Output to Print-color management

L
Posted By
lbp
Jul 8, 2004
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316
Replies
16
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Closed
I’m sorry if this is a topic already covered- i looked in FAQ’s in the mac forum (i’m working on a mac) as well as the windows forum and didn’t see this covered.

Assuming that i have a correctly calibrated input (such as scanner) and monitor and set my destination profile to that of what the printer is , do i need to go through the color managment print options located in File-Print Options, then Show More Options and Color Management. In the back of my head i am remembering some one telling me to not double color manage, but unsure if this is what they were talking about. I know not to change anything in the printer dialog box (i have an Epson 1280 and an 820- and under advanced controls it gives you color management controls)

Thanks

Larissa
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color manage output print

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GB
g_ballard
Jul 8, 2004
I have a correctly calibrated (scanner)

I don’t know what you mean by that?

And I have much confusion over your workflow, what you are saying…

Please outline:

What colorspace/profile your scanner captures/embeds.

Your Photoshop Color Settings.

Your Epson settings:

Source Space: ?
Print Space: ?
Color Management: ?
TL
Tim_Lookingbill
Jul 8, 2004
It sounds like you’re wanting a pass through solution much like a digicam hooked directly to the printer expecting accurate output.

I don’t think it can be done on a computer, yet. Too many varables.
L
lbp
Jul 8, 2004
I use a film scanner at my old school’s lab that embeds Adobe RGB

I then bring it back home to my computer (using a 17" Apple Studio Display currently just calibrated with a Display Profile of Adobe RGB (1998) with the System Preferences calibrator- hope to get something more precise in near future) and these are my Photoshop (using CS) color settings :

Working Spaces:
RGB: Adobe RGB (1998)
CMYK: ColorSync CMYK-US Web Uncoated
Grey: Dot Gain 20%
Spot- Dot Gain 20%

Color Management Policies:

RGB:Preserve Embedded Profiles
CMYK: Preserve Embedded Profiles
Grey: Preserve Embedded Profiles

Conversion Options
Engine: Adobe(ACE)
Intent: Perceptual

Use Black Point Compensation checked
Use Dither (8-bt/channel image) checked

I guess I didn’t phrase my question properly: My question is, say i have an image that i take into Photoshop with a source profile of Adobe RGB and assign it a profile of Epson Stylus Photo 1280 Premium Glossy Photo Paper (which will be my output) and correct the color changes before i want to print it and am happy with the results- when i want to print it out, do i need to go under File-Print With Preview, check show more options and under color management choose the source space and print space, or is that redundant?

My reference to the Epson color management was reguarding when you just choose command-P to print and get the dialog box (default pop up is copies and pages), choosing Color Managment it gives another drop down menu where you are able to modify the color controls, given a mode and able to modify brightness contrast saturation cyan magenta and yellow. This modification is unneccessary if everything is properly calibrated, am i right?

I hope i made myself and my question more clear

Thanks

Larissa
TL
Tim_Lookingbill
Jul 8, 2004
You must have a custom built monitor profile you created and named with a calibration program or hardware package. Do not use AdobeRGB as your monitor profile. Start out before calibration with a canned MONITOR profile (AppleRGB, sRGB or any one of the Apple display profiles), then calibrate.

You don’t want to assign the Epson profile and you don’t want to mess with any Epson driver slider controls or any Print with Preview feature.

Read this Epson CM workflow to get a print to match your screen:

<http://www.gballard.net/nca.html>
GB
g_ballard
Jul 8, 2004
Excellent!

17" Apple Studio Display currently just calibrated with a Display Profile
of Adobe RGB (1998)

Here is a problem.
We don’t want AdboeRGB as a monitor profile, it has nothing to do with monitors. We do not want to use Adobe RGB as a starting point to run the Calibrator. We need to "Get a Good Screen."

Looks like you are on US PREPRESS DEFAULTS (in PS’s Color Settings)? Good, we are on the same page (PS is not broke, except for your suspect monitor profile).

Color Managment it gives another drop down menu where you are able to
modify the color controls, given a mode and able to modify brightness contrast saturation cyan magenta and yellow. This modification is unneccessary if everything is properly calibrated, am i right?

Although some people use the Epson sliders with satisfaction, IMO, the sliders (Epson color management) defeats the concept a properly-calibrated workflow (and sends my good color through a washing machine)…

[I] prefer good profiles and a NO COLOR ADJUSTMENT workflow.
L
lbp
Jul 8, 2004
Thanks so much-

That’s a great link (it’s now bookmarked ) and both of your explanations have been very useful
GB
g_ballard
Jul 8, 2004
i have an image that i take into Photoshop with a source profile of
Adobe RGB and assign it a profile of Epson Stylus Photo 1280 Premium Glossy Photo Paper (which will be my output)

Here is a serious error in your theory.
If the file is correct under a known color space, AdobeRGB:

Image> Mode> Assign (any other profile) Profile HOSES the color!

If you want to feed the Epson its ‘native’ ColorSpace/Printer/Paper/InkProfile, and use SameAsSource/NCA:

PS> Image> Mode> CONVERT to Profile (the target profile)

++++++

I am beginning to think a good explanation of the "theory" is:

Photoshop only uses the monitor profile to PROOF the file (through a SourceSpace>Monitor Conversion)

Photoshop only uses the printer profile to PROOF the file (through a SourceSpace>ICCprofile Conversion).

MonitorRGB<SourceSpace>TargetSpace

Once the lights comes on, the theory is no more complicated than that 🙂
GB
g_ballard
Jul 8, 2004
And then there is Photoshop’s SoftProofing (PROOFing target profiles/ColorSpaces on screen)…
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Jul 8, 2004
<< This modification is unneccessary if everything is properly calibrated, am i right? >>

Theoretically, Yes.

In actuality, with the Epson Stylus Photo 1280 and Premium Glossy Photo Paper, you may find that you get better results by moving the Epsom Color Control Sliders.

If you do that, save your settings so that you can always use the same ones when printing on that stock.

As a starting point, my settings for Premium Glossy Photo Paper are: Brightness = 3;
Contrast = 1;
Saturation = 2;
C and M = 0;
Y = 7
L
lbp
Jul 8, 2004
Thanks Ann-

Also I misspoke (or mistyped) assign, I know there is a difference and really meant that i’m converting to the Epson profile (my Adobe RGB input at the scanner i don’t fully trust-either the scanner could be off or the monitor that i’m seeing it on could be off, so i do no adjustments as it’s being scanned in) but it’s the only way for this struggling photo assistant to get an analog negative into a digital format- labs become way too pricy for me). So when i bring it into Photoshop and know that its printed destination is at the Epson, i automatically convert the profile into the Epson and adjust from there.

Thanks
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Jul 8, 2004
I would start by calibrating your monitor before you do another thing!

Then:
What scanner are you using and have you set-up it’s color management settings and turned them ON?

That should embed a color profile in the resulting scan so that you now actually have a profile to convert FROM!

This Link (and the rest of the thread) may help you:
Ann Shelbourne "GRAINY images-Calibration problem PS7-Nikon?" 7/3/04 10:41am </cgi-bin/webx?14/21>
L
lbp
Jul 8, 2004
Oh thanks-

Monitor is properly calibrated now and has a custom profile.

That link was very helpful because i’m scanning from a Nikon Super Coolscan 8000 ED.

My previous scanning had Color Management on and set to create Adobe RGB.

I scan at 4000ppi @100%, and then in the past i left the other settings as the standard defaults, mostly because even though it’s supposed to be a high end lab at a prestigious design school… it leaves a lot to be desired in terms of environments and calibrations and simply being able to trust what my eye sees.

I’ll be in the lab tomorrow scanning. I will try to implement these settings to get a good result.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Jul 8, 2004
Calibrate the School’s monitor too — preferably while no-one is looking!

You will find that Nikon and Adobe’s versions of Adobe RGB (1998) are almost (if not exactly!) identical.

Just convert from Nikon’s to Adobe’s when you open your scans in Photoshop. (But don’t "convert" them to your Printer Space!).
TL
Tim_Lookingbill
Jul 8, 2004
Check your histogram in PS for any long spikes and that will tell you how far apart the Nikon to Adobe conversion degraded the file. It will probably be barely noticeable.
AS
Ann_Shelbourne
Jul 8, 2004
Interesting suggestion.

I tried it and the Histograms don’t appear to change at all when you convert from Nikon to Adobe RGB 1998.
L
lbp
Jul 9, 2004
So i went to the lab today-

I was unable to recalibrate their monitors, they have set it up so that i don’t even have access to the system preferences, so i tried to make do with what i had. They have new Apple Studio Displays so it is a bit better from their aging CRTs

I scanned using all the basic settings Ann layed out earlier in the linked post, but i did nothing to adjust once i saw the image preview- I figured i would bring it home to a calibrated monitor before i further proceeded. I haven’t had time to sit down and retouch and try to print, but i’m sure if i run into any problems you’ll hear back from me

Thanks

Larissa

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