smoothing, email ,etc.

P
Posted By
Phosphor
Aug 6, 2003
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93
Replies
2
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Closed
Can someone please help me help Ernie here. I have not been able to explain things so that he’s getting what I say. Here’s my last email from him:

Resampling is BAD — the reason it is bad is that pixels are lost and quality goes down. You NEVER want to do this with a photo file version you are going to print, as you have pointed out. But pixels are data points, and to get the file size down for e-mailing some pixels have to go. This is resampling as I understand resampling. Some algorithm must choose which pixels are saved, and which pixels are lost, or new points must be created that is some sort of average in the matrix. This is smoothing, I think. The algorithms can differ, from one program to another for this smoothing.

Does this make sense? Everything I have read leads me to this conclusion. I have seen this discussed by the "all knowing" F Shippey (or is it "know it all"?). When you raise the resolution, and do no resampling, the image size is reduced to more printable size, but no pixels are lost — in other words the grid is more densely populated by data points). If you, on the other hand, were to change the dimension from say 27 inches by 36 inches (as seen on many digital cameras) to 8 inches by 10.667 inches (same proportions) and allowed resampling to take place, then pixels (and quality) would be lost.

Thanks

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CS
Chuck Snyder
Aug 6, 2003
Barb, the value judgment of resampling being ‘bad’ has been debated regularly, as you know, and I’ve always been one of those who felt that any upsampling (adding pixels) is bad and should be avoided. However, our expert professional photographer, Leen Koper, has reported on the great success he has achieved in making megaprints by a highly rigorous upsampling regimen. So I guess it’s a matter of what you’re starting with and what your endpoint is. The computer sees nothing but pixels, so the inches are just a reference for printing. If I have an image that’s 3000 pixels by 2000 pixels (starting point) and I need to wind up with an image that will fit on by screen that’s, say 800 pixels by 533 pixels (endpoint), I’ve got to ditch a bunch of pixels – that’s resampling/downsampling; no choice, gotta do it. If, on the other hand I have a 3000 pixels by 2000 pixels image (starting point) and I need to make a print that’s 200 pixels per inch and 30 inches by 20 inches (endpoint), I’m going to have to add pixels because I need 6000 pixels by 4000 pixels to give me that 200 ppi resolution that’s my minimum for printing (could have used 300 ppi, but the math is tougher…!) – that would be resampling/upsampling. Ideally, I would print that 3000 pixels by 2000 pixels as a 15 inch by 10 inch at 200 ppi; that would involve no resampling.

The key is to think in terms of pixel dimensions, then switch to linear dimensions only when faced with printing.

Chuck
CS
carl sutherland
Aug 8, 2003
Barbara and Chuck,

I am reluctant to write as I view both of you my mentors, but when communication problems exist, sometimes another view can clarify things. If I understand Ernie’s problem, I believe he is objecting in any reduction in file size and /or pixel numbers as he will lose data. I think he is right!

I would discourage him from using the term "smoothing" as that is not an accepted term with a fairly uniform definition. Coining of new words and phrases should be left to the experts for new situations. Beginners need to learn the accepted language.

So there he is. If he is a purist and will not give up any info, let him deal with those problems. I can relate as I have had my stubborn spells of ideological purity until practical reality beats my head in. When the problems of long transmission times and pixel numbers too large to view without scrolling become too much, he will seek the solutions of which we know "save for web" works so well. He can save a PSD of the original for print work or enlarging, and learn that a monitor pixel gives much more information than a pixel of print.

This may be totally off base. Please let us know how it goes.

Carl

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