I’m outputting to a device with the correct destination profile…
So is the printer……
I just want someone else who can create a document in CIE RGB / ISO COATED CMYK working space, and output it to their own device (with correct destination profile)…
Then the colour shouldn’t vary… should it?
Obviously it’s going to vary if someone outputs to a HP Laser with an Epson 2100 Inkjet profile assigned as the destination profile…
J
Somebody once told me, that just 6% is too few colour to print properly… Maybe that is an issue. How is your printer acting on other colours?
What are the Lab values of your color?
That should produce less ambiguity.
Given that all involved are properly calibrated and color managed.
Even more ambiguous than CMYK numbers, are color names like "pale blue" or "purple/lilac"
The problem I’ve got John, is that no matter how many times I’ve tried explaining colour management to my client, they don’t seem to grasp that CMYK values will vary, even on two machines sitting next to each other. In this particular case, they even specified an RGB value, and referred to it as a pantone colour.
They declined a cromalin proof, even though I said a true pantone reference would yield more accurate results, and that a cromalin proof would be the only way they could guarantee the colour was what they expected (I must have sent 5 or 6 emails to them warning them that a CMYK value may not be accurate).
I also don’t know what they’re seeing – they say that when they output C61 M42 Y6 K0 to their colour laser, it comes out as a pale blue… no hint of purple whatsoever. When I asked if they had assigned a colour profile, it was like "what’s that?"
I really think the problem stems from them producing a logo designed for the web (JPG), and assuming that it would output in print just as it looks on screen…
but I can’t help the paranoia setting in…. even though I get virtually the same colour on screen as I get on inkjet print, and that matches the output from offset litho…..
I know ‘blue’ and ‘purple’ are vague… but in my output, there is no question of the evidence of purple…. the client swears it’s pale blue, and shouldn’t have ANY TRACE of purple….
I’m waiting for them to send me a print from their laser – and in the mean time, I’m forking out for a Pantone Colour Cue, just so I can get an idea of the CMYK values they’ve output.
All I need is someone with a colour managed setup to say if they think the colour is purple rather than pale blue, or vice versa…
If it turns out it’s blue with no hint of purple, then there is something seriously wrong with the other 400 odd prints that I’ve produced…. 🙂
J.
Sorted.
Somebody with a "Tonwert Atlas" (Tonal Value Guide) for Offset told me that it is in fact more purple than blue… *sigh* Could have saved myself £750 in colour calibration tools if I’d been told sooner!
Must buy myself one of those Tonwert Atlases… they look really useful.
J.
TSK, how can they even trust a laser printer? and maybe they are printing from Corel Draw 😀
I’d do the opposite. Ask them to Print a page of "their" colour on their (unprofiled) color laser Printer. Scan that page on a calibrated scanner, and convert to "Your" CYMK. Get the values and use them instead.
Ask them 40$ more for the job and buy them the book "Real World Color Management" 😀
It appears that their laser printer is more trustworthy than Pantone.
I think they’ve actually printed from Photoshop – but alarm bells began to ring when they supplied the logo for print, as an RGB JPG file… and when I told them it needed to be in vector format for best results, and most certainly in CMYK mode, I received an Illustrator document…….
….with the RGB JPG placed in it.
I don’t know why I even began to get paranoid really…. but I did.
J
Jason,
not necessary to learn German. Tonwert-Atlas = swatch book.
Your color number set:
C61 M42 Y6 K0
My test for Euroscale Coated in the swatch book:
C60 M40 Y5 K0
Measured values by Pantone Color Cue:
C55 M31 Y0 K8 (CMY partly replaced by K)
Lab = 58/-2/-27
The patch in the book doesn´t look purple/lilac.
Looks more like a gray with a little blue – pale blue.
Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
Was that patch solid or process Gernot? The Tonwert-Atlas for Offset has it as a purple, rather than blue…
<
http://www.mhm.de/themen.html>
Now I’m even more confused.
J
Jason,
of course it´s a CMYK process swatch book.
This edition contains all color in steps of 5 for CMYK
each (more expensive editions have smaller steps).
Please look in your Tonwert-Atlas for WHICH process it
was made. At least we have:
Euroscale Coated / Uncoated
SWOP Coated / Uncoated
Euroscale UNCOATED 60/40/5/0 doesn´t look purple either.
Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
Thanks for the info Gernot…
J.
Gernot –
There are two versions of the Tonwert-Atlas:
Tonwert-Atlas Digital – on CD-ROM (which yes, would rely on a calibrated screen, but still wouldn’t have the same gamut or colourspace as print)
Tonwert-Atlas Offset – a physical book.
See: <
http://mhm.de/pages/tonwert.pdf>
Scroll right to the bottom of the PDF.
They do a bundle of them both together.
Kind regards,
J.
Jason,
IMO printed swatch books are really necessary.
I bought my books here:
<
http://www.grafipress.de/cgi-bin/shop/select.cgi?a=list& kid=12>
Probably someone else can tell you a distributor in your region.
Why are printed books so important ?
Because computer simulations are often wrong. They may be correct colorimetrically but the impression is not the same.
E.g. if we have the swatch book then we can compare a print directly. This is impossible for a screen preview.
Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
I know.. I’ve ordered a number of pantone swatches, and I’m trying to order the tonal value guide from huber…. they have an office in the UK, but the guy I spoke to hadn’t ever heard of it…
I fully understand the differences between RGB, CMYK, desktop printer and offset etc, and why printed proof is the only reference you should use… but even so – the output on my Epson 2100 matches the colour (slightly lighter, but same hue) printed by offset litho, which in turn mimics quite accurately what I see on screen.
It’s just annoying when out of 400 odd jobs, I get ONE person complaining about colour mismatch….. and it’s obvious they haven’t ever dealt with colour profiling / matching.
J.
I don’t know why I even began to get paranoid really…
You know, you’re not paranoid if they’re really out to get you 😉
I also had the placed lores image in Illustrator bit happen several times. Most frustrating.
BTW, it is sometimes possible to get tonal value guides from your printer (we made our own for internal use and sometimes show them to clients)
