NEVER EVER EVER open an image directly from a card.
ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS copy the file(s) from the card to your hard drive, then open the file(s) from there.
Why not? It’s convenient for quick "Polaroiding" and I’ve been doing it for over 5 years with never a problem.
You’ve been lucky if you’ve never corrupted a card.
Smart money (along with a few Adobe engineers and a whole boatload of experienced users) has always said to copy any files you want to work on to your local drive, THEN open them in your application (Photoshop or what have you).
But hey, what do I know? If it works for you Earl, have at it. Just don’t come a-bawlin’ for help when you corrupt image data on a card.
..
I always copy files I want to work on (unless they’re already on the computer, when I shoot tethered).
When I shoot on CF, I always copy files to a hard drive, and usually also to CD or DVD, immediately after a shoot. But for quick on-the-job examination, for me and the art director, I preview the occasional file on the laptop. I have never had card corruption on either Mac or PC, in part because I’m careful to unmount the drive properly. My point is that this has now become trickier.
Hmm…
::Phos reads through the original post again, and scratches his chinny chin chin::
"We just upgraded a laptop from WinME & PS7.01 to WinXP & PSCS. Now it does something new."
My initial alarm goes off when I see that you have two MAJOR variables here in the equation that you have to contend withSystem upgrade and application upgrade. It’s always tougher to troubleshoot a problem when your variables aren’t isolated, so barring someone coming along who can tell you for sure where the problem/solution liesbecause of a similar experienceyou may have to suss this one out yourself.
Now, don’t flog me for being a die-hard Macophile, but the behavior has always been the same for mounted volumes…By invoking Command + E or dragging its icon to the trash, we simply eject the card, just like we’d do with a CD, a ZIP disk, a floppy, a connected external hard drive or a mounted server.
Even though I’ve worked on Windows systems, I haven’t done so enough to really grok the way Windows handles mounted volumes. It all seems so convoluted to me compared to the ease of a Mac. (Not sticking my tongue out at Windows, just saying that the Mac OS hasfrom the first time I worked with italways seemed smarter in the way it handles this).
I instinctively would guess that it’s not a problem caused by a change in Photoshop’s handling of mounted volumes, but then again, I’m still working with Photoshop 7.
Wish I could be of more solid assistance.
In short, Photoshop won’t let go of the most recent drive from which it pulled a file.
I wouldn’t be alarmed by that in the slightest.
1 – it isn’t necessarily abnormal
2 – you know how to get around it
It’s likely an issue of Photoshop wanting to save an open image from the directory in which it was opened, so it hangs onto the drive until you "release" it.
But Phos was right in directing you to copy images to your HD before examining them. I don’t like accessing CF media except to transfer.
Peace,
Tony
Just to add to what the others have already said. I believe XP by default wants to build thumbnails and create/update the desktop.ini file in the folder in which you are browsing the pics. Doing all that on a flash memory card that was formatted in a camera can *sometimes* cause problems.
Phos,
"…ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS copy the file(s) from the card to your hard drive, then open the file(s) from there…"
Is there anything risky about popping the CF card into a card reader and previewing in Bridge before ever copying images to the hard drive?
Additional question: After previewing as above, is it really ill-advised to erase unwanted images on the card from the computer? Friends insist card erasures should be effected from the camera. Other than screwing up the numbering sequence, what’s the problem?
George
It’s probably hardware protocols as managed by the operating system and used by the application program.
If it is any consolation a few years ago (probably about 10 or so) this would have a high probability of causing a computer crash – which begs the question: if you know it does so why persist in doing so? Pleasure?
"Is there anything risky about popping the CF card into a card reader and previewing in Bridge before ever copying images to the hard drive?"
Well, I think Chris Cox would be much better suited to answering this question thoroughly, but I’ll throw my tuppence in anyway.
It just seems to me that considering I don’t know EXACTLY what the Bridge is doing with files when they are opened to be previewed, I just wouldn’t do it.
What I DO know is that the safest and most established procedure has always been to copy files from a mounted volume onto the local drive before doing anything with them. It’s a simple enough matter to copy from the card to your hard drive, and look at them from there. Sure, it’ll take a little extra time, but think about how P.O.’ed you’d be if for some reason the data on your CF card got borked while you doing that direct preview in the Bridge.
But, hey…Earl has said above that he’s been doing it for a long time with no problems.
If I were Earl, I’d be knocking wood at every opportunity and carrying a bag full of four leaf clovers every time I plugged that card in.
I think it’s a data-loss disaster just waiting to happen.
Phosphor, here’s how I look at it.
When you attach your card to the computer for the purpose of copying files, is it ever corrupted or damaged in any way? Not if you follow the rules [see below]. So why would opening files from it be worse? It is like any removable drive — Zip, external hard disk, key drive, whatever — designed to be attached and removed as needed.
The official rules: Always make sure the camera is finished recording, and turn it off, before removing the card. Always unmount the drive (using the Safe Removal icon in Windows or trash or eject on Mac) before detaching from the computer. (That applies to all connection modes except some PC built-in media readers that are controlled by the floppy controller.) Never rename a CF file or folder from the computer, or enter metadata.
My additional rules: Never erase from or save to CF from the computer, even though it may be safe. Especially not from a Mac, which does things just differently enough to invite trouble. Always format the card in the camera, even if you have already done that on the computer (which I don’t). If you ever have a card anomaly, no matter how small, stop using it until you can check it thoroughly with a disk utility.
My answer to George’s Bridge question is, it is probably fine as long as your XMP’s are not set to save with the original files. I haven’t done this, but I used to use the PS7 Browser that way with no problem.
If you want an absolute guarantee of safety, you can always use your camera’s viewing application, which is designed for that purpose.
Bridge writes files to the directories it reads, if distributed cache is turned on. Not a good idea to write files to the image directories that the camera doesn’t know about.
Earl,
"…If you want an absolute guarantee of safety, you can always use your camera’s viewing application, which is designed for that purpose…"
By the "camera’s viewing application" do you mean viewing on the camera’s LCD screen or cabling from the camera to the computer’s USB port and viewing on the computer’s monitor? The camera’s LCD screen isn’t good enough to weed out maybes from keepers.
George
The camera’s viewing screen only shows you the thumbnails, in any event, unless you zoom in. I think Earl was talking about the software provided by the camera vendor for viewing and downloading the contents of the card in the camera.
You might want to try using something like Irfanview to look at the contents of the card; unless you save something as modified, Irfanview won’t do anything to the data on the card besides view the files.
NEVER EVER EVER open an image directly from a card.
Lets not get paranoid here.
The only danger of not copying images to the HD first is that there is no backup so card failure would get you really screwed.
I’m much less concerned about CF-card integrity than HD. CF card has NO MOVING PARTS.
How is opening images directly from the card any more dangerous than copying/moving them? They are loaded into memory and displayed or written to the HD respectively. Both operations are equally "risky".
I back up my images as soon as possible but
. when I need to open directly from the card
. I don’t think twice about it.
I too find it better to copy files from the card instead of manipulate them while on it. Even if you don’t save files back, an application may put things in the directory. (maybe archive flags, I don’t know).
I think it’s safe to erase files and folders from the card while in the pc card reader, in fact, an empty card forces the camera to perform a quick format ensuring a proper new DCIM folder is created and a "health check".
Indeed, never format a card through Windows. On a shoot you don’t want to fumble with cards that are unwilling to record and have to be camera formatted after all.
Rob
Michael, you got my meaning right regarding the viewing application, and thanks for the reminder about distributed cache files. So I would amend my answer to George: if you’re not certain about your XMP setting ("sidecars" vs. central location) and your cache setting (distributed vs. central), it’s more prudent not to browse the CF with Bridge.
I don’t think I’ve seen this much paranoid superstition anywhere else on the Internet. Except maybe at that whacko "Lizards Rule the Earth" website. 🙂
If you are running XP….
1. You do not compromise the integrity of the flash card by interacting with it while in a reader attached to the PC. Copy files, move files, delete files: It does not matter.
2. Bridge is not any more likely to wax your CF card than it is to wax your hard drive.
3. There is no reason to prefer formatting the card in the camera over formatting it in a reader attached to the PC. They both do the same thing. If your camera can’t read a card formatted by the PC, then your camera is broken.
If a flash card fails, it’s either due to extreme environmental factors or because it was a bum card to begin with (which is very rare among common brands). I suppose there’s a slight possibility that you could have a fried reader/writer. But there’s no voodoo involved. Flash cards (non-MicroDrive) are **extremely** reliable.
Skidoo, I began this thread never expecting the hackles I would raise with my previewing workflow. Obviously I believe I’m not putting my images at risk.
However. What has caused some CF problems is not the computer per se, but the alternating use of computer and camera. The camera has a limited operating system, which is the reason for "My additional rules" in message #10.
For example, renaming a file can make it invisible to the camera; renaming a folder can make all your files invisible, and force the camera to create a replacement folder. And files which don’t show up on the camera — including ones you’ve intentionally saved onto the CF — are likely to be forgotten and a)lost when you next format or b)left there to waste shooting capacity.
As for formatting on the PC, that can cause real trouble. My Fujis, for example, give a "Disk Not Formatted" message and refuse to re-format if the CF has been accidentally formatted in 32-bit FAT (the default on XP). Anyway, since every manufacturer’s manual instructs you to format in-camera, why not do it?
(And are you implying that lizards don’t rule the Earth?)
They may do – isn’t; there a theory on this?
Everyone’s workflow is, I suppose, a unique and personal workflow.
As for moi I prefer to work from copies of originals mostly to avoid human error of making a tweak to the only data I have of that one image.
For me, that excludes working direct from a card – my preference is (I am sure quite a few people use a similar workflow):
– card from camera into card reader
– port images over into primary data source folder
– make sure these are hunky-dory
– eject card from card reader and reformat within the camera or erase all from within the camera.
Some of the proprietary image viewers are OK but a great allrounder for swiftly scanning new images is IrfanView with CS2 Bridge apparently quite neat.
As for formatting on the PC, that can cause real trouble. My Fujis, for example, give a "Disk Not Formatted" message and refuse to re-format if the CF has been accidentally formatted in 32-bit FAT (the default on XP).
Well, there you go! 🙂
I’m just saying, it doesn’t hurt the card or risk its integrity if you format it on the PC. Clearly, if you’ve got a camera (likely older) that doesn’t recognize FAT-32, you shouldn’t format the card with FAT-32.
I’ve never understood why people reformat flash cards anyway. Once you’ve moved all the files off, why re-format?
Anyway, since every manufacturer’s manual instructs you to format in-camera, why not do it?
Are you suggesting people should read the manual?! BLASPHEMER! lol
(And are you implying that lizards don’t rule the Earth?)
Joey Buttafuco rules the Earth. Everyone knows that!
Apart from FAT-16 vs. FAT-32, there is one very important difference between in-camera and in-computer formatting. Specifically, when a card is formatted in the camera, the needed directory structure is created automatically so the camera can go to the appropriate directory, while formatting in the computer doesn’t create any directory below the root. You could use a batch file to create the directories below this automatically, but without those directories most cameras won’t be able to use the disk.
I’ve never used a camera that doesn’t create the directories automatically. That would be really poor engineering. Is there a camera that suffers from this flaw?
The numerous Canon cameras I have used don’t create the top-level directory structure on an externally formatted card; they create the directory structure when they format the card.
Weird. Which models are you referring to? The only Canons I’ve owned are p&s SD-x00 models. They all create the directory structure. My Nikon D70 creates the structure. So do the other Nikons. Do the Canon DSLRs not create the directories automatically? Say it ain’t so! 🙂
The directory structure on my Canon (1Dmk2) is created when it is missing. Rob
I experienced it on my old S100 elph a few years ago, and on another older Canon; never tried on my daughter’s S410. I think I’ve also experienced it on my 10D, but I just tried putting a computer-formatted card in and the 10D was perfectly happy to create the \DCIM directory and a subdirectory when I took a shot.
We have had an occasional loss of image FROM CF card when the device (card reader) wasn’t dismounted/shut down properly.
In one case this occured when the camera was directly hooked up to the computer and it was turned off without being "stopped". In another, a card reader USB cable was unplugged. In a third, the card was removed from an un-stopped card reader. Photoshop was not involved as it isn’t even installed here. I do not know what the person was running or doing at the time. I know what he was yelling after it happened.
I use Photoshop CS for personal work at home. I copy the files to a hard drive, stop the camera or card reader through the operating system, physically disconnect the device, and work with the images from the hard drive. I haven’t lost anything from a card, yet.
Bill
<polite applause>
No matter how robust a program or an operating system is I am sure that most reglar readers here (self included) can recall moments of erm user error?
The only good thing is that it should form part of a learning experience.
That’s when I ponder about repeated errors ….
deebs,
I guess that is one reason we are each "fixed" in our different work flows and are very defensive when we have to change them. We have worked most of the bugs out of them and they usually do actually work.
Bill
