finally color adjustments that work

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:20:10 -0500, wrote:

ran across this on itunes under the ‘Adobe Creative Suite Video Podcast’. You want to get the ‘Color correct your image like a pro in Photoshop’ video. It uses curves, but in a way you can’t screw up. Myself I used print screen, and copied the card, and stuck the color card in my photoshop images directory.
Basically what you do is fire up curves with this color card loaded, then set up the 3 eye droppers using the card.

Then with a messed up image, you take the card itself, create a curves layer, and add this cards curves layer to the bad image and it adjusts everything. You can still tweak with curves but very little tweaking is necessary.
Would be nice to find a way to batch use this color correction method. I used it on some really nasty pix, those left in the sun too long and they all came out great.

I believe creating a photo of a color card with the camera you shot the pictures with, is needed for color correct. I would take a photo of the color card before and after the foto shoot depending on how much time the photo shoot took. Light changes during the day.

Maybe I am far off, but is a print screen of color card accurate?

Just wondering. I don’t have a lot of experience with color cards myself… Have to test it out..

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:36:16 -0500, wrote:

Then with a messed up image, you take the card itself, create a curves layer, and add this cards curves layer to the bad image and it adjusts everything. You can still tweak with curves but very little tweaking is necessary.
Would be nice to find a way to batch use this color correction method. I used it on some really nasty pix, those left in the sun too long and they all came out great.

I believe creating a photo of a color card with the camera you shot the pictures with, is needed for color correct. I would take a photo of the color card before and after the foto shoot depending on how much time the photo shoot took. Light changes during the day.
Maybe I am far off, but is a print screen of color card accurate?
Just wondering. I don’t have a lot of experience with color cards myself… Have to test it out..

it worked for me.

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:04:47 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:36:16 -0500, wrote:

Then with a messed up image, you take the card itself, create a curves layer, and add this cards curves layer to the bad image and it adjusts everything. You can still tweak with curves but very little tweaking is necessary.
Would be nice to find a way to batch use this color correction method. I used it on some really nasty pix, those left in the sun too long and they all came out great.

I believe creating a photo of a color card with the camera you shot the pictures with, is needed for color correct. I would take a photo of the color card before and after the foto shoot depending on how much time the photo shoot took. Light changes during the day.
Maybe I am far off, but is a print screen of color card accurate?
Just wondering. I don’t have a lot of experience with color cards myself… Have to test it out..

it worked for me.

This is the answer to both of you. (I have done the same) Depend whether you want true colors or nice colors.
If the answer is (simply) ‘nice colors’, this photo of
a color card is 100%.

http://dave.photos.gb.net/p38699729.html
http://dave.photos.gb.net/p38699732.html
http://dave.photos.gb.net/p49802336.html

Dave wrote:

This is the answer to both of you. (I have done the same) Depend whether you want true colors or nice colors.
If the answer is (simply) ‘nice colors’, this photo of
a color card is 100%.

What is ‘true’ color?

"John J" wrote in message

Dave wrote:

This is the answer to both of you. (I have done the same) Depend whether you want true colors or nice colors.
If the answer is (simply) ‘nice colors’, this photo of
a color card is 100%.

What is ‘true’ color?

Before I can begin to answer that question, I will need to get a very very much more powerful and very very fast computer, and then I probably would not understand the answer.

Roy G

Roy G wrote:

"John J" wrote in message

Dave wrote:

This is the answer to both of you. (I have done the same) Depend whether you want true colors or nice colors.
If the answer is (simply) ‘nice colors’, this photo of
a color card is 100%.

What is ‘true’ color?

Before I can begin to answer that question, I will need to get a very very much more powerful and very very fast computer, and then I probably would not understand the answer.

Nah! All you have to do is lower your expectations a great deal like most people do. I’ve seen more horrible stuff from people who color by the numbers driven by tack-on monitor devices… pathetic, but with all the money they spent they would naturally deny they have less than brilliant outcomes. Sometimes I wonder if they even have eyes.

"John J" wrote in message

Roy G wrote:

"John J" wrote in message

Dave wrote:

This is the answer to both of you. (I have done the same) Depend whether you want true colors or nice colors.
If the answer is (simply) ‘nice colors’, this photo of
a color card is 100%.

What is ‘true’ color?

Before I can begin to answer that question, I will need to get a very very much more powerful and very very fast computer, and then I probably would not understand the answer.

Nah! All you have to do is lower your expectations a great deal like most people do. I’ve seen more horrible stuff from people who color by the numbers driven by tack-on monitor devices… pathetic, but with all the money they spent they would naturally deny they have less than brilliant outcomes. Sometimes I wonder if they even have eyes.

You asked what is "True Color"?

There are as many opinions as there are people on the planet.

If you want an absolute answer, then you might as well have asked what is the meaning of the universe?

Roy G

On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:45:01 -0000, "Roy G"
wrote:

"John J" wrote in message

Dave wrote:

This is the answer to both of you. (I have done the same) Depend whether you want true colors or nice colors.
If the answer is (simply) ‘nice colors’, this photo of
a color card is 100%.

What is ‘true’ color?

Before I can begin to answer that question, I will need to get a very very much more powerful and very very fast computer, and then I probably would not understand the answer.

Roy G

Are you serious when suggesting a scholar in grade 4 with a faster and pore powerful computer than the one in grade 8 have more sense?

If you want an absolute answer, then you might as well have asked what is the meaning of the universe?

That answer is available by pressing F1

—
Bob LaBlawgh
“It’s never too late to have a happy childhood.”

Roy G wrote:

"John J" wrote in message
[…]
You asked what is "True Color"?

There are as many opinions as there are people on the planet.

We probably agree.

There are easy metrics to compare the colors of a print against the subject, and such metrics usually serve as a good base from which to proceed. However I think you and I will agree that most people, myself included, really do not want that ‘original color’ because the print is not the thing photographed, it is its own thing in a separate space, viewed by different people under different conditions.

If you want an absolute answer, then you might as well have asked what is the meaning of the universe?

42! That was easy. 🙂

ran across this on itunes under the ‘Adobe Creative Suite Video Podcast’. You
want to get the ‘Color correct your image like a pro in Photoshop’ video. It
uses curves, but in a way you can’t screw up. Myself I used print screen, and
copied the card, and stuck the color card in my photoshop images directory.

Basically what you do is fire up curves with this color card loaded, then set
up the 3 eye droppers using the card.

Then with a messed up image, you take the card itself, create a curves layer,
and add this cards curves layer to the bad image and it adjusts everything. You
can still tweak with curves but very little tweaking is necessary.
Would be nice to find a way to batch use this color correction method. I used
it on some really nasty pix, those left in the sun too long and they all came
out great.

That might work for some photos, if you’re lucky, but it isn’t very reliable.
You have to shoot the card in the same light your other photos will be shot. Notice that the card and the person are both against a white background. It isn’t explained very well in the video.
Otherwise the adjustments you make with curves to the card will always be the same!
Check out these videos for a better understanding
http://whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/01/

"Fred" wrote:

ran across this on itunes under the ‘Adobe Creative Suite Video Podcast’. You want to get the ‘Color correct your image like a pro in Photoshop’ video. It uses curves, but in a way you can’t screw up. Myself I used print screen, and copied the card, and stuck the color card in my photoshop images directory.

Basically what you do is fire up curves with this color card loaded, then set up the 3 eye droppers using the card.

Then with a messed up image, you take the card itself, create a curves layer, and add this cards curves layer to the bad image and it adjusts everything. You can still tweak with curves but very little tweaking is necessary.
Would be nice to find a way to batch use this color correction method. I used it on some really nasty pix, those left in the sun too long and they all came out great.

That might work for some photos, if you’re lucky, but it isn’t very reliable.
You have to shoot the card in the same light your other photos will be shot. Notice that the card and the person are both against a white background. It isn’t explained very well in the video.
Otherwise the adjustments you make with curves to the card will always be the same!
Check out these videos for a better understanding
http://whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/01/

Again. you are correct about how the WhiteBalnce card works, or it isn’t just "use White Balance" (or Grey Card) like most people say (see below), but how to use is an important part. Yes, I do like the result of using Grey Card, but I don’t use it because I just don’t have time for it and I can get by with careful setting and some Photoshop skill.

I read many times some people misleading other about RAW and WhiteBalnce card like.

– With RAW they just adjust ONE photo then lets the RAW converter auto-adjust the rest (batch converting), and they have RAW Converter replaced Photoshop. IOW, most of us have to spend hours to adjust hundreds of photos when those RAW experts just spend few seconds to adjust one then auto-adjust hundreds of others.

– Same with White Blance Card, some says the similar to RAW Converter above. And this is not just from regular users, but I guess they pass the misleading information because they read from the company selling White Balance Card which may be true on on some cases (if 2 are nearly identical) but not in most cases.

IOW, I would agree with them and say I am wrong *if* hundreds of different photos are identical, else applying the same adjustment to different condition may not get the same result.

All these white filters, colour cards and aids to correct "white balance" might make the manufacturer’s some money but they do nothing for the photographer struggling with colour casts and over or under exposure that simply shouldn’t happen with the state of today’s technology,
Even an overcast day where UV light reflecting off clouds creates a grey cast to pictures, cannot easily be fixed, even with a healthy dose of UV filters. How then is photoshop’s curves going to "fix" the white balance?

If you shoot a photo with a calibrated greycard in the picture, that greycard reflects the light of the moment.
PS ‘ curves has a grey eyedropper, you click on the greycard in the picture and you’re done.
Works fabulous!
If you have multiple images with the same light, you save the curve preset and apply it to all photos.
ACR/Lightroom works almost the same, except there you have a dedicated whitebalance dropper and the ability to synchronize all photos.

Over/under exposure is a different matter and usually a user error.

"Joel" wrote in message

"Fred" wrote:

ran across this on itunes under the ‘Adobe Creative Suite Video Podcast’.
You want to get the ‘Color correct your image like a pro in Photoshop’ video.
It uses curves, but in a way you can’t screw up. Myself I used print screen,
and copied the card, and stuck the color card in my photoshop images directory.

Basically what you do is fire up curves with this color card loaded, then
set up the 3 eye droppers using the card.

Then with a messed up image, you take the card itself, create a curves layer, and add this cards curves layer to the bad image and it adjusts everything. You can still tweak with curves but very little tweaking is necessary.

Would be nice to find a way to batch use this color correction method. I
used it on some really nasty pix, those left in the sun too long and they all
came out great.

That might work for some photos, if you’re lucky, but it isn’t very reliable.
You have to shoot the card in the same light your other photos will be shot.
Notice that the card and the person are both against a white background. It isn’t explained very well in the video.
Otherwise the adjustments you make with curves to the card will always be the same!
Check out these videos for a better understanding
http://whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/01/

Again. you are correct about how the WhiteBalnce card works, or it isn’t just "use White Balance" (or Grey Card) like most people say (see below), but how to use is an important part. Yes, I do like the result of using Grey Card, but I don’t use it because I just don’t have time for it and I can get by with careful setting and some Photoshop skill.
I read many times some people misleading other about RAW and WhiteBalnce card like.

– With RAW they just adjust ONE photo then lets the RAW converter auto-adjust the rest (batch converting), and they have RAW Converter replaced Photoshop. IOW, most of us have to spend hours to adjust hundreds
of photos when those RAW experts just spend few seconds to adjust one then auto-adjust hundreds of others.

– Same with White Blance Card, some says the similar to RAW Converter above.
And this is not just from regular users, but I guess they pass the misleading information because they read from the company selling White Balance Card which may be true on on some cases (if 2 are nearly identical)
but not in most cases.

IOW, I would agree with them and say I am wrong *if* hundreds of different photos are identical, else applying the same adjustment to different condition may not get the same result.

An oddity in exposures that has existed since 1976 when I processed (and printed) 16 films a day with an old "KISS" processor and balanced every one by eye… Is the way in which auto exposure cameras never get the exposure right in every shot.

The same thing applies to a lesser extent with auto white balance. I used to do a "black balance" on the base of a film for "true colour" and then adjust the the exposure of each frame. This way I ended up with a bunch of prints in the colour the film said it should be.

All these white filters, colour cards and aids to correct "white balance" might make the manufacturer’s some money but they do nothing for the photographer struggling with colour casts and over or under exposure that simply shouldn’t happen with the state of today’s technology,

Even an overcast day where UV light reflecting off clouds creates a grey cast to pictures, cannot easily be fixed, even with a healthy dose of UV filters. How then is photoshop’s curves going to "fix" the white balance?

"Gemini" wrote:

<snip>

Notice that the card and the person are both against a white background. It isn’t explained very well in the video.
Otherwise the adjustments you make with curves to the card will always be the same!
Check out these videos for a better understanding
http://whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/01/

Again. you are correct about how the WhiteBalnce card works, or it isn’t just "use White Balance" (or Grey Card) like most people say (see below), but how to use is an important part. Yes, I do like the result of using Grey Card, but I don’t use it because I just don’t have time for it and I can get by with careful setting and some Photoshop skill.
I read many times some people misleading other about RAW and WhiteBalnce card like.

– With RAW they just adjust ONE photo then lets the RAW converter auto-adjust the rest (batch converting), and they have RAW Converter replaced Photoshop. IOW, most of us have to spend hours to adjust hundreds
of photos when those RAW experts just spend few seconds to adjust one then auto-adjust hundreds of others.

– Same with White Blance Card, some says the similar to RAW Converter above.
And this is not just from regular users, but I guess they pass the misleading information because they read from the company selling White Balance Card which may be true on on some cases (if 2 are nearly identical)
but not in most cases.

IOW, I would agree with them and say I am wrong *if* hundreds of different photos are identical, else applying the same adjustment to different condition may not get the same result.

An oddity in exposures that has existed since 1976 when I processed (and printed) 16 films a day with an old "KISS" processor and balanced every one by eye… Is the way in which auto exposure cameras never get the exposure right in every shot.

The same thing applies to a lesser extent with auto white balance. I used to do a "black balance" on the base of a film for "true colour" and then adjust the the exposure of each frame. This way I ended up with a bunch of prints in the colour the film said it should be.

All these white filters, colour cards and aids to correct "white balance" might make the manufacturer’s some money but they do nothing for the photographer struggling with colour casts and over or under exposure that simply shouldn’t happen with the state of today’s technology,
Even an overcast day where UV light reflecting off clouds creates a grey cast to pictures, cannot easily be fixed, even with a healthy dose of UV filters. How then is photoshop’s curves going to "fix" the white balance?

I too have a $49 + S/H White-Balance card(s) I bought many years ago, and still can’t find a chance to "use once correct hundreds..". And I too still have to study and correct each individual manually.

Yes, I quite often like the result of using white-balance card, but I just can’t find time to use on every single shot. It may be ok to use in studio since the lighting and subject often won’t change, but outside of studio or different subject then it’s way too much for me.

And if I photograph in studio then I don’t need white-blance card. Or I been photographing indoor for too long to have problem, but may be outdoor as I am not very good with outdoor (or I often don’t like the result of outdoor).

"Joel" wrote in message

"Gemini" wrote:

<snip>

Notice that the card and the person are both against a white background.
It isn’t explained very well in the video.
Otherwise the adjustments you make with curves to the card will always be
the same!
Check out these videos for a better understanding
http://whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/01/

Again. you are correct about how the WhiteBalnce card works, or it isn’t
just "use White Balance" (or Grey Card) like most people say (see below),
but how to use is an important part. Yes, I do like the result of using
Grey Card, but I don’t use it because I just don’t have time for it and I
can get by with careful setting and some Photoshop skill.
I read many times some people misleading other about RAW and WhiteBalnce
card like.

– With RAW they just adjust ONE photo then lets the RAW converter auto-adjust the rest (batch converting), and they have RAW Converter replaced Photoshop. IOW, most of us have to spend hours to adjust hundreds
of photos when those RAW experts just spend few seconds to adjust one then
auto-adjust hundreds of others.

– Same with White Blance Card, some says the similar to RAW Converter above.
And this is not just from regular users, but I guess they pass the misleading information because they read from the company selling White Balance Card which may be true on on some cases (if 2 are nearly identical)
but not in most cases.

IOW, I would agree with them and say I am wrong *if* hundreds of different
photos are identical, else applying the same adjustment to different condition may not get the same result.

An oddity in exposures that has existed since 1976 when I processed (and printed) 16 films a day with an old "KISS" processor and balanced every one
by eye… Is the way in which auto exposure cameras never get the exposure
right in every shot.

The same thing applies to a lesser extent with auto white balance. I used to
do a "black balance" on the base of a film for "true colour" and then adjust
the the exposure of each frame. This way I ended up with a bunch of prints
in the colour the film said it should be.

All these white filters, colour cards and aids to correct "white balance" might make the manufacturer’s some money but they do nothing for the photographer struggling with colour casts and over or under exposure that simply shouldn’t happen with the state of today’s technology,
Even an overcast day where UV light reflecting off clouds creates a grey cast to pictures, cannot easily be fixed, even with a healthy dose of UV filters. How then is photoshop’s curves going to "fix" the white balance?

I too have a $49 + S/H White-Balance card(s) I bought many years ago, and still can’t find a chance to "use once correct hundreds..". And I too still
have to study and correct each individual manually.

Yes, I quite often like the result of using white-balance card, but I just can’t find time to use on every single shot. It may be ok to use in studio
since the lighting and subject often won’t change, but outside of studio or
different subject then it’s way too much for me.

And if I photograph in studio then I don’t need white-blance card. Or I been photographing indoor for too long to have problem, but may be outdoor as I am not very good with outdoor (or I often don’t like the result of outdoor).

I process maybe 600 photos a week (wedding photography) and I can tell anyone interested that Joel is 100% right here. Even the influence of a red dress will alter the overall white balance of a scene. The next one shot against blue water will be totally different. No human error here, just camera engineering poorly developed.

"Gemini" wrote:

"Joel" wrote in message

"Gemini" wrote:

<snip>

Notice that the card and the person are both against a white background.
It isn’t explained very well in the video.
Otherwise the adjustments you make with curves to the card will always be
the same!
Check out these videos for a better understanding
http://whibalhost.com/_Tutorials/WhiBal/01/

Again. you are correct about how the WhiteBalnce card works, or it isn’t
just "use White Balance" (or Grey Card) like most people say (see below),
but how to use is an important part. Yes, I do like the result of using
Grey Card, but I don’t use it because I just don’t have time for it and I
can get by with careful setting and some Photoshop skill.
I read many times some people misleading other about RAW and WhiteBalnce
card like.

– With RAW they just adjust ONE photo then lets the RAW converter auto-adjust the rest (batch converting), and they have RAW Converter replaced Photoshop. IOW, most of us have to spend hours to adjust hundreds
of photos when those RAW experts just spend few seconds to adjust one then
auto-adjust hundreds of others.

– Same with White Blance Card, some says the similar to RAW Converter above.
And this is not just from regular users, but I guess they pass the misleading information because they read from the company selling White Balance Card which may be true on on some cases (if 2 are nearly identical)
but not in most cases.

IOW, I would agree with them and say I am wrong *if* hundreds of different
photos are identical, else applying the same adjustment to different condition may not get the same result.

An oddity in exposures that has existed since 1976 when I processed (and printed) 16 films a day with an old "KISS" processor and balanced every one
by eye… Is the way in which auto exposure cameras never get the exposure
right in every shot.

The same thing applies to a lesser extent with auto white balance. I used to
do a "black balance" on the base of a film for "true colour" and then adjust
the the exposure of each frame. This way I ended up with a bunch of prints
in the colour the film said it should be.

All these white filters, colour cards and aids to correct "white balance" might make the manufacturer’s some money but they do nothing for the photographer struggling with colour casts and over or under exposure that simply shouldn’t happen with the state of today’s technology,
Even an overcast day where UV light reflecting off clouds creates a grey cast to pictures, cannot easily be fixed, even with a healthy dose of UV filters. How then is photoshop’s curves going to "fix" the white balance?

I too have a $49 + S/H White-Balance card(s) I bought many years ago, and still can’t find a chance to "use once correct hundreds..". And I too still
have to study and correct each individual manually.

Yes, I quite often like the result of using white-balance card, but I just can’t find time to use on every single shot. It may be ok to use in studio
since the lighting and subject often won’t change, but outside of studio or
different subject then it’s way too much for me.

And if I photograph in studio then I don’t need white-blance card. Or I been photographing indoor for too long to have problem, but may be outdoor as I am not very good with outdoor (or I often don’t like the result of outdoor).

I process maybe 600 photos a week (wedding photography) and I can tell anyone interested that Joel is 100% right here. Even the influence of a red dress will alter the overall white balance of a scene. The next one shot against blue water will be totally different. No human error here, just camera engineering poorly developed.

I am glad I don’t have to fight this misleading battle alone. The problem we have that too many people READ some misleading books/articles/ads then spreading the wrong information around, then others read it and spread the wrong information even wider.

And I also glad you mention the background, the color of clothing etc. there are few of many small things can make the difference and most white-balance companies don’t want to mention about it.