PS and PSE – scary

(Conrad Weiler) wrote:

The bottom line is that PSE 2 with the Lynch CD additions brings up a program that is almost the same as the full PS versions – at least when working with photo enhancement. Really scary considering the price differentials.

No, not really. PSE is very nearly a match for PS… but only for work with RGB images. Which is fine and all most home and lightweight users need.

PS has a huge "hidden" component, not readily apparent to most users, for creating and managing CMYK images for professional print and press. PSE has none of these features and they can’t be added.

So neither PS’s price nor the PS/PSE price differential is scary, except to those who don’t really understand what PS is.

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James Gifford wrote:

(Conrad Weiler) wrote:

The bottom line is that PSE 2 with the Lynch CD additions brings up a program that is almost the same as the full PS versions – at least when working with photo enhancement. Really scary considering the price differentials.

No, not really. PSE is very nearly a match for PS… but only for work with RGB images. Which is fine and all most home and lightweight users need.
PS has a huge "hidden" component, not readily apparent to most users, for creating and managing CMYK images for professional print and press. PSE has none of these features and they can’t be added.

So neither PS’s price nor the PS/PSE price differential is scary, except to those who don’t really understand what PS is.

Actually the Hidden Powers thing enables CMYK in Elements as well, according to their website. Not that that makes it Photoshop.

Another contender in the "non-Photoshop but still good" category is Photoline 32: http://www.pl32.com/ which also is CMYK enabled. Some nice features and filters. No Channels though.

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In article ,
(Conrad Weiler) wrote:

[…]
I also have Photoshop Elements 2 on my Gateway and Mac (the CD is a hybrid – two programs for the price of one and lists for $99). Generally, after rebate PSE 2 can be obtained for about $50. It also comes bundled ((free)) with some cameras and scanners).

It is not really two-for-one. The EULA specifically prohibits you form having one copy of each running simultaneously. But you knew that.

The bottom line is that PSE 2 with the Lynch CD additions brings up a program that is almost the same as the full PS versions – at least when working with photo enhancement. Really scary considering the price differentials.

It is not scarey at all. Your bottom-line metrics are limited to those who don’t have to work with prepress and some other advanced professional features. In fact, your argument is probably a very good answer to the people here who have whined about CS’s price for none of them have any use for the pro features.

In article , James
Gifford wrote:

(Conrad Weiler) wrote:

The bottom line is that PSE 2 with the Lynch CD additions brings up a program that is almost the same as the full PS versions – at least when working with photo enhancement. Really scary considering the price differentials.

No, not really. PSE is very nearly a match for PS… but only for work with RGB images. Which is fine and all most home and lightweight users need.
PS has a huge "hidden" component, not readily apparent to most users, for creating and managing CMYK images for professional print and press. PSE has none of these features and they can’t be added.

Does Elements also accomodate 16-bit images with filters? Does Elements support nonsquare pixels? Just wondering.

(jjs) wrote:

Does Elements also accomodate 16-bit images with filters? Does Elements support nonsquare pixels? Just wondering.

Not a clue. I’ve never worked with it. Those are fairly advanced needs, though, and I’m not sure expecting them from a <$100 package is reasonable.

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edjh wrote:

Actually the Hidden Powers thing enables CMYK in Elements as well, according to their website. Not that that makes it Photoshop.

My info may be out of date – did version 1 support CMYK? – but a little bit of CMYK handling doesn’t equate to PS’s vast capabilities.

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"Conrad Weiler" wrote in message

Hi,

It’s just plain scary.

I enjoy using Photoshop and the results with my pictures. I’m using

version 7

with my Gateway; version 5.5 with my Mac; and Central Oregon CC has

version 6

in Sisters lab (version 7 in Bend and Redmond labs). The new Photoshop CS version lists for $649.

I also have Photoshop Elements 2 on my Gateway and Mac (the CD is a

hybrid –

two programs for the price of one and lists for $99). Generally, after

rebate

PSE 2 can be obtained for about $50. It also comes bundled ((free)) with

some

cameras and scanners).

I’ve been reading Richard Lynch’s book, Hidden Powers of Photoshop

Elements

(cost: $28 new at Amazon.com). It’s not an easy read and goes extensively

into

color theory, tone, luminosity, etc. However, there is an accompaning CD

that

has several features that are missing in the ‘bare’ PSE 2 including curves

and

channels. It also has a lot of other color separation features that I have

to

play with some more.

The bottom line is that PSE 2 with the Lynch CD additions brings up a

program

that is almost the same as the full PS versions – at least when working

with

photo enhancement. Really scary considering the price differentials.

For an amateur wishing to work exclusively in two RGB working color spaces, I’d concur that Lynch’s add-ins make PSE2 a better photo-editing package. But even with the add-ins, PSE2 is a *long* way from being "almost the same as the full PS versions." Soft-proofing alone is (IMO) worth the $299 up-grade price, and that is just the beginning of the extra features that can be used by everybody, amatuers included.

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Are you easily frightnened ?
afraid of the dark ?
easily scared ?
maybe you need to see a professional…….. its really not normal for an adult or even a child to be scared by something so trivial as graphics software and not scary at all for the majority of people….. Do yourself a favor and seek help

"Conrad Weiler" wrote in message

Hi,

It’s just plain scary.

I enjoy using Photoshop and the results with my pictures. I’m using

version 7

with my Gateway; version 5.5 with my Mac; and Central Oregon CC has

version 6

in Sisters lab (version 7 in Bend and Redmond labs). The new Photoshop CS version lists for $649.

I also have Photoshop Elements 2 on my Gateway and Mac (the CD is a

hybrid –

two programs for the price of one and lists for $99). Generally, after

rebate

PSE 2 can be obtained for about $50. It also comes bundled ((free)) with

some

cameras and scanners).

I’ve been reading Richard Lynch’s book, Hidden Powers of Photoshop

Elements

(cost: $28 new at Amazon.com). It’s not an easy read and goes extensively

into

color theory, tone, luminosity, etc. However, there is an accompaning CD

that

has several features that are missing in the ‘bare’ PSE 2 including curves

and

channels. It also has a lot of other color separation features that I have

to

play with some more.

The bottom line is that PSE 2 with the Lynch CD additions brings up a

program

that is almost the same as the full PS versions – at least when working

with

photo enhancement. Really scary considering the price differentials.
Best,

Conrad
Conrad Weiler
Camp Sherman, Oregon

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<< Actually the Hidden Powers thing enables CMYK in Elements as well, according to their website. >>

Here are the listed tools in PSE 2 Lynch CD:

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SRC="untitled">
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SRC="untitled">
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SRC="untitled">

Conrad Weiler
Camp Sherman, Oregon

Just thought I’d reply here to see if I can clarify…

My book: http://aps8.com/hppe.html
helps users get more out of Elements by adding it tools (listed here: http://hiddenelements.com/tools.html ; take the tool tour to see the complete list). This functionality is created by Adobe and I just help access it or automate processes.

Elements can save CMYK images…but I would not use it for volume CMYK work (e.g., if you do color book design). It is fine if you only need an occassional image…it is more interesting for learning the idea of what CMYK separation is. in fact, I thought this interesting enough to include in my new book (http://hiddenelements.com/hppscs.html).

Elements does not currently work with non-square pixels, but neither did Photoshop 7, which Elements 2 is based on. Who knows what will happen in Elements 3.

Elements DOES support a LOT of things that most people say it doesn’t…however, it also doesn’t have Image Ready, which is a powerful tool if you do a lot of web work. It is not a basic program, it is a full-featured package meant to compete with other packages being distributed with digital cameras…it does that and more. There are other very good packages, but this offers the smoothest transition if you eventually see yourself working to some degree as a Photoshop professional.

I think a lot more users can afford Elements than Photoshop, and I am glad I was able to offer the tools to help users get even more out of the program. Hopefully more users who need Elements will turn to it rather than sinking money into Photoshop that they didn’t need to — or doing less legal things out of necessity.

if you use Elements, feel free to subscribe to my newsletter: http://hiddenelements.com/newsletter.html

There are also free tools on the site.

I’m glad there is some talk about Elements, and that it seems to be getting more respect. It is well worth the price, even without my tools.

Hope that helps!

Richard Lynch
http://hiddenelements.com

PhotoShop’s (full version) primary advantage is the produciton of files intended for commercial press printing. That is why professionals are willing to pay several hundred dollars for it. Like Illustrator and Quark Express, they are fairly expensive tools for commercial press work, and so professional users usually recoup the costs readily. For a home user, PhotoShop’s full version is overkill and a questionable investment. There are many, many consumer programs, like PaintShop Pro, Corel PhotoPaint and even Ulead PhotoImpact, that are much cheaper yet long ago had some of the advanced editing features PS later incorporated. But, they are generally only well-suited for images intended for computer display, desktop printing or 1-hour photo prints from digi files. 4-color seperations and post-script is a different realm, but one in which commercial press services have primarily operated in.

"Conrad Weiler" wrote in message

Hi,

It’s just plain scary.

I enjoy using Photoshop and the results with my pictures. I’m using

version 7

with my Gateway; version 5.5 with my Mac; and Central Oregon CC has

version 6

in Sisters lab (version 7 in Bend and Redmond labs). The new Photoshop CS version lists for $649.

I also have Photoshop Elements 2 on my Gateway and Mac (the CD is a

hybrid –

two programs for the price of one and lists for $99). Generally, after

rebate

PSE 2 can be obtained for about $50. It also comes bundled ((free)) with

some

cameras and scanners).

I’ve been reading Richard Lynch’s book, Hidden Powers of Photoshop

Elements

(cost: $28 new at Amazon.com). It’s not an easy read and goes extensively

into

color theory, tone, luminosity, etc. However, there is an accompaning CD

that

has several features that are missing in the ‘bare’ PSE 2 including curves

and

channels. It also has a lot of other color separation features that I have

to

play with some more.

The bottom line is that PSE 2 with the Lynch CD additions brings up a

program

that is almost the same as the full PS versions – at least when working

with

photo enhancement. Really scary considering the price differentials.
Best,

Conrad
Conrad Weiler
Camp Sherman, Oregon