Centralized x Distributed cache in Bridge.

Joseph Chamberlain, DDS wrote:

(If you really want to ask questions in two forums, it is better to cross-post than multi-post).

Dear members:

I am faced with the choice of selecting either centralized cache or distributed cache for Bridge.

The benefit of using distributed cache is that the sidecar .xmp file is saved in the same folder where the images are making it simple to export it along with the images when they need to be transferred to another location in the system or transferred to another computer. The problem however is that every folder ends up having two files instead of one for every image with only the file extension being different. I remember the first raw file format released by Canon and how annoying it was to deal with one .CRW and one .THM file for every image in the folder.

[snip]

That appears to mix up two concepts: the location of the cache (centralised or distributed); and the location of ACR settings and other metadata (database or sidecar XMP files or within a DNG file). The former is a Bridge preference. The latter is an ACR preference combined with a choice of file-type.

If you want the simplest management of the ACR settings and other metadata, with no need to extract them from the database, (which is where they can be held – not the cache), and no XMP sidecars, use DNG. Then the XMP metadata that would have been held in the sidecar is held in the DNG file itself.

This ability to hold a full range of metadata within DNG files is one of the best reasons for switching to a DNG-based workflow, if the tools you use permit it.

—
Barry Pearson
http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/
http://www.birdsandanimals.info/

On 12/9/05 12:08 AM, in article BFBE5F67.33581%,
"Joseph Chamberlain, DDS" wrote:

Dear members:

I am faced with the choice of selecting either centralized cache or distributed cache for Bridge.

The benefit of using distributed cache is that the sidecar .xmp file is saved in the same folder where the images are making it simple to export it along with the images when they need to be transferred to another location in the system or transferred to another computer. The problem however is that every folder ends up having two files instead of one for every image with only the file extension being different. I remember the first raw file format released by Canon and how annoying it was to deal with one .CRW and one .THM file for every image in the folder.

Centralized cache seems much easier to manage. The only inconvenient is that whenever an image is transferred to another folder, to another location in the network or saved to removable media one must remember to include the sidecar file containing all information related to the image including raw conversion settings.

Questions:

Is there a command in Photoshop that allows me to export or save images in a way that both the image file and the associated sidecar file located in the centralized cache are saved to the selected location ?

In the Bridge application if you simply drag and drop your image from one location to another the sidecar file (the xmp file) automatically goes with it. This assumes of course that you are saving your raws using the sidecar option not the database option. If you use the Finder, or other application, to move images you do indeed have to remember to move both the original raw plus the sidecar file.
Note for clarification – when you are using the sidecar option the side car file is located in the same folder as the raw image. If you are using the centralized database option the file is no longer called a ‘sidecar’ file; your question appears to me to mix up these two concepts.

What is the system location (in the Mac OS X 10.4.3) where the centralized cache is maintained and all sidecar files stored ?

The centralized database, if you don’t elect the sidecar option, is located in a file located in: (your user name)/library/preferences/Adobe Camera Raw Database.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Best regards,

Joseph

—

Dr. Joseph Chamberlain
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery

If you are going to be moving raw files to other drives/media for storage the sidecar option would be the one to choose.
Another option, already well described in another post, is to use the DNG option. Then you don’t have to worry about either sidecar file or a central database.
Chuck

On 12/9/05 2:47 AM, in article
, "Barry Pearson"
wrote:

That appears to mix up two concepts: the location of the cache (centralised or distributed); and the location of ACR settings and other metadata (database or sidecar XMP files or within a DNG file). The former is a Bridge preference. The latter is an ACR preference combined with a choice of file-type.

If you want the simplest management of the ACR settings and other metadata, with no need to extract them from the database, (which is where they can be held – not the cache), and no XMP sidecars, use DNG. Then the XMP metadata that would have been held in the sidecar is held in the DNG file itself.

This ability to hold a full range of metadata within DNG files is one of the best reasons for switching to a DNG-based workflow, if the tools you use permit it.
—
Barry Pearson

Isn’t the purpose of .xmp sidecar files to hold or store "all" information that relates to the raw images ?

My impression was that sidecar files held raw conversion information created by Camera Raw but also held information attached to the raw images by Bridge such as sort order, keywords and other metadata.

Although I am tempted to use DNG and find the idea the best approach to working with RAW images, I must confess that at this time I am a little skeptical of committing my RAW files to the DNG file format and the DNG converter. I am afraid that either the file format itself or the converter may corrupt my images and prevent me from extracting my original RAW files in the future should I need to do so.

For this reason I thought about the possibility of working with the original RAW images and managing the sidecar files whenever I needed to move the files to another location in the system or export them to another system, external storage device or removable medium.

I remember reading Bruce Fraser’s book on Camera Raw for Photoshop CS2 and he mentions the two options. One to have a centralized cache or database with all the metadata that applies to the RAW files or to have a distributed one where each sidecar file is placed in the same folder where the image it is related to is located. This is the database I am referring to.

Your statement has me a little confused when you say:

That appears to mix up two concepts: the location of the cache (centralised or distributed); and the location of ACR settings and other metadata (database or sidecar XMP files or within a DNG file). The former is a Bridge preference. The latter is an ACR preference combined with a choice of file-type.

Isn’t information attributed by Bride to a RAW image supposed to be incorporated into the sidecar file along with all other metadata that relates to that image ?

How can one export in a single sidecar file "ALL" settings and information that has been applied to an image so that in case this image and the corresponding sidecar file are transferred to another system Bridge and Photoshop CS2 will open the image with the same settings that were applied to the image in the first system ?

Your statement leads me to believe that there may be more than 1 sidecar file – one created by ACR and the other by Bridge.

Thanks again for the help and detailed post.

Best regards,

Joseph

—

Dr. Joseph Chamberlain
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery

On 12/9/05 8:12 AM, in article BFBF0910.4AAA3%,
"C Wright" wrote:

In the Bridge application if you simply drag and drop your image from one location to another the sidecar file (the xmp file) automatically goes with it.

I tried it and it worked fine. There isn’t an export command in Bridge to export the image with the sidecar file and it made it a little more confusing. When I tried to drag the image out of Bridge’s window directly to my desktop it removed the image from Bridge and placed only the RAW image file on the desktop. Then I tried to use Bridge’s own folder panel and file navigation system to transfer the image. This time as a dragged the image from its folder to the desktop folder it was transferred along with the accompanying sidecar file to the desktop. The problem was that I wanted to copy the image to the desktop instead of move it. I had to selected the image, copy it, move to the desktop folder in Bridge’s folder panel and then paste it there. This time it worked perfectly placing a copy of the RAW image on the desktop with its sidecar file while preserving the original copied in its own folder.

Thanks for making it clear to me.

This assumes of course that you are saving your raws using the sidecar option not the database option.

In case I was using the "Save image setting in: Camera Raw Database" wouldn’t I be able to export the image with a copy of the sidecar file created during the export process ? This would seem like the ideal solution. A centralized database could be kept for ease of file handling but whenever there was a need to move or transfer the image the sidecar file would be created to accompany the image.

I noticed that my copy of Camera Raw’s preference is set to

Save image settings in: Sidecar ".xmp" files

Bridge on the other hand is set to

When saving the cache: Use a centralized cache file

My understanding was that the sidecar files held not only Camera Raw conversion settings assigned to RAW images but also other metadata such as labels, keywords and ratings assigned in Bridge. The thumbnails and preview images created in Bridge were kept in its cache file and did not travel with the image in the sidecar file.

I am now concerned that perhaps this is not true. What happens to metadata added or assigned to RAW images in Bridge ? Are they incorporated in the sidecar files or the sidecar files only contain Camera Raw conversion settings ? What about keywords, labels, ratings, sort order and other information attributed to RAW images by Bridge ?

If you use the Finder, or other
application, to move images you do indeed have to remember to move both the original raw plus the sidecar file.

I now realized that after reading your post and running some tests.

Note for clarification – when you are using the sidecar option the side car file is located in the same folder as the raw image. If you are using the centralized database option the file is no longer called a ‘sidecar’ file; your question appears to me to mix up these two concepts.

In this case as I stated above, can a sidecar file be exported from this centralized database ?

What is the system location (in the Mac OS X 10.4.3) where the centralized cache is maintained and all sidecar files stored ?

The centralized database, if you don’t elect the sidecar option, is located in a file located in: (your user name)/library/preferences/Adobe Camera Raw Database.

Thank you. I found it.

If you are going to be moving raw files to other drives/media for storage the sidecar option would be the one to choose.
Another option, already well described in another post, is to use the DNG option. Then you don’t have to worry about either sidecar file or a central database.

I like the DNG alternative but am skeptical of committing my RAW files to this new format and a converter that may cause my RAW images to become corrupted in this early stage of its development. I would only move to DNG using the option that allows you to preserve the original RAW file in a way that it could be extracted in the future in its original, unaltered state.

Adobe’s DNG converter offers two options that seem redundant:

"Preserve Raw Image"
This is a alternative to the other option which is "Convert to Linear Image". The DNG converter dialogue is clear in that if converted to a linear data format this conversion is irreversible. So I assume that the best choice for my preferred workflow would be to choose "Preserve Raw Image" to avoid alterations to my original RAW file.

But then right below this options there is another choice to "Embed Original Raw File" that is supposed to embed the entire non-DNG raw file inside the DNG file. This is the one I remember reading about in Bruce Fraser’s Camera Raw book.

Now in case I want to preserve my original unaltered RAW file should I select one of these options or both ? Can the original be embedded in its original state and be maintained unaltered while at the same time the image goes through a process of irreversible linear data conversion ?

Last but not least, on the top of the DNG converter dialogue window there is an option to use compression which is checked by default and it says "Compressed (lossless)". What data is being compressed here ? Is this referring to image, attached metadata or both ?

Chuck

Chuck:

Thank you again for such detailed answers to my post and for your help. I greatly appreciate it.

Best regards,

Joseph

—

Dr. Joseph Chamberlain
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery

On 12/11/05 4:29 AM, in article BFC13F76.338F3%,
"Joseph Chamberlain, DDS" wrote:

On 12/9/05 8:12 AM, in article BFBF0910.4AAA3%,
"C Wright" wrote:

In the Bridge application if you simply drag and drop your image from one location to another the sidecar file (the xmp file) automatically goes with it.

I tried it and it worked fine. There isn’t an export command in Bridge to export the image with the sidecar file and it made it a little more confusing. When I tried to drag the image out of Bridge’s window directly to my desktop it removed the image from Bridge and placed only the RAW image file on the desktop. Then I tried to use Bridge’s own folder panel and file navigation system to transfer the image. This time as a dragged the image from its folder to the desktop folder it was transferred along with the accompanying sidecar file to the desktop. The problem was that I wanted to copy the image to the desktop instead of move it. I had to selected the image, copy it, move to the desktop folder in Bridge’s folder panel and then paste it there. This time it worked perfectly placing a copy of the RAW image on the desktop with its sidecar file while preserving the original copied in its own folder.

Thanks for making it clear to me.

This assumes of course that you are saving your raws using the sidecar option not the database option.

In case I was using the "Save image setting in: Camera Raw Database" wouldn’t I be able to export the image with a copy of the sidecar file created during the export process ? This would seem like the ideal solution. A centralized database could be kept for ease of file handling but whenever there was a need to move or transfer the image the sidecar file would be created to accompany the image.

I noticed that my copy of Camera Raw’s preference is set to
Save image settings in: Sidecar ".xmp" files

Bridge on the other hand is set to

When saving the cache: Use a centralized cache file

My understanding was that the sidecar files held not only Camera Raw conversion settings assigned to RAW images but also other metadata such as labels, keywords and ratings assigned in Bridge. The thumbnails and preview images created in Bridge were kept in its cache file and did not travel with the image in the sidecar file.

I am now concerned that perhaps this is not true. What happens to metadata added or assigned to RAW images in Bridge ? Are they incorporated in the sidecar files or the sidecar files only contain Camera Raw conversion settings ? What about keywords, labels, ratings, sort order and other information attributed to RAW images by Bridge ?

If you use the Finder, or other
application, to move images you do indeed have to remember to move both the original raw plus the sidecar file.

I now realized that after reading your post and running some tests.

Note for clarification – when you are using the sidecar option the side car file is located in the same folder as the raw image. If you are using the centralized database option the file is no longer called a ‘sidecar’ file; your question appears to me to mix up these two concepts.

In this case as I stated above, can a sidecar file be exported from this centralized database ?

What is the system location (in the Mac OS X 10.4.3) where the centralized cache is maintained and all sidecar files stored ?

The centralized database, if you don’t elect the sidecar option, is located in a file located in: (your user name)/library/preferences/Adobe Camera Raw Database.

Thank you. I found it.

If you are going to be moving raw files to other drives/media for storage the sidecar option would be the one to choose.
Another option, already well described in another post, is to use the DNG option. Then you don’t have to worry about either sidecar file or a central database.

I like the DNG alternative but am skeptical of committing my RAW files to this new format and a converter that may cause my RAW images to become corrupted in this early stage of its development. I would only move to DNG using the option that allows you to preserve the original RAW file in a way that it could be extracted in the future in its original, unaltered state.
Adobe’s DNG converter offers two options that seem redundant:
"Preserve Raw Image"
This is a alternative to the other option which is "Convert to Linear Image". The DNG converter dialogue is clear in that if converted to a linear data format this conversion is irreversible. So I assume that the best choice for my preferred workflow would be to choose "Preserve Raw Image" to avoid alterations to my original RAW file.

But then right below this options there is another choice to "Embed Original Raw File" that is supposed to embed the entire non-DNG raw file inside the DNG file. This is the one I remember reading about in Bruce Fraser’s Camera Raw book.

Now in case I want to preserve my original unaltered RAW file should I select one of these options or both ? Can the original be embedded in its original state and be maintained unaltered while at the same time the image goes through a process of irreversible linear data conversion ?
Last but not least, on the top of the DNG converter dialogue window there is an option to use compression which is checked by default and it says "Compressed (lossless)". What data is being compressed here ? Is this referring to image, attached metadata or both ?

Chuck

Chuck:

Thank you again for such detailed answers to my post and for your help. I greatly appreciate it.

Best regards,

Joseph

—

Dr. Joseph Chamberlain
Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery

I’ll try to answer some, perhaps not all, of your additional questions from above. I am sure someone else will correct me if my understandings are incorrect!

I am now concerned that perhaps this is not true. What happens to metadata added or assigned to RAW images in Bridge ? Are they incorporated in the sidecar files or the sidecar files only contain Camera Raw conversion settings ? What about keywords, labels, ratings, sort order and other information attributed to RAW images by Bridge ?

My understanding is that the sidecar files just contain the raw converter changes that you make to your raw image – white balance, exposure, shadow detail, etc. Keywords, ratings, etc. would not be contained in the sidecar file. If you think about it Bridge’s keywords, labels, etc. can be applied to all of your psd, tiff, or jpeg files where there is no associated sidecar file. So it stands to reason that these labels are not associated with the sidecar file.

In this case as I stated above, can a sidecar file be exported from this centralized database ?

I am not aware of any way of exporting your labels from Bridge’s database.

"Preserve Raw Image"
This is a alternative to the other option which is "Convert to Linear Image". The DNG converter dialogue is clear in that if converted to a linear data format this conversion is irreversible. So I assume that the best choice for my preferred workflow would be to choose "Preserve Raw Image" to avoid alterations to my original RAW file.

Agreed!

But then right below this options there is another choice to "Embed Original Raw File" that is supposed to embed the entire non-DNG raw file inside the DNG file. This is the one I remember reading about in Bruce Fraser’s Camera Raw book.
Now in case I want to preserve my original unaltered RAW file should I select one of these options or both ? Can the original be embedded in its original state and be maintained unaltered while at the same time the image goes through a process of irreversible linear data conversion ?

I am sure that Adobe put a lot of thought into the "embed original raw file" option and I am sure that it probably works. Having said that, if I had what I considered to be a real ‘hero’ shot that I was converting to DNG I would archive the original raw for additional peace of mind. As part of an everyday work flow however I don’t think that I would embed original raw images due to the additional file size overhead.

Last but not least, on the top of the DNG converter dialogue window there is an option to use compression which is checked by default and it says "Compressed (lossless)". What data is being compressed here ? Is this referring to image, attached metadata or both ?

My understanding is that some of the image data is being compressed; but it is in a lossless format so should be perfectly safe.

I too am struggling with the idea of converting my original raw images (they are Canon’s CR2) to DNG’s. Currently I have converted some but not all. I like the idea of not having to mess with the sidecar files. Adobe will probably be around for a long time – supporting DNG. But then Canon will probably be around for a long time as well! A real concern is that every time a new camera comes out (even though the same file name is maintained) the format of the raw image data is modified. This is true for Canon, Nikon and any other company using a proprietary format.
Chuck

Joseph Chamberlain, DDS wrote:

On 12/9/05 2:47 AM, in article
, "Barry Pearson"
wrote:

That appears to mix up two concepts: the location of the cache (centralised or distributed); and the location of ACR settings and other metadata (database or sidecar XMP files or within a DNG file). The former is a Bridge preference. The latter is an ACR preference combined with a choice of file-type.

[snip]

Isn’t the purpose of .xmp sidecar files to hold or store "all" information that relates to the raw images ?

The XMP metadata holds information that should have a long association with the image. The cache is mainly to speed up Browser or Bridge. For example, the cache, I believe, holds the thumbnails in a rapidly accessible form. The cache can be purged, because the thumbnails can be regenerated from the DNG later.

My impression was that sidecar files held raw conversion information created by Camera Raw but also held information attached to the raw images by Bridge such as sort order, keywords and other metadata.

Not all of that. For example, the sort-order isn’t held with the image itself, because if you hand that file to someone else, the sort order is meaningless.

The distributed cache for Bridge is held in 2 files in each folder, (not per image):
Adobe Bridge Cache.bct
Adobe Bridge Cache.bc

There is sometimes another file in a folder, (not per image), and from its name appears to be related to the sort order:
..BridgeSort

The XMP sidecar is in text form, and is worth having a look at to see what is there. If you open a DNG file with Word, (or presumable any text editor or other word processor), you should see the same text in it, if it is holding XMP metadata. (Word won’t show the sensor data, of course! But the XMP metadata in in clear form).

Although I am tempted to use DNG and find the idea the best approach to working with RAW images, I must confess that at this time I am a little skeptical of committing my RAW files to the DNG file format and the DNG converter. I am afraid that either the file format itself or the converter may corrupt my images and prevent me from extracting my original RAW files in the future should I need to do so.

You need to be comfortable with what you do. I’ve been doing this for several months with success, but I am not going to try a "hard sell" to persuade you to do this!

I do my own test on ACR and the DNG Converter when they are released, and don’t adopt them until I am satisfied that they work OK. I don’t just download and start using them. I check that ACR appears to give the sort of results I expect. And I test the following routes, to ensure that the DNG Converter itself is not screwing things up. (I test by using blending mode "difference" on the two versions, and verifying that all pixels are zero).
PEF > ACR > PSD (layer 0)
PEF > DNG > ACR > PSD (layer 1)

[snip]

I remember reading Bruce Fraser’s book on Camera Raw for Photoshop CS2 and he mentions the two options. One to have a centralized cache or database with all the metadata that applies to the RAW files or to have a distributed one where each sidecar file is placed in the same folder where the image it is related to is located. This is the database I am referring to.

What is important is that the "database" and the "cache" are different things. You can actually safely delete the cache, (or copy your DNGs without exporting the cache), and still retain your settings.

But I have just looked at page 70 of Bruce’s CS2 book, at "Export Settings". And I believe he has made a mistake! He says "when you have the Camera Raw Preferences set to save edits in the Camera Raw cache". Go and have a look at Camera Raw Preferences, at the drop-down box for the location of settings – it (correctly) says "Camera Raw database". You have a perfect right to be confused.

The database is a file called "Database" in "Documents and Settings\<user>\Application Data\Adobe\CameraRaw".

The central cache appears to be in the "Documents and Settings\<user>\Application Data\Adobe\CameraRaw\Cache" folder.

[snip]

How can one export in a single sidecar file "ALL" settings and information that has been applied to an image so that in case this image and the corresponding sidecar file are transferred to another system Bridge and Photoshop CS2 will open the image with the same settings that were applied to the image in the first system ?

[snip]

Data that is specific to one image, and needs to be retained even if the cache is lost or purged, is held in the database or sidecars or inside the DNG itself. Hence edits, settings, etc. If you hold it in the database, you then need to export it so that it can be copied across.

Data that can be thrown away and remade, or relates to a set of images, such as thumbnails & previews, or sort parameters, is held in the cache. They don’t need to be copied across, or don’t really make sense to copy across.

Some data appears to vary according to file type: for example, I notice that ratings are held in the DNG file as XMP metadata. I suppose that makes sense, but I believe that in some cases ratings are held in the cache. (?)

It is not a simple picture.

—
Barry Pearson
http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/
http://www.birdsandanimals.info/

C Wright wrote:
[snip]

My understanding is that the sidecar files just contain the raw converter changes that you make to your raw image – white balance, exposure, shadow detail, etc. Keywords, ratings, etc. would not be contained in the sidecar file.

[snip]

Not true. Here are the contents of an XMP sidecar file, copied in full. Note such things as EXIF data, including makernote ("Lens"); IPTC data including copyright, name, website; rating (3-star) and label (yellow); keywords such as "self portrait", etc. The DNG version of that image appears to have precisely the same XMP metadata within it.

<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x=’adobe:ns:meta/’ x:xmptk=’XMP toolkit 3.0-28, framework 1.6′>
<rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf=’http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#‘ xmlns:iX=’http://ns.adobe.com/iX/1.0/‘>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:crs=’http://ns.adobe.com/camera-raw-settings/1.0/‘> <crs:Version>3.3×43</crs:Version>
<crs:RawFileName>IMGP0029.PEF</crs:RawFileName> <crs:WhiteBalance>Daylight</crs:WhiteBalance> <crs:Temperature>5500</crs:Temperature>
<crs:Tint>+10</crs:Tint>
<crs:Exposure>0.00</crs:Exposure>
<crs:Shadows>5</crs:Shadows>
<crs:Brightness>50</crs:Brightness>
<crs:Contrast>+25</crs:Contrast>
<crs:Saturation>0</crs:Saturation>
<crs:Sharpness>25</crs:Sharpness>
<crs:LuminanceSmoothing>0</crs:LuminanceSmoothing> <crs:ColorNoiseReduction>25</crs:ColorNoiseReduction> <crs:ChromaticAberrationR>0</crs:ChromaticAberrationR> <crs:ChromaticAberrationB>0</crs:ChromaticAberrationB> <crs:VignetteAmount>0</crs:VignetteAmount>
<crs:ShadowTint>0</crs:ShadowTint>
<crs:RedHue>0</crs:RedHue>
<crs:RedSaturation>0</crs:RedSaturation>
<crs:GreenHue>0</crs:GreenHue>
<crs:GreenSaturation>0</crs:GreenSaturation> <crs:BlueHue>0</crs:BlueHue>
<crs:BlueSaturation>0</crs:BlueSaturation>
<crs:ToneCurveName>Medium Contrast</crs:ToneCurveName> <crs:ToneCurve>
<rdf:Seq>
<rdf:li>0, 0</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>32, 22</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>64, 56</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>128, 128</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>192, 196</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>255, 255</rdf:li>
</rdf:Seq>
</crs:ToneCurve>
<crs:CameraProfile>ACR 2.4</crs:CameraProfile> <crs:HasSettings>True</crs:HasSettings>
<crs:HasCrop>False</crs:HasCrop>
</rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:exif=’http://ns.adobe.com/exif/1.0/‘>
<exif:ExifVersion>0221</exif:ExifVersion>
<exif:ExposureTime>1/125</exif:ExposureTime> <exif:ShutterSpeedValue>6965784/1000000</exif:ShutterSpeedValue > <exif:FNumber>56/10</exif:FNumber>
<exif:ApertureValue>4970854/1000000</exif:ApertureValue> <exif:ExposureProgram>3</exif:ExposureProgram>

<exif:DateTimeOriginal>2004-07-18T15:39:08+01:00</exif:DateTimeOriginal >

<exif:DateTimeDigitized>2004-07-18T15:39:08+01:00</exif:DateTimeDigitized > <exif:ExposureBiasValue>0/1</exif:ExposureBiasValue> <exif:MeteringMode>5</exif:MeteringMode>
<exif:FocalLength>35/1</exif:FocalLength>
<exif:SensingMethod>2</exif:SensingMethod>
<exif:FileSource>3</exif:FileSource>
<exif:SceneType>1</exif:SceneType>
<exif:FocalLengthIn35mmFilm>52</exif:FocalLengthIn35mmFilm > <exif:CustomRendered>0</exif:CustomRendered> <exif:ExposureMode>0</exif:ExposureMode>
<exif:WhiteBalance>0</exif:WhiteBalance>
<exif:SceneCaptureType>0</exif:SceneCaptureType> <exif:Contrast>0</exif:Contrast>
<exif:Saturation>0</exif:Saturation>
<exif:Sharpness>0</exif:Sharpness>
<exif:SubjectDistanceRange>3</exif:SubjectDistanceRange> <exif:ISOSpeedRatings>
<rdf:Seq>
<rdf:li>200</rdf:li>
</rdf:Seq>
</exif:ISOSpeedRatings>
<exif:Flash rdf:parseType=’Resource’>
<exif:Fired>False</exif:Fired>
<exif:Return>0</exif:Return>
<exif:Mode>2</exif:Mode>
<exif:Function>False</exif:Function>
<exif:RedEyeMode>False</exif:RedEyeMode>
</exif:Flash>
</rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:aux=’http://ns.adobe.com/exif/1.0/aux/‘>
<aux:Lens>smc PENTAX-F 35-135mm F3.5-4.5</aux:Lens> <aux:LensInfo>350/10 1350/10 35/10 45/10</aux:LensInfo> <aux:LensID>3 24</aux:LensID>
</rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:pdf=’http://ns.adobe.com/pdf/1.3/‘>
</rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:photoshop=’http://ns.adobe.com/photoshop/1.0/‘> <photoshop:Credit>Barry Pearson</photoshop:Credit> <photoshop:Source>Barry Pearson</photoshop:Source> </rdf:Description>

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xmlns:tiff=’http://ns.adobe.com/tiff/1.0/‘>
<tiff:Make>PENTAX Corporation</tiff:Make>
<tiff:Model>PENTAX *ist D</tiff:Model>
<tiff:Orientation>1</tiff:Orientation>
<tiff:ImageWidth>3008</tiff:ImageWidth>
<tiff:ImageLength>2008</tiff:ImageLength>
<tiff:BitsPerSample>
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<rdf:li>16</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>16</rdf:li>
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<tiff:PhotometricInterpretation>2</tiff:PhotometricInterpretation > <tiff:XResolution>240/1</tiff:XResolution>
<tiff:YResolution>240/1</tiff:YResolution>
<tiff:ResolutionUnit>2</tiff:ResolutionUnit> <tiff:DateTime>2004-07-18T15:39:08+01:00</tiff:DateTime> </rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:xap=’http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/‘>
<xap:CreatorTool>*ist D Ver 1.11</xap:CreatorTool> <xap:ModifyDate>2004-07-18T15:39:08+01:00</xap:ModifyDate> <xap:MetadataDate>2005-12-12T18:51:40Z</xap:MetadataDate> <xap:Rating>3</xap:Rating>
<xap:Label>Yellow</xap:Label>
</rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:xapRights=’http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/rights/‘> <xapRights:Marked>True</xapRights:Marked>

<xapRights:WebStatement>www.barry.pearson.name</xapRights:WebStatement > </rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:dc=’http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/‘>
<dc:rights>
<rdf:Alt>
<rdf:li xml:lang=’x-default’>© Copyright 2005 Barry Pearson</rdf:li>
</rdf:Alt>
</dc:rights>
<dc:creator>
<rdf:Seq>
<rdf:li>Barry Pearson</rdf:li>
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<dc:subject>
<rdf:Bag>
<rdf:li>Self portrait</rdf:li>
</rdf:Bag>
</dc:subject>
</rdf:Description>

</rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>

—
Barry Pearson
http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/
http://www.birdsandanimals.info/

On 12/12/05 1:08 PM, in article
, "Barry Pearson"
wrote:

C Wright wrote:
[snip]

My understanding is that the sidecar files just contain the raw converter changes that you make to your raw image – white balance, exposure, shadow detail, etc. Keywords, ratings, etc. would not be contained in the sidecar file.

[snip]

Not true. Here are the contents of an XMP sidecar file, copied in full. Note such things as EXIF data, including makernote ("Lens"); IPTC data including copyright, name, website; rating (3-star) and label (yellow); keywords such as "self portrait", etc. The DNG version of that image appears to have precisely the same XMP metadata within it.

Thanks for the clarification! I find that _very_ interesting! If items like rating (3 star) and label (yellow) are contained in the sidecar file what happens with a JPEG or TIFF file in Bridge? For instance, suppose an image is brought into Bridge directly as a JPEG or TIFF (not as a raw file); in such a case there will never be a sidecar file. Where does Bridge then keep ratings and labels? Obviously there are some differences in the way meta data is stored with raws versus other file types.
Chuck

<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x=’adobe:ns:meta/’ x:xmptk=’XMP toolkit 3.0-28, framework 1.6′>
<rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf=’http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#‘ xmlns:iX=’http://ns.adobe.com/iX/1.0/‘>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:crs=’http://ns.adobe.com/camera-raw-settings/1.0/‘> <crs:Version>3.3×43</crs:Version>
<crs:RawFileName>IMGP0029.PEF</crs:RawFileName> <crs:WhiteBalance>Daylight</crs:WhiteBalance> <crs:Temperature>5500</crs:Temperature>
<crs:Tint>+10</crs:Tint>
<crs:Exposure>0.00</crs:Exposure>
<crs:Shadows>5</crs:Shadows>
<crs:Brightness>50</crs:Brightness>
<crs:Contrast>+25</crs:Contrast>
<crs:Saturation>0</crs:Saturation>
<crs:Sharpness>25</crs:Sharpness>
<crs:LuminanceSmoothing>0</crs:LuminanceSmoothing> <crs:ColorNoiseReduction>25</crs:ColorNoiseReduction> <crs:ChromaticAberrationR>0</crs:ChromaticAberrationR> <crs:ChromaticAberrationB>0</crs:ChromaticAberrationB> <crs:VignetteAmount>0</crs:VignetteAmount>
<crs:ShadowTint>0</crs:ShadowTint>
<crs:RedHue>0</crs:RedHue>
<crs:RedSaturation>0</crs:RedSaturation>
<crs:GreenHue>0</crs:GreenHue>
<crs:GreenSaturation>0</crs:GreenSaturation> <crs:BlueHue>0</crs:BlueHue>
<crs:BlueSaturation>0</crs:BlueSaturation>
<crs:ToneCurveName>Medium Contrast</crs:ToneCurveName> <crs:ToneCurve>
<rdf:Seq>
<rdf:li>0, 0</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>32, 22</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>64, 56</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>128, 128</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>192, 196</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>255, 255</rdf:li>
</rdf:Seq>
</crs:ToneCurve>
<crs:CameraProfile>ACR 2.4</crs:CameraProfile> <crs:HasSettings>True</crs:HasSettings>
<crs:HasCrop>False</crs:HasCrop>
</rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:exif=’http://ns.adobe.com/exif/1.0/‘>
<exif:ExifVersion>0221</exif:ExifVersion>
<exif:ExposureTime>1/125</exif:ExposureTime> <exif:ShutterSpeedValue>6965784/1000000</exif:ShutterSpeedValue > <exif:FNumber>56/10</exif:FNumber>
<exif:ApertureValue>4970854/1000000</exif:ApertureValue> <exif:ExposureProgram>3</exif:ExposureProgram>
<exif:DateTimeOriginal>2004-07-18T15:39:08+01:00</exif:DateTimeOriginal >
<exif:DateTimeDigitized>2004-07-18T15:39:08+01:00</exif:DateTimeDigitized > <exif:ExposureBiasValue>0/1</exif:ExposureBiasValue> <exif:MeteringMode>5</exif:MeteringMode>
<exif:FocalLength>35/1</exif:FocalLength>
<exif:SensingMethod>2</exif:SensingMethod>
<exif:FileSource>3</exif:FileSource>
<exif:SceneType>1</exif:SceneType>
<exif:FocalLengthIn35mmFilm>52</exif:FocalLengthIn35mmFilm > <exif:CustomRendered>0</exif:CustomRendered> <exif:ExposureMode>0</exif:ExposureMode>
<exif:WhiteBalance>0</exif:WhiteBalance>
<exif:SceneCaptureType>0</exif:SceneCaptureType> <exif:Contrast>0</exif:Contrast>
<exif:Saturation>0</exif:Saturation>
<exif:Sharpness>0</exif:Sharpness>
<exif:SubjectDistanceRange>3</exif:SubjectDistanceRange> <exif:ISOSpeedRatings>
<rdf:Seq>
<rdf:li>200</rdf:li>
</rdf:Seq>
</exif:ISOSpeedRatings>
<exif:Flash rdf:parseType=’Resource’>
<exif:Fired>False</exif:Fired>
<exif:Return>0</exif:Return>
<exif:Mode>2</exif:Mode>
<exif:Function>False</exif:Function>
<exif:RedEyeMode>False</exif:RedEyeMode>
</exif:Flash>
</rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:aux=’http://ns.adobe.com/exif/1.0/aux/‘>
<aux:Lens>smc PENTAX-F 35-135mm F3.5-4.5</aux:Lens> <aux:LensInfo>350/10 1350/10 35/10 45/10</aux:LensInfo> <aux:LensID>3 24</aux:LensID>
</rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:pdf=’http://ns.adobe.com/pdf/1.3/‘>
</rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:photoshop=’http://ns.adobe.com/photoshop/1.0/‘> <photoshop:Credit>Barry Pearson</photoshop:Credit> <photoshop:Source>Barry Pearson</photoshop:Source> </rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:tiff=’http://ns.adobe.com/tiff/1.0/‘>
<tiff:Make>PENTAX Corporation</tiff:Make>
<tiff:Model>PENTAX *ist D</tiff:Model>
<tiff:Orientation>1</tiff:Orientation>
<tiff:ImageWidth>3008</tiff:ImageWidth>
<tiff:ImageLength>2008</tiff:ImageLength>
<tiff:BitsPerSample>
<rdf:Seq>
<rdf:li>16</rdf:li>
<rdf:li>16</rdf:li>
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</rdf:Seq>
</tiff:BitsPerSample>
<tiff:PhotometricInterpretation>2</tiff:PhotometricInterpretation > <tiff:XResolution>240/1</tiff:XResolution>
<tiff:YResolution>240/1</tiff:YResolution>
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<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:xap=’http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/‘>
<xap:CreatorTool>*ist D Ver 1.11</xap:CreatorTool> <xap:ModifyDate>2004-07-18T15:39:08+01:00</xap:ModifyDate> <xap:MetadataDate>2005-12-12T18:51:40Z</xap:MetadataDate> <xap:Rating>3</xap:Rating>
<xap:Label>Yellow</xap:Label>
</rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:xapRights=’http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/rights/‘> <xapRights:Marked>True</xapRights:Marked>

<xapRights:WebStatement>www.barry.pearson.name</xapRights:WebStatement > </rdf:Description>

<rdf:Description rdf:about=”
xmlns:dc=’http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/‘>
<dc:rights>
<rdf:Alt>
<rdf:li xml:lang=’x-default’>© Copyright 2005 Barry Pearson</rdf:li>
</rdf:Alt>
</dc:rights>
<dc:creator>
<rdf:Seq>
<rdf:li>Barry Pearson</rdf:li>
</rdf:Seq>
</dc:creator>
<dc:subject>
<rdf:Bag>
<rdf:li>Self portrait</rdf:li>
</rdf:Bag>
</dc:subject>
</rdf:Description>

</rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>

—
Barry Pearson
http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/
http://www.birdsandanimals.info/

C Wright wrote:

On 12/12/05 1:08 PM, in article
, "Barry Pearson"

[snip]

Not true. Here are the contents of an XMP sidecar file, copied in full. Note such things as EXIF data, including makernote ("Lens"); IPTC data including copyright, name, website; rating (3-star) and label (yellow); keywords such as "self portrait", etc. The DNG version of that image appears to have precisely the same XMP metadata within it.

Thanks for the clarification! I find that _very_ interesting! If items like rating (3 star) and label (yellow) are contained in the sidecar file what happens with a JPEG or TIFF file in Bridge? For instance, suppose an image is brought into Bridge directly as a JPEG or TIFF (not as a raw file); in such a case there will never be a sidecar file. Where does Bridge then keep ratings and labels? Obviously there are some differences in the way meta data is stored with raws versus other file types.

[snip]

I think the answer is complicated. And I don’t know the full scope.

I just looked inside a PSD file derived from a DNG file with lots of XMP metadata in. And I found lots of XMP metadata in the PSD file, looking like a copy of the DNG’s metadata.

I just added a 5-star rating to a JPEG file with Bridge. Then I looked inside it. And it had XMP metadata with "xap:Rating="5"" in it. And I added 3 stars to another with Bridge, and it has "xap:Rating="3"" within it. Hardly a coincidence!

I appear to have my system configured so that XMP metadata tends to end up in inside the file concerned. (Which is what I want, but I’m not sure what I did to get it). I need to investigate what various settings mean.

(Is the rating held elsewhere too? If I copy that file elsewhere, will its internal rating be picked up? I’ll respond when I’ve tried this – in the meantime, my meal has just finished cooking).

—
Barry Pearson
http://www.barry.pearson.name/photography/
http://www.birdsandanimals.info/

I learned very early, "Why did that raw image change in the preview window? Oh yeah. Those were the settings I used last time! Hmmm?!" So I investigate, as Mr. Pearson is doing now, and found it is saved along.