Need recommendations for a PCI video card

B
Posted By
Bobby77501
Dec 14, 2003
Views
1286
Replies
18
Status
Closed
I need recommendations for a very good card with at least 16 MB of memory.

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NW
No Where Man
Dec 14, 2003
You might be able to find an "off-brand" version of an Nvidia or ATi card at CompUSA or somewhere else.

Personally, I’d suggest getting a Matrox G450 PCI (available direct from Matrox – www.matrox.com/mga)
JG
James Gifford
Dec 14, 2003
***Jamoke*** wrote:
I need recommendations for a very good card with at least 16 MB of memory.

For purely 2D work, it’s hard to beat Matrox – G550 and up. I used to use nothing but Matrox, but finally moved away when I needed 3D performance from this decade. (Their 3D and overlay support is weak at best, despite their claims and benchmarks.)

If 3D work (or gaming) is an issue, with excellent 2D, look at almost any of the upper-end Nvidia-based cards. I’ve used several PNY Verto cards and have been very happy with them for everything from general workstation use to high-end games to video and photographic work.



| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
B
Bobby77501
Dec 14, 2003
I plan to use the card primarily for photography using Photoshop. What capacity memory should I look for?

"James Gifford" wrote in message
***Jamoke*** wrote:
I need recommendations for a very good card with at least 16 MB of
memory.
For purely 2D work, it’s hard to beat Matrox – G550 and up. I used to use nothing but Matrox, but finally moved away when I needed 3D performance from this decade. (Their 3D and overlay support is weak at best, despite their claims and benchmarks.)

If 3D work (or gaming) is an issue, with excellent 2D, look at almost any of the upper-end Nvidia-based cards. I’ve used several PNY Verto cards and have been very happy with them for everything from general workstation use to high-end games to video and photographic work.


| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
JG
James Gifford
Dec 14, 2003
***Jamoke*** wrote:
I plan to use the card primarily for photography using Photoshop. What capacity memory should I look for?

It depends on the working resolution, but 32MB is plenty to handle 1600x1200x32. The larger-capacity cards are typically for 3D and gaming work where there is additional data (additional pages, buffers, etc.) to be held in VRAM.

I doubt there are any "quality" 16MB cards around anymore, even. 32MB is pretty much the floor, and even the $75 PNY I bought for a workstation had 64MB.



| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
B
Bobby77501
Dec 15, 2003
I’m kind of new to using Photoshop and have never had a graphics card before. However, I want to buy one good enough to work on rather large photos (perhaps 24"x32" or so – maybe larger). I’m not into games at all. I’m a photographer and would use what a card has to offer to manipulate photos. I have Genuine Fractals and would probably have my files at 300PPI at 24"x32". Does this help at all in recommending a card for me? Right now, I have a 1GHz/512MB notebook which is in a docking station. The docking station has a PCI slot where I would place the graphics card. I want to buy something that will last me quite awhile. Which Matrox would you recommend and why? Thanks for taking the time to advise me……

Bobby

"James Gifford" wrote in message
***Jamoke*** wrote:
I plan to use the card primarily for photography using Photoshop. What capacity memory should I look for?

It depends on the working resolution, but 32MB is plenty to handle 1600x1200x32. The larger-capacity cards are typically for 3D and gaming work where there is additional data (additional pages, buffers, etc.) to be held in VRAM.

I doubt there are any "quality" 16MB cards around anymore, even. 32MB is pretty much the floor, and even the $75 PNY I bought for a workstation had 64MB.



| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
JG
James Gifford
Dec 15, 2003
***Jamoke*** wrote:
I’m kind of new to using Photoshop and have never had a graphics card before. However, I want to buy one good enough to work on rather large photos (perhaps 24"x32" or so – maybe larger). I’m not into games at all. I’m a photographer and would use what a card has to offer to manipulate photos. I have Genuine Fractals and would probably have my files at 300PPI at 24"x32". Does this help at all in recommending a card for me? Right now, I have a 1GHz/512MB notebook which is in a docking station. The docking station has a PCI slot where I would place the graphics card. I want to buy something that will last me quite awhile. Which Matrox would you recommend and why? Thanks for taking the time to advise me……

You’re going to take a performance hit relative to "state of the art" video for two reasons: the PCI interface will be slower than the AGP 2-4-8X interfaces found in most newer desktop systems, and the pathway from the notebook through the docking station will introduce other delays (and perhaps performance limitations).

Working on large photo images means large photo image files, as well. I’m not sure a 1GHz/512MB machine will be enough platform. It will work, but you might experience excruciating delays for loading, saving, filters, etc.

All that said, anything from a Matrox G450 up (G550, Parhelia, G650, G750) will be a fine choice. I don’t know if anything beyond the 450 is necessary for your use (that is, will show any performance benefit given your other bottlenecks). I also don’t know if anything beyond the 450 comes with a PCI interface.

The *good* news is that a 450 can be had quite cheaply – check eBay – and is a helluva graphics card for 2D work up to 1600×1200.



| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
B
Bobby77501
Dec 15, 2003
Thanks for the detailed reply. One question: I now understand the bottle necks – but wouldn’t the more expensive graphics cards do better than the G450? If not, why? Thanks…..

Bobby

"James Gifford" wrote in message
***Jamoke*** wrote:
I’m kind of new to using Photoshop and have never had a graphics card before. However, I want to buy one good enough to work on rather large photos (perhaps 24"x32" or so – maybe larger). I’m not into games at
all.
I’m a photographer and would use what a card has to offer to manipulate photos. I have Genuine Fractals and would probably have my files at
300PPI
at 24"x32". Does this help at all in recommending a card for me? Right now, I have a 1GHz/512MB notebook which is in a docking station. The docking station has a PCI slot where I would place the graphics card. I want to buy something that will last me quite awhile. Which Matrox
would
you recommend and why? Thanks for taking the time to advise me……

You’re going to take a performance hit relative to "state of the art" video for two reasons: the PCI interface will be slower than the AGP 2-4-8X interfaces found in most newer desktop systems, and the pathway from the notebook through the docking station will introduce other delays (and perhaps performance limitations).

Working on large photo images means large photo image files, as well. I’m not sure a 1GHz/512MB machine will be enough platform. It will work, but you might experience excruciating delays for loading, saving, filters, etc.

All that said, anything from a Matrox G450 up (G550, Parhelia, G650, G750) will be a fine choice. I don’t know if anything beyond the 450 is necessary for your use (that is, will show any performance benefit given your other bottlenecks). I also don’t know if anything beyond the 450 comes with a PCI interface.

The *good* news is that a 450 can be had quite cheaply – check eBay – and is a helluva graphics card for 2D work up to 1600×1200.


| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
JG
James Gifford
Dec 16, 2003
***Jamoke*** wrote:
Thanks for the detailed reply. One question: I now understand the bottle necks – but wouldn’t the more expensive graphics cards do better than the G450? If not, why? Thanks…..

For one thing, I don’t think any more powerful cards come on the PCI bus. The throughput advantages of AGP are needed to feed the faster, hungrier cards. And for 2D work with light 3D support using PCI, the Matrox G450 is/was pretty much the top of the heap. Even if a significantly more powerful card comes with a PCI bus, I don’t think you’d notice significantly improved performance because of the computer’s limits and the PCI bottleneck.



| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
B
Bobby77501
Dec 16, 2003
Thanks again – I’ll look at Ebay to see if I can find one.

Bobby

"James Gifford" wrote in message
***Jamoke*** wrote:
Thanks for the detailed reply. One question: I now understand the
bottle
necks – but wouldn’t the more expensive graphics cards do better than
the
G450? If not, why? Thanks…..

For one thing, I don’t think any more powerful cards come on the PCI bus. The throughput advantages of AGP are needed to feed the faster, hungrier cards. And for 2D work with light 3D support using PCI, the Matrox G450 is/was pretty much the top of the heap. Even if a significantly more powerful card comes with a PCI bus, I don’t think you’d notice significantly improved performance because of the computer’s limits and the PCI bottleneck.



| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
B
Bobby77501
Dec 17, 2003
I found just one dual head PCI Matrox G450 with 32 MB DDR memory on the internet. Do you have any idea what I should expect to pay? Also, I have no idea if 32MB is low, medium or high for what I want to do. Thanks……..

Bobby

"James Gifford" wrote in message
***Jamoke*** wrote:
Thanks for the detailed reply. One question: I now understand the
bottle
necks – but wouldn’t the more expensive graphics cards do better than
the
G450? If not, why? Thanks…..

For one thing, I don’t think any more powerful cards come on the PCI bus. The throughput advantages of AGP are needed to feed the faster, hungrier cards. And for 2D work with light 3D support using PCI, the Matrox G450 is/was pretty much the top of the heap. Even if a significantly more powerful card comes with a PCI bus, I don’t think you’d notice significantly improved performance because of the computer’s limits and the PCI bottleneck.



| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
JG
James Gifford
Dec 17, 2003
"***Jamoke***" wrote:

I found just one dual head PCI Matrox G450 with 32 MB DDR memory on the internet. Do you have any idea what I should expect to pay? Also, I have no idea if 32MB is low, medium or high for what I want to do. Thanks……..

32MB should be plenty. I’m not sure if these cards are still being sold, but for a used one with a reasonable DOA warranty, between $25 and $40 is a reasonable range.

You can download the newest drivers for your OS at the Matrox web site. Don’t waste time with any drivers on disk, they’re likely to be deadly old.


| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
B
Bobby77501
Dec 17, 2003
Thanks, James. I guess right now, there aren’t any G450’s available on Ebay. The one or two I found were hundreds of $$$. I’ll keep looking though. Thanks……..

Bobby

"James Gifford" wrote in message
"***Jamoke***" wrote:

I found just one dual head PCI Matrox G450 with 32 MB DDR memory on the internet. Do you have any idea what I should expect to pay? Also, I have no idea if 32MB is low, medium or high for what I want to do. Thanks……..

32MB should be plenty. I’m not sure if these cards are still being sold, but for a used one with a reasonable DOA warranty, between $25 and $40 is
a
reasonable range.

You can download the newest drivers for your OS at the Matrox web site. Don’t waste time with any drivers on disk, they’re likely to be deadly
old.

| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
JG
James Gifford
Dec 17, 2003
"***Jamoke***" wrote:

Thanks, James. I guess right now, there aren’t any G450’s available on Ebay. The one or two I found were hundreds of $$$. I’ll keep looking though. Thanks……..

That doesn’t sound right at all – I checked at some point during this exchange and found a couple in the $30 range. They were under $200 even when first new!

Here, look at item 2773700361: http://tinyurl.com/znlc. This one is up to $26 only because it’s one of the newer models with a DVI output.

The $225 one listed is a special four-monitor card. (There are several "G450" models – you just want any basic one with a PCI interface.)


| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
B
Bobby77501
Dec 17, 2003
OK, thanks. I see a lot of them – but they’re specified as AGB. Since I’m new at this, will these units fit in a PCI slot – or do I have to look specifically for one that is PCI?

Bobby

"James Gifford" wrote in message
"***Jamoke***" wrote:

Thanks, James. I guess right now, there aren’t any G450’s available on Ebay. The one or two I found were hundreds of $$$. I’ll keep looking though. Thanks……..

That doesn’t sound right at all – I checked at some point during this exchange and found a couple in the $30 range. They were under $200 even when first new!

Here, look at item 2773700361: http://tinyurl.com/znlc. This one is up to $26 only because it’s one of the newer models with a DVI output.
The $225 one listed is a special four-monitor card. (There are several "G450" models – you just want any basic one with a PCI interface.)

| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
L
lkrz
Dec 17, 2003
OK, thanks. I see a lot of them – but they’re specified as AGB. Since I’m new at this, will these units fit in a PCI slot – or do I have to look specifically for one that is PCI?

If you’ve got a PCI slot, it needs to be PCI.
Matrox has the card available for $115.
http://shopmatrox.com/usa/products/datasheet.asp?ID=279
Note that the 450 does need an Intel chipset — see note on page above. There are problems with AMD and the 450.
For AMD, get the 550, which will also work on Intel.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography
JG
James Gifford
Dec 17, 2003
"***Jamoke***" wrote:
OK, thanks. I see a lot of them – but they’re specified as AGB. Since I’m new at this, will these units fit in a PCI slot – or do I have to look specifically for one that is PCI?

It has to be PCI.

Here, look at item 2773700361: http://tinyurl.com/znlc. This one is up to $26 only because it’s one of the newer models with a DVI output.

This item is a buy. I’d chase it up to about $40 if I were you. (No, I’m not the seller…)


| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
B
Bobby77501
Dec 17, 2003
Thanks, James. I got a chuckle out of your comment about not being the seller!!!!!! I’ll try to get it.

Bobby

"James Gifford" wrote in message
"***Jamoke***" wrote:
OK, thanks. I see a lot of them – but they’re specified as AGB. Since I’m new at this, will these units fit in a PCI slot – or do I have to look specifically for one that is PCI?

It has to be PCI.

Here, look at item 2773700361: http://tinyurl.com/znlc. This one is up to $26 only because it’s one of the newer models with a DVI output.

This item is a buy. I’d chase it up to about $40 if I were you. (No, I’m not the seller…)


| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |
C
Carve2
Dec 17, 2003
AGP is a different type of connection between card and motherboard, and is a standard on newer motherboards to get the best speed out of newer video cards (mainly for games and the like). PCI cards won’t even fit into AGP slots, and vice versa.

Just for your edification and education! ;^)


Cheers,
Carve2.
______
"***Jamoke***" wrote in message
OK, thanks. I see a lot of them – but they’re specified as AGB. Since
I’m
new at this, will these units fit in a PCI slot – or do I have to look specifically for one that is PCI?

Bobby

"James Gifford" wrote in message
"***Jamoke***" wrote:

Thanks, James. I guess right now, there aren’t any G450’s available on Ebay. The one or two I found were hundreds of $$$. I’ll keep looking though. Thanks……..

That doesn’t sound right at all – I checked at some point during this exchange and found a couple in the $30 range. They were under $200 even when first new!

Here, look at item 2773700361: http://tinyurl.com/znlc. This one is up to $26 only because it’s one of the newer models with a DVI output.
The $225 one listed is a special four-monitor card. (There are several "G450" models – you just want any basic one with a PCI interface.)

| James Gifford * FIX SPAMTRAP TO REPLY |
| So… your philosophy fits in a sig, does it? |
| Heinlein stuff at: www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah |

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