ATI Catalyst drivers and Adobe Gamma

NT
Posted By
no.thanks
Apr 8, 2004
Views
1793
Replies
39
Status
Closed
FYI – ATI has just confirmed that as of Catalyst driver build 4.2, 3rd party color calibration tools such as Adobe Gamma, Colorvision’s PhotoCal and Eye1 are no longer supported. According to a statement on their website, "the ATI Color tab [is] a central location to maintain color and gamma profiles". Unfortunately, this colortab is incompatible with 3rd party calibration software.

For people who do need 3rd party tools, the suggested solution is to revert to Catalyst 4.1 or earlier. (And pray that you don’t ever need any of the fixes in later drivers to support new hardware or current problems.)

Unbelievable, IMHO, since ATI basically states that they are no longer interested in having graphics enthusiasts and professionals as customers. This during a time where digital photography and image processing is booming business.

The link to the original ATI statement:

<http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4501.html>

If you want to leave some feedback for ATI, you can use the following URL:

<http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/index.asp>

Regards,
Michiel

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CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 10, 2004
I’ve filed this as a bug with ATI.

I really can’t believe they did something like that.
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 10, 2004
I written ati too (i have a aiw 9700 pro).

Here’s what I wrote, in case any of you other ati’ers are too lazy to compose your own or are looking for suggestions on what to say:

according to your web site:
<http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4501.html>

you say:

"By design of these drivers, all color and gamma settings are controlled via the ATI Color tab in Display Properties."

This is unacceptable. As a user of adobe color management. I do not want or need my video driver to override my gamma settings. Please remove this bug/feature.

The only way they’ll know that this kind of thing pisses you off is to write and tell ’em people! SO GET WRITING!
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 11, 2004
Man what a bitc bear I just had reverting to the catalyst 441 drivers!
H
Ho
Apr 11, 2004
Dave,

Here are some options to make ATI driver uninstalls less painful:

A step-by-step removal guide
removal instructions < http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=4e6572f4ff1c183 858f07890f68950b2&threadid=33656771&highlight=foolpr oof>

or ATI’s uninstall utilities
<http://www.ati.com/support/drivers/misc/catalystutils.html>
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 11, 2004
I did all that. But kept thinking "one version back" So I went through a bunch of drivers until I settled on 4.41. My "Medal of Honor: Battlefield" was crashing constantly with anything greater. Thankfully it’s working now and I can get back to saving the world from the Nazi scourge.

Hey don’t get me wrong. As much of a pita it was, it was still cake compared to the coniptions you had to go through in the win 9x/me or even NT days! πŸ™‚

Thanks Howard.
H
Ho
Apr 11, 2004
Dave,

Have you tried Omega’a drivers for ATI cards? I’m using a lowly 7500 and his drivers work very well for me. Many folks seem to think they are a cut above the standard issue.

<http://www.driverheaven.net/downloads/index4.htm>
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 12, 2004
hmmm…. never heard of em. who are they? why would they give away drivers for free?
H
Ho
Apr 12, 2004
Omega produces modded ATI drivers (with their blessing) that are tweaked for gamers. They sometimes have an additional advantage of not only being faster, but just plain better. Some folks don’t see much improvement, some do. Usual disclaimers apply. Why does he give drivers away? Because he can. He gladly accepts donations and it looks like he has sponsors. Here is a blurb from his site:

* *****************

(11/09/03)

The Omega Drivers have been recognized by ATI as the best modded drivers in the internet!!!

Here is a quote from Terry Makedon when he was interviewed by a German Magazine:

"ATI supports the enthusiast community wholly. Omega Drivers are in fact a good example of ATIΒ’s user community at its best. What they are in principle are CATALYST drivers with different settings enabled via registry keys and other such methods. This provides users an alternative to ATIΒ’s CATALYST default settings. While there are a few different modification drivers out in the community our relationship with the creator of the Omega Drivers is of the highest working standard. The author of these drivers is part of the CATALYST beta driver testing team, and also in direct contact with ATI. In fact we would go so far as to say that if a user chooses to go the mod driver route, they go with the Omega Drivers."

Many thanks to ATI and their support team for this honor!

Also, many thanks to all the Omega Driver users all around the world for their support.

Remember that I do this as a free service, to make life more enjoyable for gamers, but if you feel my work and efforts are worth it, please donate.

* *****************

<http://www.omegacorner.com/>
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 12, 2004
hmm… thanks howard. maybe i’ll give them a try!

dave
R
rbmorse
Apr 14, 2004
While I’m in agreement that ATI’s actions are unfortunate, I can achieve a perfectly usuable gamma calibration with ATI’s new driver for my Sony SDM-81 LCD. It’s not perfect but it’s very close, probably as close as this particular display ever gets. The Sony is not the best, but next time I’ll know better.
BB
brent_bertram
Apr 14, 2004
rbmorse,
Does your ATI driver take that calibration information and create a useable monitor profile ? That’s been the rub with all 3d party easy screen adjustment routines, lack of a profile to load the video LUT at startup to "zero" the display .

πŸ™‚

Brent
JH
Jake_Hannam
Apr 14, 2004
This is an interesting conversation but it has me wondering whether Adobe Gamma is the only way to go with Photoshop. Is there any reason why you could not use the ATI gamma corrections in lieu of Adobe Gamma? I really don’t know.

I have an ATI 9700 Pro and just ordered a new 19" monitor, Mitsubishi 930SB. Although I always used Adobe Gamma in the past, I also usually downloaded the latest ATI drivers for my card.

What will happen if there is a conflict between the Adobe Gamma and the ATI drivers? What will be the indicators that there is a conflict or incompatibility?

By the way, does anyone have an opinion on the Mitsubishi? Did I make a good choice?
BB
brent_bertram
Apr 14, 2004
Jake,
The indication of a problem is when running the adobe gamma utility. If the gamma utility sliders do not change the screen , then the utility is not communicating with the video LUT of the graphics card . Without that communication , you can’t calibrate your monitor and save an accurate monitor profile.

Adobe Gamma is not the only way to go, its just the only "free" way to go since it’s supplied with some Adobe products. The ATI catalyst driver problem also affects my Monaco Gamma utility ( I use Monaco EZcolor ) . Catalyst drivers prior to version 4.2, are compatible with Adobe Gamma.

πŸ™‚

Brent
JH
Jake_Hannam
Apr 14, 2004
Thanks, Brent. I will have to try it when I get home because I’m pretty sure I have the latest ATI driver version. I haven’t used PS lately so have not noticed if there is a problem.

I also sent a note to ATI expressing my displeasure with their policy.
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 14, 2004
Jake – you can calibrate the display using ATI’s software, but you can’t create a profile for the display. Photoshop (and other color managed applications) needs both parts.
JH
Jake_Hannam
Apr 15, 2004
Brent and Chris,

Thanks. As Brent indicated, Adobe Gamma sliders do NOT work with version 4.2 of Catalyst.

Well, this is ATI’s loss because I was thinking about buying a Radeon 9800XT for my new monitor. Now, I’ll just stick with what I have and downgrade to an older driver until ATI figures out what it plans to do.

By the way, ATI does NOT read your comments or suggestions. They just send one of those automated replies that has no value whatsoever.

Jake
I
ID._Awe
Apr 15, 2004
That’s one thing about Matrox they do listen, they have forums moderated by their techs. They respond within one business day(EST).
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 15, 2004
By the way, ATI does NOT read your comments or suggestions. They just send one of those automated replies that has no value whatsoever.

I’ve yet to hear back from this after sending my note a few days back…
CK
Christine_Krof_Shock
Apr 15, 2004
Didn’t hear either–so no All in Wonder card for me–any suggestions for an alternative Video in/Video out card…the Premier/After Effects box is on the drawing board!!!
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 15, 2004
I REAAAAALY like watching the Jets on my system though. The 8xAGP 9700 pro (and acompanying tv software) has great a quality picture w/image grabbing. My bet is they’ll work it out. I’m sticking with ATI.
BB
brent_bertram
Apr 15, 2004
I’d certainly stick with them until the 4.1 drivers were no longer sufficient. Gotta think something’s going to budge, here .

πŸ™‚
PC
Pierre_Courtejoie
Apr 15, 2004
has someone tested the omega drivers?
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 15, 2004
I have yet to hear back from ATI from the normal channels, so I tried another channel.
DN
DS_Nelson
Apr 15, 2004
That’s easy for you to say, since you probably wrote the code for the channel mixer.

<groan>
CC
Chris_Cox
Apr 15, 2004
Yeah, if I don’t hear back soon I’ll have to mix it up with yet another channel.
GC
Graeme Cogger
Apr 15, 2004
In article ,
says…
FYI – ATI has just confirmed that as of Catalyst driver build 4.2, 3rd party color calibration tools such as Adobe Gamma, Colorvision’s PhotoCal and Eye1 are no longer supported. According to a statement on their website, "the ATI Color tab [is] a central location to maintain color and gamma profiles". Unfortunately, this colortab is incompatible with 3rd party calibration software.

For people who do need 3rd party tools, the suggested solution is to revert to Catalyst 4.1 or earlier. (And pray that you don’t ever need any of the fixes in later drivers to support new hardware or current problems.)

Unbelievable, IMHO, since ATI basically states that they are no longer interested in having graphics enthusiasts and professionals as customers. This during a time where digital photography and image processing is booming business.

The link to the original ATI statement:

<http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4501.html>

If you want to leave some feedback for ATI, you can use the following URL:
<http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/index.asp>

Regards,
Michiel

ATI have posted a hotfix for this issue, available at:
http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4501.html

They claim it will be fixed in future drivers πŸ™‚
H
Ho
Apr 15, 2004
has someone tested the omega drivers?

I’m using an older version that is most compatible with my R7500. I will email Omega to see if he can add a "switch" to allow the user to choose which system he wishes to use. If that is not possible, I will encourage him do disable the ATI color tab altogether. I don’t know how much clamor their will be for this outside our ranks, but maybe if we ALL send an email…

NV
Neil_Vanderwolf
Apr 16, 2004
Thought you all may like this, I haven’t had a chance to install it yet but Adobe just emailed this fix to me:

<http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4501.html>

Hopefully that does the trick.

Neil
R
rbmorse
Apr 16, 2004
No, but in the meantime ATI may have addressed the problem:

<http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4501.html>

It just came up so I haven’t had a chance to play with it.

Regards
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 16, 2004
<http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4501.html>

that’s good news. ati has always been (imo) very responsive with it’s drivers. i hope they don’t drop the ball on this one.

maybe they’re not answering their email because they’re too busy coding the fix?!! πŸ™‚
JH
Jake_Hannam
Apr 16, 2004
"maybe they’re not answering their email because they’re too busy coding the fix?!! "

Let’s hope that’s the case. I agree with Dave that ATI has always been responsive and quick to fix problems with their drivers but, in this case, it almost sounds as if it was a conscious decision to "break" Adobe Gamma. For what reason, I have no clue. I do hope I am wrong.

Jake
JH
Jake_Hannam
Apr 16, 2004
Has anyone tried the hotfix? Does it work?

I will have to wait until I get home to try it. Hopefully, my new Mitsubishi 19" monitor will be waiting for me when I get there!

Jake
JH
Jake_Hannam
Apr 17, 2004
For anyone interested …

First, I got my new monitor! Nice!

Second, I loaded the hotfix from ATI and it did indeed restore functionality of Adobe Gamma. I am using version 4.2 of the ATI driver but will probably update it now to 4.4.

This may be something I have done wrong (especially since I am just getting the feel for my monitor) but I DID notice that in PS CS (and in Painter) the menu windows now sort of "fade in" when I click on them instead of popping up as before. It is only a matter of a second or two but it is noticeable. As I said, this may be a characteristic of the new monitor or it could be that I am using a higher screen size now (1280 x 1024) vs 1024 that I used to use on my Viewsonic. Then again, it might be due to the hotfix.

I’d like to hear what others with the ATI driver and hotfix experience.

Jake
H
Ho
Apr 17, 2004
Email received from Omega:

….the current problem with gamma is not because of the color CP, is because of change in the driver’s behavior that ATI implemented. Anyway, I’ll be releasing an update of my drivers with the gamma fix included soon.
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 18, 2004
so far so good running with the patch… BUT. I get a crash on the ati control panel app (which I don’t use anyway) AND the new patch is NOT XP signed (but the main 442 driver is.) I guess they rushed it out. hopefully they’ll do a rollup soon and get it signed correctly.
JH
Jake_Hannam
Apr 18, 2004
Dave,

Did you get the slow fade-in of menus I mentioned? I also noticed some programs (System Mechanic and a few others I don’t recall) did not seem to want to redraw the screen. It was almost as if two applications were fighting each other for precedence.

For those reasons, I have since uninstalled the hotfix and will wait for a good fix from ATI.

Jake

P.s. Uninstalling the hotfix and loading version 4.4 (previously I had 4.2) did seem to fix these problems above but, of course, Adobe Gamma no longer works.

Jake
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 18, 2004
442 + the hotfix = no fade in menus…

you want to do this to turn off the slow menus:

start: control panel: system: select advanced tab: select performance, settings button. select adjust for best performance option. hit apply. hit ok.

sounds like some of those settings got reset.
JH
Jake_Hannam
Apr 18, 2004
Thanks, Dave. That didn’t occur to me. Now that I have 4.4 (442?) maybe I will try the hotfix again.

Jake
DM
dave_milbut
Apr 18, 2004
right… 4.4 (sorry. :)) the hotfix allows for use of adobe gamma, but as i said, it’s not xp signed. my guess is they need to do some more testing, but rushed this out to appease chris c. πŸ˜‰

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