I’m going to watch this discussion Andrew! What I’ve read so far indicates the DVD+ will probably come out on top, largely because it’s the format supported by the Win operating systems. I’m not quite ready to buy yet, but right now I’m leaning toward a burner that will write either + or – format. My understanding is that one (but I can’t remember which without my cheat sheet) produces better quality data DVDs and the other produces better video DVDs.
Now let’s see what people have to say who might actually know something about this subject. 🙂
Today, I just ordered a Pioneer DVR-105 "Superdrive" to put in my Mac. It cost $185 and supports DVD-R & DVD-RW. For me it didn’t matter what format it supports because my main concern was that it worked with iDVD. Having said that, there are manufactuer’s out there that are making DVD drives that support both. I suspect that most drives and player’s will be supporting both in the not too distant future, but that’s just my hunch.
Andrew, I don’t think you’ll run into the same problem as you had with Betamax. Check out OWC’s <
http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Page.cfm?Parent=457&Ti tle=DVD&Template=> DVD drive offerings and you’ll see that with the exception of the drive I bought, they all support both +/-. Besides, if CD drive prices are any indication even if you did buy a drive that turned out to be obsolete, you’ll probably be able to pick up your next one at a fraction of the price you pay today. Just my opinion of course.
Joe
Yes, I know Macs still have that limitation, which is another reason why I haven’t bought myself a DVD burner yet. That and the fact I’ve decided I’m not even going to try burning with the computer I have now – generating one DVD could become a new career. I’ve been looking at them for my son, though, because he’s the one who has the video camera. Prices don’t seem to be coming down because they keep expanding the capabilities of the burners, either in terms of versatility or speed. If I was going to buy one right now, I think I’d go with one that would do both + and -.
Wait a bit until a universal machine is marketed, capable of playing all formats. It won’t be long.
"Andrew Turek" wrote in message
I guess the people who read this forum will be able to help with this one.
Is there any sense of which format is going to win in the DVD recorder
war? I am thinking of buying one and having many years ago bought a Betamax VCR I don’t want to get it wrong again. It is probably the US market which will decide which wins so any hints from there will be particularly helpful.
Thanks, all.
Andrew
"Beth Haney" wrote in message
[…] If I was going to buy one right now, I think I’d go with one that
would do both + and -.
Good choice. 🙂
Joe’s message pretty much sums it up. It’s unclear that there ever WILL be a "winning" format, the way there was in the VHS/Betamax race. With the video tapes, the two formats were completely incompatible. But with DVD, you now have DVD drives and players that will read either format. Because the form factor is identical between the two, there’s no reason for consumers to choose.
Of course, it may well happen. But going forward, it’s going to be a non-issue, since either format is going to work equally well on pretty much any new DVD hardware. So, like Joe says…get a drive that does both. Most of the time, the choice of what format to use will be based on what media you are able to get for the least money. Occasionally, you’ll want to be compatible on a specific drive/player and then you’ll have the flexibility to use whichever format works on that drive or player.
By the way, Andrew…I hope you didn’t consider your puchase of the Betamax VCR a complete loss. At least you got to enjoy superior video reproduction on the shows you taped while you had it. 🙂
Pete
I regard Betamax/VHS as I do WordPerfect/Word; the better hyped but technically poorer format won. What concerns me is that if a few years down the line DVD recorders are as common as VCR’s are now (and you can get a good VCR for $70-equivalent here in England, I expect less in the USA) I don’t want to find that I can’t lend and borrow discs freely with other owners because I chose wrong. So I guess I will wait and see!
Andrew.
"Andrew Turek" wrote in message
I regard Betamax/VHS as I do WordPerfect/Word;
the better hyped but technically poorer format won.
First of all, poor analogy. Beta vs VHS has to do with a basic signal reproduction technology, trivial to measure the performance of and evaluate the relative merits. WordPerfect vs Word has as much to do with religion (like Mac vs Windows) as it does with any fundamental technical differences.
What concerns me is that if a few years down the line
DVD recorders are as common as VCR’s are now (and
you can get a good VCR for $70-equivalent here in England, I expect less in the USA) I don’t want to find that I can’t lend and borrow discs freely with other owners because I chose wrong. So I guess I will wait and see!
Secondly, you are missing the point, one that I made in my previous message on this topic. That is, consumers don’t have to choose. Almost no one is making a DVD player today that can’t read both formats, and tomorrow no one will be doing so. You won’t find that you can’t lend and borrow discs freely, because all players will support all formats. The same thing is true for DVD drives in computers. Even a DVD drive that can’t burn +R still is likely to be able to read it.
Wait and see if you like. It’s already happening, just the way I’m saying it is.
Pete
You may be right, Pete, but here there are machines on the market which don’t support both. If in the end all machines do, that’s fine!
As for Word/WP, you’re dead right, it is religion. And I am a WordPerfectionist!
Update on Joe’s new DVD burner.
Don’t ask me why, but I decided to spend an extra $50 to get the new Pioneer DVR-106 which is compatible with and can burn CD’s, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R and DVD+RW. Literally 4 minutes (yes I timed myself) after I got the thing, I had it installed, up and running and burning CD’s, DVD-R’s and DVD-RW’s (with Toast as iDVD won’t write to a RW disk). Then I got a little curious about the + capabilities of my DVD burner so headed over to Apple and searched the discussion boards. I figured someone must have figured out a work around to the whole +R/Mac thing and I was right. I found a link to a plug-in over at XLR8YourMac which, after I installed it, enabled me to burn DVD+R as well as the +RW disks. Cool! Now if I can only figure out why I want to burn to +R over -R I’ll be all set. 😉
Oh baby, 4.7 gigs of disk! Gives me goosebumps just thinking about all the stuff I can burn to DVD. 😉
Joe
There are a number of reasons you’d want to burn +R over -R:
1. DVD-R is well known to have compatibility problems when written at speeds greater than 1x (check out Apple’s DVD Studio Pro forums)
2. Some DVD+R drives have a "compatibility bit setting" that fool older players into thinking they’re replicated DVD-ROM (DVD-Video) discs instead of recordable (DVD-R, DVD+R) discs. This leads to much higher compatibility.
3. At least as of last year, DVD+R/RW drives required a much shorter erasing/formatting and finalization time (although newer DVD-R/RW drives might have fixed this). A short video that burns in 5 minutes on my DVD+R drive takes over 15 minutes on my SuperDrive (Pioneer A04 DVD-R/RW).
4. New DVD+R drives just announced burn at 8x, and 4x DVD+RW is coming soon.
Are we at cross-purposes here? The new electric toy I was talking about is the thing whch replaces a VCR and records TV programmes (as we spell it here!) onto DVD’s. Can I please submit my original question with that clarification?
Andrew
Thanks, Paul. I am very tempted!
Andrew.
Andrew, I, for one, didn’t realize you were talking about a replacement for a VCR, so I apologize for getting this thread off on the wrong track. I thought you were talking about a DVD burner for your computer. Duh. I’m sorry. I haven’t moved up far enough in the "technology chain" to think about replacing the VCR yet! I’ve got one I’m still trying to figure out how to set the time on. 🙂 I’ll go away now.
Well, Beth, your answers were fine. No need to slink away with your tail between your legs! 🙂
It’s the same basic issues. The set-top DVD-recorder (VCR replacements) use the same drives internally as the PC/Mac drives.
So the issues are all the same: recording speed, formatting/finalization speed, compatibility bit settings (on the Philips DVD+R/RW set top recorder you can set the compatibility bit–no PC needed).
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 05:43:29 -0700, "Andrew Turek" wrote:
Are we at cross-purposes here? The new electric toy I was talking about is the thing whch replaces a VCR and records TV programmes (as we spell it here!) onto DVD’s. Can I please submit my original question with that clarification?
For the "what it’s worth department", I just purchased a Panasonic DMR-E50 video recorder. The unit lets me record TV programs. If you use the proper disc (DVD ROM) you can start to record a program, and half way through the recording, start viewing the first part.
After using a VCR, this taks a bit of getting used to. It can record up to 6 hours. Picture quality is excellent….as it should be with DVD.
It does NOT connect to a telephone line. There are unitis available here in the USA (and Europe??) that down load program schedules, and allow you to search for programs. Nice. But I hate to pay a monthly fee
Info on the unit can be found at
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Mode lDetail?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&modelNo=DMR-E5 0S I would assume that a model with European Broadcast standards would be available for you.
I’m still learning how to use all the features. But if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Thank you for your kind words, Lou. 🙂
Andrew and others,
I have just gotten into burning DVD’s in the past few months, and am having a ball with no only Stills, but converting all my old camcorder tapes to DVD. I too had the concern about formats and took forever to decide to make the jump because of this. What I did was buy the Sony DRU-500A. This model burner which is external btw, burns to all formats. The only problem with buying a burner just for your particular format is if you wish to make a copy for someone else… will their machine play it?
Just my opinion, but I love mine…..
Bruce
Well, boys and girls, I did it, I bought the Sony machine which takes three out of the four formats, all except DVD+R, and very impressive it is too. It’s a bit more complicated to use than a VCR but the quality of picture is substantially better, and you can split recordings into scenes, give them names, and so on. If you have stock in a company which makes videotape now is the time to dump it because it has as much future as photographic film!
Thanks for letting us know what you decided, Andrew. I was just telling hubby a day or two ago that it was time for us to consider moving into the 2000s. 🙂
I’m going to have to do more research, but there is something I’m not understanding. Bruce said his Sony would handle all formats, and Andrew says his will do three out of four. Is this because they’re different Sony models? I thought DVD+R was one of the "standards" Microsoft is plugging. Or have I got this confused with something closely related but not the same?
Beth,
Microsoft did jump on the + media bandwagon, of which +R belongs. Why Andrew’s machine doesn’t support +R but does +RW, I have no idea.
Joe
Andrew
Where did you get it from ?
If you don’t mind.
Paul
Paul: I bought it from an outfit called Electro Centre (0121-554 1878). They took my order at 3 p.m. on a Friday and it reached me on Monday at 10 a.m.
They sold it me as a multi-regional but it only played "foreign" DVDs in monochrome. I consulted Tridek (0117 904 6733, www.multi-region.co.uk) who sorted me out and whom I cannot recommend too highly. UK readers please note: if you consider it your right to bring in US DVD’s and play them here their website is worth consulting. They can either take your player in and get it back to you or in some cases send you, for a modest fee, a one-use remote which does the job.
However, in this case they were able to tell me what to do by email and if anyone has the same problem: just change the Video output in Settings to the choice on the bottom of the screen and the job is done.
That Sony should support 4 out of 5 standards, but those would be DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, and DVD+RW.
The only format it doesn’t support (at least in the USA) is DVD-RAM.
While being at it, I did try different disc brands and Maxell came up to be more compatible with my devices (Sony DVD player, LG DVD-ROM drive) than my other choices. My burner is a HP. Of course, this is not a scientific test 🙂
Ray
This subject came up not long ago on a Mac forum I frequent, and Maxell was also most compatible with the Pioneer drives in Macs, along with Apple brand. Since I don’t have a burner, I haven’t done any experimenting on my own. Someday. 🙂
They’re real cheap now. Plextor just came out with an 8x DVD+R burner for $209. And they’re supported in OS X 10.3 Panther now.
