Can I run two video cards?

Ctein wrote:

I’ve got a Win 2K SP4 system currently running a Matrox P650 AGP (4X) video card. That card is great for my Photoshop work, but it hasn’t got the oomph to run modern games. I was wondering if there were any way to run a second video card from one of the PCI slots?

Yes, this is not an uncommon configuration.

Cheers,
Nicholas Sherlock

"Nicholas Sherlock" wrote in message

Ctein wrote:

I’ve got a Win 2K SP4 system currently running a Matrox P650 AGP (4X) video
card. That card is great for my Photoshop work, but it hasn’t got the oomph to run modern games. I was wondering if there were any way to run a second video card from one of the PCI slots?

Yes, this is not an uncommon configuration.

Cheers,
Nicholas Sherlock

get your self a dual video card, will work ok..

Ctein wrote:

A question for the graphics hardware gurus…

I’ve got a Win 2K SP4 system currently running a Matrox P650 AGP (4X) video card. That card is great for my Photoshop work, but it hasn’t got the oomph to run modern games. I was wondering if there were any way to run a second video card from one of the PCI slots? Ideal would be a simulataneous dual monitor arrangement, but I’d be happy if I could simply boot Win2K using the single card of my choice.

Cards that are very good for games or very good for professional graphic arts aren’t that expensive (vis the P650). Cards that are very good at both are *pricey*! Hence my interest in wondering if there’s any way I could do this– use the Matrox AGP for my work and some other PCI card for play.
Thanks!

Ctein

Heavy videocards rely on AGP (or PCIe) and not on the old PCI slots. I use two separate video cards, one AGP for my 22" CRT and one on PCI for my LCD. My experience with dualhead cards is bad, because of proper color settings for two different screens on a single card appears to be impossible 🙁
My AGP card is a dual head, but I only use one of the outputs.

Waldo

Dear Nicholas, Roy and Waldo,

It’s not about running dual monitors– the P650 has dual outputs. It’s about running dual CARDS, one selected for its games performance, the other for its graphics performance.

But what you’re telling me is that I may very well not be able to find a PCI card that will perform well enough for modern games, right? Which would make that plan moot.

In that case, are there any cards that people here would recommend that are good games cards and good cards for professional graphics folks like moi? I don’t need a GREAT games card– I’m not into real-time shootemups and that ilk. Just something that will run Flight Simulator, Myst V and Civ IV at a bearable frame rate (which the P650 will not).

Thanks!

Ctein

P.S. Umm, to be specific, "are there any AGP cards that people here would
recommend…"

Left out that AGP part <ahem>.

"Ctein" wrote in message

Dear Nicholas, Roy and Waldo,

It’s not about running dual monitors– the P650 has dual outputs. It’s about
running dual CARDS, one selected for its games performance, the other for its graphics performance.

But what you’re telling me is that I may very well not be able to find a PCI
card that will perform well enough for modern games, right? Which would make
that plan moot.

In that case, are there any cards that people here would recommend that are
good games cards and good cards for professional graphics folks like moi? I
don’t need a GREAT games card– I’m not into real-time shootemups and that ilk. Just something that will run Flight Simulator, Myst V and Civ IV at a bearable frame rate (which the P650 will not).

Hi Ctein,

Flight Sim, Myst, and Civilization will scream on a PCI card like the Geforce4. Get one with at least 128 meg. Matrox has a well deserved rep for quality and stability, and I would be reluctant to change your basic setup if you are otherwise happy with it.

But if you want to take the plunge, there are any number of AGP boards that will get the job done very nicely, thank you, and the video quality will be excellent. In some cases, particularly with boards that support TV out, the signal using the DVI->XGA adapter may be cleaner than what you get from the XGA connector on the same board.
—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

In article <C0071B18.1E1F3%>, Ctein wrote:

Dear Nicholas, Roy and Waldo,

It’s not about running dual monitors– the P650 has dual outputs. It’s about running dual CARDS, one selected for its games performance, the other for its graphics performance.

But what you’re telling me is that I may very well not be able to find a PCI card that will perform well enough for modern games, right? Which would make that plan moot.

I can’t speak to your definitation of "well enough".

PCI will suck for something like 3D. Of course you could make your AGP card the gaming video and use the PCI card for Photoshop. That should work. PS doesn’t make a video card work hard.

In that case, are there any cards that people here would recommend that are good games cards and good cards for professional graphics folks like moi? I don’t need a GREAT games card– I’m not into real-time shootemups and that ilk. Just something that will run Flight Simulator, Myst V and Civ IV at a bearable frame rate (which the P650 will not).

Matrox cards always get good comments. I just priced the dual head AGP flavor at $150.

—
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don’t blame me. I voted for Gore.

From: "Mike Russell"

Flight Sim, Myst, and Civilization will scream on a PCI card like the Geforce4. Get one with at least 128 meg. …

But if you want to take the plunge, there are any number of AGP boards that will get the job done very nicely, thank you, and the video quality will be excellent.

Dear Mike,

Hey, nice to hear from you!

OK, this seems in contradiction to what most other folks are saying, which is that PCI won’t hack it. So I need to query further. Are you speaking from first-hand knowledge (always worth more than collective ‘opinion’)? Also, is it clear that I’m talking about the latest versions of the games: things like Civ IV and Myst V, which are demanding pretty serious 3D rendering?

Regarding Plan B, can you (or someone else) make specific make and model recommendations for AGP4X cards that will make me happy with both Photoshop and my games? Price *IS* a paramount issue, but I don’t even know which ones would be decent. I’ve always just bought Matrox… (and, no, they don’t make a faster AGP card, so I can’t turn to them).

Thanks!

Ctein

"Ctein" wrote in message

A question for the graphics hardware gurus…

I’ve got a Win 2K SP4 system currently running a Matrox P650 AGP (4X) video
card. That card is great for my Photoshop work, but it hasn’t got the oomph to run modern games. I was wondering if there were any way to run a second video card from one of the PCI slots? Ideal would be a simulataneous
dual monitor arrangement, but I’d be happy if I could simply boot Win2K using the single card of my choice.

Cards that are very good for games or very good for professional graphic arts aren’t that expensive (vis the P650). Cards that are very good at both
are *pricey*! Hence my interest in wondering if there’s any way I could do this– use the Matrox AGP for my work and some other PCI card for play.
Thanks!

Ctein

I am a gamer Unreal tournament 2004 online 3d hardcore
Before I got this comp I always used NVIDIA cards, in this comp I went with advice of a fellow gamer and techie and got a Radeon X300, it is in a PCI slot.(128) It does have support for 2 monitors. I am more happy with the ATI drivers than I ever was from NVIDIA.
At the time I would’ve liked an x800 (256) but could not swing the extra $ just for gaming.
..I am sure the prices on the x800 have come down in the 1.5 years since I upgraded comp.
PS does fine on any vid card I have ever had, runs fine with the onboard vid in the mobo. So go for the gaming card and PS will be just fine. Also no matter how great vid card you have the games are even more dependent upon a great, fast connection.

"Ctein" wrote in message
[re combinations of PCI and AGP cards for photoshop and/or games]

OK, this seems in contradiction to what most other folks are saying, which is that PCI won’t hack it. So I need to query further. Are you speaking from
first-hand knowledge (always worth more than collective ‘opinion’)? Also, is
it clear that I’m talking about the latest versions of the games: things like Civ IV and Myst V, which are demanding pretty serious 3D rendering?

Most of my "first" hand experience is with first person shooters. My rather ancient Geforce4 (an AGP 4x board) running on an AGP 2x motherboard is very smooth for the older FPS’s like Unreal Tournament, and works serviceably well even for the newer Grand Theft Auto, San Andreas. I’m figuring this is somewhat, but not a lot, faster than a PCI board with similar chip architecture.

Regarding Plan B, can you (or someone else) make specific make and model recommendations for AGP4X cards that will make me happy with both Photoshop
and my games? Price *IS* a paramount issue, but I don’t even know which ones
would be decent. I’ve always just bought Matrox… (and, no, they don’t make
a faster AGP card, so I can’t turn to them).

Going AGP is the cleaner solution, even if it involves walking away from the Matrox. BTW I’ve found that the least expensive option is to go to the home of your favorite teenagers, preferably one with the components of a water-cooled custom system strewn on the floor, and look through his box of discarded AGP cards.

Heck, if you decide you like Matrox’s quality better, why not get an old Millennium II and have *it* be the PCI board.

I’ll consult with my own expert and follow-up offline.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

Dear Kat,

"I am a gamer Unreal tournament 2004 online 3d hardcore"

It’s great to talk to someone else who likes their games! We really need a special hardware Forum just for graphic artist/gamer hybrids like us and our special needs. < grin >

Happily I have not gotten seduced by online gaming and am not likely to. So (a) I still have a little free time in my life and (b) connection bandwidth isn’t an issue.

I’ve been discussing my Special Needs with the folks over in the Civilization IV Technical Forum and they’re unanimous that with my plain old vanilla PCI bus, I’m not going to see significantly better video performance from any card than I’m getting out of my Matrox P650 AGP4X card. Their recommendations are very much in line with yours: get a mid-range GeForce or ATI AGP card and I should be entirely happy. Now I’m trying to decide which one < wry smile >. Personally I’m leaning towards the GeForce 6600GT because one of the folks over there is running a system configuration extremely similar to mine and using that card, so I figure that minimizes the chances of unpleasant surprises < fingers firmly crossed > . Those cards seem to be priced moderately enough that I can recoup most of the cost by selling my Matrox card. Does this sound like a plausible choice to you?

"So go for the gaming card and PS will be just fine."

I really don’t have to worry about video stability these days from a "games" card? I still remember too well the days when you had to make a choice between being able to pump lots of pixels through reliably (games) and getting rock-steady pixels with no jitter, color or brightness fluctuations or signal variation and real long-term stability (Photoshop). You’re saying those days are pretty much past?

Sorry to be asking for so much hand-holding and reassurance. I bought this Matrox Parhelia-class card for myself as a Christmas present precisely so I could finally play these games (without sacrificing Photoshop quality) and it was quite a disappointment to find out that it just didn’t have the performance for satisfactory play. I really want to avoid getting burned again.

Thanks so much for your help and advice.

pax / Ctein
[[ Please excuse any word-salad. ViaVoice in training! ]] =========================================
— Ctein’s Online Gallery http://www.ctein.com
— Digital Restorations http://photo-repair.com =========================================

Personally I’m leaning towards the GeForce 6600GT

That’s what I put in the Winders box I made last month. The box runs Photoshop and Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, and that’s about it. For my usage the 6600GT seemed about the right performance/price trade off.

I get the feeling that the days of general purpose and 3D graphics cards being unable to do what Photoshop requires of them are pretty much over. I’m not sure what the advantage of Matrox ever was, but all the graphics cards I’ve used in the last 3 years or so (since I started with Photoshop) have all done a fine job.

This time round I didn’t give Photoshop a thought when I bought the graphics card. I chose the one that would give me best games performance for my money, on the assumption that whatever it was, Photoshop would work very nicely with it. It did.

So when Katwoman said "So go for the gaming card and PS will be just fine" she was exactly right in my experience.

"Ctein" wrote in message

Dear Kat,

"I am a gamer Unreal tournament 2004 online 3d hardcore"

It’s great to talk to someone else who likes their games! We really need a special hardware Forum just for graphic artist/gamer hybrids like us and our
special needs. < grin >

Happily I have not gotten seduced by online gaming and am not likely to. So
(a) I still have a little free time in my life and (b) connection bandwidth
isn’t an issue.

I’ve been discussing my Special Needs with the folks over in the Civilization IV Technical Forum and they’re unanimous that with my plain old
vanilla PCI bus, I’m not going to see significantly better video performance
from any card than I’m getting out of my Matrox P650 AGP4X card. Their recommendations are very much in line with yours: get a mid-range GeForce or
ATI AGP card and I should be entirely happy. Now I’m trying to decide which one < wry smile >. Personally I’m leaning towards the GeForce 6600GT
because one of the folks over there is running a system configuration extremely similar to mine and using that card, so I figure that minimizes the chances of unpleasant surprises < fingers firmly crossed > . Those cards
seem to be priced moderately enough that I can recoup most of the cost by selling my Matrox card. Does this sound like a plausible choice to you?

"So go for the gaming card and PS will be just fine."

I really don’t have to worry about video stability these days from a "games"
card? I still remember too well the days when you had to make a choice between being able to pump lots of pixels through reliably (games) and getting rock-steady pixels with no jitter, color or brightness fluctuations
or signal variation and real long-term stability (Photoshop). You’re saying
those days are pretty much past?

Sorry to be asking for so much hand-holding and reassurance. I bought this
Matrox Parhelia-class card for myself as a Christmas present precisely so I
could finally play these games (without sacrificing Photoshop quality) and it was quite a disappointment to find out that it just didn’t have the performance for satisfactory play. I really want to avoid getting burned again.

Thanks so much for your help and advice.

this is what my advisor said:
In general though, you don’t need a pci network card since any motherboard you get is gonna have an onboard lan card. As far as the video and sound cards are concerned, I would be sure to get a decent sound card (audigy preferrably) because it will make a difference in your gaming, and for video I would definitely look at a Radeon right now, but DON’T get any one that says it is an SE card, make sure it is at least one of the XT cards or one of the newer X800 etc cards.

so make sure to get at least 128 if you can swing it 256 is better for the newest games
also make sure to get a decent sound card, it does affect game performance.

Dear Kat and Derek,

Thank you very much for your (and everyone else’s) hands-on advice! I ended up ordering a XFX 6600GT 256 meg AGP card because three different people reported to me that they were using the 6600 with Photoshop and with games like Civ IV and entirely happy . Not that I don’t think the ATI card would’ve been great, more a case of the devil I know ( plus one of the people is running a system so much like mine that it makes me much more confident that I won’t run into any compatibility issues). I should have it the middle of this week. Now I need to go out and buy a bigger power supply to drive the monster. I’m thinking of small PC-compatible nuke will probably handle the load. At least until next generation of video card comes out.

The main advantage of the Matrox card was an absolutely rock-solid analog signal (and I am still running CRTs, so that matters) but several people assured me that the 6600 boards have well-stabilized analog circuitry. So, yes, it may be that the Matrox advantage no longer matters in practice. I guess I’m going to be a test case for that < wry smile >.

Having settled this matter something you said, Kat, surprised me, which is that the sound card affects game performance? I’m a little surprised to find out that ever matters. I would’ve thought audio bandwith was minuscule compared to the data bandwidth of a modern computer. Is it going to matter for the single-person, non-network games that I favor, like Flight Simulator and Civ?

If so, what would be the CHEAPEST PCI audio card worth getting? Keep in mind that I am not an audio junkie; I’m only interested in this for any performance improvements that might provide.

Wandering a bit far afield from computer graphics, now, but I trust folks will be a little tolerant …

Thanks again for your extraordinarily helpfulness.

pax / Ctein
[[ Please excuse any word-salad. ViaVoice in training! ]] =========================================
— Ctein’s Online Gallery http://www.ctein.com
— Digital Restorations http://photo-repair.com =========================================