Canon 40D and Raw under CS2

I just updated my cs3 to handle 40d raw files. You should be able to do the same, check the adobe site for the update.

wrote in message

I have CS2. I am thinking of getting the
new Canon 40D which has 14 bit color in its
raw files.

The CS2 version of raw converter will not handle
the 40D files natively, so I would have to go
the Raw -> DNG -> Adobe Raw.

My question is will this workflow preserve the
14 bit per channel color at the time of raw
conversion, or will I have to upgrade to CS3
to be able to take full advantage of the 14
bits?

Thanks in advance,

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

Dirty Harry writes:

Dirty> I just updated my cs3 to handle 40d raw files. You should be able to do the Dirty> same, check the adobe site for the update.

I have CS2, hence the question about 14 bits and Raw. The new Adobe Raw converter is designed not to work in CS2.

wrote in message

news>

I have CS2. I am thinking of getting the
new Canon 40D which has 14 bit color in its
raw files.

The CS2 version of raw converter will not handle
the 40D files natively, so I would have to go
the Raw -> DNG -> Adobe Raw.

My question is will this workflow preserve the
14 bit per channel color at the time of raw
conversion, or will I have to upgrade to CS3
to be able to take full advantage of the 14
bits?

Thanks in advance,

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

wrote:

Dirty Harry writes:

Dirty> I just updated my cs3 to handle 40d raw files. You should be able to do the Dirty> same, check the adobe site for the update.

I have CS2, hence the question about 14 bits and Raw. The new Adobe Raw converter is designed not to work in CS2.

I think you are right that it seems like Adobe stops supporting older ARC version, and I just checked and CS2 and CS3 have different version of ARC installed on 2 separated folders.

BTW, I have both CS2 and CS3 installed, and CS2 is using ARC v3.7 when CS3 uses ARC v4.02 which supports Canon 40D (I just ordered as another backup since I already have 2 Canon DSLRs).

wrote in message

news>

I have CS2. I am thinking of getting the
new Canon 40D which has 14 bit color in its
raw files.

The CS2 version of raw converter will not handle
the 40D files natively, so I would have to go
the Raw -> DNG -> Adobe Raw.

My question is will this workflow preserve the
14 bit per channel color at the time of raw
conversion, or will I have to upgrade to CS3
to be able to take full advantage of the 14
bits?

Thanks in advance,

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

I have CS2. I am thinking of getting the
new Canon 40D which has 14 bit color in its
raw files.

The CS2 version of raw converter will not handle
the 40D files natively, so I would have to go
the Raw -> DNG -> Adobe Raw.

My question is will this workflow preserve the
14 bit per channel color at the time of raw
conversion, or will I have to upgrade to CS3
to be able to take full advantage of the 14
bits?

Thanks in advance,

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

As I understand it there is no version of Adobe ACR that will work with raw files from the 40D and CS2. Adobe is not going to put out an upgrade to make it happen either. That leaves you with 3 chooses for 40D raw files and CS2:
1-upgrade to CS3.
2-Use the latest version of Adobe DNG converter to convert to DNG and then load them into CS2’s ACR.
3- Use Canon’s or some other third party raw editor.
Adobe is no longer supporting CS2 from what I read.

John Passaneau

John Passaneau writes:

I have CS2. I am thinking of getting the
new Canon 40D which has 14 bit color in its
raw files.

The CS2 version of raw converter will not handle
the 40D files natively, so I would have to go
the Raw -> DNG -> Adobe Raw.

My question is will this workflow preserve the
14 bit per channel color at the time of raw
conversion, or will I have to upgrade to CS3
to be able to take full advantage of the 14
bits?

Thanks in advance,

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

John> As I understand it there is no version of Adobe ACR that will work with John> raw files from the 40D and CS2. Adobe is not going to put out an upgrade John> to make it happen either. That leaves you with 3 chooses for 40D raw John> files and CS2:
John> 1-upgrade to CS3.
John> 2-Use the latest version of Adobe DNG converter to convert to DNG and John> then load them into CS2’s ACR.

I am aware of this option.

My question was with that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?

John> 3- Use Canon’s or some other third party raw editor. John> Adobe is no longer supporting CS2 from what I read.

John> John Passaneau

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

wrote in
news::

John Passaneau writes:

I have CS2. I am thinking of getting the
new Canon 40D which has 14 bit color in its
raw files.

The CS2 version of raw converter will not handle
the 40D files natively, so I would have to go
the Raw -> DNG -> Adobe Raw.

My question is will this workflow preserve the
14 bit per channel color at the time of raw
conversion, or will I have to upgrade to CS3
to be able to take full advantage of the 14
bits?

Thanks in advance,

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

John> As I understand it there is no version of Adobe ACR that will work with John> raw files from the 40D and CS2. Adobe is not going to put out an upgrade John> to make it happen either. That leaves you with 3 chooses for 40D raw John> files and CS2:
John> 1-upgrade to CS3.
John> 2-Use the latest version of Adobe DNG converter to convert to DNG and John> then load them into CS2’s ACR.

I am aware of this option.

My question was with that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?

John> 3- Use Canon’s or some other third party raw editor. John> Adobe is no longer supporting CS2 from what I read.
John> John Passaneau

I don’t know for sure, but as CS2 support for 16 bit files is limited my guess is that it will not support them very well. If you convert a file to 16 bits look and see how much of the options to edit that file are grayed out or limited in CS2. If you can live with what works then it should be OK.

John Passaneau

John Passaneau

John Passaneau wrote:

My question was with that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?

John> 3- Use Canon’s or some other third party raw editor. John> Adobe is no longer supporting CS2 from what I read.
John> John Passaneau

I don’t know for sure, but as CS2 support for 16 bit files is limited my guess is that it will not support them very well. If you convert a file to 16 bits look and see how much of the options to edit that file are grayed out or limited in CS2. If you can live with what works then it should be OK.

How many times can you *NOT* answer a question? The question is whether a 40D RAW file when converted to DNG is still 14 bits, or 12 bits. I’d think it’s still 14 bits. I see no reason why that would change.

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

(Johan W. Elzenga) wrote in
news:1i6rb1o.103v3uo1amta19N%:

John Passaneau wrote:

My question was with that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?

John> 3- Use Canon’s or some other third party raw editor. John> Adobe is no longer supporting CS2 from what I read.
John> John Passaneau

I don’t know for sure, but as CS2 support for 16 bit files is limited

my

guess is that it will not support them very well. If you convert a

file

to 16 bits look and see how much of the options to edit that file are grayed out or limited in CS2. If you can live with what works then it should be OK.

How many times can you *NOT* answer a question? The question is whether a 40D RAW file when converted to DNG is still 14 bits, or 12 bits. I’d think it’s still 14 bits. I see no reason why that would change.

Great reply from Mr. knowitall and a good reason not to read more than 3 or 4 of the replies in news groups.
John Passaneau

John Passaneau wrote:

How many times can you *NOT* answer a question? The question is whether a 40D RAW file when converted to DNG is still 14 bits, or 12 bits. I’d think it’s still 14 bits. I see no reason why that would change.

Great reply from Mr. knowitall and a good reason not to read more than 3 or 4 of the replies in news groups.
John Passaneau

If you leave out your own replies, that would indeed be the number of messages to get the corerect answer. Do read the original question. Here it is:

"My question was will that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?"

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Johan W Elzenga writes:

Johan> John Passaneau wrote:

How many times can you *NOT* answer a question? The question is whether a 40D RAW file when converted to DNG is still 14 bits, or 12 bits. I’d think it’s still 14 bits. I see no reason why that would change.

Great reply from Mr. knowitall and a good reason not to read more than 3 or 4 of the replies in news groups.
John Passaneau

Johan> If you leave out your own replies, that would indeed be the number of Johan> messages to get the corerect answer. Do read the original question. Here Johan> it is:

Johan> "My question was will that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D Johan> in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?"

It is frustrating. I wish someone here knew the answer.

I fear it will be hard to find the right person at Adobe to answer the question.

Thanks for your help.

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

wrote:

Johan> "My question was will that workflow support the 14 bit color of Johan> the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit Johan> color to 12 bit?"

It is frustrating. I wish someone here knew the answer.
I fear it will be hard to find the right person at Adobe to answer the question.

I’m 99% sure that the data will remain 14 bits if you convert from CR2 to DNG. DNG is just another RAW format, so the conversion shouldn’t change the RAW data themselves.

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Johan W Elzenga writes:

wrote:

Johan> "My question was will that workflow support the 14 bit color of Johan> the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit Johan> color to 12 bit?"

It is frustrating. I wish someone here knew the answer.
I fear it will be hard to find the right person at Adobe to answer the question.

Johan> I’m 99% sure that the data will remain 14 bits if you convert from CR2 Johan> to DNG. DNG is just another RAW format, so the conversion shouldn’t Johan> change the RAW data themselves.

Do you know if any cameras before the latest round of Canons had more than 12 bits/channel? If so then I would be 99.9% sure.

Thanks again,

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

wrote:

Johan> I’m 99% sure that the data will remain 14 bits if you convert Johan> from CR2 to DNG. DNG is just another RAW format, so the Johan> conversion shouldn’t change the RAW data themselves.
Do you know if any cameras before the latest round of Canons had more than 12 bits/channel? If so then I would be 99.9% sure.

The Leica M8 is 14 bits, and so is their Digital Module for the R-series AFAIK. PhaseOne digital backs are 14 bits too.

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

wrote:

<snip>

John> As I understand it there is no version of Adobe ACR that will work with John> raw files from the 40D and CS2. Adobe is not going to put out an upgrade John> to make it happen either. That leaves you with 3 chooses for 40D raw John> files and CS2:
John> 1-upgrade to CS3.
John> 2-Use the latest version of Adobe DNG converter to convert to DNG and John> then load them into CS2’s ACR.

I am aware of this option.

My question was with that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?

You do not need to worry about 14-bit as both Photoshop and ARC supports up to somewhere around 32-bit (and I think ARC does more than 32-bit).

John Passaneau wrote:

<snip>

I am aware of this option.

My question was with that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?

John> 3- Use Canon’s or some other third party raw editor. John> Adobe is no longer supporting CS2 from what I read.
John> John Passaneau

I don’t know for sure, but as CS2 support for 16 bit files is limited my guess is that it will not support them very well. If you convert a file to 16 bits look and see how much of the options to edit that file are grayed out or limited in CS2. If you can live with what works then it should be OK.

I used 16-bit mode on CS2 once awhile but never paid any attention to know if CS2 has 32-bit mode or not, but I know CS3 has 32-bit mode. And ARC v3.x supports either 32-bit or eve higher like 38-bit (don’t remember the exact number).

Johan W Elzenga writes:

wrote:

Johan> I’m 99% sure that the data will remain 14 bits if you convert Johan> from CR2 to DNG. DNG is just another RAW format, so the Johan> conversion shouldn’t change the RAW data themselves.

Do you know if any cameras before the latest round of Canons had more than 12 bits/channel? If so then I would be 99.9% sure.

Johan> The Leica M8 is 14 bits, and so is their Digital Module for the R-series Johan> AFAIK. PhaseOne digital backs are 14 bits too.

Thank you. That makes it 99.9…

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)

Joe wrote:

My question was with that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?

You do not need to worry about 14-bit as both Photoshop and ARC supports up to somewhere around 32-bit (and I think ARC does more than 32-bit).

I think you misunderstand the purpose of his question. The question is not if Photoshop supports 14 bits or more. The question is what Adobe DNG Converter does when it converts 14 bits CR2 files to DNG. If those files would be converted to 12 bits DNG rather than 14 bits DNG, you would loose a lot of information.

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

On Oct 31, 9:50 pm, (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

Joe wrote:

My question was with that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?

[snip]

I think you misunderstand the purpose of his question. The question is not if Photoshop supports 14 bits or more. The question is what Adobe DNG Converter does when it converts 14 bits CR2 files to DNG. If those files would be converted to 12 bits DNG rather than 14 bits DNG, you would loose a lot of information.

Some input to this discussion:

A 40D DNG has:
BitsPerSample: 16
WhiteLevel: 13600

Compare this with a typical 12-bit camera (Pentax K10D): BitsPerSample: 16
WhiteLevel: 4095

The WhiteLevel means: "This tag specifies the fully saturated encoding level for the raw sample values. Saturation is caused either by the sensor itself becoming highly non-linear in response, or by the camera’s analog to digital converter clipping."

—
Barry Pearson
http://www.barrypearson.co.uk/photography/

Barry Pearson writes:

Barry> On Oct 31, 9:50 pm, (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

Joe wrote:

My question was with that workflow support the 14 bit color of the 40D in the raw conversion. Or will DNG convert the 14 bit color to 12 bit?

Barry> [snip]

I think you misunderstand the purpose of his question. The question is not if Photoshop supports 14 bits or more. The question is what Adobe DNG Converter does when it converts 14 bits CR2 files to DNG. If those files would be converted to 12 bits DNG rather than 14 bits DNG, you would loose a lot of information.

Barry> Some input to this discussion:

Barry> A 40D DNG has:
BitsPerSample> 16
WhiteLevel> 13600

Barry> Compare this with a typical 12-bit camera (Pentax K10D): BitsPerSample> 16
WhiteLevel> 4095

Barry> The WhiteLevel means: "This tag specifies the fully saturated encoding Barry> level for the raw sample values. Saturation is caused either by the Barry> sensor itself becoming highly non-linear in response, or by the Barry> camera’s analog to digital converter clipping."

So DNG always converts to 16 bit, but does not use the ones not in the original sample.

But why only 13600 instead of 16384 (=2^14)? Does Canon not use quite all of the 14 bits?

Thanks,

—
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in comp.graphics.apps.photoshop…)