Colour matching problem…advice appreciated

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message

OK..I’ve been reading as much as I can on colour management and slowly coming to grips with it, but I’m still having some issues matching the print with what I see on my monitor….so would appreciate some help. I’m running Photoshop CS2, monitor is LG studioworks 900B CRT and my printer is an Epson Stylus Photo R310. Of course my problem (like so many others seem to be having from what I’ve researched)) is matching the final print with what I see on my monitor. Before I go out and buy Spyder2 hardware (assuming this would help solve the problem?) I’d like some further help. Here’s what I’ve done:

The Spyder will calibrate your monitor accurately, and if it doesn’t put too much of a dent in the budget, is probably worth it. However, Adobe Gamma works just fine with a CRT, and my recommendation would be to save your money.

1. Calibrated my monitor using Adobe Gamma…and saved the profile as default.
2. Open a photo in Photoshop and edit as required.

So far so good.

3. Soft proof using Kodak Premium Ultra Glossy paper (I purchased a 50 sheet box in a sale…so haven’t tried Epson paper yet).

Using third party materials, even from a reputable manufacturer, is sticking your neck out just a bit. I imagine your printer came with several sample sheets of paper? If so, try using those first to see how well the 310 matches your monitor, or get some Epson glossy photo paper. Costco has it at a very reasonable price.

Clicking on "simulate paper colour" makes the image slightly darker, so I guess I need to lighten the image slightly so that the final print is similar to what I see on the screen? I’ve also tried soft proofing using the Epson paper profiles..sometimes more or less successfully as far as the final print goes.

This is a common misconception about soft proofing. The soft proof will always look dark and dingy compared to what you see on the monitor. The idea of soft proofing is to anticipate problems with that particular ink / paper combination for that particular print, or to compare the appearance of different final media. The soft proof is not intended to be the image that you use to make your final edits in – for that use your monitor, then print and trust to the printer profile and driver for the conversion to .

4. I click "Print Preview and select: "let Photoshop determine colours", "Perceptual" and the Kodak paper profile…(also tried the Epson profile for Glossy paper)

For the majority of images, use Relative Colorimetric instead of Perceptual.

5. Click "print"…select "Best photo" quality, "Glossy Paper" in the
drop-down list. Also tried with and without "high speed printing" option.

Also make sure the dpi setting is maxxed out.

6. Click "advanced" which leads to extra printing choices. Now..if (as suggested in an "Epson Workflow" pdf I have) I click on ICM and check "No colour management"

That’s fine – keep in mind that you can also have the printer determine the colors, and configure the printer driver in Printer Properties to use the profile.

and then print the photo, the photo is diffeent from the monitor..sometimes with a pinkish hue. If I leave the colour settings as normal, but all colours to "0" (which I read on another website I should do, as they said that "no colour management" doesn’t produce good results with Epsom printers) then the print matches more what I see on the screen., but not as accurate as I’d like. So..the results seem to vary somewhat.

My first thought on hearing that an Epson has a magenta tint is that you are double profiling your printer – applying the profile twice in your print path somehow. From what you say, this seems not to be the case here,, but check carefully.

I’ve downloaded a number of tutorials/workflows etc on this subject but am getting quite frustrated with this. Other than having a photo lab print my photos I’d really like to be able to take control of this as well as having the skills to do it at home. If anyone can point me in the direction of further tutorials…settings etc I’d be very grateful. I hope this all makes

Absolutely. There is a way to systematically adjust your printer color using a gray target. Someone else asked about this earlier, and here is the procedure. Note that although it’s important to calibrate your monitor carefully, you can calibrate your printer independent of your monitor to print a neutral gray as follows:

1) Set the driver to PhotoEnhance mode, and print a gray step wedge and verify that there is little or no color cast in the shadows and midtones. Here is a sample step wedge that you can download:
http://www.curvemeister.com/downloads/TestStrip/digital_test _strip.htm

2) If there is no color cast, you’re done. As you print each step wedge, mark it with the date and settings so that you do not repeat any work. You will save several trees if you print the step wedge in the top inch or so of the page, and you can snip it off, and re-use the same sheet many times. Keep in mind that the lighting conditions will change the color appearance, as will drying time..

3) If there is a color cast, you have two choices. Either experiment with the various paper profiles that are available – if you’re luck you’ll find one that gives you a neutral test strip, or adjust the color sliders in the driver.

4) to adjust the colors in the driver, first determine whether the overall test strip is too light or too dark. Use your monitor for comparing the overall brightness of the print. In addition, you should just be able to distinguish all of the steps in the step wedge. In addition, if the dark ones blur together, your printer is printing too dark, if the light ones can’t be distinguished, your printer is printing too light. Next, determine the color of the color cast, and whether it is too warm or too cold.

5) based on your determinations in step 4, either back off on the color sliders (if the image was too dark) or add color (if the image was too light). In general terms, adding magenta and/or yellow make the image warmer, and subtracting them make the image cooler. Cyan is the opposite. Suppose, as was the case with the last Epson that I did this with, the image is too dark, and the step wedge has a pink cast to it. For this, you would back off on the magenta slider, about 6 units, and print your next step wedge. Remember to mark all the settings on each strip as you print them. This forms the basis of your systematic correction of the print appearance, and you may want to backtrack the next day as you see how the prints look when fully dried.

5) you’ll be able to tell if you’ve overshot or not, and make adjustments accordingly, until you zero in on a step wedge that is the closest possible to neutral. Sometimes the step wedge will be warm in the shadows, and cool in the highlights, or vice versa, and this is an indication that you are about as close as you can get with this method, which should be pretty darn close.

Keep your test strips in a folder for later reference. Down the road, if you switch inks or paper, you can use your accumulation of test strips to help predict your next set of adjustments. There are good services that will create a profile for you, and they are an economical alternative to spending a small fortune on printer calibration equipment. Software based packages – Wiziwyg is one – that use a scanner to read a test print are hit and miss – I don’t recommend them, but for dye based printers they sometimes work very well.
—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message

OK..I’ve been reading as much as I can on colour management and slowly coming to grips with it, but I’m still having some issues matching the print with what I see on my monitor….so would appreciate some help. I’m running Photoshop CS2, monitor is LG studioworks 900B CRT and my printer is an Epson Stylus Photo R310. Of course my problem (like so many others seem to be having from what I’ve researched)) is matching the final print with what I see on my monitor. Before I go out and buy Spyder2 hardware (assuming this would help solve the problem?) I’d like some further help. Here’s what I’ve done:

The Spyder will calibrate your monitor accurately, and if it doesn’t put too much of a dent in the budget, is probably worth it. However, Adobe Gamma works just fine with a CRT, and my recommendation would be to save your money.

1. Calibrated my monitor using Adobe Gamma…and saved the profile as default.
2. Open a photo in Photoshop and edit as required.

So far so good.

3. Soft proof using Kodak Premium Ultra Glossy paper (I purchased a 50 sheet box in a sale…so haven’t tried Epson paper yet).

Using third party materials, even from a reputable manufacturer, is sticking your neck out just a bit. I imagine your printer came with several sample sheets of paper? If so, try using those first to see how well the 310 matches your monitor, or get some Epson glossy photo paper. Costco has it at a very reasonable price.

Clicking on "simulate paper colour" makes the image slightly darker, so I guess I need to lighten the image slightly so that the final print is similar to what I see on the screen? I’ve also tried soft proofing using the Epson paper profiles..sometimes more or less successfully as far as the final print goes.

This is a common misconception about soft proofing. The soft proof will always look dark and dingy compared to what you see on the monitor. The idea of soft proofing is to anticipate problems with that particular ink / paper combination for that particular print, or to compare the appearance of different final media. The soft proof is not intended to be the image that you use to make your final edits in – for that use your monitor, then print and trust to the printer profile and driver for the conversion to .

4. I click "Print Preview and select: "let Photoshop determine colours", "Perceptual" and the Kodak paper profile…(also tried the Epson profile for Glossy paper)

For the majority of images, use Relative Colorimetric instead of Perceptual.

5. Click "print"…select "Best photo" quality, "Glossy Paper" in the
drop-down list. Also tried with and without "high speed printing" option.

Also make sure the dpi setting is maxxed out.

6. Click "advanced" which leads to extra printing choices. Now..if (as suggested in an "Epson Workflow" pdf I have) I click on ICM and check "No colour management"

That’s fine – keep in mind that you can also have the printer determine the colors, and configure the printer driver in Printer Properties to use the profile.

and then print the photo, the photo is diffeent from the monitor..sometimes with a pinkish hue. If I leave the colour settings as normal, but all colours to "0" (which I read on another website I should do, as they said that "no colour management" doesn’t produce good results with Epsom printers) then the print matches more what I see on the screen., but not as accurate as I’d like. So..the results seem to vary somewhat.

My first thought on hearing that an Epson has a magenta tint is that you are double profiling your printer – applying the profile twice in your print path somehow. From what you say, this seems not to be the case here,, but check carefully.

I’ve downloaded a number of tutorials/workflows etc on this subject but am getting quite frustrated with this. Other than having a photo lab print my photos I’d really like to be able to take control of this as well as having the skills to do it at home. If anyone can point me in the direction of further tutorials…settings etc I’d be very grateful. I hope this all makes

Absolutely. There is a way to systematically adjust your printer color using a gray target. Someone else asked about this earlier, and here is the procedure. Note that although it’s important to calibrate your monitor carefully, you can calibrate your printer independent of your monitor to print a neutral gray as follows:

1) Set the driver to PhotoEnhance mode, and print a gray step wedge and verify that there is little or no color cast in the shadows and midtones. Here is a sample step wedge that you can download:
http://www.curvemeister.com/downloads/TestStrip/digital_test _strip.htm
2) If there is no color cast, you’re done. As you print each step wedge, mark it with the date and settings so that you do not repeat any work. You will save several trees if you print the step wedge in the top inch or so of the page, and you can snip it off, and re-use the same sheet many times. Keep in mind that the lighting conditions will change the color appearance, as will drying time..

3) If there is a color cast, you have two choices. Either experiment with the various paper profiles that are available – if you’re luck you’ll find one that gives you a neutral test strip, or adjust the color sliders in the driver.

4) to adjust the colors in the driver, first determine whether the overall test strip is too light or too dark. Use your monitor for comparing the overall brightness of the print. In addition, you should just be able to distinguish all of the steps in the step wedge. In addition, if the dark ones blur together, your printer is printing too dark, if the light ones can’t be distinguished, your printer is printing too light. Next, determine the color of the color cast, and whether it is too warm or too cold.

5) based on your determinations in step 4, either back off on the color sliders (if the image was too dark) or add color (if the image was too light). In general terms, adding magenta and/or yellow make the image warmer, and subtracting them make the image cooler. Cyan is the opposite. Suppose, as was the case with the last Epson that I did this with, the image is too dark, and the step wedge has a pink cast to it. For this, you would back off on the magenta slider, about 6 units, and print your next step wedge. Remember to mark all the settings on each strip as you print them. This forms the basis of your systematic correction of the print appearance, and you may want to backtrack the next day as you see how the prints look when fully dried.

5) you’ll be able to tell if you’ve overshot or not, and make adjustments accordingly, until you zero in on a step wedge that is the closest possible to neutral. Sometimes the step wedge will be warm in the shadows, and cool in the highlights, or vice versa, and this is an indication that you are about as close as you can get with this method, which should be pretty darn close.

Keep your test strips in a folder for later reference. Down the road, if you switch inks or paper, you can use your accumulation of test strips to help predict your next set of adjustments. There are good services that will create a profile for you, and they are an economical alternative to spending a small fortune on printer calibration equipment. Software based packages – Wiziwyg is one – that use a scanner to read a test print are hit and miss – I don’t recommend them, but for dye based printers they sometimes work very well.
—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Hi Mike,
Thank you so much for your quick and comprehensive reply….I very much appreciate it. I will take all of your advice on board and try what you suggest. The "double" profiling you mention is interesting..not sure if I’m doing that though. How would I check that? Is that after clicking the "Print" button after making the settings in the "Print preview dialogue box? In any event I’ll buy some Epson paper…and a few of my inks which are running out!
Life definitely wasn’t meant to be easy!:) Thanks again. Paul

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message

OK..I’ve been reading as much as I can on colour management and slowly coming to grips with it, but I’m still having some issues matching the print with what I see on my monitor….so would appreciate some help. I’m running Photoshop CS2, monitor is LG studioworks 900B CRT and my printer is an Epson Stylus Photo R310. Of course my problem (like so many others seem to be having from what I’ve researched)) is matching the final print with what I see on my monitor. Before I go out and buy Spyder2 hardware (assuming this would help solve the problem?) I’d like some further help. Here’s what I’ve done:

The Spyder will calibrate your monitor accurately, and if it doesn’t put too much of a dent in the budget, is probably worth it. However, Adobe Gamma works just fine with a CRT, and my recommendation would be to save your money.

1. Calibrated my monitor using Adobe Gamma…and saved the profile as default.
2. Open a photo in Photoshop and edit as required.

So far so good.

3. Soft proof using Kodak Premium Ultra Glossy paper (I purchased a 50 sheet box in a sale…so haven’t tried Epson paper yet).

Using third party materials, even from a reputable manufacturer, is sticking your neck out just a bit. I imagine your printer came with several sample sheets of paper? If so, try using those first to see how well the 310 matches your monitor, or get some Epson glossy photo paper. Costco has it at a very reasonable price.

Clicking on "simulate paper colour" makes the image slightly darker, so I guess I need to lighten the image slightly so that the final print is similar to what I see on the screen? I’ve also tried soft proofing using the Epson paper profiles..sometimes more or less successfully as far as the final print goes.

This is a common misconception about soft proofing. The soft proof will always look dark and dingy compared to what you see on the monitor. The idea of soft proofing is to anticipate problems with that particular ink / paper combination for that particular print, or to compare the appearance of different final media. The soft proof is not intended to be the image that you use to make your final edits in – for that use your monitor, then print and trust to the printer profile and driver for the conversion to .

4. I click "Print Preview and select: "let Photoshop determine colours", "Perceptual" and the Kodak paper profile…(also tried the Epson profile for Glossy paper)

For the majority of images, use Relative Colorimetric instead of Perceptual.

5. Click "print"…select "Best photo" quality, "Glossy Paper" in the
drop-down list. Also tried with and without "high speed printing" option.

Also make sure the dpi setting is maxxed out.

6. Click "advanced" which leads to extra printing choices. Now..if (as suggested in an "Epson Workflow" pdf I have) I click on ICM and check "No colour management"

That’s fine – keep in mind that you can also have the printer determine the colors, and configure the printer driver in Printer Properties to use the profile.

and then print the photo, the photo is diffeent from the monitor..sometimes with a pinkish hue. If I leave the colour settings as normal, but all colours to "0" (which I read on another website I should do, as they said that "no colour management" doesn’t produce good results with Epsom printers) then the print matches more what I see on the screen., but not as accurate as I’d like. So..the results seem to vary somewhat.

My first thought on hearing that an Epson has a magenta tint is that you are double profiling your printer – applying the profile twice in your print path somehow. From what you say, this seems not to be the case here,, but check carefully.

I’ve downloaded a number of tutorials/workflows etc on this subject but am getting quite frustrated with this. Other than having a photo lab print my photos I’d really like to be able to take control of this as well as having the skills to do it at home. If anyone can point me in the direction of further tutorials…settings etc I’d be very grateful. I hope this all makes

Absolutely. There is a way to systematically adjust your printer color using a gray target. Someone else asked about this earlier, and here is the procedure. Note that although it’s important to calibrate your monitor carefully, you can calibrate your printer independent of your monitor to print a neutral gray as follows:

1) Set the driver to PhotoEnhance mode, and print a gray step wedge and verify that there is little or no color cast in the shadows and midtones. Here is a sample step wedge that you can download:
http://www.curvemeister.com/downloads/TestStrip/digital_test _strip.htm
2) If there is no color cast, you’re done. As you print each step wedge, mark it with the date and settings so that you do not repeat any work. You will save several trees if you print the step wedge in the top inch or so of the page, and you can snip it off, and re-use the same sheet many times. Keep in mind that the lighting conditions will change the color appearance, as will drying time..

3) If there is a color cast, you have two choices. Either experiment with the various paper profiles that are available – if you’re luck you’ll find one that gives you a neutral test strip, or adjust the color sliders in the driver.

4) to adjust the colors in the driver, first determine whether the overall test strip is too light or too dark. Use your monitor for comparing the overall brightness of the print. In addition, you should just be able to distinguish all of the steps in the step wedge. In addition, if the dark ones blur together, your printer is printing too dark, if the light ones can’t be distinguished, your printer is printing too light. Next, determine the color of the color cast, and whether it is too warm or too cold.

5) based on your determinations in step 4, either back off on the color sliders (if the image was too dark) or add color (if the image was too light). In general terms, adding magenta and/or yellow make the image warmer, and subtracting them make the image cooler. Cyan is the opposite. Suppose, as was the case with the last Epson that I did this with, the image is too dark, and the step wedge has a pink cast to it. For this, you would back off on the magenta slider, about 6 units, and print your next step wedge. Remember to mark all the settings on each strip as you print them. This forms the basis of your systematic correction of the print appearance, and you may want to backtrack the next day as you see how the prints look when fully dried.

5) you’ll be able to tell if you’ve overshot or not, and make adjustments accordingly, until you zero in on a step wedge that is the closest possible to neutral. Sometimes the step wedge will be warm in the shadows, and cool in the highlights, or vice versa, and this is an indication that you are about as close as you can get with this method, which should be pretty darn close.

Keep your test strips in a folder for later reference. Down the road, if you switch inks or paper, you can use your accumulation of test strips to help predict your next set of adjustments. There are good services that will create a profile for you, and they are an economical alternative to spending a small fortune on printer calibration equipment. Software based packages – Wiziwyg is one – that use a scanner to read a test print are hit and miss – I don’t recommend them, but for dye based printers they sometimes work very well.
—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Hi Mike,
Thank you so much for your quick and comprehensive reply….I very much appreciate it. I will take all of your advice on board and try what you suggest. The "double" profiling you mention is interesting..not sure if I’m doing that though. How would I check that? Is that after clicking the "Print" button after making the settings in the "Print preview dialogue box? In any event I’ll buy some Epson paper…and a few of my inks which are running out!
Life definitely wasn’t meant to be easy!:) Thanks again. Paul

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE QUALITY OF THE PAPER
I threw out the Kodak paper I bought
ugh
recommend Alford
or Epson

"KatWoman" wrote in message

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message

OK..I’ve been reading as much as I can on colour management and slowly coming to grips with it, but I’m still having some issues matching the print with what I see on my monitor….so would appreciate some help. I’m running Photoshop CS2, monitor is LG studioworks 900B CRT and my printer is an Epson Stylus Photo R310. Of course my problem (like so many others seem to be having from what I’ve researched)) is matching the final print with what I see on my monitor. Before I go out and buy Spyder2 hardware (assuming this would help solve the problem?) I’d like some further help. Here’s what I’ve done:

The Spyder will calibrate your monitor accurately, and if it doesn’t put too much of a dent in the budget, is probably worth it. However, Adobe Gamma works just fine with a CRT, and my recommendation would be to save your money.

1. Calibrated my monitor using Adobe Gamma…and saved the profile as default.
2. Open a photo in Photoshop and edit as required.

So far so good.

3. Soft proof using Kodak Premium Ultra Glossy paper (I purchased a 50 sheet box in a sale…so haven’t tried Epson paper yet).

Using third party materials, even from a reputable manufacturer, is sticking your neck out just a bit. I imagine your printer came with several sample sheets of paper? If so, try using those first to see how well the 310 matches your monitor, or get some Epson glossy photo paper. Costco has it at a very reasonable price.

Clicking on "simulate paper colour" makes the image slightly darker, so I guess I need to lighten the image slightly so that the final print is similar to what I see on the screen? I’ve also tried soft proofing using the Epson paper profiles..sometimes more or less successfully as far as the final print goes.

This is a common misconception about soft proofing. The soft proof will always look dark and dingy compared to what you see on the monitor. The idea of soft proofing is to anticipate problems with that particular ink / paper combination for that particular print, or to compare the appearance of different final media. The soft proof is not intended to be the image that you use to make your final edits in – for that use your monitor, then print and trust to the printer profile and driver for the conversion to .

4. I click "Print Preview and select: "let Photoshop determine colours", "Perceptual" and the Kodak paper profile…(also tried the Epson profile for Glossy paper)

For the majority of images, use Relative Colorimetric instead of Perceptual.

5. Click "print"…select "Best photo" quality, "Glossy Paper" in the
drop-down list. Also tried with and without "high speed printing" option.

Also make sure the dpi setting is maxxed out.

6. Click "advanced" which leads to extra printing choices. Now..if (as suggested in an "Epson Workflow" pdf I have) I click on ICM and check "No colour management"

That’s fine – keep in mind that you can also have the printer determine the colors, and configure the printer driver in Printer Properties to use the profile.

and then print the photo, the photo is diffeent from the monitor..sometimes with a pinkish hue. If I leave the colour settings as normal, but all colours to "0" (which I read on another website I should do, as they said that "no colour management" doesn’t produce good results with Epsom printers) then the print matches more what I see on the screen., but not as accurate as I’d like. So..the results seem to vary somewhat.

My first thought on hearing that an Epson has a magenta tint is that you are double profiling your printer – applying the profile twice in your print path somehow. From what you say, this seems not to be the case here,, but check carefully.

I’ve downloaded a number of tutorials/workflows etc on this subject but am getting quite frustrated with this. Other than having a photo lab print my photos I’d really like to be able to take control of this as well as having the skills to do it at home. If anyone can point me in the direction of further tutorials…settings etc I’d be very grateful. I hope this all makes

Absolutely. There is a way to systematically adjust your printer color using a gray target. Someone else asked about this earlier, and here is the procedure. Note that although it’s important to calibrate your monitor carefully, you can calibrate your printer independent of your monitor to print a neutral gray as follows:

1) Set the driver to PhotoEnhance mode, and print a gray step wedge and verify that there is little or no color cast in the shadows and midtones. Here is a sample step wedge that you can download: http://www.curvemeister.com/downloads/TestStrip/digital_test _strip.htm
2) If there is no color cast, you’re done. As you print each step wedge, mark it with the date and settings so that you do not repeat any work. You will save several trees if you print the step wedge in the top inch or so of the page, and you can snip it off, and re-use the same sheet many times. Keep in mind that the lighting conditions will change the color appearance, as will drying time..

3) If there is a color cast, you have two choices. Either experiment with the various paper profiles that are available – if you’re luck you’ll find one that gives you a neutral test strip, or adjust the color sliders in the driver.

4) to adjust the colors in the driver, first determine whether the overall test strip is too light or too dark. Use your monitor for comparing the overall brightness of the print. In addition, you should just be able to distinguish all of the steps in the step wedge. In addition, if the dark ones blur together, your printer is printing too dark, if the light ones can’t be distinguished, your printer is printing too light. Next, determine the color of the color cast, and whether it is too warm or too cold.

5) based on your determinations in step 4, either back off on the color sliders (if the image was too dark) or add color (if the image was too light). In general terms, adding magenta and/or yellow make the image warmer, and subtracting them make the image cooler. Cyan is the opposite. Suppose, as was the case with the last Epson that I did this with, the image is too dark, and the step wedge has a pink cast to it. For this, you would back off on the magenta slider, about 6 units, and print your next step wedge. Remember to mark all the settings on each strip as you print them. This forms the basis of your systematic correction of the print appearance, and you may want to backtrack the next day as you see how the prints look when fully dried.
5) you’ll be able to tell if you’ve overshot or not, and make adjustments accordingly, until you zero in on a step wedge that is the closest possible to neutral. Sometimes the step wedge will be warm in the shadows, and cool in the highlights, or vice versa, and this is an indication that you are about as close as you can get with this method, which should be pretty darn close.

Keep your test strips in a folder for later reference. Down the road, if you switch inks or paper, you can use your accumulation of test strips to help predict your next set of adjustments. There are good services that will create a profile for you, and they are an economical alternative to spending a small fortune on printer calibration equipment. Software based packages – Wiziwyg is one – that use a scanner to read a test print are hit and miss – I don’t recommend them, but for dye based printers they sometimes work very well. —
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Hi Mike,
Thank you so much for your quick and comprehensive reply….I very much appreciate it. I will take all of your advice on board and try what you suggest. The "double" profiling you mention is interesting..not sure if I’m doing that though. How would I check that? Is that after clicking the "Print" button after making the settings in the "Print preview dialogue box? In any event I’ll buy some Epson paper…and a few of my inks which are running out!
Life definitely wasn’t meant to be easy!:) Thanks again. Paul

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE QUALITY OF THE PAPER
I threw out the Kodak paper I bought
ugh
recommend Alford
or Epson

Yes, I’m going to buy some Epson paper (seeing as I have an Epson printer). However, I’ve tried printing a few more since Mike replied, and the colours seem more like what I see on the monitor when I select "Let the printer determine the colours". Then I went and set it to "Photoshop determine colours" and that was pretty good too! It seems to vary depending on the photo. I’m still reading about colour mangement though, so I’m leaning all the time! For some reason I can’t seem to fathomwhy the paper would make a difference…glossy kodak or Glossy Epson…they’re both white, the inks are the same from the printer, so why the variation in colour then? Cheers,
Paul

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message
….

For some reason I can’t seem to fathomwhy the paper would make a difference…glossy kodak or Glossy Epson…they’re both white, the inks are the same from the printer, so why the variation in colour then?

It’s a good question. Papers vary significantly in how they pick up the dye. If use a microscope to look at an inkjet done with Epson inks on Epson paper, the dots look like transparent plastic disks – little tiddly winks. Where the dots overlap the colors combine perfectly.

This is not to say that there aren’t good third party papers out there, but there are about as many ways for the ink/paper combination to screw up as you can imagine. Other papers don’t jibe with the chemistry of the inks, and the drops sit there looking like a blobs of colored cottage cheese, no mixing, and poor color. Or the inks will spread too much, producing a very muddy looking image. Sometimes only the yellow ink will sit on top of the paper, like condensation, and the other inks will soak in. Even if the print looks OK, it may be less permanent than a print using Epson materials. —
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message
…

For some reason I can’t seem to fathomwhy the paper would make a difference…glossy kodak or Glossy Epson…they’re both white, the inks are the same from the printer, so why the variation in colour then?

It’s a good question. Papers vary significantly in how they pick up the dye. If use a microscope to look at an inkjet done with Epson inks on Epson paper, the dots look like transparent plastic disks – little tiddly winks. Where the dots overlap the colors combine perfectly.
This is not to say that there aren’t good third party papers out there, but there are about as many ways for the ink/paper combination to screw up as you can imagine. Other papers don’t jibe with the chemistry of the inks, and the drops sit there looking like a blobs of colored cottage cheese, no mixing, and poor color. Or the inks will spread too much, producing a very muddy looking image. Sometimes only the yellow ink will sit on top of the paper, like condensation, and the other inks will soak in. Even if the print looks OK, it may be less permanent than a print using Epson materials.
—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Hi Mike,

Thanks for clearing up my confusion…I appreciate you taking the time to reply. Next time your in Australia maybe you could pop around for coffee and sort out my printing problems! 🙂
Paul

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:44:47 GMT, "Mike Russell" wrote:

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message
…

For some reason I can’t seem to fathomwhy the paper would make a difference…glossy kodak or Glossy Epson…they’re both white, the inks are the same from the printer, so why the variation in colour then?

It’s a good question. Papers vary significantly in how they pick up the dye.

I think that there is also some "chemistry" that happens between paper, paper coating (especially on glossy paper), and ink or dye which can affect both color and bronzing. It’s important to match the paper and the ink. If you are using factory ink and factory paper (e.g. Epson ink and paper on an Epson printer) you should get a good result. If you use alternate ink or alternate paper YMMV.

jc

—

"The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot of different horses without having to own that many." ~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare’s Nest, PA

"JC Dill" wrote in message

On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 07:44:47 GMT, "Mike Russell" wrote:

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message
…

For some reason I can’t seem to fathomwhy the paper would make a difference…glossy kodak or Glossy Epson…they’re both white, the inks are the same from the printer, so why the variation in colour then?

It’s a good question. Papers vary significantly in how they pick up the dye.

I think that there is also some "chemistry" that happens between paper, paper coating (especially on glossy paper), and ink or dye which can affect both color and bronzing. It’s important to match the paper and the ink. If you are using factory ink and factory paper (e.g. Epson ink and paper on an Epson printer) you should get a good result. If you use alternate ink or alternate paper YMMV.

Thank you all for the help. I bought some Epson premium glossy photo paper today, and printed some of my photos. The first one ended up darker than it was on the monitor, despite soft proofing and making sure I had the correct profiles loaded. I printed it again but just increased the brightness in Photoshop. It matched the monitor well..I’m very happy with the result! Every help tutorial I’ve read says that you should select "ICM" and "no colour management" in the print dialogue box…which is what I did, and I’m happy. However, on another website it recommended leaving the setting to "colour management" with the colour sliders at 0…as it produced a better print match. I may experiment with printing a few 2×2 inch images on a single sheet of paper to see what differences there may be…also trying the "let printer determine colours" setting. At just over $1 per sheet you can’t afford to waste paper!
Cheers,
Paul

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message

[re printing correct colors on an Epson]

Thank you all for the help. I bought some Epson premium glossy photo paper today, and printed some of my photos. The first one ended up darker than it was on the monitor, despite soft proofing and making sure I had the correct profiles loaded. I printed it again but just increased the brightness in Photoshop. It matched the monitor well..I’m very happy with the result!

Congratulations on getting a setup that works! Re the dark result: make sure you have the correct paper selected in the printer setup – PGPP requires less ink than plain paper.

Every help tutorial I’ve read says that you should select "ICM" and "no colour management" in the print dialogue box…which is what I did, and I’m happy. However, on another website it recommended leaving the setting to "colour management" with the colour sliders at 0…as it produced a better print match.

There are a number of ways you can set up your color management. I prefer the second setup, where the printer driver is set up to control the color, but either way works. Yet another choice is to use the PhotoEnhance4 setting.

I may experiment with printing a few 2×2 inch images on a single sheet of paper to see what differences there may be…also trying the "let printer determine colours" setting. At just over $1 per sheet you can’t afford to waste paper!

Small test images are a good tactic to save paper. PGPP is the best paper – prints are incredible with it. Costco has a good deal on Epson paper – 100 sheets of heavy photo glossy for about 18 dollars. I use it for 99 percent of my images.
—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

"Paul Burdett" wrote in message

[re printing correct colors on an Epson]

Thank you all for the help. I bought some Epson premium glossy photo paper today, and printed some of my photos. The first one ended up darker than it was on the monitor, despite soft proofing and making sure I had the correct profiles loaded. I printed it again but just increased the brightness in Photoshop. It matched the monitor well..I’m very happy with the result!

Congratulations on getting a setup that works! Re the dark result: make sure you have the correct paper selected in the printer setup – PGPP requires less ink than plain paper.

Every help tutorial I’ve read says that you should select "ICM" and "no colour management" in the print dialogue box…which is what I did, and I’m happy. However, on another website it recommended leaving the setting to "colour management" with the colour sliders at 0…as it produced a better print match.

There are a number of ways you can set up your color management. I prefer the second setup, where the printer driver is set up to control the color, but either way works. Yet another choice is to use the PhotoEnhance4 setting.

I may experiment with printing a few 2×2 inch images on a single sheet of paper to see what differences there may be…also trying the "let printer determine colours" setting. At just over $1 per sheet you can’t afford to waste paper!

Small test images are a good tactic to save paper. PGPP is the best paper – prints are incredible with it. Costco has a good deal on Epson paper – 100 sheets of heavy photo glossy for about 18 dollars. I use it for 99 percent of my images.
—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Hi Mike,

Thank you again for the reply. I’ll check out Costco!
Cheers,
Paul