Printing problem.. Is it my problem or the comercial printer?

wrote in message

Hello,

I hope you guys can help me. I recently made an ad in adobe illustrator which has a greyscale image with an orange to transparent gradient on top made by creating an opacity mask. Well on the screen it looks fine and so I sent it to the comercial printer. However when the comercial printer gave us the proof it shows a sort of lighter hue band in the area where the orange gradient ends and meets with the grey image below. In other words, instead of the gradient blending smoothly with the grey image below (as it shows on screen!) there is like a lighter strip that just almost ends abrouptly and looks bad where the gradient ends.

This same thing had happened to me with almost the same ad in the same place when I took it to Kinkos to print. However this time the gradient and the greyscale image were one rasterized bitmap image exported from photoshop. The guy in kinkos was telling me that it is a problem that appears because the image has an area of just k and sudddenly it goes to color and it not always goes smoothly. Well I told him that in my printer at my office that didn’t come up, but he told me again about the k to color problem which was odd to me because this time it was just one image like a photo so I don’t see how that could be my problem. Anyways I suggested he try printing it from another printer there at kinkos and he did and this time it came out without any problems. So that solved it that time.

But my current case is that the proof from the comercial printing is showing this band again, so my question to you all is this: Is this a problem that the Comercial printer should solve or is there something I can do to correct this in the illustrator file?

Any help/suggestions will be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Aluxe

Aluxe,

A former friend of mine used to work at a Kinko’s in Philly as a "graphic designer" there. He still is a very talented designer. To get to the point, he would tell me about the total lack of skill of the "designers who worked with him. He even told me that Kinko’s was for amateurs and off the street work. So, Kinko’s is not a commercial printer. It’s nothing more than a glorified quick printer. In fact, UPS has taken them over and done away with most of the printing. Please take your work to a real commercial printer. They know what they’re doing.

Good luck for the next time,

Stu

wrote in message

Hello,

I hope you guys can help me. I recently made an ad in adobe illustrator which has a greyscale image with an orange to transparent gradient on top made by creating an opacity mask. Well on the screen it looks fine and so I sent it to the comercial printer. However when the comercial printer gave us the proof it shows a sort of lighter hue band in the area where the orange gradient ends and meets with the grey image below. In other words, instead of the gradient blending smoothly with the grey image below (as it shows on screen!) there is like a lighter strip that just almost ends abrouptly and looks bad where the gradient ends.

This same thing had happened to me with almost the same ad in the same place when I took it to Kinkos to print. However this time the gradient and the greyscale image were one rasterized bitmap image exported from photoshop. The guy in kinkos was telling me that it is a problem that appears because the image has an area of just k and sudddenly it goes to color and it not always goes smoothly. Well I told him that in my printer at my office that didn’t come up, but he told me again about the k to color problem which was odd to me because this time it was just one image like a photo so I don’t see how that could be my problem. Anyways I suggested he try printing it from another printer there at kinkos and he did and this time it came out without any problems. So that solved it that time.

But my current case is that the proof from the comercial printing is showing this band again, so my question to you all is this: Is this a problem that the Comercial printer should solve or is there something I can do to correct this in the illustrator file?

Any help/suggestions will be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Aluxe

wrote:

Hello,

I hope you guys can help me. I recently made an ad in adobe illustrator which has a greyscale image with an orange to transparent gradient on top made by creating an opacity mask. Well on the screen it looks fine and so I sent it to the comercial printer. However when the comercial printer gave us the proof it shows a sort of lighter hue band in the area where the orange gradient ends and meets with the grey image below. In other words, instead of the gradient blending smoothly with the grey image below (as it shows on screen!) there is like a lighter strip that just almost ends abrouptly and looks bad where the gradient ends.

This same thing had happened to me with almost the same ad in the same place when I took it to Kinkos to print. However this time the gradient and the greyscale image were one rasterized bitmap image exported from photoshop. The guy in kinkos was telling me that it is a problem that appears because the image has an area of just k and sudddenly it goes to color and it not always goes smoothly. Well I told him that in my printer at my office that didn’t come up, but he told me again about the k to color problem which was odd to me because this time it was just one image like a photo so I don’t see how that could be my problem. Anyways I suggested he try printing it from another printer there at kinkos and he did and this time it came out without any problems. So that solved it that time.

But my current case is that the proof from the comercial printing is showing this band again, so my question to you all is this: Is this a problem that the Comercial printer should solve or is there something I can do to correct this in the illustrator file?

Any help/suggestions will be really appreciated.

It would be helpful to know what type of printer it is. Is it a laser printer? And it would also help to know what type of file you are providing – CMYK? Third, are you using a custom profile to generate the CMYK file, or leaving this to Kinkos.

Few people would provide even a guess without knowing both of these, but der Curvemeister loves to step across the plate and swing at pitches like this one, so here goes.

If the answer to both of these is yes, then look at the K plate and look for a loss of density or other banding at the point in question. Since the problem involves orange, look carefully at the Y plate – monitors are poor at representing light, saturated yellows. Whichever channel the problem is in, a good way to hide the transition is by adding a strategic amount of noise.

Anopther possibility: custom profiles are a famous source of gratuitous banding – get hold of the profile in question and run it on some gradients, and see if it introduces its own banding.
—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

Stuart B. Henlis wrote:

So, Kinko’s is not a commercial printer. It’s nothing more than a glorified quick printer.

I think my story was kind of confusing, the proof I got was from a real comercial printer and I mentioned Kinko’s because this same thing had happened to me about a month ago also with Kinkos. But my current problem is happening with a real comercial printer, so is that something they should fix?

Mike thanks a lot for all your suggestions. About which printer it is, I don’t know, it is a comercial printing not Kinkos. Like I was telling Stuart I only mentioned Kinkos because the same thing happened to me about a month ago at Kinkos, however my problem now is coming from the proof that I am getting from the comercial printer.

Now as to your questions, the orange gradient I am making is a pantone color and the bitmap image below is cmyk. What you are suggesting about checking the K plate, is it something I should check in adobe illustrator or something that the comercial printer people should be resolving? And could you explain me a bit more about the adding noise part? Is this something I have to do or the printer? Thanks very much for all your help.

wrote:

Hello,

I hope you guys can help me. I recently made an ad in adobe illustrator which has a greyscale image with an orange to transparent gradient on top made by creating an opacity mask. Well on the screen it looks fine

Not being an Illustrator expert it’s hard for me to understand this. You have an orange to transparent gradient? What does this mean? It’s opaque at one end and becomes transparent at the other? That implies some sort of graphic mobius strip. At what point does it cease to be transparent? How would the program decide where to put that point? Do you mean you have an orange gradient on top of a grayscale image that is transparent? Like an orange that overprints a grayscale image?

and so I sent it to the comercial printer. However when the comercial printer gave us the proof it shows a sort of lighter hue band in the area where the orange gradient ends and meets with the grey image below. In other words, instead of the gradient blending smoothly with the grey image below (as it shows on screen!) there is like a lighter strip that just almost ends abrouptly and looks bad where the gradient ends.

Ah, I think the fog is clearing. You want the grayscale image to fade into the orange blend, decreasing density as it approaches the solid part of the orange blend. Am I right? And then the orange blend overprints the grayscale?

But one issue I’m not clear on. How many colors is this job supposed to be? Is it a two color job with Black + Orange? Is it CMYK? Is it CMYK +Spot? These details are very important in how to address this problem.

This same thing had happened to me with almost the same ad in the same place when I took it to Kinkos to print. However this time the gradient and the greyscale image were one rasterized bitmap image exported from photoshop. The guy in kinkos was telling me that it is a problem that appears because the image has an area of just k and sudddenly it goes to color and it not always goes smoothly. Well I told him that in my printer at my office that didn’t come up, but he told me again about the k to color problem which was odd to me because this time it was just one image like a photo so I don’t see how that could be my problem. Anyways I suggested he try printing it from another printer there at kinkos and he did and this time it came out without any problems. So that solved it that time.

What kind of printer was used? Was one a Postcript printer and one not? That would created very different results since one would use the screen drawing mechanism and one would use Postscript. A very common problem we experience with people who own inkjet printers but don’t invest in Postscript rips. Keep in mind the world of commercial printing is based on Postscript/Acrobat. No devices in commercial printing use the computers windowing mechanism to render images.

But my current case is that the proof from the comercial printing is showing this band again, so my question to you all is this: Is this a problem that the Comercial printer should solve or is there something I can do to correct this in the illustrator file?

Any help/suggestions will be really appreciated.

Iluustrator warns about using spot colors with transparency but it has a check box that says "don’t show this dialog again" which most people check and then forget about it.

The solution to your problem (or statement that there is no solution) requires that we know about the color of the document.

1) Black plus spot
2) CMYK
3) CMYK plus spot.

I would have to know the answer to really know what to tell you.

Even how to proof it depends on the answer to that question. You might be experiencing a problem where a CMYK proofer is trying to simulate spot colors and the final output will be fine. I don’t know.

How many colors is the job supposed to be?

Well, I’m far from being an expert, but the first thing I would check would be the color profile. You might have to try a couple of different ones. If you work with a regular printer, check with them for recommended settings. It’s best to work with one or two printers so you know how they work. No two bureaus are going to print exactly like each other.

You might also add just a touch of gausian blur after you build the gradient. That tends to soften the transition and reduces banding, especially if you’re going to a small laser printer.

Skywolf.

"Lee Blevins" wrote in message

wrote:

Hello,

I hope you guys can help me. I recently made an ad in adobe illustrator which has a greyscale image with an orange to transparent gradient on top made by creating an opacity mask. Well on the screen it looks fine

Not being an Illustrator expert it’s hard for me to understand this. You have an orange to transparent gradient? What does this mean? It’s opaque at one end and becomes transparent at the other? That implies some sort of graphic mobius strip. At what point does it cease to be transparent? How would the program decide where to put that point? Do you mean you have an orange gradient on top of a grayscale image that is transparent? Like an orange that overprints a grayscale image?

and so I sent it to the comercial printer. However when the comercial printer gave us the proof it shows a sort of lighter hue band in the area where the orange gradient ends and meets with the grey image below. In other words, instead of the gradient blending smoothly with the grey image below (as it shows on screen!) there is like a lighter strip that just almost ends abrouptly and looks bad where the gradient ends.

Ah, I think the fog is clearing. You want the grayscale image to fade into the orange blend, decreasing density as it approaches the solid part of the orange blend. Am I right? And then the orange blend overprints the grayscale?

But one issue I’m not clear on. How many colors is this job supposed to be? Is it a two color job with Black + Orange? Is it CMYK? Is it CMYK +Spot? These details are very important in how to address this problem.

This same thing had happened to me with almost the same ad in the same place when I took it to Kinkos to print. However this time the gradient and the greyscale image were one rasterized bitmap image exported from photoshop. The guy in kinkos was telling me that it is a problem that appears because the image has an area of just k and sudddenly it goes to color and it not always goes smoothly. Well I told him that in my printer at my office that didn’t come up, but he told me again about the k to color problem which was odd to me because this time it was just one image like a photo so I don’t see how that could be my problem. Anyways I suggested he try printing it from another printer there at kinkos and he did and this time it came out without any problems. So that solved it that time.

What kind of printer was used? Was one a Postcript printer and one not? That would created very different results since one would use the screen drawing mechanism and one would use Postscript. A very common problem we experience with people who own inkjet printers but don’t invest in Postscript rips. Keep in mind the world of commercial printing is based on Postscript/Acrobat. No devices in commercial printing use the computers windowing mechanism to render images.

But my current case is that the proof from the comercial printing is showing this band again, so my question to you all is this: Is this a problem that the Comercial printer should solve or is there something I can do to correct this in the illustrator file?

Any help/suggestions will be really appreciated.

Iluustrator warns about using spot colors with transparency but it has a check box that says "don’t show this dialog again" which most people check and then forget about it.

The solution to your problem (or statement that there is no solution) requires that we know about the color of the document.

1) Black plus spot
2) CMYK
3) CMYK plus spot.

I would have to know the answer to really know what to tell you.
Even how to proof it depends on the answer to that question. You might be experiencing a problem where a CMYK proofer is trying to simulate spot colors and the final output will be fine. I don’t know.
How many colors is the job supposed to be?

Mike thanks a lot for all your suggestions. About which printer it is, I don’t know, it is a comercial printing not Kinkos. Like I was telling Stuart I only mentioned Kinkos because the same thing happened to me about a month ago at Kinkos, however my problem now is coming from the proof that I am getting from the comercial printer.

Now as to your questions, the orange gradient I am making is a pantone color and the bitmap image below is cmyk. What you are suggesting about checking the K plate, is it something I should check in adobe illustrator or something that the comercial printer people should be resolving? And could you explain me a bit more about the adding noise part? Is this something I have to do or the printer? Thanks very much for all your help.

I would guess that the proof (method of proof) is where the problem lies. It sounds like the digital proofing used has limitations as to fine degrees of output, specially so far as converting the gradient to such a light colour. I would bet that final output from RIP (for press) will be ok. Just my 2 cents.
Keith.

In article ,
wrote:

I hope you guys can help me. I recently made an ad in adobe illustrator which has a greyscale image with an orange to transparent gradient on top made by creating an opacity mask. Well on the screen it looks fine and so I sent it to the comercial printer. However when the comercial printer gave us the proof it shows a sort of lighter hue band in the area where the orange gradient ends and meets with the grey image below. In other words, instead of the gradient blending smoothly with the grey image below (as it shows on screen!) there is like a lighter strip that just almost ends abrouptly and looks bad where the gradient ends.

I think I know exactly what you’re talking about. If so, what you are seeing is an optical illusion; the "stripe" at the end of the gradient appears because the gradient ends abruptly and the human eye has a trait called "lateral inhibition," which exaggerates edges in a way similar to the way unsharp masking works.

I have had similar problems with Quark and Illustrator created gradients which end at an image. The solution? Create the gradient in Photoshop, which will add a small amount of noise to dither the gradient, which helps get rid of the appearance of the bright "stripe" or line where it ends. (Your inkjet print does not shop this optical illusion in part because it, too, uses dithering to produce color.)

—
Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

On 6/15/05 4:35 AM, uttered:

Now as to your questions, the orange gradient I am making is a pantone color and the bitmap image below is cmyk. What you are suggesting about checking the K plate, is it something I should check in adobe illustrator or something that the comercial printer people should be resolving? And could you explain me a bit more about the adding noise part? Is this something I have to do or the printer? Thanks very much for all your help.

As to your responsibility question, the printer should atleast be able to tell you how to fix the problem. You should be communicating with the printer’s prepress department before creating/submitting your files. How can you produce a file properly when you don’t know if it’s laser, offset, web, inkjet, etc? How are they outputting the proof?

I’m still confused by the rest and am not an expert either. Is the job running as 2 spot colors or as CMYK. I’ll ask these questions and let the prepress guys provide solutions.
Are you working with color management on, and if so, do your Photoshop (if that is the source of the grayscale image) and Illustrator settings match? Printing as Spot or CMYK?
Is your Pantone orange set to Spot?
Is your placed grayscale image saved as CMYK or grayscale? Does your Opacity Mask involve a blending mode/percentage? Before you created the Opacity Mask, was the orange a gradient? If so, was it made with values like Pantone Orange 100% to Pantone Orange 0%; or how? Have you tried Flattening Transparency to see the results on screen? What version of Illustrator?
Are you submitting a native Illustrator file or EPS or what? Can you upload a PNG or JPG of the file to a web page for the experts to view?

These may not be all the applicable questions, but I think it’s enough to give the prepress group clues to the problem so they don’t have to guess.

inez

I just want to thank all you people for the amazing amount of USEFUL information and tips that you provided. I mentioned some of this to the printer and they got back to me saying that they had figured it out.

Thanks again very much for everyones help.

Aluxe

<aluxelocochon@

| I just want to thank all you people for the amazing amount of USEFUL | information and tips that you provided. I mentioned some of this to the | printer and they got back to me saying that they had figured it out. |
| Thanks again very much for everyones help.
|

Care to share the solution?

I’m with Keith, I think it is a proofing detail. Before spinning my wheels working on a new file, I would get the printers opinion on why it proofed that way. Since you are going to the expense to print 5 colors order a high-resolution proof if they are CTP, if not and they are using film get a blueline and matchprint.

JAK

wrote:

Hello,

I hope you guys can help me. I recently made an ad in adobe illustrator which has a greyscale image with an orange to transparent gradient on top made by creating an opacity mask. Well on the screen it looks fine and so I sent it to the comercial printer. However when the comercial printer gave us the proof it shows a sort of lighter hue band in the area where the orange gradient ends and meets with the grey image below. In other words, instead of the gradient blending smoothly with the grey image below (as it shows on screen!) there is like a lighter strip that just almost ends abrouptly and looks bad where the gradient ends.

This same thing had happened to me with almost the same ad in the same place when I took it to Kinkos to print. However this time the gradient and the greyscale image were one rasterized bitmap image exported from photoshop. The guy in kinkos was telling me that it is a problem that appears because the image has an area of just k and sudddenly it goes to color and it not always goes smoothly. Well I told him that in my printer at my office that didn’t come up, but he told me again about the k to color problem which was odd to me because this time it was just one image like a photo so I don’t see how that could be my problem. Anyways I suggested he try printing it from another printer there at kinkos and he did and this time it came out without any problems. So that solved it that time.

But my current case is that the proof from the comercial printing is showing this band again, so my question to you all is this: Is this a problem that the Comercial printer should solve or is there something I can do to correct this in the illustrator file?

Any help/suggestions will be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Aluxe

I thought I would add my twopenneth.

Did you infor the commercial printer that you had used transparency? There are lots of ways to RIP a file, maybe you could ask him to work out a way it could work?

Dean

wrote in message

Hello,

I hope you guys can help me. I recently made an ad in adobe illustrator which has a greyscale image with an orange to transparent gradient on top made by creating an opacity mask. Well on the screen it looks fine and so I sent it to the comercial printer. However when the comercial printer gave us the proof it shows a sort of lighter hue band in the area where the orange gradient ends and meets with the grey image below. In other words, instead of the gradient blending smoothly with the grey image below (as it shows on screen!) there is like a lighter strip that just almost ends abrouptly and looks bad where the gradient ends.

This same thing had happened to me with almost the same ad in the same place when I took it to Kinkos to print. However this time the gradient and the greyscale image were one rasterized bitmap image exported from photoshop. The guy in kinkos was telling me that it is a problem that appears because the image has an area of just k and sudddenly it goes to color and it not always goes smoothly. Well I told him that in my printer at my office that didn’t come up, but he told me again about the k to color problem which was odd to me because this time it was just one image like a photo so I don’t see how that could be my problem. Anyways I suggested he try printing it from another printer there at kinkos and he did and this time it came out without any problems. So that solved it that time.

But my current case is that the proof from the comercial printing is showing this band again, so my question to you all is this: Is this a problem that the Comercial printer should solve or is there something I can do to correct this in the illustrator file?

Any help/suggestions will be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Aluxe

Hello everyone, the comercial printer said they solved the problem, I am trying to find out what exactly they did.