If I’m understanding the question correctly, Elements can’t do what you’d like it to, Tony. There are some Batch functions in Elements, but the ability to batch rotate isn’t one of them. There is a rotation function in Elements that will straighten those images that are just slightly off, but it has to be done on each image manually – just like you’re having to do now, although it does work quite well. And, Elements will run Actions, but they can’t be written.
This software was written for consumers and a few pros who don’t need the advanced features of full Photoshop. You’re asking a bit much from a $50 program! Of course, people who know their way around inside the "guts" of Photoshop might be able to create an Action to do what you want, but relying on the ability to find somebody who could/would do that would be pretty risky.
Hmm… I’m very grateful for your input Byron and Beth. Since I’ve never used PSE, I have no idea of its limitations. Based on the two answers above, things don’t look so good, but for the sake of clarification, I’m going to try and confirm a couple of things.
First, I had read that PSE could run Actions. Now I’m getting the picture that it can run them but not create them. Thus one would need a third party tool, or use actions created in Photoshop.
In the latter scenario, since the "Straighten" feature doesn’t exist in Photoshop, you can’t write that action in Photoshop, ergo, you cannot automate that feature.
Of course, people who know their way around inside the "guts" of Photoshop might be able to create an Action to do what you want, but relying on the ability to find somebody who could/would do that would be pretty risky
I’m one of them <grin>. I create actions and batch process approximately 3,000 images per day, 7 days a week. In photoshop, you can create an Action to automatically perform a task – then, you can have that task run on all open images, or run on an entire folder of images. You hit "go" and go get some coffee.
The thing is, I have no working experience with PSE, so I am completely and utterly unaware of its features and limitations, which is why I posted here. I understand that it has a "gussied up" interface and many of the features that exist in PS don’t exist in PSE.
There is a feature request forum for Photoshop, and I’ve had conversations with some of the program designers about an Auto Deskew feature. Photoshop 8 is going to be released, probably within the next 45 days, so I’ll be watching to see if the feature is incorporated, but as a backup, I wanted to find out if Elements could do it.
I mean, they already have built the feature, so it doesn’t seem to me to be a great leap of imagination that porting it over to PS should be easy – IF they do it.
But as I understand it now, PSE doesn’t really accommodate automation very well. That is, I’d be willing to bet there isn’t a Batch feature, since Actions aren’t built into it.
That in and of itself makes my hopes of using PSE for a portion of our workflow, not likely.
Sigh. Thanks folks. I’m grateful for your time and information.
Peace,
Tony
"There is a rotation function in Elements that will straighten those images that are just slightly off, but it has to be done on each image manually…"
You’re the one who said Straighten didn’t exist in Elements. I said it did. 🙂 Image>Rotate>Straighten and Crop, or Image>Rotate>Straighten
What I said was that it wasn’t available through Batch processing. So, since it’s there, you might be able to write an Action for it, given that you’ve got that expertise, and Elements has the PS 7.0 engine.
Elements is awfully cheap compared to full PS. Why not just download the free demo, take a look at it, and then try your hand at getting creative?
You’re the one who said Straighten didn’t exist in Elements
Uhm, not sure where I said that. My entire post has been about three basic issues: Does it exist in Elements (confirmed), How well does it work (not explored fully), can it be automated in Elements(no).
Not sure where the disconnect on that issue is.
So, since it’s there, you might be able to write an Action for it,
What I’ve gathered from this thread is that one would have to write the action in Photoshop proper. The feature (Straighten) does not exist in Photoshop proper (through v7) so an action cannot be written for it there. If there’s an alternative, allowing me to write actions that can be used in Elements, then that’d be great. I’m not aware of any.
In addition, in the automation process, I am making a logical leap that if actions aren’t a part of the Elements package natively, then it would stand to reason that the Batch feature of photoshop doesn’t exist in Elements – they kind of go hand in hand. Photoshop has a feature whereby one can create an action, then have that action run on an entire folder of images.
Say you wanted to resize an entire folder of images to 50% of their current size. You create an action to do one, then run that action under a Batch and it will process the entire folder of images.
So even if I were able to create an action, through some third party, it doesn’t appear that I can process a boatload of images anyway…
Why not just download the free demo, take a look at it, and then try your hand at getting creative?
With all due respect, and gratitude for the replies I’ve gotten here, the whole point of this thread was to save the time to do just that, and find out from the users.
As far as the idea of trying my "hand at getting creative" <chuckle> well, my knowledge and creativity are a work in progress. You might bounce over to the regular Photoshop Windows forum and do a search on my name. Appreciate the sentiment though<smile>.
Peace,
Tony
Tony, you’re right; I misread your post. I’m so used to people using "Elements" and "Photoshop" somewhat interchangeably (right, wrong, or otherwise) that I mentally inserted reference to the wrong piece of software in that sentence. Maybe if I had ever used full Photoshop my brain would have snapped to attention and realized what you were actually saying.
Oh, well. That’s what happens when I try to cover too many things at once. Maybe in PS 8.0 and Elements 3.0 Adobe will give application a little more flexibility.
Thanks for the clarification Beth. It’s an easy thing to do when you hang out in a particular forum for a while.
Thanks again for all the help and insight.
Peace,
Tony
BETH,
I’ve been reading this thread about Batching and if I am correct PSA has that feature. As for straightening, I do that regularly and even get down to .25 with good results. Tell me this though; how can he or anyone do ‘Batch’ straightening when each picture has its own amount? I guess you do all the .25s then the .50s etc.
that’d be tedious.
Marty
To confirm/clarify what everyone else has said – if Photoshop can do something in an action it’s sometimes possible to write an action that Elements can play (either with Richard Lynch’s free action player or Ling Nero’s snap actions – the latter has a better selection of free actions pre-installed, but I prefer Richard’s interface for adding my own actions)- even if Elements on the surface can’t do it…..(that’ s how the add on tools for Elements that give curves, channel mixer, etc work). It is not possible to write an action to do something that PS full version can’t do, but Elements can.
If you can write an Elements playable action then it is possible to set it up to batch in Elements, (again you need the full version of PS to modify the batch action that Elements uses).
Usually I find the effort needed to construct the actions for Elements not worth the time – my workflow doesn’t have the large volumes and doesn’t usually require the same thing on each picture. The only one I use regularly is Ling Nero’s Elements version of Mathias Vejerslev’s Denoise Deluxe action (Available from Ling Nero’s site along with her action player and all sorts of other action toys
<
http://www.geocities.com/rnlnero/PE2stuff2.html> ) I haven’t bothered to batch it, as it takes so long to run on one file in the first place on my machine!
Susan S.
What is PSA? <pant pant>
Tell me this though; how can he or anyone do ‘Batch’ straightening when each picture has its own amount?
I presume that Image>Rotate>Straighten is a feature/function that evaluates each image and will automatically straighten it. It can’t be perfect, depending on image content, but I’m not worried about that at this juncture. That’s when I d/l the trial version and test it out.
So if it’s true that it does evaluate the image and automatically straighten it, then it’s easy to automate – that is, if PSE were able to do batching.
In Photoshop proper, we do this kind of thing all the time – it’s like setting the levels using Auto Levels. You can use Auto Levels on thousands of images at a time (and we do).
On the other hand, if Image>Rotate>Straighten requires user input, then it’s not what I’m looking for at all.
Wait – Susan. Are you saying that one CAN batch in PSE? That’s the critical factor for me.
In essence, I’m looking for a way to use that Straighten feature on thousands of images per day.
Is it possible?
Tony – I’m afraid not possible in this case. In Elements with a free add-on courtesy of Richard Lynch you can batch anything that you can write an action to do. As photoshop doesn’t have this command, you can’t write the action to do it. So you are stuck.
The straighten and straighten and crop commands are fully automatic – no user intervention required. But I don’t suppose that you really want to hit the command 3000 times a day! I’m surprised it’s not in the full version. I didn’t realise that (perhaps the pros are expected to be able to put things onto the scanner straight….!)
susan
perhaps the pros are expected to be able to put things onto the scanner straight
No, they’re expected to use the Measure Tool followed by Image|Rotate|Arbitrary. So you click on the Measure tool, measure some object that should be straight, then create an action that rotates it based on that value. Try that 3,000 times a day and you’ll see why I want to batch it <grin>.
Thanks for the clarification. I’ll just have to wait and see if it’s released in PS8 – I promised one of the program designers a case of VERY expensive tequila for the feature. We’ll see eh?
Peace,
Tony
Susan, full Photoshop has a nice feature that allows you to transform perspective when cropping – great for that keystoning which wide angles lenses cause. But alas….no auto straighten and crop.
As an engineer, I would probably look ‘upstream’ in Tony’s process to see what the heck is going wrong to create 3000 images a day that need to be straightened!
🙂
Chuck
Chuck, that was on my mind from the start as well 😉
Tony, don’t be mad at me…it was just a thought.
I would probably look ‘upstream’ in Tony’s process to see what the heck is going wrong to create 3000 images a day that need to be straightened!
Nothing is wrong. It’s the nature of the beast.
The issue is the digitization process. We digitize oversized, bound material via two different technologies: planetary cameras and tabloid scanners. Placement is critical when using the scanners. In addition, since it’s bound material, it is not infrequent when the material is not "true" in the binding, resulting in skew.
As I said, the degree of rotation is between 0.07 and 0.5 degrees. That may sound excessive to you, but not to us, with our experience with this type of material.
So there are technical challenges with the source material that requires straightening. If you’ve ever done 10 bound 300-page volumes in a day, you’d have an appreciation for it.
Not mad, just a different paradigm <grin>.
Tony, thanks for the explanation – makesa lot of sense now. I’ll join you in hoping for ‘straighten and crop’ in PS8 and/or actions in PE3!
🙂
Chuck
