What have you tried so far to correct it? That sounds like an operating system issue. Let us know what you’ve tried, and then there are a couple of outstanding Apple "techs" who can make further recommendations.
Hi Beth, thanks… here’s what I have done so far:
Uninstalled/reinstalled to various folders, deleted/moved preferences, plug-ins, caches, etc. Have run Disk Utilities and repaired permissions. Have removed every non OSX app except Macromedia Studio MX, Corel Photo-Paint, Microtek scanner finder, all which were peacefully cohabitating with Elements before problem started. Have downloaded the 30 day trial and tried it. Having problem every time with PSE2 after months of no problems, although did have same problem 2X during I.E. browser sessions, but that has stopped.
PSE2 will open and run under Classic mode by dbl clicking a plug-in.
Here is entire crash log:
Date/Time: 2003-11-16 08:22:31 -0800
OS Version: 10.2.8 (Build 6R73)
Host: Douglas-Reynoldss-Computer.local.
Command: Photoshop Elements 2.0
PID: 451
Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000000
Thread 0 Crashed:
#0 0x00000000 in 0x0
#1 0x00697a34 in 0x697a34
#2 0x00bdbbdc in 0xbdbbdc
#3 0x00c21410 in 0xc21410
#4 0x00c21910 in 0xc21910
#5 0x00beba14 in 0xbeba14
#6 0x00bebb00 in 0xbebb00
#7 0x00beb778 in 0xbeb778
#8 0x00e21eb4 in 0xe21eb4
#9 0x00e21d54 in 0xe21d54
#10 0x00e21abc in 0xe21abc
#11 0x00e21850 in 0xe21850
#12 0x00e20ca0 in 0xe20ca0
#13 0x00e22228 in 0xe22228
#14 0x00e21d00 in 0xe21d00
#15 0x00e21abc in 0xe21abc
#16 0x00e21850 in 0xe21850
#17 0x00e20ca0 in 0xe20ca0
#18 0x00e21234 in 0xe21234
#19 0x00e20f6c in 0xe20f6c
#20 0x00e2058c in 0xe2058c
#21 0x00e20518 in 0xe20518
#22 0x00e200f4 in 0xe200f4
#23 0x00bed03c in 0xbed03c
#24 0x00697554 in 0x697554
#25 0x00c54320 in 0xc54320
#26 0x002b1278 in 0x2b1278
#27 0x002b15e0 in 0x2b15e0
PPC Thread State:
srr0: 0x00000000 srr1: 0x4000f030 vrsave: 0x00000000
xer: 0x00000000 lr: 0x9013e4b8 ctr: 0x00000000 mq: 0x00000000 r0: 0x00000000 r1: 0xbfffe490 r2: 0x90147178 r3: 0x901c9678 r4: 0x00000003 r5: 0x016b5bb4 r6: 0x0000078c r7: 0x00000010 r8: 0x0000078c r9: 0xa0130938 r10: 0xa0130d40 r11: 0x00000028 r12: 0x00000000 r13: 0x00000000 r14: 0x00000000 r15: 0x00000000 r16: 0x00000000 r17: 0x00000000 r18: 0x00000000 r19: 0x00000000 r20: 0x01a5fc20 r21: 0xffffffff r22: 0xbffffbe0 r23: 0x00051e80 r24: 0x0006e890 r25: 0x00000000 r26: 0x0310e990 r27: 0x00000000 r28: 0x00000003 r29: 0xa0131080 r30: 0x016b5bb4 r31: 0x9013e428
When you say "disk utilties" did that include fsck? If so, did it find anything? Have you tried jaguar cache cleaner?
I mean OSX disk untilities, verify & repair disk. i don’t know what fsck is and I’m on 10.2.8.
Fsck is a unix command that is used to clean up problems. If something goes wacko, it’s one of the first things I try.
Restart, or Start your computer with the command and S depressed. A screen will appear that is text against a black background. It might freak you out at first. Your looking under the hood of your operating system. Now you’re in Unix (Terminal) and it responds to specific commands. This is the trouble shooting one:
type
fsck -y (leave a space between k and -)
and then hit the return key. It will start doing stuff. It may say that modifications have been made. Then repeat the process.
Then type reboot
Hit the return key and the OS you are accustomed to will appear.
OK did fsck -y twice as instructed still no go. Can’t find anything called jaguar cache cleaner on the system. Is there any hidden Elements file that I might be missing when uninstalling for reinstall that might be left behind causing problem?
..Can’t find anything called jaguar cache cleaner on the system.
No, douglas, you need to download that from verstiontracker or macupdate if you want it.
If you removed com.adobe.photoshop.elements.plist and theAdobe preferences as well as the application folder, you got everything. You don’t have any antivirus software or anything from Norton on the computer, do you?
There was a Norton something, I took it off days ago. This is crazy. I just fsck -y’d about 8 times in a row as another forum said to do it until it says OK and doesn’t repair, but it never did. PSE2 ran fine until a few days ago. This has got to be something simple, all the complex fixes haven’t worked.
But while we’re looking since I can get at it by clicking on a plug-in and opening in classic mode, please tell me if there’s a way to open it directly from classic mode, and also since classic mode has only a few fonts available and I’m a Windows switcher, which fonts will Classic mode recognize so I can put them into the font file?
Thanks
By the way, no one has yet told me what this error message means. I have it posted on 4 different forums and no one will touch the root of the problem. Macs are supposed to be SIMPLE and USER FRIENDLY. Why doesn’t anyone know what kern_protection_failure / Bad Access means?
We do know what it means. It means rouglhly that your system is denying access, either because the permissions are wrong, or because there is some kind of damage to your directory.
People haven’t answered you because there are many degrees of possible trouble here and we can’t say how bad it is. It’s like getting a message that says "my leg hurts." Does that mean a bee stung you, you have arthritis, or you need an amputation?
In your case I’m afraid I would guess that Norton hosed your system, to tell you the truth. It’s known as "disk doctor kervorkian’ in X and for a good reason. It has trashed more people’s systems than anything else I can think of.
If fsck finds errors it can’t repair, you should get disk warrior and see if that can fix it, because if fsck can’t fix it, you’ve got Trouble. Do not reinstall Norton systemworks. Do not install anything norton in X except anti-virus.
If you don’t believe me, do a search at the apple forums on Norton. You will get an earful.
EDIT I can’t remember whether you tried booting from your os install cd and running disk repair. If not, try that.
Finally an explanation, thank you at least I know what I am dealing with. I thought everyone was grasping at straws. I’m glad its just PSE2 not launching from OSX that is having problems. Everything else seems OK.
Will erasing HD and reinstalling OSX undo Norton’s damage?
Yes, but it’s pretty drastic. It’s pretty common to see Norton cause trouble in just one program at first. If you have Appleworks, that’s often the first to go. You might try an archive and install first and see if that does it–you can fix a lot of problems that way, depending on how deep this went. In any case, I would make sure you have a good back-up, a good thing to have at all times anyway, but especially a good idea till you get this sorted.
Disk warrior can usually fix most directory damage, but it is about $60-something. I’ve never used it myself, but I know people who’ve had pretty bad damage fixed by it. In one case it took over a week to repair everything but fixed something like 60,000 damaged files. The erase/reinstall will also do it, if you really want to go through with it.
Try disk repair first, though, if you haven’t already done that. You need to boot from the cd because disk utility can’t do anything to fix the drive it’s running from.
Douglas,
Have you installed any fonts lately?
Joe
Oh, good point, Joe. I didn’t think of that, but that wouldn’t explain fsck finding unrepairable errors, would it?
Now I feel the game’s afoot, thanks… some questions: first, yes I have booted from CD and run the disk repair from there and there were errors repaired.
Since I am familiar with formatting drive and reinstalling windows, is doing the same for OSX that much different? You aren’t the only ones to speak of it in drastic terms. I know its a hassle but I keep all my documents on an external drive so reinstalling programs is about all I’d need to do, (other than connecting again to my network which I can’t remember how to do right now). Is there some terrible chaallenge to reinstalling?
Since you mentioned fonts it made me think, and sure enough I tried a couple of font utility demos from a CD from a UK MacWorld magazine right before this started. One of them checks fonts and reports errors (but the demo won’t fix the errors) and there were many fonts reported with "incorrect file flags" "bad table data" "old style font resources" "Font ID conflicts" and "Bitmaps missing their postscripts". Could any of these be related?
..is doing the same for OSX that much different?
Well, it’s a lot easier, for one thing, because you don’t have to worry about product activation keys unless you are using Office. It’s just that it’s so rarely necessary to the extent that it is in windows, but it’s certainly no more difficult to do, especially if you have a good backup.
If you really want to do it, I would go ahead and do a zero all data format. You need to have either an OS 9 install cd or at least 10.2.3 on your X install Cd to have that option, though. If all you have is the jaguar cd and then you downloaded the updates you won’t be able to do a zero data. That writes 0s over every block on your drive, so you know for sure that all problems are gone.
It takes quite a while to run from the OS 9 cd–about 6-1/2 hours to zero my 40 gig drive. More recent versions are much faster–the panther cd took less than an hour to do the same thing. Just mentioning that so you won’t panic if you do it with an os 9 cd.
The font utilities are very likely the cause of your trouble, I would say. You need to be pretty careful about third-party font managers in X, because a lot of them mess with things they shouldn’t touch, and some of them are pretty unsure of what they are doing. So yes, I would say it’s really very likely that they are involved in this.
My iMac came with 10.2.8 so let me know how to do it from there please.
Douglas,
Why not try just removing the fonts and font utility that you installed first? This might clear things up allowing you to skip the whole erase and re format routine. Corrupted fonts can wreak havoc on a system, believe you me. I’ve been there.
If it were me I’d remove the fonts that you installed (from the Library folder in your Home folder and the system level Library folder) and the font utility. Then I’d Repair Permissions and re boot.
If you still have problems then it’s probably time to erase and re format. Sometimes it just easier and quicker to do that anyway rather than waste more time diagnosing and fixing things. And as Barb said, it is a whole lot easier to do this with a Mac than it is with windows.
Joe
Boot from the cd, then launch disk utility. Go to the Erase tab, and you should see an options button or maybe a pull-down menu that says "erase options." (Sorry I can’t be more specific, but I’m not sure where they put it when they put in jaguar. In panther it’s a button on the erase page. Find ‘zero all data" or "write zeros", check that, then click "erase."
If Joe is around he may know exactly where it would be on your cd.
Thanks, but regarding fonts, I pulled the utility long ago and I have never installed any fonts (although macromedia or Adobe apps may have). What do I have to leave in the various font folders?, I’ll pull the rest. I have always had funny font problems with iMac, Safari showing greek instead of times or whatever, help screens showing fractions… I just don’t know how to clean up the fonts like in windows where there is only one place to go and 9 to keep.
Don’t pull ANY fonts till you know for sure what’s going on.
What you are describing doesn’t sound like font problems but a bigger system problem. How long have you had this computer and do you have applecare?
After you get going again, never touch the fonts in system/library/fonts no matter how non-essential they seem. There is stuff in there that the os needs to find there even though you never see those fonts at work.
If your font utility demo moved or deleted or altered one of those, it would cause trouble, but if you were seeing strange characters before, you’ve probably had a wonky system from the get-go. Bad factory installation of the system doesn happen.
There are fonts in your library/fonts folder you can remove, but lets get your computer straightened out first.
Also, if you are going to reinstall the system, make sure nothing is connected to your computer except the keyboard and mouse when you run the installer. Disconnect printers, scanners, hubs, etc first.
I may try the archive and install first. is that the equiv. of installing without erasing the HD? I know in windows you can reinstall without formatting but then your apps need reinstalling too because of the registry and such. Is it like that with OSX? Does archive and install save my IE favorites, my network connections and docs? In the process does it tell you how to un-archive the stuff back out?
Log in as a different user first, before you reuinstall the OS. This will narrow it down to a user profile.
Good suggestion, Mark.
douglas, if you still have the same problems with a different user, then try the archive and install. That will give you new system folder but leave all apps and everything else untouched. You just have to copy over a couple of your settings from the old folder when you’re done.
This article is pretty old but still gives a good idea of what you need to do:
<
http://www.macworld.com/2002/10/features/install/>
I made a new user and installed and IT WORKS! But still not on old login. Does that shed light on anything?
The console log for the crashes is below: it mentions looking for plug-ins in a Norton path. Could this be the problem? This path does exist up to the menu app.
Mac OS X Version 10.2.8 (Build 6R73)
Nov 21 14:06:29 Douglas-Reynoldss-Computer /sbin/autodiskmount[198]: disk1s1s2 hfs no no PhotoshopB. Elements 2.0 [not mounted]
2003-11-21 14:06:29.241 SymQuickMenu[537] Looking for plug ins in /Library/Application Support/Norton Solutions Support/SymQuickMenu/SymQuickMenu.app/Contents/PlugIns
prefs written
Nov 21 14:06:29 Douglas-Reynoldss-Computer /sbin/autodiskmount[198]: disk1s1s2 hfs no no PhotoshopB. Elements 2.0 /Volumes/PhotoshopB. Elements 2.0
Nov 21 16:19:10 Douglas-Reynoldss-Computer crashdump: Crash report written to: /Users/doug/Library/Logs/CrashReporter/Photoshop Elements 2.0.crash.log
Oh, maybe there’s an easy solution. Go into your start up/log in items and see if that plug in is listed in there. I know there is a "sym-something" login item for most of the Norton products. Maybe if you can delete it from your list it will fix this. Worth a try.
Did that, also found a lot of Norton stuff left over that I deleted along with this path, but it still crashes, just without that line in the log now. Since it works on the other log in, I guess I’ll use it there until I blunder across something that works… lots of time spent trying to fix this, now I have a work around.
I believe that to really get rid of Norton you must go to their website (I think that’s where it is) and get an uninstaller. It pervades your system much more than normal applications do and you can’t just drag it to the trash.
