Just how serious is it in here?

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" scribbled:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

And have you read the manual? Quite a few of the questions that get asked ARE answered in Photoshop’s quite comprehensive user guide or can be found in minutes using Google. So the conclusion that’s often drawn is pure laziness or someone with a pirated copy that’s missing the help file. The rule of thumb should always be; "Try helping yourself before asking for help." for any application. You’d think that anyone who’d shell out hundreds of dollars for an application would at least glance at the user manual once or twice. As for the obvious pirates, they deserve no help.

Waterspider wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

Hi Waterspider.
Unfortunately, in every newsgroup, you’ll get a few assholes who feel that knowledge is power, and who feel it’s their duty to belittle and mock those who would dare to ask a question.
Most of the time, these people don’t actually know the anser and they’re just using bravado to hide their ignorance.

It’s been my experience that most of the folks in this group are helpfull. Some are playfully sarcastic with it, but more often than not, there’s no real malice intended. Just good natured banter.
I know I always try to jump in with an answer to help out if I (a) know the answer, and (b) no-one else has gotten in there before me.

I think I’m trying to say that you shouldn’t be intimidated and put off joining in. On the whole this is a fun and deeply informative newsgroup where you’re extremely welcome.
Pull up a comfy chair, pour yourself a cuppa, grab a chocolate biscuit or two and join the fun.

Voivod wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" scribbled:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

And have you read the manual? Quite a few of the questions that get asked ARE answered in Photoshop’s quite comprehensive user guide or can be found in minutes using Google. So the conclusion that’s often drawn is pure laziness or someone with a pirated copy that’s missing the help file. The rule of thumb should always be; "Try helping yourself before asking for help." for any application. You’d think that anyone who’d shell out hundreds of dollars for an application would at least glance at the user manual once or twice. As for the obvious pirates, they deserve no help.

Have you ever read a manual and just got a complete mental block where the words stopped making sense to you? The words on the page just turn into "blah blah blah", nomatter how often or slowly you read them? And it doesn’t even need to be something complicated either.
It happens to people all around the world when they read techy instructions. It’s part of the human psyche, and it’s one of the things that makes the humble human brain different from a computer processer.
Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.
It’s called information overload.
The human brain can only handle so much info before it has to start sorting it and filing it to make room for the next load, and some people’s buffer can hold more before it overloads than other people’s can.

Some of the people you’re condemning could simply be people who’ve burned out on reading manual’s, but still have a deadline that has to be met, so they’re desperately seeking a more user-friendly explanation that the sort you’d find in a manual.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

I’ve lurked here for a couple of years. I haven’t had many specific questions, but I do read the posts and absorb – and try – the tips.

If you do have a question, just post it. Be clear about what you want to do and – if necessary – include a link to illustrate what you are trying to do or have done. Use your own ISP’s space or the free space offered by PhotoBucket et al.

You’ll get good answers and you’ll get answers from people like Vovoid. It’s like picking apples at the orchard…sometimes they’re all good, and sometimes a worm hitchhikes in with the good ones.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

In article ,
Waterspider wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Check out linda.com.

—
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don’t blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:57:53 GMT, "Fat Sam"
scribbled:

Voivod wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" scribbled:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

And have you read the manual? Quite a few of the questions that get asked ARE answered in Photoshop’s quite comprehensive user guide or can be found in minutes using Google. So the conclusion that’s often drawn is pure laziness or someone with a pirated copy that’s missing the help file. The rule of thumb should always be; "Try helping yourself before asking for help." for any application. You’d think that anyone who’d shell out hundreds of dollars for an application would at least glance at the user manual once or twice. As for the obvious pirates, they deserve no help.

Have you ever read a manual and just got a complete mental block where the words stopped making sense to you? The words on the page just turn into

Why yes, I have and when I run into such a situation and need to ask a question about it I most definitely include something alone the lines of "I’ve read the manual and checked Google but I’m just drawing a blank" so that people KNOW I put my effort into solving the problem instead of just expecting someone else to do the thinking for me.

"blah blah blah", nomatter how often or slowly you read them? And it doesn’t even need to be something complicated either.
It happens to people all around the world when they read techy instructions. It’s part of the human psyche, and it’s one of the things that makes the humble human brain different from a computer processer.

That and; breathing, bleeding, circulation, procreation, non-linear thought, free will, etc. etc. etc.

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.
It’s called information overload.
The human brain can only handle so much info before it has to start sorting it and filing it to make room for the next load, and some people’s buffer can hold more before it overloads than other people’s can.
Some of the people you’re condemning could simply be people who’ve burned out on reading manual’s, but still have a deadline that has to be met, so they’re desperately seeking a more user-friendly explanation that the sort you’d find in a manual.

I don’t condemn anyone who says they’ve TRIED. It’s the abjectly lazy, those who clearly haven’t even looked in the manual or tried to find a solution or worse those who apparently have ‘purchased’ a $600 application and expect it to have a "Make me talented" button prominently displayed on the toolbar.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:05:41 -0400, tony cooper
scribbled:

You’ll get good answers and you’ll get answers from people like Vovoid.

Ah fans, they’re so much fun to have. Do you obsess over me in your dreams as well?

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" scribbled:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning
more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of
questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a
READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT
response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and
serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So…
what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

And have you read the manual? Quite a few of the questions that get asked ARE answered in Photoshop’s quite comprehensive user guide or can be found in minutes using Google. So the conclusion that’s often drawn is pure laziness or someone with a pirated copy that’s missing the help file. The rule of thumb should always be; "Try helping yourself before asking for help." for any application. You’d think that anyone who’d shell out hundreds of dollars for an application would at least glance at the user manual once or twice. As for the obvious pirates, they deserve no help.

Yes, I’ve read the goddamn manual, parts of it repeatedly, and I frequently refer to the Help file. I do not use pirated software, nor do I shoplift, and I am not lazy or stupid. I am now using CS2 but, there are times when instructions leap from amazing-grasp-of-the-obvious insultingly basic to way over my head technically. As a technical writer, I blame the manual rather than the program, but that’s another matter. I too have little patience for users, thieves and fools, so we’ll probably get along fine.

Voivod wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:57:53 GMT, "Fat Sam"
scribbled:

Voivod wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" scribbled:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

And have you read the manual? Quite a few of the questions that get asked ARE answered in Photoshop’s quite comprehensive user guide or can be found in minutes using Google. So the conclusion that’s often drawn is pure laziness or someone with a pirated copy that’s missing the help file. The rule of thumb should always be; "Try helping yourself before asking for help." for any application. You’d think that anyone who’d shell out hundreds of dollars for an application would at least glance at the user manual once or twice. As for the obvious pirates, they deserve no help.

Have you ever read a manual and just got a complete mental block where the words stopped making sense to you? The words on the page just turn into

Why yes, I have and when I run into such a situation and need to ask a question about it I most definitely include something alone the lines of "I’ve read the manual and checked Google but I’m just drawing a blank" so that people KNOW I put my effort into solving the problem instead of just expecting someone else to do the thinking for me.

"blah blah blah", nomatter how often or slowly you read them? And it doesn’t even need to be something complicated either.
It happens to people all around the world when they read techy instructions. It’s part of the human psyche, and it’s one of the things that makes the humble human brain different from a computer processer.

That and; breathing, bleeding, circulation, procreation, non-linear thought, free will, etc. etc. etc.

you forgot defecation and the ability to get drunk out of your skull.

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.
It’s called information overload.
The human brain can only handle so much info before it has to start sorting it and filing it to make room for the next load, and some people’s buffer can hold more before it overloads than other people’s can.

Some of the people you’re condemning could simply be people who’ve burned out on reading manual’s, but still have a deadline that has to be met, so they’re desperately seeking a more user-friendly explanation that the sort you’d find in a manual.

I don’t condemn anyone who says they’ve TRIED. It’s the abjectly lazy, those who clearly haven’t even looked in the manual or tried to find a solution or worse those who apparently have ‘purchased’ a $600 application and expect it to have a "Make me talented" button prominently displayed on the toolbar.

Oh yeah. Where is that button? I still can’t find it?
😉

"tony cooper" wrote in message

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning
more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of
questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a
READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT
response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and
serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So…
what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

I’ve lurked here for a couple of years. I haven’t had many specific questions, but I do read the posts and absorb – and try – the tips.
If you do have a question, just post it. Be clear about what you want to do and – if necessary – include a link to illustrate what you are trying to do or have done. Use your own ISP’s space or the free space offered by PhotoBucket et al.

You’ll get good answers and you’ll get answers from people like Vovoid. It’s like picking apples at the orchard…sometimes they’re all good, and sometimes a worm hitchhikes in with the good ones.

Thanks Tony, I look forward to gathering the courage to post my first question. Maybe I’ll luck out an get one of Vovoid’s rare, helpful responses <g>.
In the meantime, maybe a good place to start is by trying to find a post to which I can offer some knowledge.

<off to see if anyone’s had questions about design or English>

"Al Dykes" wrote in message

In article ,
Waterspider wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning
more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of
questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a
READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT
response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and
serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So…
what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Check out linda.com.

Thanks for that, I just did.
Am I missing something?

Waterspider wrote:

"Al Dykes" wrote in message

In article ,
Waterspider wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning
more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of
questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a
READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT
response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and
serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So…
what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Check out linda.com.

Thanks for that, I just did.
Am I missing something?

If you are, so am I. All I found was a cybersquatters holding page.

"Fat Sam" wrote in message

Waterspider wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

Hi Waterspider.
Unfortunately, in every newsgroup, you’ll get a few assholes who feel that knowledge is power, and who feel it’s their duty to belittle and mock those who would dare to ask a question.
Most of the time, these people don’t actually know the anser and they’re just using bravado to hide their ignorance.

It’s been my experience that most of the folks in this group are helpfull. Some are playfully sarcastic with it, but more often than not, there’s no real malice intended. Just good natured banter.
I know I always try to jump in with an answer to help out if I (a) know the answer, and (b) no-one else has gotten in there before me.
I think I’m trying to say that you shouldn’t be intimidated and put off joining in. On the whole this is a fun and deeply informative newsgroup where you’re extremely welcome.
Pull up a comfy chair, pour yourself a cuppa, grab a chocolate biscuit or two and join the fun.

Thanks for the welcome, Fat. I’ve already noticed that the information posted here is excellent; that’s why I was wondering if the ng was for advanced users only. Playful sarcasm is right up my alley… starting to feel at home already.

in addition to the info posted here, two of the best sites that I check regularly are www.radiantvista.com and www.russellbrown.com they have lots of tutorials all free…

another place to look is on iTUNES.. there are TONS of FREE video and audio tutorials you can get… I have over 400 episodes (most I have yet to watch) , but go to itunes and type in Photoshop, and subscribe… great stuff…

I hope this is of help… kk

a recycled digital newbie as well…

—
=> Looking @ You Photography
=>Kevin Kienlein – Entertainer/Inspirational Speaker
=>Vernon, BC, Canada
=>http://www.kevinkienlein.com
=>Never give in, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!
=>Life is the Gig, THIS AIN’T NO REHEARSAL!
=>Age 46/Tricuspid, Atresia, Atrial & Vent, Septal Defects. =>My Congenital Heart Defects

"Waterspider" wrote in message

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Waterspider

another thing I subscribe to is the newsletter from here.. www.WatchAndLearnPhotoshop.com they have a weekly thing with hints and tips… kk

"Al Dykes" wrote in message

In article ,
Waterspider wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning
more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of
questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a
READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT
response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and
serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So…
what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Check out linda.com.

—
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don’t blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

newsgroups are open to everyone… unless they are moderated… I don’t think there is such a thing as an ‘advanced’ newsgroup, everyone should be here to learn or share… I keep thinking of more places to learn www.fredmiranda.com I did searches with ‘photoshop tutorial free’ and you will find LOADS of places to get things… just takes time and persistence! :o)

kk

"Waterspider" wrote in message

"Fat Sam" wrote in message

Waterspider wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

Hi Waterspider.
Unfortunately, in every newsgroup, you’ll get a few assholes who feel that knowledge is power, and who feel it’s their duty to belittle and mock those who would dare to ask a question.
Most of the time, these people don’t actually know the anser and they’re just using bravado to hide their ignorance.

It’s been my experience that most of the folks in this group are helpfull. Some are playfully sarcastic with it, but more often than not, there’s no real malice intended. Just good natured banter. I know I always try to jump in with an answer to help out if I (a) know the answer, and (b) no-one else has gotten in there before me.
I think I’m trying to say that you shouldn’t be intimidated and put off joining in. On the whole this is a fun and deeply informative newsgroup where you’re extremely welcome.
Pull up a comfy chair, pour yourself a cuppa, grab a chocolate biscuit or two and join the fun.

Thanks for the welcome, Fat. I’ve already noticed that the information posted here is excellent; that’s why I was wondering if the ng was for advanced users only. Playful sarcasm is right up my alley… starting to feel at home already.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:38:53 GMT, "Fat Sam"
scribbled:

"blah blah blah", nomatter how often or slowly you read them? And it doesn’t even need to be something complicated either.
It happens to people all around the world when they read techy instructions. It’s part of the human psyche, and it’s one of the things that makes the humble human brain different from a computer processer.

That and; breathing, bleeding, circulation, procreation, non-linear thought, free will, etc. etc. etc.

you forgot defecation and the ability to get drunk out of your skull.

Those were covered by the etc.’s hence their use.

I don’t condemn anyone who says they’ve TRIED. It’s the abjectly lazy, those who clearly haven’t even looked in the manual or tried to find a solution or worse those who apparently have ‘purchased’ a $600 application and expect it to have a "Make me talented" button prominently displayed on the toolbar.

Oh yeah. Where is that button? I still can’t find it?

It’s in the super deluxe secret version only sold to left handed Irishmen.

Voivod wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:38:53 GMT, "Fat Sam"
scribbled:

"blah blah blah", nomatter how often or slowly you read them? And it doesn’t even need to be something complicated either. It happens to people all around the world when they read techy instructions. It’s part of the human psyche, and it’s one of the things that makes the humble human brain different from a computer processer.

That and; breathing, bleeding, circulation, procreation, non-linear thought, free will, etc. etc. etc.

you forgot defecation and the ability to get drunk out of your skull.

Those were covered by the etc.’s hence their use.

But they’re so important I felt they needed a sentence of their own.

I don’t condemn anyone who says they’ve TRIED. It’s the abjectly lazy, those who clearly haven’t even looked in the manual or tried to find a solution or worse those who apparently have ‘purchased’ a $600 application and expect it to have a "Make me talented" button prominently displayed on the toolbar.

Oh yeah. Where is that button? I still can’t find it?

It’s in the super deluxe secret version only sold to left handed Irishmen.

Damn. I’m halfway here. I’ve got the Irish part sorted. Born and raised on the emarelad isle. Left handed is to much of a challenge for me, although I am rather fond of left handed websites if you get my meaning.

www.kevinkienlein.com wrote:

in addition to the info posted here, two of the best sites that I check regularly are www.radiantvista.com and www.russellbrown.com they have lots of tutorials all free…

another place to look is on iTUNES.. there are TONS of FREE video and audio tutorials you can get…

Ooooh. I would never have thought of itunes.

On Jun 19, 11:18 pm, (Al Dykes) wrote:

In article ,

Waterspider wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Check out linda.com.

—
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
Don’t blame me. I voted for Gore. A Proud signature since 2001

I second that. I’m a Lynda.com subscriber, and their video training is THE best I have ever used. They have some great trainers (who are professional graphics artists, not just professional trainers!). $25 a month gets you access to their entire library (80,000 videos!). You can subscribe for just one month, or as long as you want.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:33:05 -0400, Voivod wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" scribbled:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

And have you read the manual? Quite a few of the questions that get asked ARE answered in Photoshop’s quite comprehensive user guide or can be found in minutes using Google. So the conclusion that’s often drawn is pure laziness or someone with a pirated copy that’s missing the help file. The rule of thumb should always be; "Try helping yourself before asking for help." for any application. You’d think that anyone who’d shell out hundreds of dollars for an application would at least glance at the user manual once or twice. As for the obvious pirates, they deserve no help.

Agreed……. and if we were all of the same understanding level the manual would probably be sufficent. However, I find that most software manuals are written for other technicians rather than the general public. Thus the popularity of the "XXX" for Dummies series of books.

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:24:02 -0400, Voivod wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:57:53 GMT, "Fat Sam"
scribbled:

Voivod wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" scribbled:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

And have you read the manual? Quite a few of the questions that get asked ARE answered in Photoshop’s quite comprehensive user guide or can be found in minutes using Google. So the conclusion that’s often drawn is pure laziness or someone with a pirated copy that’s missing the help file. The rule of thumb should always be; "Try helping yourself before asking for help." for any application. You’d think that anyone who’d shell out hundreds of dollars for an application would at least glance at the user manual once or twice. As for the obvious pirates, they deserve no help.

Have you ever read a manual and just got a complete mental block where the words stopped making sense to you? The words on the page just turn into

Why yes, I have and when I run into such a situation and need to ask a question about it I most definitely include something alone the lines of "I’ve read the manual and checked Google but I’m just drawing a blank" so that people KNOW I put my effort into solving the problem instead of just expecting someone else to do the thinking for me.

Rather an arrogant attitude don’t you think? You are supposing to know the person you rail against rather intimatly to know that they are so lazt and shiftless as to expect somebody else to do their thinking for them. Coulld it possibly be that you might be a bit condescenging and judgemental? Nawwwww…… I bet not.

"blah blah blah", nomatter how often or slowly you read them? And it doesn’t even need to be something complicated either.
It happens to people all around the world when they read techy instructions. It’s part of the human psyche, and it’s one of the things that makes the humble human brain different from a computer processer.

That and; breathing, bleeding, circulation, procreation, non-linear thought, free will, etc. etc. etc.

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.
It’s called information overload.
The human brain can only handle so much info before it has to start sorting it and filing it to make room for the next load, and some people’s buffer can hold more before it overloads than other people’s can.
Some of the people you’re condemning could simply be people who’ve burned out on reading manual’s, but still have a deadline that has to be met, so they’re desperately seeking a more user-friendly explanation that the sort you’d find in a manual.

I don’t condemn anyone who says they’ve TRIED. It’s the abjectly lazy, those who clearly haven’t even looked in the manual or tried to find a solution or worse those who apparently have ‘purchased’ a $600 application and expect it to have a "Make me talented" button prominently displayed on the toolbar.

Ahhhhh. Talent is the REAL agenda for you then? So you expect that people that are not up to par should not be trying? Interesting. Maybe they aren’t looking for the talent button trather a little common courtesy and assistance. Tell me. Who DO you feel should be using this program??

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:05:41 -0400, tony cooper
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

I’ve lurked here for a couple of years. I haven’t had many specific questions, but I do read the posts and absorb – and try – the tips.
If you do have a question, just post it. Be clear about what you want to do and – if necessary – include a link to illustrate what you are trying to do or have done. Use your own ISP’s space or the free space offered by PhotoBucket et al.

You’ll get good answers and you’ll get answers from people like Vovoid. It’s like picking apples at the orchard…sometimes they’re all good, and sometimes a worm hitchhikes in with the good ones.

Yep and that’s why these reader programs have a little killfile button. It’s right beside the "Talent" button I think!

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:36:22 GMT, "Fat Sam"
wrote:

www.kevinkienlein.com wrote:

in addition to the info posted here, two of the best sites that I check regularly are www.radiantvista.com and www.russellbrown.com they have lots of tutorials all free…

another place to look is on iTUNES.. there are TONS of FREE video and audio tutorials you can get…

Ooooh. I would never have thought of itunes.

I got some SUPER instructional stuff when I got my Epson R1800 printer and did Epson’s digital training series. It was like 19 weeks long and sent you a vid each day. It was trememdous but I forget what they call it. I will try to post it here later on but you can go to Epson.com and search for tutorial videos and it should pop right up!

"Waterspider" wrote in message

"Al Dykes" wrote in message

In article ,
Waterspider wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning
more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of
questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a
READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT
response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and
serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So…
what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Check out linda.com.

Thanks for that, I just did.
Am I missing something?

No, but I think the poster meant to tell you Check out lynda.com. It’s slightly more helpful.

"www.kevinkienlein.com" wrote:

newsgroups are open to everyone… unless they are moderated… I don’t think there is such a thing as an ‘advanced’ newsgroup, everyone should be here to learn or share… I keep thinking of more places to learn www.fredmiranda.com I did searches with ‘photoshop tutorial free’ and you will find LOADS of places to get things… just takes time and persistence! :o)

kk

There is a ‘Top Post Virus’ on your hard drive.
Use your virus killer on it – this is not the way to do it. We do not read from the bottom to the top
but from the top downwards.

Dave

"Waterspider" wrote in message

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Waterspider

if you are thin skinned this is not the place for you
advice 1: ask nicely no matter how dumb or newb the question, this will get you better responses
advice 2: figure out the trolls here and use your blocker advice 3: yes attempt to figure stuff out on your own first advice 4: I help with stuff I know, I am not formally trained in PS, self taught, if I can help you I will, I am expert at some things and no nothing about other things, I learned a lot reading the posts, I share freely and am glad others do too. I am nice most of the time and other times I am a BITCH, I do not suffer fools well.
advice 5: keep sense of humor in tact

welcome to NG

KatWoman wrote:

"Waterspider" wrote in message

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Waterspider

if you are thin skinned this is not the place for you
advice 1: ask nicely no matter how dumb or newb the question,

There are no dumb questions….
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/249/462330082_d4ed3bacce_o.jp g http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/324022086_b44735fae4_o.jp g

and other times I am a BITCH,

Yeah, but that’s part of your charm KW.

5: keep sense of humor in tact

Probably the best bit of advice anyone can ever receive. It works for just about every aspect of life (unless you’re a policeman delivering news of a death to a grieving relative – probably best to ditch the sense of humour there).

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:20:45 -0500, scribbled:

Have you ever read a manual and just got a complete mental block where the words stopped making sense to you? The words on the page just turn into

Why yes, I have and when I run into such a situation and need to ask a question about it I most definitely include something alone the lines of "I’ve read the manual and checked Google but I’m just drawing a blank" so that people KNOW I put my effort into solving the problem instead of just expecting someone else to do the thinking for me.

Rather an arrogant attitude don’t you think? You are supposing to know

Not really.

the person you rail against rather intimatly to know that they are so lazt and shiftless as to expect somebody else to do their thinking for them. Coulld it possibly be that you might be a bit condescenging and judgemental? Nawwwww…… I bet not.

It’s rather easy to spot the questions from people who’ve put zero effort into finding their own solution.

I don’t condemn anyone who says they’ve TRIED. It’s the abjectly lazy, those who clearly haven’t even looked in the manual or tried to find a solution or worse those who apparently have ‘purchased’ a $600 application and expect it to have a "Make me talented" button prominently displayed on the toolbar.

Ahhhhh. Talent is the REAL agenda for you then? So you expect that

Rather arrogant of you to suppose you know me intimately enough to know my motives. Could it be you’re a bit judgmental? Why, yes, you are.

people that are not up to par should not be trying? Interesting. Maybe they aren’t looking for the talent button trather a little common courtesy and assistance. Tell me. Who DO you feel should be using this program??

Who should be using a program designed for graphics professionals that costs six times more than it’s nearest comparable competitor Paint Shop Pro? Figure it out yourself.

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:20:45 -0500, scribbled:

Ahhhhh. Talent is the REAL agenda for you then? So you expect that

Rather arrogant of you to suppose you know me intimately enough to know my motives. Could it be you’re a bit judgmental? Why, yes, you are.

people that are not up to par should not be trying? Interesting. Maybe they aren’t looking for the talent button trather a little common courtesy and assistance. Tell me. Who DO you feel should be using this program??

Who should be using a program designed for graphics professionals that costs six times more than it’s nearest comparable competitor Paint Shop Pro? Figure it out yourself.

Were it not for the attitude of idiots like Voivod, who think they have some God given right to insult anyone with lesser skill of a program than they have… I may have become more knowledgeable about Photoshop sooner than it took me by developing skills through try-it-and-see learning.

This group is a wonderful idea. It’s a pity the people who *COULD* help others use the opportunity to chastise people and bully them for their own entertainment and amusement.

Reading the Photoshop manual does not actually enlighten someone as to how to achieve many goals. Voivod, you would do well to keep in mind that you, yourself were once a total novice and probably asked what you now consider stupid and dumb questions.

The measure of a man’s worth is not how many others he belittled in his life but how many he helped. (my quote)

Douglas

—
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:50:32 -0700, "Waterspider" wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Waterspider

Hi there WS! I’m new to this group too, and I have found many helpful people that have offered many useful tips here. One thing that I think all newbies to Photoshop will discover is that the help files aren’t all that helpful. Yes it will tell you how a tool functions, but what it doesn’t do is to explain when to use it. There must be over 1,000 tools, filters, functions, etc. in PhotoShop, and while the helpfile might explain what the Unsharp Mask is, it doesn’t explain when to use it, how much you need to set each parameter to, etc. It just tells you what it does. The only way to know how to use it properly for a given situation is to experiment with it. The problem is, with over 1,000 tools, filters, etc. to use, no one has the time to experiment with ever tool, to see what it will do. Add to that, when you combine filters, layers, tool, etc. to achieve a certain effect that you’d never be able to discover on your own, and you’d never get any work done.
Asking in here saves time, and with so many people in here, they will give you a variety of ways to achieve your goal. I do agree that it’s always best to try and find a solution by searching the Net first, because that is usually the fastest way to get an answer. Anyway, from one newbie to another, welcome.

Talker

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:43:49 +1000, "Ryadia"
scribbled:

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:20:45 -0500, scribbled:

Ahhhhh. Talent is the REAL agenda for you then? So you expect that

Rather arrogant of you to suppose you know me intimately enough to know my motives. Could it be you’re a bit judgmental? Why, yes, you are.

people that are not up to par should not be trying? Interesting. Maybe they aren’t looking for the talent button trather a little common courtesy and assistance. Tell me. Who DO you feel should be using this program??

Who should be using a program designed for graphics professionals that costs six times more than it’s nearest comparable competitor Paint Shop Pro? Figure it out yourself.

Were it not for the attitude of idiots like Voivod, who think they have some God given right to insult anyone with lesser skill of a program than they have… I may have become more knowledgeable about Photoshop sooner than it took me by developing skills through try-it-and-see learning.

Don’t blame me for your stupidity. Your mom probably drank when she was preggers with you.

This group is a wonderful idea. It’s a pity the people who *COULD* help others use the opportunity to chastise people and bully them for their own entertainment and amusement.

And your post here blasting and insulting me is helpful? Oh, I do so love hypocrites.

Reading the Photoshop manual does not actually enlighten someone as to how to achieve many goals. Voivod, you would do well to keep in mind that you, yourself were once a total novice and probably asked what you now consider stupid and dumb questions.

You should try actually reading my posts instead of just being another knee-jerk reactionary. ALL I stated was "TRY to help yourself first." You learn far more by figuring things out on your own than having someone hold your hand through the process.

The measure of a man’s worth is not how many others he belittled in his life but how many he helped. (my quote)

When you’ve topped out over ten thousand volunteer hours (none court imposed) and eleven years as a scouting leader, get back to me about this.

There is no such thing as a ‘dumb’ question, especially you don’t know the answer!! kk

entertainment and amusement.

Reading the Photoshop manual does not actually enlighten someone as to how to achieve many goals. Voivod, you would do well to keep in mind that you, yourself were once a total novice and probably asked what you now consider stupid and dumb questions.

The measure of a man’s worth is not how many others he belittled in his life but how many he helped. (my quote)

Douglas

—
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Jun 19, 2:57 pm, "Fat Sam" wrote:

Some of the people you’re condemning could simply be people who’ve burned out on reading manual’s, but still have a deadline that has to be met, so they’re desperately seeking a more user-friendly explanation that the sort you’d find in a manual.

I’ve also found that it helps to have a manual that is written in the way that I learn. When I bought PS5.5, the manual was so dry, I didn’t care much for it at all. I used it sometimes, but I went out and bought a different book.

When I upgraded to CS2, I bought the upgrade online. No book manual. Yes, there is a help file, but it is text only, and not very helpful to me. I bought a good book that is geared toward photographers, and I read it cover to cover. I only skipped the section on black and white. I have post-its sticking out of it, and I use it a lot. I still have unanswered questions. And I still don’t always understand the best technique for what I am trying to do.

Recently, I was quite surprised to learn that I could doubleclick on the background to get a window for opening a file. This was in response to asking if I could delete something on the menu, or move it, since I keep hitting "browse" by accident.

Sometimes I read the group just to learn about things I didn’t even know to ask about, let alone look it up.

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:09:57 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

There is no such thing as a ‘dumb’ question

You obviously haven’t spent enough time on the internet.

"Ryadia" wrote in message

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:20:45 -0500, scribbled:

Ahhhhh. Talent is the REAL agenda for you then? So you expect that

Rather arrogant of you to suppose you know me intimately enough to know my motives. Could it be you’re a bit judgmental? Why, yes, you are.

people that are not up to par should not be trying? Interesting. Maybe they aren’t looking for the talent button trather a little common courtesy and assistance. Tell me. Who DO you feel should be using this program??

Who should be using a program designed for graphics professionals that costs six times more than it’s nearest comparable competitor Paint Shop Pro? Figure it out yourself.

Were it not for the attitude of idiots like Voivod, who think they have some God given right to insult anyone with lesser skill of a program than they have… I may have become more knowledgeable about Photoshop sooner than it took me by developing skills through try-it-and-see learning.
This group is a wonderful idea. It’s a pity the people who *COULD* help others use the opportunity to chastise people and bully them for their own entertainment and amusement.

Reading the Photoshop manual does not actually enlighten someone as to how to achieve many goals. Voivod, you would do well to keep in mind that you, yourself were once a total novice and probably asked what you now consider stupid and dumb questions.

The measure of a man’s worth is not how many others he belittled in his life but how many he helped. (my quote)

Douglas

I can’t see his posts
spam filtered many moons ago

i have been here close to 20 years… there may be redundant questions, but some people are just unknowledgable about ALLOT of things… kk

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:09:57 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

There is no such thing as a ‘dumb’ question

You obviously haven’t spent enough time on the internet.

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.

What’s a kip. I googled kip.. and it is not in my manual… I think I need one right about now as I am just about ready to leave work and go on vacation for 10 days..

pnolte

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:53:49 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" wrote:

i have been here close to 20 years… there may be redundant questions, but some people are just unknowledgable about ALLOT of things… kk

Certainly you are not 20 years on USENET. Maybe a few weeks, otherwise you would have known how to reply to post.

Dave

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:53:49 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

i have been here close to 20 years… there may be redundant questions, but some people are just unknowledgable about ALLOT of things… kk

Odd, you’ve been somewhere for 20 years that’s only existed for 10. How’d you manage that?

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:09:57 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

There is no such thing as a ‘dumb’ question

You obviously haven’t spent enough time on the internet.

On Jun 22, 12:17 am, Voivod wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:53:49 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

i have been here close to 20 years… there may be redundant questions, but some people are just unknowledgable about ALLOT of things… kk

Odd, you’ve been somewhere for 20 years that’s only existed for 10. How’d you manage that?

Usenet (newsgroups) have been around longer than google.

I’ve been here since 1993, and it was definitely well established before then.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 00:47:56 -0700, ""
scribbled:

On Jun 22, 12:17 am, Voivod wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:53:49 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

i have been here close to 20 years… there may be redundant questions, but some people are just unknowledgable about ALLOT of things… kk

Odd, you’ve been somewhere for 20 years that’s only existed for 10. How’d you manage that?

Usenet (newsgroups) have been around longer than google.

I’m SHOCKED! (actually I’m not.)

I’ve been here since 1993, and it was definitely well established before then.

I checked the control message archive.

if you check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet or www.google,com etc… & you will find that Usenet/newsgroups have been around since 1980 and became more organized and formalized as years went by. I have been on them for at least 10 years, maybe longer, before that I was on BBS’s (if you are familiar with those).

I prefer top posting, as I do not care to scroll through 380 lines of text to see someone’s reply… there are several ‘accepted’ protocols and this is the one I prefer… deleting un-needed sections of text that are not needed as required.

cheers… kk

wrote in message

On Jun 22, 12:17 am, Voivod wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:53:49 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

i have been here close to 20 years… there may be redundant questions, but
some people are just unknowledgable about ALLOT of things… kk

Odd, you’ve been somewhere for 20 years that’s only existed for 10. How’d you manage that?

Usenet (newsgroups) have been around longer than google.
I’ve been here since 1993, and it was definitely well established before then.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 01:10:02 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

if you check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet or www.google,com etc… & you will find that Usenet/newsgroups have been around since 1980 and became more organized and formalized as years went by. I have been on them for at least 10 years, maybe longer, before that I was on BBS’s (if you are familiar with those).

I had a 115 baud TTY with thermal paper. I can remember DDials, Proving grounds and the evolution of the BBS. I’m not impressed.

I prefer top posting, as I do not care to scroll through 380 lines of text

Only morons and newbies top post.

to see someone’s reply… there are several ‘accepted’ protocols and this is the one I prefer… deleting un-needed sections of text that are not needed as required.

Try the ‘page down’ key.

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:57:24 -0400, Voivod wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:43:49 +1000, "Ryadia"
scribbled:

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:20:45 -0500, scribbled:

Ahhhhh. Talent is the REAL agenda for you then? So you expect that

Rather arrogant of you to suppose you know me intimately enough to know my motives. Could it be you’re a bit judgmental? Why, yes, you are.

people that are not up to par should not be trying? Interesting. Maybe they aren’t looking for the talent button trather a little common courtesy and assistance. Tell me. Who DO you feel should be using this program??

Who should be using a program designed for graphics professionals that costs six times more than it’s nearest comparable competitor Paint Shop Pro? Figure it out yourself.

Were it not for the attitude of idiots like Voivod, who think they have some God given right to insult anyone with lesser skill of a program than they have… I may have become more knowledgeable about Photoshop sooner than it took me by developing skills through try-it-and-see learning.

Don’t blame me for your stupidity. Your mom probably drank when she was preggers with you.

This group is a wonderful idea. It’s a pity the people who *COULD* help others use the opportunity to chastise people and bully them for their own entertainment and amusement.

And your post here blasting and insulting me is helpful? Oh, I do so love hypocrites.

Reading the Photoshop manual does not actually enlighten someone as to how to achieve many goals. Voivod, you would do well to keep in mind that you, yourself were once a total novice and probably asked what you now consider stupid and dumb questions.

You should try actually reading my posts instead of just being another knee-jerk reactionary. ALL I stated was "TRY to help yourself first." You learn far more by figuring things out on your own than having someone hold your hand through the process.

The measure of a man’s worth is not how many others he belittled in his life but how many he helped. (my quote)

When you’ve topped out over ten thousand volunteer hours (none court imposed) and eleven years as a scouting leader, get back to me about this.

OK Let’s examine this statement…..

10000 hours Volunteering for what? Granted if you were giving your time for any worthwhile cause it shouldn’t matter. However, if you were giving your time with self-serving interests (such as a politician groping for votes) then it does make a difference.

And let’s just shake out the numbers here a tad….. See what 10000 hours really adds up to…

10,000 hours = 1.14 years, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week

10,000 hours = 1,250 working days. That’s 250 five day weeks…. or almost 5 solid years of work.

Now, considering you had to earn a living (unless you are independently wealthy which just might explain the attitude) then you had to devote an average 8 hours a day to earning a living. Add in another 10 a day for eating and sleeping… you see where I am getting at?

Now, MOST folks will consider doing volunteer work 3 days a week as a LOT. So, if you break it that way….

10000 = 416 weeks of working EIGHT hours a day, 3 times a week…. for 8 solid years!!!

Now, 24 hours a week in unpaid voluenteer work is a lot but possibly doable, I will admit that. Not likely, but plausible!

So, if you consider the same scenario at 4 hours a day….. 3 times a week you are talking this kind of schedule for 16 years….. Even more plausible but I might add still a bit to swallow when you consider this means 52 weeks a year, NO BREAKS…. 3 days a week for FOUR hours a day.

Can I say here that I am a tad skeptical at your claim of 10,000 hours voluenteer work? I will be the first to admit that I could be wrong….. but the numbers just make me think that you might be stretching the truth here just a skosh.

OK, I am back to you on this sir. Please respond. I truely hope that I can commend you on your civic dedication!

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:17:18 -0400, Voivod wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:53:49 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

i have been here close to 20 years… there may be redundant questions, but some people are just unknowledgable about ALLOT of things… kk

Odd, you’ve been somewhere for 20 years that’s only existed for 10. How’d you manage that?

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:09:57 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

There is no such thing as a ‘dumb’ question

You obviously haven’t spent enough time on the internet.

Ten??? You actually think that the internet has only existed since 1997??

You just shot yourself in the foot fool. ANd I am going to be the one to show you how ignorant and arrogant you are….

in 1969 the Defense Department created ARPANET the forerunner of what has evolved into the "Internet" as a method to allow defense assets (computers) to communicate. ARPANET made it’s first international connection in 1973.

By 1983 the term "Internet" had become a common descriptive term for networks that user the TCP/IP protocol. in 1969 the National Science Foundation created it’s network…. NSFNET which eventually absorbed the ARPANET network…… and thus gave us what continues to evolve into what is now refered to as "The Internet".

Now, if you actually meant the USENER here where fools like you can show your lack of knowledge so openly, then allow me to quote from USENET.COM….

"Usenet was born approximately 3 decades ago, in 1979. It all began as a small communication network between a few universities in the United States used to trade information, news, and research results. It has grown from a simple design without an official structure, to a logical network linking millions of people and computers to over 100,000 different newsgroups and millions of bytes of articles. What began as two or three sites on a single network in 1979, expanded to 15 in 1980, to 150 in 1981, to 400 in 1982, to millions in 2003."

Feeling stupid yet?

No, there are no stupid questions……. only stupid statements and you made one here fella! Now please crawl back under your rock troll.

pnolte wrote:

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.

What’s a kip. I googled kip.. and it is not in my manual… I think I need one right about now as I am just about ready to leave work and go on vacation for 10 days..

It sounds like you do need a kip my friend.
Having a kip means to have a sleep.
I thought it was universal English. It must be a uniquely British phrase.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:46:38 GMT, "Fat Sam"
wrote:

pnolte wrote:

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.

What’s a kip. I googled kip.. and it is not in my manual… I think I need one right about now as I am just about ready to leave work and go on vacation for 10 days..

It sounds like you do need a kip my friend.
Having a kip means to have a sleep.
I thought it was universal English. It must be a uniquely British phrase.

So uniquely British that is even used in South Africa, Sam? English is not my home language, but everyone here knows the word whether Afrikaans or English speaking, because it is part of the local slang:-)

Dave

Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:46:38 GMT, "Fat Sam"
wrote:

pnolte wrote:

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.

What’s a kip. I googled kip.. and it is not in my manual… I think I need one right about now as I am just about ready to leave work and go on vacation for 10 days..

It sounds like you do need a kip my friend.
Having a kip means to have a sleep.
I thought it was universal English. It must be a uniquely British phrase.

So uniquely British that is even used in South Africa, Sam? English is not my home language, but everyone here knows the word whether Afrikaans or English speaking, because it is part of the local slang:-)

Dave

Perhaps it’s just not in common use where pnolte lives.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:48:15 GMT, "Fat Sam"
wrote:

Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:46:38 GMT, "Fat Sam"
wrote:

pnolte wrote:

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.

What’s a kip. I googled kip.. and it is not in my manual… I think I need one right about now as I am just about ready to leave work and go on vacation for 10 days..

It sounds like you do need a kip my friend.
Having a kip means to have a sleep.
I thought it was universal English. It must be a uniquely British phrase.

So uniquely British that is even used in South Africa, Sam? English is not my home language, but everyone here knows the word whether Afrikaans or English speaking, because it is part of the local slang:-)

Dave

Perhaps it’s just not in common use where pnolte lives.

or maybe he’s akip

Dave

"" wrote:

On Jun 22, 12:17 am, Voivod wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:53:49 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

i have been here close to 20 years… there may be redundant questions, but some people are just unknowledgable about ALLOT of things… kk

Odd, you’ve been somewhere for 20 years that’s only existed for 10. How’d you manage that?

Usenet (newsgroups) have been around longer than google.
I’ve been here since 1993, and it was definitely well established before then.

Internet may be *but* not Usenet as it has been around since early 80’s when I first used Usenet (via FIDO).

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 06:23:10 -0500, scribbled:

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:17:18 -0400, Voivod wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:53:49 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

i have been here close to 20 years… there may be redundant questions, but some people are just unknowledgable about ALLOT of things… kk

Odd, you’ve been somewhere for 20 years that’s only existed for 10. How’d you manage that?

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:09:57 -0700, "www.kevinkienlein.com" scribbled:

There is no such thing as a ‘dumb’ question

You obviously haven’t spent enough time on the internet.

Ten??? You actually think that the internet has only existed since 1997??

No, dumbass, this group’s control message archive goes back 10 years.

You just shot yourself in the foot fool. ANd I am going to be the one to show you how ignorant and arrogant you are….

Go right ahead and copy and paste from some internet site you found if it makes you feel superior. You’re not and you’re leaping to idiotic conclusions. Highly amusing!

in 1969 the Defense Department created ARPANET the forerunner of what has evolved into the "Internet" as a method to allow defense assets (computers) to communicate. ARPANET made it’s first international connection in 1973.

By 1983 the term "Internet" had become a common descriptive term for networks that user the TCP/IP protocol. in 1969 the National Science Foundation created it’s network…. NSFNET which eventually absorbed the ARPANET network…… and thus gave us what continues to evolve into what is now refered to as "The Internet".
Now, if you actually meant the USENER here where fools like you can show your lack of knowledge so openly, then allow me to quote from USENET.COM….

"Usenet was born approximately 3 decades ago, in 1979. It all began as a small communication network between a few universities in the United States used to trade information, news, and research results. It has grown from a simple design without an official structure, to a logical network linking millions of people and computers to over 100,000 different newsgroups and millions of bytes of articles. What began as two or three sites on a single network in 1979, expanded to 15 in 1980, to 150 in 1981, to 400 in 1982, to millions in 2003."
Feeling stupid yet?

Nope, you?

No, there are no stupid questions……. only stupid statements and you made one here fella! Now please crawl back under your rock troll.

Pot, kettle, black. Have a nice day, cut and paster.

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 06:13:21 -0500, scribbled:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:57:24 -0400, Voivod wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:43:49 +1000, "Ryadia"
scribbled:

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:20:45 -0500, scribbled:

Ahhhhh. Talent is the REAL agenda for you then? So you expect that

Rather arrogant of you to suppose you know me intimately enough to know my motives. Could it be you’re a bit judgmental? Why, yes, you are.

people that are not up to par should not be trying? Interesting. Maybe they aren’t looking for the talent button trather a little common courtesy and assistance. Tell me. Who DO you feel should be using this program??

Who should be using a program designed for graphics professionals that costs six times more than it’s nearest comparable competitor Paint Shop Pro? Figure it out yourself.

Were it not for the attitude of idiots like Voivod, who think they have some God given right to insult anyone with lesser skill of a program than they have… I may have become more knowledgeable about Photoshop sooner than it took me by developing skills through try-it-and-see learning.

Don’t blame me for your stupidity. Your mom probably drank when she was preggers with you.

This group is a wonderful idea. It’s a pity the people who *COULD* help others use the opportunity to chastise people and bully them for their own entertainment and amusement.

And your post here blasting and insulting me is helpful? Oh, I do so love hypocrites.

Reading the Photoshop manual does not actually enlighten someone as to how to achieve many goals. Voivod, you would do well to keep in mind that you, yourself were once a total novice and probably asked what you now consider stupid and dumb questions.

You should try actually reading my posts instead of just being another knee-jerk reactionary. ALL I stated was "TRY to help yourself first." You learn far more by figuring things out on your own than having someone hold your hand through the process.

The measure of a man’s worth is not how many others he belittled in his life but how many he helped. (my quote)

When you’ve topped out over ten thousand volunteer hours (none court imposed) and eleven years as a scouting leader, get back to me about this.

OK Let’s examine this statement…..

10000 hours Volunteering for what? Granted if you were giving your time for any worthwhile cause it shouldn’t matter. However, if you were giving your time with self-serving interests (such as a politician groping for votes) then it does make a difference.
And let’s just shake out the numbers here a tad….. See what 10000 hours really adds up to…

10,000 hours = 1.14 years, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week
10,000 hours = 1,250 working days. That’s 250 five day weeks…. or almost 5 solid years of work.

Now, considering you had to earn a living (unless you are independently wealthy which just might explain the attitude) then you had to devote an average 8 hours a day to earning a living. Add in another 10 a day for eating and sleeping… you see where I am getting at?

Now, MOST folks will consider doing volunteer work 3 days a week as a LOT. So, if you break it that way….

10000 = 416 weeks of working EIGHT hours a day, 3 times a week…. for 8 solid years!!!

Now, 24 hours a week in unpaid voluenteer work is a lot but possibly doable, I will admit that. Not likely, but plausible!

So, if you consider the same scenario at 4 hours a day….. 3 times a week you are talking this kind of schedule for 16 years….. Even more plausible but I might add still a bit to swallow when you consider this means 52 weeks a year, NO BREAKS…. 3 days a week for FOUR hours a day.

Can I say here that I am a tad skeptical at your claim of 10,000 hours voluenteer work? I will be the first to admit that I could be wrong….. but the numbers just make me think that you might be stretching the truth here just a skosh.

OK, I am back to you on this sir. Please respond. I truely hope that I can commend you on your civic dedication!

Hey, you can do math! Congratulations!

"Fat Sam" wrote in message

Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:46:38 GMT, "Fat Sam"
wrote:

pnolte wrote:

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.

What’s a kip. I googled kip.. and it is not in my manual… I think I need one right about now as I am just about ready to leave work and go on vacation for 10 days..

It sounds like you do need a kip my friend.
Having a kip means to have a sleep.
I thought it was universal English. It must be a uniquely British phrase.

So uniquely British that is even used in South Africa, Sam? English is not my home language, but everyone here knows the word whether Afrikaans or English speaking, because it is part of the local slang:-)

Dave

Perhaps it’s just not in common use where pnolte lives.

we call it a nap
what you call nappies is diapers

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:41:47 -0400, "KatWoman" wrote:

"Fat Sam" wrote in message

Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:46:38 GMT, "Fat Sam"
wrote:

pnolte wrote:

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.

What’s a kip. I googled kip.. and it is not in my manual… I think I need one right about now as I am just about ready to leave work and go on vacation for 10 days..

It sounds like you do need a kip my friend.
Having a kip means to have a sleep.
I thought it was universal English. It must be a uniquely British phrase.

So uniquely British that is even used in South Africa, Sam? English is not my home language, but everyone here knows the word whether Afrikaans or English speaking, because it is part of the local slang:-)

Dave

Perhaps it’s just not in common use where pnolte lives.

we call it a nap
what you call nappies is diapers

The word ‘nap’ is a little bit more sophisticated grammar, while ‘kip’ is slang – at least over here. I also tend to think kip fell in disuse. Heard it last when I was a kid.

Dave

Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:41:47 -0400, "KatWoman" wrote:

"Fat Sam" wrote in message

Dave wrote:

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:46:38 GMT, "Fat Sam"
wrote:

pnolte wrote:

Normally you can clear the block by going away, taking a break or having a kip then coming back with a fresh mind.

What’s a kip. I googled kip.. and it is not in my manual… I think I need one right about now as I am just about ready to leave work and go on vacation for 10 days..

It sounds like you do need a kip my friend.
Having a kip means to have a sleep.
I thought it was universal English. It must be a uniquely British phrase.

So uniquely British that is even used in South Africa, Sam? English is not my home language, but everyone here knows the word whether Afrikaans or English speaking, because it is part of the local slang:-)

Dave

Perhaps it’s just not in common use where pnolte lives.

we call it a nap
what you call nappies is diapers

The word ‘nap’ is a little bit more sophisticated grammar, while ‘kip’ is slang – at least over here. I also tend to think kip fell in disuse. Heard it last when I was a kid.

Dave

Here, a kip tends to be more of a sneaky sleep that you have in the toilet cubicle when you’re supposed to be working. As in…..

"Where’s Fat Sam? I saw him come in this morning, but he hasn’t been at his desk all day"
"Oh, you know Sam. He’s probably hungover again. You’ll probably find him having a fly kip in the bogs"

Here, a kip tends to be more of a sneaky sleep that you have in the toilet cubicle when you’re supposed to be working. As in…..

"Where’s Fat Sam? I saw him come in this morning, but he hasn’t been at his desk all day"
"Oh, you know Sam. He’s probably hungover again. You’ll probably find him having a fly kip in the bogs"

Jeeeshh, who spoke of slang:-)! Anyway, the past 3 mornings I got into bed at 2 am. Tonight I’ll make up for it – the clock is heading for 11 pm now, and I am on my way to go kip – see you in the morning.

"KatWoman" wrote …

"Waterspider" wrote in message

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?
tia

if you are thin skinned this is not the place for you
advice 1: ask nicely no matter how dumb or newb the question, this will get you better responses
advice 2: figure out the trolls here and use your blocker advice 3: yes attempt to figure stuff out on your own first advice 4: I help with stuff I know, I am not formally trained in PS, self taught, if I can help you I will, I am expert at some things and no nothing about other things, I learned a lot reading the posts, I share freely and am glad others do too. I am nice most of the time and other times I am a BITCH, I do not suffer fools well.
advice 5: keep sense of humor in tact
welcome to NG

Thanks for the welcome, Kat. Sounds like you and I have a lot in common, self-taught with bitch potential, no time spend compensating for other’s laziness, and a sense of humour.
<g>

"Talker" wrote…

"Waterspider" wrote:

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning
more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of
questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a
READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT
response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and
serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So…
what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?
tia
Waterspider

Hi there WS! I’m new to this group too, and I have found many helpful people that have offered many useful tips here. One thing that I think all newbies to Photoshop will discover is that the help files aren’t all that helpful. Yes it will tell you how a tool functions, but what it doesn’t do is to explain when to use it. There must be over 1,000 tools, filters, functions, etc. in PhotoShop, and while the helpfile might explain what the Unsharp Mask is, it doesn’t explain when to use it, how much you need to set each parameter to, etc. It just tells you what it does. The only way to know how to use it properly for a given situation is to experiment with it. The problem is, with over 1,000 tools, filters, etc. to use, no one has the time to experiment with ever tool, to see what it will do. Add to that, when you combine filters, layers, tool, etc. to achieve a certain effect that you’d never be able to discover on your own, and you’d never get any work done.
Asking in here saves time, and with so many people in here, they will give you a variety of ways to achieve your goal. I do agree that it’s always best to try and find a solution by searching the Net first, because that is usually the fastest way to get an answer. Anyway, from one newbie to another, welcome.

Thanks, Talker, it’s nice to know that I’m not the only newbie.

I agree with your take on Photoshop Help too; it’s generally useful when you shouldn’t have needed to go there in the first place.

To add to the google-for-help suggestions, it’s been my experience that not all websites provide good information. The trick is knowing which one/s will provide the best information on accomplishing your objective. A few posts here have suggested sites, and thanks for that. It saves many long hours of experimenting with "how to do x" techniques to discover that there was a better way all along.

Waterspider

"Waterspider" wrote:

<snip>

Thanks, Talker, it’s nice to know that I’m not the only newbie.
I agree with your take on Photoshop Help too; it’s generally useful when you shouldn’t have needed to go there in the first place.

To add to the google-for-help suggestions, it’s been my experience that not all websites provide good information. The trick is knowing which one/s will provide the best information on accomplishing your objective. A few posts here have suggested sites, and thanks for that. It saves many long hours of experimenting with "how to do x" techniques to discover that there was a better way all along.

Waterspider

Me, I get more information from Google than here, and Google has always be the first thing I try (before Google I used Yahoo and similar).

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 21:22:42 +0200, Dave wrote:

So uniquely British that is even used in South Africa, Sam? English is not my home language, but everyone here knows the word whether Afrikaans or English speaking, because it is part of the local slang:-)

Perhaps it’s just not in common use where pnolte lives.

we call it a nap
what you call nappies is diapers

The word ‘nap’ is a little bit more sophisticated grammar, while ‘kip’ is slang – at least over here. I also tend to think kip fell in disuse. Heard it last when I was a kid.

"Kip" is not unknown in the US. Police in certain cities refer to "kipping" or "taking a kip" when on duty when they park their squad car in an out-of-the-way place. A borrow-word from the UK, but it has some use here.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

I’ve also found that it helps to have a manual that is written in the way that I learn. When I bought PS5.5, the manual was so dry, I didn’t care much for it at all. I used it sometimes, but I went out and bought a different book.

I have had similar experience with the Adobe docs.

Always looking for a good book. What’s the title of your well-worn tome?

"Anon bozo" wrote in message

I’ve also found that it helps to have a manual that is written in the way that I learn. When I bought PS5.5, the manual was so dry, I didn’t care much for it at all. I used it sometimes, but I went out and bought a different book.

I have had similar experience with the Adobe docs.

Always looking for a good book. What’s the title of your well-worn tome?

I like The Photoshop CS Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby as an alternative to the manual, especially for beginners. It takes you through a series of fun little projects and you end up learning how to use a whole range of tools and techniques. Clear language, light tone, well laid out and lots of great illustrations.

Stay away from Photoshop CS2 Killer Tips… I picked that up on Amazon and it’s a waste of money.

On Jun 25, 1:48 pm, "Waterspider" wrote:

"Anon bozo" wrote in message

news:>> I’ve also found that it helps to have a manual that is written in the

way that I learn. When I bought PS5.5, the manual was so dry, I didn’t care much for it at all. I used it sometimes, but I went out and bought a different book.

I have had similar experience with the Adobe docs.

Always looking for a good book. What’s the title of your well-worn tome?

I like The Photoshop CS Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby as an alternative to the manual, especially for beginners. It takes you through a series of fun little projects and you end up learning how to use a whole range of tools and techniques. Clear language, light tone, well laid out and lots of great illustrations.

Stay away from Photoshop CS2 Killer Tips… I picked that up on Amazon and it’s a waste of money.

I was going to reply directly to the question as well, but this is the book I am using too. His writing style is fun, with the little jokes and fun titles. It makes it a lot more interesting to read than just a dry manual.

And he gives examples of settings that work well for the project at hand, giving a nice starting point for experimenting on my own photos. I have picked up many new techniques and refined a few that I was already using. The instructions are well written and the photo examples are helpful.

I need to go back and reread several sections. It was a great read the first time, but I couldn’t take it all in at once. I go back when I am looking up a specific topic, but I would like to reread more of it and pick up even more.

wrote in message

On Jun 25, 1:48 pm, "Waterspider" wrote:

"Anon bozo" wrote in message

news:>> I’ve also
found that it helps to have a manual that is written in the

way that I learn. When I bought PS5.5, the manual was so dry, I didn’t care much for it at all. I used it sometimes, but I went out and bought a different book.

I have had similar experience with the Adobe docs.

Always looking for a good book. What’s the title of your well-worn tome?

I like The Photoshop CS Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby as an
alternative to the manual, especially for beginners. It takes you through a
series of fun little projects and you end up learning how to use a whole range of tools and techniques. Clear language, light tone, well laid out and
lots of great illustrations.

Stay away from Photoshop CS2 Killer Tips… I picked that up on Amazon and
it’s a waste of money.

I was going to reply directly to the question as well, but this is the book I am using too. His writing style is fun, with the little jokes and fun titles. It makes it a lot more interesting to read than just a dry manual.

And he gives examples of settings that work well for the project at hand, giving a nice starting point for experimenting on my own photos. I have picked up many new techniques and refined a few that I was already using. The instructions are well written and the photo examples are helpful.

I need to go back and reread several sections. It was a great read the first time, but I couldn’t take it all in at once. I go back when I am looking up a specific topic, but I would like to reread more of it and pick up even more.

Which is exactly what a good book should be doing four you. Adobe should hire Kirby to write their manuals. Oh yeah, and you and I too, as test-readers. <g>

On Jun 26, 12:48 am, "Waterspider" wrote:

wrote in message

On Jun 25, 1:48 pm, "Waterspider" wrote:

"Anon bozo" wrote in message

news:>> I’ve also
found that it helps to have a manual that is written in the

way that I learn. When I bought PS5.5, the manual was so dry, I didn’t care much for it at all. I used it sometimes, but I went out and bought a different book.

I have had similar experience with the Adobe docs.

Always looking for a good book. What’s the title of your well-worn tome?

I like The Photoshop CS Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby as an
alternative to the manual, especially for beginners. It takes you through a
series of fun little projects and you end up learning how to use a whole range of tools and techniques. Clear language, light tone, well laid out and
lots of great illustrations.

Stay away from Photoshop CS2 Killer Tips… I picked that up on Amazon and
it’s a waste of money.

I was going to reply directly to the question as well, but this is the book I am using too. His writing style is fun, with the little jokes and fun titles. It makes it a lot more interesting to read than just a dry manual.

And he gives examples of settings that work well for the project at hand, giving a nice starting point for experimenting on my own photos. I have picked up many new techniques and refined a few that I was already using. The instructions are well written and the photo examples are helpful.

I need to go back and reread several sections. It was a great read the first time, but I couldn’t take it all in at once. I go back when I am looking up a specific topic, but I would like to reread more of it and pick up even more.

Which is exactly what a good book should be doing four you. Adobe should hire Kirby to write their manuals. Oh yeah, and you and I too, as test-readers. <g>

Yes. It’s definitely a lot better than the manuals, though I haven’t seen the manual for CS2. I upgraded from 5.5 to CS2 via the online option, so no manual included. It was a pretty big jump, so I knew I needed a manual just to see what the newer features are.

I went to the bookstore and spent about half an hour looking over several shelves of photoshop books. I wanted something that woudl work well for my learning style and also for my needs. Being a photographer, this was more geared for the things I need to learn, and his style works well for me. I do plan to look at a few more of his books.

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:26:17 -0700, ""
wrote:

On Jun 25, 1:48 pm, "Waterspider"

Always looking for a good book. What’s the title of your well-worn tome?

I like The Photoshop CS Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby as an alternative to the manual, especially for beginners. It takes you through a series of fun little projects and you end up learning how to use a whole range of tools and techniques. Clear language, light tone, well laid out and lots of great illustrations.

Stay away from Photoshop CS2 Killer Tips… I picked that up on Amazon and it’s a waste of money.

I was going to reply directly to the question as well, but this is the book I am using too. His writing style is fun, with the little jokes and fun titles. It makes it a lot more interesting to read than just a dry manual.

Interesting how peoples views and tastes differ.
On this same newsgroup, a lady advised me against the same book and suggested Martin Evening’s version of it (the CS2 version) because, (she said) Scott Kelby try to be to funny even when he should be serious.

I bought ‘Adobe Photoshop CS2 for Photographers by Martin Evening’ and it is good. I followed her advise because she is quite clever, very good with PS, shared the groups liking for cameras and shared the groups dislike for Voivod etc. And she left the newsgroup with a hole in it when she disappeared from it.

I downloaded a tutorial or 2 from Scott Kelby, and liked the way it was written, but do not regret the Martin Evening’s version.

Dave

Fresian

I like The Photoshop CS Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby as an alternative to the manual, especially for beginners.

Waterspider
. Adobe should hire Kirby to write their manuals. Oh yeah, and you and I too, as test-readers. <g>

This is kind of funny. Read it and enjoy it, group:-)

Dave

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:25 +0200, Dave scribbled:

PS, shared the groups liking for cameras and shared the
groups dislike for Voivod etc.

Fans! Fans everywhere! You idiots can’t go a week without mentioning me or speaking in big, bullshit, generalizations.

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:04:51 -0400, Voivod wrote:

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:25 +0200, Dave scribbled:

PS, shared the groups liking for cameras and shared the
groups dislike for Voivod etc.

Fans! Fans everywhere! You idiots can’t go a week without mentioning me or speaking in big, bullshit, generalizations.

LOL… rather negative publicity than no publicity:-)

Dave

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:25 +0200, Dave scribbled:

PS, shared the groups liking for cameras and shared the
groups dislike for Voivod etc.

Fans! Fans everywhere! You idiots can’t go a week without mentioning me or speaking in big, bullshit, generalizations.

I’m thinking you’d better do something to offend my sensibilities or whatever it is you’ve done to irritate so many people here. So far I haven’t got a reason to join the Dislike Voivod clique 🙁

Waterspider wrote:

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:25 +0200, Dave scribbled:

PS, shared the groups liking for cameras and shared the
groups dislike for Voivod etc.

Fans! Fans everywhere! You idiots can’t go a week without mentioning me or speaking in big, bullshit, generalizations.

I’m thinking you’d better do something to offend my sensibilities or whatever it is you’ve done to irritate so many people here. So far I haven’t got a reason to join the Dislike Voivod clique 🙁

I don’t like or dislike Voivod.
I have no feelings either way to be honest. I can see how he rubs some folks the wrong way on usenet, but I’m not going to fall out with him over it, as life’s too short for that. I’ll just have a pop back if he has a go at me, and the next day I’ll have put it behind me, forgotten all about it, and gotten on with my life.
You see, I’ve learned over the years that there’s little point in getting bothered or upset by the way people portray themselves on usenet. 99% of the time, all you’re seeing is a fabricated persona that bears little or no resemblance to their real life persona.

—
http://www.norfolklupus.co.uk
http://www.thebooknook.co.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40919519@N00/

Interesting how peoples views and tastes differ.
On this same newsgroup, a lady advised me against the same book and suggested Martin Evening’s version of it (the CS2 version) because, (she said) Scott Kelby try to be to funny even when he should be serious.

And that is why I spent half an hour looking at the books before buying. People have different learning styles, and we tend to teach in the same style we learn. So, we learn better from those who use the same style. I’m sure most of the books are good, just necessarily good for me 🙂

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:41:49 -0700, "Waterspider" scribbled:

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:25 +0200, Dave scribbled:

PS, shared the groups liking for cameras and shared the
groups dislike for Voivod etc.

Fans! Fans everywhere! You idiots can’t go a week without mentioning me or speaking in big, bullshit, generalizations.

I’m thinking you’d better do something to offend my sensibilities or whatever it is you’ve done to irritate so many people here. So far I haven’t got a reason to join the Dislike Voivod clique 🙁

I’m frank and speak my mind. ‘long as you don’t act like an imbecile we won’t have a problem.

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:07:34 GMT, "Fat Sam"
scribbled:

Waterspider wrote:

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:25 +0200, Dave scribbled:

PS, shared the groups liking for cameras and shared the
groups dislike for Voivod etc.

Fans! Fans everywhere! You idiots can’t go a week without mentioning me or speaking in big, bullshit, generalizations.

I’m thinking you’d better do something to offend my sensibilities or whatever it is you’ve done to irritate so many people here. So far I haven’t got a reason to join the Dislike Voivod clique 🙁

I don’t like or dislike Voivod.
I have no feelings either way to be honest. I can see how he rubs some folks the wrong way on usenet, but I’m not going to fall out with him over it, as life’s too short for that. I’ll just have a pop back if he has a go at me, and the next day I’ll have put it behind me, forgotten all about it, and gotten on with my life.
You see, I’ve learned over the years that there’s little point in getting bothered or upset by the way people portray themselves on usenet. 99% of the time, all you’re seeing is a fabricated persona that bears little or no resemblance to their real life persona.

Sadly, this is me… unless you’re a Hells Angel, Marine Recon, Navy Seal, etc. then I’m rather polite…

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:05:21 -0400, Voivod wrote:

I’m frank and speak my mind.

Short speech.

—

Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:30:30 -0400, tony cooper
scribbled:

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:05:21 -0400, Voivod wrote:

I’m frank and speak my mind.

Short speech.

I didn’t want to confuse you with large words or abstract concepts.

Voivod wrote:

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:07:34 GMT, "Fat Sam"
scribbled:

Waterspider wrote:

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:25 +0200, Dave scribbled:

PS, shared the groups liking for cameras and shared the
groups dislike for Voivod etc.

Fans! Fans everywhere! You idiots can’t go a week without mentioning me or speaking in big, bullshit, generalizations.

I’m thinking you’d better do something to offend my sensibilities or whatever it is you’ve done to irritate so many people here. So far I haven’t got a reason to join the Dislike Voivod clique 🙁

I don’t like or dislike Voivod.
I have no feelings either way to be honest. I can see how he rubs some folks the wrong way on usenet, but I’m not going to fall out with him over it, as life’s too short for that. I’ll just have a pop back if he has a go at me, and the next day I’ll have put it behind me, forgotten all about it, and gotten on with my life.
You see, I’ve learned over the years that there’s little point in getting bothered or upset by the way people portray themselves on usenet. 99% of the time, all you’re seeing is a fabricated persona that bears little or no resemblance to their real life persona.

Sadly, this is me… unless you’re a Hells Angel, Marine Recon, Navy Seal,

None of the above. I’m ex-air force, and I’m proud to be Irish.

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:41:49 -0700, "Waterspider" scribbled:

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:34:25 +0200, Dave scribbled:

PS, shared the groups liking for cameras and shared the
groups dislike for Voivod etc.

Fans! Fans everywhere! You idiots can’t go a week without mentioning me or speaking in big, bullshit, generalizations.

I’m thinking you’d better do something to offend my sensibilities or whatever it is you’ve done to irritate so many people here. So far I haven’t
got a reason to join the Dislike Voivod clique 🙁

I’m frank and speak my mind. ‘long as you don’t act like an imbecile we won’t have a problem.

Back at ya.

In article , says…

I’ve been using Photoshop for some years now but I’m interested in learning more, and better, techniques. So, I’ve been lurking for a couple of weeks but holy mackrel you guys are intimidating. Maybe I’ve even got a couple of questions, but I daren’t post them for fear of a READTHEFUCKINGMANUALSHITWIT response. I am not a "pro" user; my skills are in layout and copywriting, and I’m an amature photographer. So, if you guys are seriously advanced and serious about advanced-only discussion, I obviously don’t belong here. So… what’s the program in alt.graphics.photoshop?

tia

Waterspider

If you have questions, do not hesitate to ask them. As has been stated, the manuals and F1 can be a tad daunting, especially if one does not know the exact terminology to use the Search function efficiently. I’ve used PS since it first hit the PC, come from a career of advertising photography, custom analog lab assembly of images, graphic design and I still ponder over a few of the terms. Often the old ones, like Rubylith have been replaced by Masks. No big deal, if you can figure that one out, but not so easy, if you do not make the connection.

If your question is easily answered in the manual, F1, or CiaBook, the respondent should be smart, and kind enough, to point you to the correct terms, and maybe even the location. If not, then it is their loss.

Too often, the same basic questions get asked, "how do I put someone else’s head on a body?" and a quick Google (or similar) search would turn up tutorials and a myriad of answers.

As with any program of the range of PS, one should first do a search, and Google Groups of this, and the non-alt variant of the NG would be a good starting place. Next, they should provide the detail necessary for people here to help, especially if it’s a technical, rather than artistic question. If you get error messages about Scratch Disks, copy down the error messages, and then list your HDD system data: 4-500GB SATAIIs w/ F:\ as my Scratch Disk and 450GB free…

The more info that you can provide, the easier it is for someone to help you. If you can upload the image in question to a Web site, and provide a URL, the easier it might be for someone to help you.

Last – welcome. Do not hesitate to use this NG with your questions. Be warned, that some will not be as helpful as others and that your simple question might well devolve into a debate on some abstract aspect, that you never anticipated. Happens all of the time.

Hunt

In article , says…

"Anon bozo" wrote in message

I’ve also found that it helps to have a manual that is written in the way that I learn. When I bought PS5.5, the manual was so dry, I didn’t care much for it at all. I used it sometimes, but I went out and bought a different book.

I have had similar experience with the Adobe docs.

Always looking for a good book. What’s the title of your well-worn tome?

I like The Photoshop CS Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby as an alternative to the manual, especially for beginners. It takes you through a series of fun little projects and you end up learning how to use a whole range of tools and techniques. Clear language, light tone, well laid out and lots of great illustrations.

Stay away from Photoshop CS2 Killer Tips… I picked that up on Amazon and it’s a waste of money.

Though I am less a fan of some of the books out there (Deke McClellan for instance), Kelby’s books are full of useful info. I find him a bit too much of a humourist, than is necessary, but still full of good tips.

Again, do not dismiss this and the other PS NG. Just plan on learning who is likely to be able to help you. Ignore the rest and let them be.

Hunt

In article ,
says…

On Jun 26, 12:48 am, "Waterspider" wrote:

wrote in message

On Jun 25, 1:48 pm, "Waterspider" wrote:

"Anon bozo" wrote in message

news:>> I’ve also
found that it helps to have a manual that is written in the

way that I learn. When I bought PS5.5, the manual was so dry, I

didn’t

care much for it at all. I used it sometimes, but I went out and bought a different book.

I have had similar experience with the Adobe docs.

Always looking for a good book. What’s the title of your well-worn tome?

I like The Photoshop CS Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby as an
alternative to the manual, especially for beginners. It takes you

through

a
series of fun little projects and you end up learning how to use a whole range of tools and techniques. Clear language, light tone, well laid out and
lots of great illustrations.

Stay away from Photoshop CS2 Killer Tips… I picked that up on Amazon and
it’s a waste of money.

I was going to reply directly to the question as well, but this is the book I am using too. His writing style is fun, with the little jokes and fun titles. It makes it a lot more interesting to read than just a dry manual.

And he gives examples of settings that work well for the project at hand, giving a nice starting point for experimenting on my own photos. I have picked up many new techniques and refined a few that I was already using. The instructions are well written and the photo examples are helpful.

I need to go back and reread several sections. It was a great read the first time, but I couldn’t take it all in at once. I go back when I am looking up a specific topic, but I would like to reread more of it and pick up even more.

Which is exactly what a good book should be doing four you. Adobe should hire Kirby to write their manuals. Oh yeah, and you and I too, as test-readers. <g>

Yes. It’s definitely a lot better than the manuals, though I haven’t seen the manual for CS2. I upgraded from 5.5 to CS2 via the online option, so no manual included. It was a pretty big jump, so I knew I needed a manual just to see what the newer features are.
I went to the bookstore and spent about half an hour looking over several shelves of photoshop books. I wanted something that woudl work well for my learning style and also for my needs. Being a photographer, this was more geared for the things I need to learn, and his style works well for me. I do plan to look at a few more of his books.

For whatever reason, the CS upgrade did not come with manuals, even the full- tilt Premium, or whatever it was called. I ordered up the full set of manuals, and felt a tad ripped off, compared to all earlier versions (did not do the
5.5, but that was the only one that I have missed over decades).

When I get a new Adobe program, I always grab the CiaB for it. While not a substitute for the manual, they offer a lot of tips on the new interfaces and the new Effects. Same with all of Adobe’s AV programs, as well. I keep Adobe Press in $.

For photographers working with PS, I strongly recommend Ben Wilmore’s books (usually "Studio Techniques for Photoshop XX"). As stated, Kelby is good, with different things, as well.

Hunt

In article , says…

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:26:17 -0700, ""
wrote:

On Jun 25, 1:48 pm, "Waterspider"

Always looking for a good book. What’s the title of your well-worn tome?

I like The Photoshop CS Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby as

an

alternative to the manual, especially for beginners. It takes you through

a

series of fun little projects and you end up learning how to use a whole range of tools and techniques. Clear language, light tone, well laid out

and

lots of great illustrations.

Stay away from Photoshop CS2 Killer Tips… I picked that up on Amazon and it’s a waste of money.

I was going to reply directly to the question as well, but this is the book I am using too. His writing style is fun, with the little jokes and fun titles. It makes it a lot more interesting to read than just a dry manual.

Interesting how peoples views and tastes differ.
On this same newsgroup, a lady advised me against the same book and suggested Martin Evening’s version of it (the CS2 version) because, (she said) Scott Kelby try to be to funny even when he should be serious.

I bought ‘Adobe Photoshop CS2 for Photographers by Martin Evening’ and it is good. I followed her advise because she is quite clever, very good with PS, shared the groups liking for cameras and shared the groups dislike for Voivod etc. And she left the newsgroup with a hole in it when she disappeared from it.

I downloaded a tutorial or 2 from Scott Kelby, and liked the way it was written, but do not regret the Martin Evening’s version.
Dave

I found that Kelby thought of himself as the next Dave Barry (if you are not in the US, the name might not register – used to do syndicated humour column for the Miami Herald), but his tips are very good. I overlook the humour and just go for the meat. Even after having used PS on a commercial basis for decades, I learned something new in each chapter – and something worthwhile.

Hunt

I found that Kelby thought of himself as the next Dave Barry (if you are not
in the US, the name might not register – used to do syndicated humour column
for the Miami Herald), but his tips are very good. I overlook the humour and
just go for the meat. Even after having used PS on a commercial basis for decades, I learned something new in each chapter – and something worthwhile.

Hunt

Though some find Kelby’s humor a little annoying, I think he does a very good job of making a "manual" interesting and does so in a way the both experienced PS pros and novices alike learn. This also seems to be a common trait of all of the NAPP personnel.
Rob

"Scubabix" wrote in message
….

Though some find Kelby’s humor a little annoying, I think he does a very good job of making a "manual" interesting and does so in a way the both experienced PS pros and novices alike learn. This also seems to be a common trait of all of the NAPP personnel.

Agreed. I’ve been to one of Kelby’s presentations. He keeps the audience entertained and awake, and sprinkles the presentation with new information, including techniques and keyboard shortcuts, to keep even technically advanced people interested. Although I understand those who would rather cut to the chase, I think it’s a good way to address a large group of people with a variety of experience.

Those who like a more straight ahead, deeper, approach may appreciate Dan Margulis’s work and presentations on color correction.
—
Mike Russell – www.curvemeister.com

In article <HhWJi.1515$>, RE-
says…

"Scubabix" wrote in message
…

Though some find Kelby’s humor a little annoying, I think he does a very good job of making a "manual" interesting and does so in a way the both experienced PS pros and novices alike learn. This also seems to be a common trait of all of the NAPP personnel.

Agreed. I’ve been to one of Kelby’s presentations. He keeps the audience entertained and awake, and sprinkles the presentation with new information, including techniques and keyboard shortcuts, to keep even technically advanced people interested. Although I understand those who would rather cut to the chase, I think it’s a good way to address a large group of people with a variety of experience.

Those who like a more straight ahead, deeper, approach may appreciate Dan Margulis’s work and presentations on color correction.
—
Mike Russell – www.curvemeister.com

Personally, I’ve enjoyed the presentations from Margulis, a bit more, than from Kelby, though I do read and refer to Kelby quite often. Another presenter, who I enjoy is Ben Wilmore. Of the majors, I am less inclined to attend a seminar held by Deke McClelland, as I have found him to be a "smoke n’ mirrors" sort. The others do a better job of getting real PS techniques to the masses, IMO.

Hunt