Should black and white pictures be black and white?

DF
Posted By
Derek Fountain
Dec 18, 2005
Views
402
Replies
9
Status
Closed
Now, here’s a daft sounding question. :o)

I’ve got an old photo from the 50’s that I need to restore. It’s a bit faded and has several orange-ish blotches, but this is basically a dust and scratches job.

The thing is, the photo has a slight discolouration. My instinctive reaction was, well, this was taken as a black and white shot, so any colour in there must be discolouration. But moving the saturation slider right down to zero makes the photo look a bit flat. There’s something not right, but I can’t quite put my finger on what it is.

So, my first question is, are black and white photos by definition all shades of grey, or do they actually have a hint of colour in them?


<a href="http://www.derekfountain.org/">Derek Fountain</a> on the web at http://www.derekfountain.org/

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GP
Gene Palmiter
Dec 18, 2005
Go here and check out the current challenge
http://www.curvemeister.com/Challenge/

It’s a color photo where almost all the dyes are faded out. There is something called split toning where different values are toned with different chemicals. This usually makes a photograph lasts longer…and yours isn’t so old really.


Thanks,
Gene Palmiter
(visit my photo gallery at http://palmiter.dotphoto.com) freebridge design group

"Derek Fountain" wrote in message
Now, here’s a daft sounding question. :o)

I’ve got an old photo from the 50’s that I need to restore. It’s a bit faded and has several orange-ish blotches, but this is basically a dust and scratches job.

The thing is, the photo has a slight discolouration. My instinctive reaction was, well, this was taken as a black and white shot, so any colour in there must be discolouration. But moving the saturation slider right down to zero makes the photo look a bit flat. There’s something not right, but I can’t quite put my finger on what it is.

So, my first question is, are black and white photos by definition all shades of grey, or do they actually have a hint of colour in them?

<a href="http://www.derekfountain.org/">Derek Fountain</a> on the web at http://www.derekfountain.org/
R
Roberto
Dec 18, 2005
"Derek Fountain" wrote in message

The thing is, the photo has a slight discolouration. My instinctive reaction was, well, this was taken as a black and white shot, so any colour in there must be discolouration.

It is possibly discoloration due to a rushed printing job (not thoroughly washed, or possibly fixed). It could also be intentional toning. If it’s a little snapshot, it’s probably the former.

You might enjoy the outcome if you convert it to monochrome, then play with mode-duotone or mode-tritones.
T
Tacit
Dec 19, 2005
In article <43a55cc1$0$1463$>,
Derek Fountain wrote:

The thing is, the photo has a slight discolouration. My instinctive reaction was, well, this was taken as a black and white shot, so any colour in there must be discolouration. But moving the saturation slider right down to zero makes the photo look a bit flat. There’s something not right, but I can’t quite put my finger on what it is.

Probably contrast, which you can adjust by Image->Adjust->Curves. (Avoid Image->Adjust->Brightness/Contrast; it degrades the quality of the image by clipping hilight and shadow detail.)

So, my first question is, are black and white photos by definition all shades of grey, or do they actually have a hint of colour in them?

A neutral-tone black and white photograph is shades of gray, and has no color in it.


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
R
Roberto
Dec 20, 2005
"tacit" wrote in message

A neutral-tone black and white photograph is shades of gray, and has no color in it.

As usual, tacit is correct – but some old B&W photos are stained due to negligence during processing. This is important – if you have stained B&W, do not change the mode to ‘monochrome’ until you think you are done because you can use curves to match them to the gray tone they should be. Desaturating alone won’t always do the trick.

If we are lucky, the Curvemeister will chime in here with specific help.

(sorry for nit-picking tacit)
C
Clyde
Dec 20, 2005
tacit wrote:
In article <43a55cc1$0$1463$>,
Derek Fountain wrote:

The thing is, the photo has a slight discolouration. My instinctive reaction was, well, this was taken as a black and white shot, so any colour in there must be discolouration. But moving the saturation slider right down to zero makes the photo look a bit flat. There’s something not right, but I can’t quite put my finger on what it is.

Probably contrast, which you can adjust by Image->Adjust->Curves. (Avoid Image->Adjust->Brightness/Contrast; it degrades the quality of the image by clipping hilight and shadow detail.)

So, my first question is, are black and white photos by definition all shades of grey, or do they actually have a hint of colour in them?

A neutral-tone black and white photograph is shades of gray, and has no color in it.

Except when you tone the B&W print. In the old days, I toned most of my B&W prints. This was to help preserve the print. (I thought I was making art that needed to last for at least a century. <ha>)

I can’t remember any toners that didn’t leave some color to the B&W print. They would often improve the richness of the print. So it was part of the process to enhance the picture.

I guess I did so much of that during the wet years that I’ve continued into the Photoshop darkroom. I still "tone" all my B&W prints by making them duotones. This looks good to me and it improves the picture. Well, it uses the color inks to make a smoother print.

Clyde
LI
Lorem Ipsum
Dec 20, 2005
"Clyde" wrote in message

Except when you tone the B&W print. In the old days, […]

Hold on, Partner. We ain’t dead yet. We still tone images the ‘old’ way.
GP
Gene Palmiter
Dec 21, 2005
I read something recently…maybe at luminous landscape…that indicated that my printer, don’t know about others, the Epson 2200, uses all the inks even when printing a BW image. This gives better tones, but can leave a cast. So, I duotone so I can control the cast should I prefer a warm tone or a cold one.

Note that in the prehistoric days of wet processes not all toning gave as strong an effect as sepia. I have used selium and gold, both of which are cold and rich..but not strong.


Thanks,
Gene Palmiter
(visit my photo gallery at http://palmiter.dotphoto.com) freebridge design group

"Clyde" wrote in message
tacit wrote:
In article <43a55cc1$0$1463$>,
Derek Fountain wrote:

The thing is, the photo has a slight discolouration. My instinctive reaction was, well, this was taken as a black and white shot, so any colour in there must be discolouration. But moving the saturation slider right down to zero makes the photo look a bit flat. There’s something not right, but I can’t quite put my finger on what it is.

Probably contrast, which you can adjust by Image->Adjust->Curves. (Avoid Image->Adjust->Brightness/Contrast; it degrades the quality of the image by clipping hilight and shadow detail.)

So, my first question is, are black and white photos by definition all shades of grey, or do they actually have a hint of colour in them?

A neutral-tone black and white photograph is shades of gray, and has no color in it.

Except when you tone the B&W print. In the old days, I toned most of my B&W prints. This was to help preserve the print. (I thought I was making art that needed to last for at least a century. <ha>)
I can’t remember any toners that didn’t leave some color to the B&W print. They would often improve the richness of the print. So it was part of the process to enhance the picture.

I guess I did so much of that during the wet years that I’ve continued into the Photoshop darkroom. I still "tone" all my B&W prints by making them duotones. This looks good to me and it improves the picture. Well, it uses the color inks to make a smoother print.

Clyde
C
Clyde
Dec 21, 2005
Lorem Ipsum wrote:
"Clyde" wrote in message

Except when you tone the B&W print. In the old days, […]

Hold on, Partner. We ain’t dead yet. We still tone images the ‘old’ way.

Ah, you are getting rarer and rarer. I dumped all my "wet" stuff on eBay about 3 years ago. I was using Photoshop for many years before that and finally made the move. I have not regretted it for a minute.

There always will be someone doing "wet" photography. In the history of art, no new media has eliminated any old media. Of course, the old media may not have much of a market; hence Kodak’s ending of B&W paper manufacturing.

There will always be companies like "Photographer’s Formulary" that will have the stuff you need to do the old, out-of-market processes. It may cost you to buy supplies in such a small market, but the dedicated nut won’t mind.

New technology might even help the old. I never shot bigger than a 4×5 camera. That doesn’t make very big platinum prints. I’ve been tempted to get a platinum kit and frame and make some platinum prints from digital negatives. That is something that I really couldn’t do before.

Clyde
S
Skinner1
Dec 28, 2005
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 08:23:08 -0600, "Lorem Ipsum" wrote:

"Derek Fountain" wrote in message

The thing is, the photo has a slight discolouration. My instinctive reaction was, well, this was taken as a black and white shot, so any colour in there must be discolouration.

It is possibly discoloration due to a rushed printing job (not thoroughly washed, or possibly fixed). It could also be intentional toning. If it’s a little snapshot, it’s probably the former.

You might enjoy the outcome if you convert it to monochrome, then play with mode-duotone or mode-tritones.

Ya. Converting to Monotone and touching up might be the only way to go.

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