PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

B
Posted By
Boonish
Oct 9, 2006
Views
478
Replies
15
Status
Closed
I Have a relatively simple 8bit RGB layered PSD which looks great within photoshop. However when saving for web in any format, the colors seem to get a bit washed out and the image appears lighter.

The strange thing is that if I open the PSD in Fireworks, the image has the same washed out effect.

What could be causing this?

How to Improve Photoshop Performance

Learn how to optimize Photoshop for maximum speed, troubleshoot common issues, and keep your projects organized so that you can work faster than ever before!

MR
Mike Russell
Oct 9, 2006
"Boonish" wrote in message
I Have a relatively simple 8bit RGB layered PSD which looks great within photoshop. However when saving for web in any format, the colors seem to get a bit washed out and the image appears lighter.

The strange thing is that if I open the PSD in Fireworks, the image has the same washed out effect.

What could be causing this?

It’s almost certainly due to using Adobe RGB as your working space. Try converting to sRGB first and I bet dollars to donuts the problem will go away.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/
D
djcredo
Oct 9, 2006
It’s important to use the same Color Management settings in your image as you do on your monitor. These can be changed when you create a new file (there will be an option asking you which setting you want). If you need to use a different CM scheme for your monitor than sRGB (I have to use a custom profile on my iBook otherwise everything looks blue), then AFAIK you should also choose that setting in your image.
RG
Roy G
Oct 9, 2006
wrote in message
It’s important to use the same Color Management settings in your image as you do on your monitor. These can be changed when you create a new file (there will be an option asking you which setting you want). If you need to use a different CM scheme for your monitor than sRGB (I have to use a custom profile on my iBook otherwise everything looks blue), then AFAIK you should also choose that setting in your image.

Not true.

I would suggest that you do a little reading up on Colour Management. Have a look at the Photoshop Help Files.

sRGB and Adobe RGB are Workspace Profiles, not Monitor Profiles.

Roy G
T
Tacit
Oct 9, 2006
In article ,
Boonish wrote:

I Have a relatively simple 8bit RGB layered PSD which looks great within photoshop. However when saving for web in any format, the colors seem to get a bit washed out and the image appears lighter.

Your color management settings are wrong.

Photoshop does "color management." That means it changes the colors you see on your computer screen in order to compensate for your exact brand of monitor, input device, and so on.

Other programs don’t do color management. They don’t show color the same way Photoshop does.

If you want to see your images in Photoshop the way that you see them in other programs, you can disable Photoshop’s color management using the Color Settings command, use a different profile, or use View->Proof Setup->Monitor RGB.


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
Nanohazard, Geek shirts, and more: http://www.villaintees.com
B
Boonish
Oct 9, 2006
On 2006-10-09 08:21:32 -0700, tacit said:
Your color management settings are wrong.

Photoshop does "color management." That means it changes the colors you see on your computer screen in order to compensate for your exact brand of monitor, input device, and so on.

Other programs don’t do color management. They don’t show color the same way Photoshop does.

If you want to see your images in Photoshop the way that you see them in other programs, you can disable Photoshop’s color management using the Color Settings command, use a different profile, or use View->Proof Setup->Monitor RGB.

Ah ha – changing the color management settings did the trick! Thanks.
U
usenet
Oct 14, 2006
Roy G wrote:

wrote in message
It’s important to use the same Color Management settings in your image as you do on your monitor. These can be changed when you create a new file (there will be an option asking you which setting you want). If you need to use a different CM scheme for your monitor than sRGB (I have to use a custom profile on my iBook otherwise everything looks blue), then AFAIK you should also choose that setting in your image.

Not true.

I would suggest that you do a little reading up on Colour Management. Have a look at the Photoshop Help Files.

sRGB and Adobe RGB are Workspace Profiles, not Monitor Profiles.

Actually, sRGB is a color profile designed to contain all the colors of a generic CRT monitor. It’s a generic monitor profile. That’s why it’s useful as a ‘working space’ profile: Your monitor can probably display all the colors within it.

But the distinction between ‘working’ and ‘monitor’ profiles is hardly worth capitalization. They’re just profiles, and Photoshop or QuickTime, etc, are happy to do the conversion to whatever other profile you need.
MR
Mike Russell
Oct 14, 2006
"Paul Mitchum" wrote in message

[re sRGB versus monitor profile]

Actually, sRGB is a color profile designed to contain all the colors of a generic CRT monitor. It’s a generic monitor profile. That’s why it’s useful as a ‘working space’ profile: Your monitor can probably display all the colors within it.

But the distinction between ‘working’ and ‘monitor’ profiles is hardly worth capitalization. They’re just profiles, and Photoshop or QuickTime, etc, are happy to do the conversion to whatever other profile you need.

This is true. I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your working color space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red, green, and blue are equal.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/
U
usenet
Oct 14, 2006
Mike Russell wrote:

"Paul Mitchum" wrote in message

[re sRGB versus monitor profile]

Actually, sRGB is a color profile designed to contain all the colors of a generic CRT monitor. It’s a generic monitor profile. That’s why it’s useful as a ‘working space’ profile: Your monitor can probably display all the colors within it.

But the distinction between ‘working’ and ‘monitor’ profiles is hardly worth capitalization. They’re just profiles, and Photoshop or QuickTime, etc, are happy to do the conversion to whatever other profile you need.

This is true. I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your working color space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red, green, and blue are equal.

The point of profiles and color management is that you’ll *see* gray at equal RGB values *regardless of the response curve of the output device.* If the working profile and the output profile are color managed, then (ideally) you won’t be able to tell that there’s any difference.

You choose a working space based on your needs: sRGB is a safe bet for photography. AdobeRGB is a safe bet for just about everything including photography. LAB makes *me* happy, but that’s because I like to work with imaginary colors. 🙂
MR
Mike Russell
Oct 15, 2006
Mike Russell wrote:
I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your working color space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red,
green, and blue are equal.

"Paul Mitchum" wrote in message
The point of profiles and color management is that you’ll *see* gray at equal RGB values *regardless of the response curve of the output device.*

Yes, you will see gray at equal RGB values. The opposite is not true. Because of visual effects such as visual accomodation, you will also see gray at approximately equal RGB values, and this will result in a subtle color cast that will affect colors throughout the image. For this reason is is poor practice to rely on visual appearance alone when correcting a color cast. A numeric comparison of RGB values is a much better way to determine a neutral.

For those who are inclined to experiment, fill a large image with RGB(118,128,128), which is a medium blue color. Stare at the center of it for 5 seconds, and close the window so that you are looking at Photoshop’s gray background. It will look pink for several seconds. This is why you cannot trust your eyes alone for determining a gray color.

Numeric RGB values for gray are not guaranteed to be equal when you use a monitor profile as your working space. For this reason using a standard working space, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB is preferred.

If the working profile and the output profile are color
managed, then (ideally) you won’t be able to tell that there’s any difference.–

There will be no visual difference in any case, provided you convert between profiles, even if those profiles are incorrect.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/
U
usenet
Oct 15, 2006
Mike Russell wrote:

"Paul Mitchum" wrote in message
Mike Russell wrote:

I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your working color space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red, green, and blue are equal.

The point of profiles and color management is that you’ll *see* gray at equal RGB values *regardless of the response curve of the output device.*

Yes, you will see gray at equal RGB values. The opposite is not true. Because of visual effects such as visual accomodation, you will also see gray at approximately equal RGB values, and this will result in a subtle color cast that will affect colors throughout the image. For this reason is is poor practice to rely on visual appearance alone when correcting a color cast. A numeric comparison of RGB values is a much better way to determine a neutral.

If you’re doing color correction in RGB, then you’re already three steps behind.

For those who are inclined to experiment, fill a large image with RGB(118,128,128), which is a medium blue color. Stare at the center of it for 5 seconds, and close the window so that you are looking at Photoshop’s gray background. It will look pink for several seconds. This is why you cannot trust your eyes alone for determining a gray color.
Numeric RGB values for gray are not guaranteed to be equal when you use a monitor profile as your working space. For this reason using a standard working space, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB is preferred.

You miss the point, though: You might tell Photoshop to use sRGB or AdobeRGB for it’s working profile, but output will be mapped from that profile to the profile of your monitor. So you have a ‘working space’ profile (sRGB), and that’s mapped through the monitor profile so that Photoshop can show it to you.

This is all irrespective of visual accomodation and other sensorial issues. No setting in Photoshop can change that. 🙂

If the working profile and the output profile are color managed, then (ideally) you won’t be able to tell that there’s any difference.

There will be no visual difference in any case, provided you convert between profiles, even if those profiles are incorrect.

If the profile is incorrect (that is: It doesn’t represent the response curve of the output device accurately), then colors will likely be visually inaccurate. So how can you say there’ll be no visual difference?
MR
Mike Russell
Oct 15, 2006
"Paul Mitchum" wrote in message
Mike Russell wrote:

"Paul Mitchum" wrote in message
Mike Russell wrote:

I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your working color
space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red, green, and blue are equal.

The point of profiles and color management is that you’ll *see* gray at equal RGB values *regardless of the response curve of the output device.*

Yes, you will see gray at equal RGB values. The opposite is not true. Because of visual effects such as visual accomodation, you will also see gray at approximately equal RGB values, and this will result in a subtle color cast that will affect colors throughout the image. For this reason is is poor practice to rely on visual appearance alone when correcting a color cast. A numeric comparison of RGB values is a much better way to determine a neutral.

If you’re doing color correction in RGB, then you’re already three steps behind.

I would go further and say you’re missing out if you use only one color space . Lab is a usually my first choice as a color space for color correction. In general it’s easier to get a good result quickly in Lab than in RGB. There are other images that benefit from RGB, CMYK, and even HSB.

….
You miss the point, though: You might tell Photoshop to use sRGB or AdobeRGB for it’s working profile, but output will be mapped from that profile to the profile of your monitor. So you have a ‘working space’ profile (sRGB), and that’s mapped through the monitor profile so that Photoshop can show it to you.

Sure,colors are mapped from the working color space to the monitor. My warning was about using your Monitor RGB space as your working profile.

This is all irrespective of visual accomodation and other sensorial issues. No setting in Photoshop can change that. 🙂

Correcting "by the numbers" prevent visual accomodation from causing problems.

If the working profile and the output profile are color managed, then (ideally) you won’t be able to tell that there’s any difference.

There will be no visual difference in any case, provided you convert between profiles, even if those profiles are incorrect.

If the profile is incorrect (that is: It doesn’t represent the response curve of the output device accurately), then colors will likely be visually inaccurate. So how can you say there’ll be no visual difference?

I think I was clear. We were talking about working in monitor space versus a standard color space. As long as you use "Convert to Profile", the colors on your screen won’t change when you convert your image from your working space to the monitor space and vice versa. This is true no matter now accurate or inaccurate the display (or working space) profile is. —
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/
U
usenet
Oct 15, 2006
Mike Russell wrote:

"Paul Mitchum" wrote in message
[..]
I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your working color space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red, green, and blue are equal.
[..]
You miss the point, though: You might tell Photoshop to use sRGB or AdobeRGB for it’s working profile, but output will be mapped from that profile to the profile of your monitor. So you have a ‘working space’ profile (sRGB), and that’s mapped through the monitor profile so that Photoshop can show it to you.

Sure,colors are mapped from the working color space to the monitor. My warning was about using your Monitor RGB space as your working profile.

Well, no. Your warning was that gray wouldn’t be gray if you used a monitor profile as a working space in Photoshop. And that simply doesn’t hold true.

If the working profile and the output profile are color managed, then (ideally) you won’t be able to tell that there’s any difference.

There will be no visual difference in any case, provided you convert between profiles, even if those profiles are incorrect.

If the profile is incorrect (that is: It doesn’t represent the response curve of the output device accurately), then colors will likely be visually inaccurate. So how can you say there’ll be no visual difference?

I think I was clear. We were talking about working in monitor space versus a standard color space. As long as you use "Convert to Profile", the colors on your screen won’t change when you convert your image from your working space to the monitor space and vice versa. This is true no matter now accurate or inaccurate the display (or working space) profile is.

Color management applies to more than just monitors.
MR
Mike Russell
Oct 15, 2006
Mike Russell wrote:
[re Photoshop’s use of profiles for displaying images]
Sure,colors are mapped from the working color space to the monitor. My warning was about using your Monitor RGB space as your working profile.

"Paul Mitchum" wrote in message
Well, no. Your warning was that gray wouldn’t be gray if you used a monitor profile as a working space in Photoshop. And that simply doesn’t hold true.

I warned against using the monitor RGB profile as a working space. This causes problems, including an inability to accurately determine numeric gray values. Instead of using the monitor RGB profile as your working space, use one of the conventional working space profiles, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB.

Color management applies to more than just monitors.

There’s an interesting point about that as well. Scanner and printer profiles make even worse working spaces than monitor profiles, so it’s best to convert scanned and printed files to or from one of the working space profiles.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/
U
usenet
Oct 15, 2006
Mike Russell wrote:

Mike Russell wrote:
[re Photoshop’s use of profiles for displaying images]
Sure,colors are mapped from the working color space to the monitor. My warning was about using your Monitor RGB space as your working profile.

"Paul Mitchum" wrote in message
Well, no. Your warning was that gray wouldn’t be gray if you used a monitor profile as a working space in Photoshop. And that simply doesn’t hold true.

I warned against using the monitor RGB profile as a working space. This causes problems, including an inability to accurately determine numeric gray values.

But as I pointed out, that’s not actually true.

Instead of using the monitor RGB profile as your working space, use one of the conventional working space profiles, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB.

That’s good advice, and a best practice, but not a hard-and-fast rule.

Color management applies to more than just monitors.

There’s an interesting point about that as well. Scanner and printer profiles make even worse working spaces than monitor profiles, so it’s best to convert scanned and printed files to or from one of the working space profiles.

If you scan using a scanner’s profile, and the profile is not accurate, then you’ll have the wrong colors. And when you convert to sRGB or AdobeRGB or whatever, the colors will still be wrong.
MR
Mike Russell
Oct 15, 2006
"Paul Mitchum" wrote in message
….
But as I pointed out, that’s not actually true.

LOL – we’re chasing our own tails here. If anyone else wants to chime in on this topic, which I for one find very interesting, or if you decide to add some new information, I’ll be happy to respond.


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Master Retouching Hair

Learn how to rescue details, remove flyaways, add volume, and enhance the definition of hair in any photo. We break down every tool and technique in Photoshop to get picture-perfect hair, every time.

Related Discussion Topics

Nice and short text about related topics in discussion sections