generally just close the lid and don’t both shutting it down. I take it with me a lot when I leave the house and use it at restaurants, in the car, and at coffee shops. Yesterday I met a client at Panera’s and we went over design ideas for a website. I’ve also used it for photoshoots tethered to my camera, although I need to get better software for this as DP doesn’t always work right.
I’m running Windows on a Mac Pro and just installed it on an iMac. BootCamp is a marvelous piece of software and makes the installation seamless. Windows runs just exactly like it would on any other equivalent system. What’s not to like? (Unless your answer is Windows, of course.) You can use Parallels and have Windows running within your Mac OS with only a modest performance hit. You don’t even notice that with anything but the most weighty programs. I wouldn’t run any of my heavy duty apps in Parallels but some do.
I’d say the biggest issue to having multiple systems on one computer is a slightly greater complexity of backups. My strategy was to fill up all four bays of my Mac Pro with hard drives. One is my Mac OS. Next is partitioned into a scratch disk and a backup. Third is Windows, while the fourth is Windows scratch and backup.
Oh yes, there is one other issue on the Mac Pro. Windows XP can only access 2gb of RAM no matter how much you have installed. No one has quite figured out why. Perhaps there will be a solution by the release of Leopard. The general feeling is that it is a firmware issue.
I know my answer hardly answers a laptop circumstance but does address the general issue of Windows on a Mac. Go for it! The laptop issues with Windows were worked out first as they were the first Intlel Macs released and the new Core Duo2 is a fine machine which has none of the issues which plagued the first release of Core Duo MacBooks.
I did a ton of homework before ordering a MBP that my Dad will use for low level apps, including some Win-specific ones. I concluded that Win performance on MBPs is excellent.
When I order my MBP it will be with the full 3 GB of RAM from Apple because third party 2 GB MBP DIMMs are still about as expensive as Apple, $575, and anyone doing graphics may as well start with 3 GB. However your husband may want to get by with 2 GB of RAM (like I am configuring for my Dad’s light appplications) and replace a DIMM with 2 GB later if he feels the need.
P.S. The correct term is "MacBook Pro," Mac Pro is the tower.
We stopped by the Apple Store today. I was surprised to see that Apple does not offer the small silver MacBook Pro. The 15" MBP is thinner than mine though. It will be interesting to see if my husband really does come back to Mac.
I am beginning to wonder if my Mac has something that has invaded it. Quite often I am getting similar strange things happen. One is that my scroll bars will begin to move crazily and I cannot stop them. This can happen in my browser, folders, etc.
The way I’ve been dealing with it is by deleting my finder preference file. Sometimes this has been a challenge because I couldn’t catch it. But when I do delete it and reboot the problem goes away for a few days, only to return again at some point
Another new situation just started, and has to do with GoLlive. I was adding a listing to a client’s website this morning. All of a sudden it was as if I hit the return key 100 times. I couldn’t stop it. Then when it stopped I couldn’t fix the text right. Some words were missing, etc. So I deleted the text and pasted in new text. It looked right for a moment, but then suddenly there were words missing.
I tried to find something on this with Google a couple of times but having no luck.
I hope someone knows something about this and can help me.
Really? I could try another mouse. I still can use my current mouse when this happens. But whatever is going on does it all by itself.
I just deleted my com.apple.finder.plist file again, rebooted, and ran the fsck -fy script for good measure (although it usually checks out okay). Starting with a fresh com.apple.finder.plist file seems to fix the problem for a while.
Oh, and also check your Universal Access settings. You may have accidentally turned Sticky Keys or Mouse Keys on on through inadvertent use of a shortcut (like pressing Shift five times or Option five times).
Quickly turning Sticky Keys and Mouse Keys on or off If you use the Sticky Keys and Mouse Keys features on your computer only some of the time, you can set them to be easily turned on or off using a keyboard shortcut.
Once the keyboard shortcuts are turned on, you can turn Sticky Keys on or off by pressing the Shift key five times in a row. Turn Mouse Keys on or off by pressing the Option key five times in a row.
To turn on the Sticky Keys and Mouse Keys keyboard shortcuts: Choose Apple menu > System Preferences, and then click Universal Access. For Sticky Keys, click Keyboard and select the checkbox labeled "Press the Shift key five times to turn Sticky Keys on or off." For Mouse Keys, click Mouse and select the checkbox labeled "Press the Option key five times to turn Mouse Keys on or off."
Thanks Ramon. It doesn’t appear to be Universal Access. In the past I did that on occassion, but this is different. However, if the problem occurs again I’ll check UA again.
It just happened again in GoLive. I had to quit the program. I’m deleting GoLive’s preferences this time. It’s not Universal Access because I just checked it.
It happened again in GoLive. I closed the window and then the index.html page began blinking uncontrollably in the site window. I wish these things were not happening today. I have a long list of requests from this client. Sigh…
Something similar the other day, pressed backspace/delete in Indesign and watched the cursor zoom up the page deleting everything in sight. Stopped it by going Command-W to close the window, then cancelling. That’s the only time I’ve ever seen it though.
Buko, I’ve never spilled anything on my keyboard. The keyboard is the new one that came with the G5. I am quite sure it’s not the keyboard.
Kath, Were you able to figure out the problem? Was it only in GoLive? When I closed the window the site file ended up blinking a bunch then stopped.
I do have papers and client folders on top of my Wacom. The stylus is in it’s cradle and away from the workspace though. I wonder if shuffling papers on top of the tablet could cause this?
I was in Indesign, Linda, and it was a one-off. It’s kind of scary when your screen goes mad 😉 I did have one very weird thing in Golive. I brought a site home on a memory stick and opened it on this machine for the first time. On some pages there were chunks of text from a completely different site that is on the same machine and bug icons that showed broken links to pages in that other site. The other site was closed at the time. Very, very weird. I blame global warming 😉
Interesting Kath. I am also suspicious of one of my LaCie external drives. I noticed that right before this started happening, the drive started spinning up and I did not access it for anything. I’ve turned the drive off for now and will resume my client work shortly so we’ll see what happens
Make sure you’re not inadvertently pressing down on the space bar (or any key) with those papers, your arm, a necklace hanging from your neck, a bracelet, etc.
It seems the only program giving me trouble is GoLive right now. I trashed the site file and will be using the backup site file next… once I get back to it.
I had this experience in Finder. It was a while back. Dual 2.5 GHz G5, 4 GB RAM, OS 10.3.9.
Suddenly windows started opening and closing wildly, menus flashed, icons shimmered. It was an eerie lightshow that would not respond to keyboard or mouse or stylus… as if some kind of bizarre and cruel script were running full speed.
It happened once. I haven’t seen it since. Until now, I thought it was me. Thank you, Linda, for giving me the strength to come out 🙂
What Larry said. The first step with those symptoms is simply to plug in a different keyboard and mouse with different cables and restart. (Yeah I know the GoLive-only issue makes hardware less suspect, but try it.)
Ramón, I might buy your explanation were it almonds. But cashews simply have neither the protein nor the fiber to produce those kinds of OS muscle spasms. And don’t try to tell me the cashews had such an effect because they were salted. If anything, salt would have the opposite effect.
You have been right on most everything I’ve come to this forum with. But this time….
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