Computer Graphics Are Fake.

wrote in message

Computer animated movies are fake. In movies like the Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.

They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

That’s old hat. Remember Max Headroom? The show tubed when people found out that Max was just a jumpy videotape of the actor with fiberglass makeup.

On 12/3/05 10:05 PM, Lorem Ipsum commented:

wrote in message

Computer animated movies are fake. In movies like the Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.

They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

That’s old hat. Remember Max Headroom? The show tubed when people found out that Max was just a jumpy videotape of the actor with fiberglass makeup.

I loved that show, but I can’t imagine anyone ever thought that he was anything but an actor; I mean, he did interviews and and the whole 9 yards. They never hid the fact, AFAIK.

inez

wrote in message

Computer animated movies are fake. In movies like the Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.

They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

They put these fake 3d models into scenes they have created in 3d studio max that are mixed in with real textures. So in the end they have a multi-media showcase of photoshop, 3d studio max, video, and careful editing.

It is not that magical when you know how it is done. Making 3d animation is like filming a real movie, but they just disguise it to appear as a 3d film.

antimagick

Not exactly. Making 3D people that look real is getting
pretty doable these days. Max, Maya, Lightwave, and
other programs give you a lot of control over subtleties. For instance, sub-surface scattering gives the effect of light penetrating the skin and bouncing around. Hair is
the hardest, but even that is becoming easier to deal with.

You are right about bringing in real people, but they are used to aid the programming of body movement, and
even for capturing facial expressions. there are several ways of doing this, but the most common is to place
balls at every joint (shoulder, elbow, hand, hip, knee, foot, etc.). These balls are covered in a very reflective surface, while the room and character stay pretty dark. Cameras
are placed around the subject (3 or more in some cases). As the actor moves around the cameras feed images
into the computer so they can be recorded. Then the
computer analyzes the motion using triangulation and
creates a "motion file" that is used to position the joints on the virtual models. It’s a lot faster than figuring out all of the movement by hand.

Rotoscoping is used too, which is what you were referring to in your post. It used to be totally done by hand, but now there are more automated ways to accomplish the bulk of
the tracing of the subjects, but is normally done to create a cartoon sort of look, rather than to create the near "real" look that you are talking about. There is a current ad for some financial service that uses this technique effectively. I’ve never heard of Photoshop being used for this but it could be done.

David

wrote:

Computer animated movies are fake.

Yeah, but they’re real fakes.

In movies like the Animatrix, or
Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.

That sort of 3d animation takes time – probably more time per second on the screen than say what a movie like Toy Story or Incredibles took to produce. Time is money and for the most part, the intended audience is more than happy with how the movie looks.

They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

? – hmm, that’s not how I understand those particular animations were made. The on;y part that might have been a "real" human, might have been some motion capture that they did. The rest was 3d models.

They put these fake 3d models into scenes they have created in 3d studio max that are mixed in with real textures. So in the end they have a multi-media showcase of photoshop, 3d studio max, video, and careful editing.

It is not that magical when you know how it is done. Making 3d animation is like filming a real movie, but they just disguise it to appear as a 3d film.

Ah – I get it, you’re a troll.

Martin

antimagick

Lorem Ipsum Wrote:

That’s old hat. Remember Max Headroom? The show tubed when >people found out that Max was just a jumpy videotape of the actor with fiberglass >makeup.

That is exactly why they are not telling us what they are doing. They make so money creating the illusion of the animatrix, that they have to keep their effects a secret.

Don’t you wonder why there are not any independent artists who make graphics at the level you see in the animatrix?

magicvs wrote …

That is exactly why they are not telling us what they
are doing. They make so money creating the illusion
of the animatrix, that they have to keep their effects a secret.

Then there was the rumor that some reasonably popular
Hollywood movie that appeared to be live-action was
actually completely CGI. And this was many years ago
even. With the state of the art today, I still haven’t seen a completely CGI scene with name-brand actors, etc
that looked even reasonably close.

Don’t you wonder why there are not any independent
artists who make graphics at the level you see in the
animatrix?

Because they can’t afford a million-dollar render-farm
in the basement? Same statement could be made about
lots of different crafts.

Lorem Ipsum wrote:

That’s old hat. Remember Max Headroom? The show tubed when people found out that Max was just a jumpy videotape of the actor with fiberglass makeup.

I seriously doubt that anyone cared. People liked the show for wat it was, not how the effects were done. In fact that enhanced the show, knowing how they created clever ilusions. Does anyone object to Superman being on wires and not really flying.

Remember the old BBC "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" (not the new poor imitation)? I hope that it doesn’t spoil anyones illusions to know that most of the Guide’s "computer" effects were animations.

Dave

wrote:

Lorem Ipsum Wrote:

That’s old hat. Remember Max Headroom? The show tubed when >people found out that Max was just a jumpy videotape of the actor with fiberglass >makeup.

That is exactly why they are not telling us what they are doing. They make so money creating the illusion of the animatrix, that they have to keep their effects a secret.

Don’t you wonder why there are not any independent artists who make graphics at the level you see in the animatrix?

There are people who do that level of cgi work (human) – just not complete movies.

Take a look at the work of Steven Stahlberg – his stuff is all created from scratch
http://www.androidblues.com/

And there are off-the-shelf packages such as Poser 6
www.e-frontier.com/

There’s a number of people (here and in Japan) that use Poser to make some pretty realistic figures.
http://digitalbabes2.com/

Here are some refrences I found that explain the process, at least without exposing the industry completey:
Here are some refrences about how MGM could be creating fake computer graphics like the animatrix:

http://www.worth1000.com/tutorial.asp?sid=161117

This is a tutorial called ‘Displacement Maps And Textures’ off of a photoshopping website. It shows you how to put one texture onto another photo.

The website offers great examples, and they have a number of other tutorials about this subject:
http://www.worth1000.com/tutorial.asp?sid=161117

This tutorial demonstrates how to do the above and turn a person into a statue!! It is amazing, and if you used the same textures as they have in the Animatrix, you could turn a person into a 3D Rendered Object.!!

"Lorem Ipsum" wrote in message

wrote in message

Computer animated movies are fake. In movies like the Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.

They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

That’s old hat. Remember Max Headroom? The show tubed when people found out that Max was just a jumpy videotape of the actor with fiberglass makeup.

I felt the same thing when I found out the truth about Jessica Rabbit

—
Nigel Brooks

wrote in message

Lorem Ipsum Wrote:

That’s old hat. Remember Max Headroom? The show tubed when >people found out
that Max was just a jumpy videotape of the actor with fiberglass >makeup.

That is exactly why they are not telling us what they are doing. They make so money creating the illusion of the animatrix, that they have to keep their effects a secret.

If you hang out in the appropriate groups, you can probably learn all about it.

Don’t you wonder why there are not any independent artists who make graphics at the level you see in the animatrix?

I’m sure there are a lot of independent artist that would totally disagree with that statement. Try lurking at a
Maya, poser, or Lightwave group. Most of what you
could have done on that proprietary software at
Skywalker Ranch, can now be done with software
that will run on a any recent home computer. You
need to spend a little on software, but even that has
gotten a lot cheaper. If you use programs that are
popular in the professional community, you can rent
time on other peoples render farms. Computers for
a render farm can be relatively cheap computers.
They want to be fast, and have lots of memory, but
they don’t need their own monitor mouse and keyboard,
except to set them up initially. An inexpensive display
card is fine. Once it is set up you can remove that.
I think you need to do a lot of rendering to justify it.

David

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:32:22 GMT, "David McCall" wrote:

Most of what you
could have done on that proprietary software at
Skywalker Ranch, can now be done with software
that will run on a any recent home computer.

Not entirely. The big-uns use proprietary software
to make it look just that bit extra good. You can
get there on your won, but not all the way.

cheers

-martin-
—
"If you go through life convinced that your way is always best, all the new ideas in the world will pass you by." Akio Morita

"Martin Heffels" wrote in message

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:32:22 GMT, "David McCall"
wrote:

Most of what you
could have done on that proprietary software at
Skywalker Ranch, can now be done with software
that will run on a any recent home computer.

Not entirely. The big-uns use proprietary software
to make it look just that bit extra good. You can
get there on your won, but not all the way.

Sorry I meant to imply a date in with that comment.
I was thinking along the lines of effects that could
have been done a decade or so ago. Back when
soft-body dynamics were limited, and rare, even
in the adult studios.

But, you are right in that the big guys have better
tools than I do today. More importantly, they have
more budget and talented artist working as a team.
I’m just working by myself, so the tools are not
my limiting factor 🙂

David

wrote:

Computer animated movies are fake. In movies like the Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.

They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

Ya got any swampland in Florida ya want to sell?

What an idiot.

R

wrote in message

Computer animated movies are fake. In movies like the Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.

They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

They put these fake 3d models into scenes they have created in 3d studio max that are mixed in with real textures. So in the end they have a multi-media showcase of photoshop, 3d studio max, video, and careful editing.

It is not that magical when you know how it is done. Making 3d animation is like filming a real movie, but they just disguise it to appear as a 3d film.

antimagick

wrote in message

It is not that magical when you know how it is done. Making 3d animation is like filming a real movie, but they just disguise it to appear as a 3d film.

antimagick

1. There is no such thing as magic. No one I have ever worked with can do it and no one you will ever work with can do magic. The last people interested in hiring magicians are Movie and VFX producers. They want it done the way the director wants it and the director has to do it within the budget. No magic.

2. Movie making is not about the tools. If what the director wants is on the screen he really is not going to care how it was done. Nor will the audience.

$.01. keep the change.

wrote in a message

Computer animated movies are fake.

Actually, all movies are fake. Those are just actors and actresses pretending to be someone and/or something they are not. That’s what they get paid to do. 😉

John P. wrote:

Actually, all movies are fake. Those are
just actors and actresses pretending to
be someone and/or something they are
not. That’s what they get paid to do. 😉

Actually, John, those are not real actors on the screen. Those are just images of actors that you see. Gee, I guess it really is fake. Well, duh! :-))

Cheers Lee O.

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 22:58:52 -0600, "John P"
wrote:

wrote in a message

Computer animated movies are fake.

Actually, all movies are fake. Those are just actors and actresses pretending to be someone and/or something they are not. That’s what they get paid to do.

What !! Are you trying to tell us Christopher Reeve wasn’t really Superman? Get on.

Ken

"Ken Hall" wrote in a message

Actually, all movies are fake. Those are just actors and actresses pretending to be someone and/or something they are not. That’s what they get
paid to do.

What !! Are you trying to tell us Christopher Reeve wasn’t really Superman? Get on.

OK. Christopher Reeve was really Superman, but all the rest of them are fake. 🙂

On 12/17/2005, John P managed to type:

"Ken Hall" wrote in a message

Actually, all movies are fake. Those are just actors and actresses pretending to be someone and/or something they are not. That’s what they get
paid to do.

What !! Are you trying to tell us Christopher Reeve wasn’t really Superman? Get on.

OK. Christopher Reeve was really Superman, but all the rest of them are fake. 🙂

Finally the truth is told!

Thanks 🙂

Gino

—
Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
letters617blochg3251
(replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")

Take a look at the work of Steven Stahlberg – his stuff is all created from scratch
http://www.androidblues.com/

Might want to give a nudity warning on this one for people at work…

wrote:

Computer animated movies are fake. In movies like the
Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.

Aha, and you think real people could move like those you see in "Animatrix – the Last Flight of the Osiris"; I think particularily of the falling sequence at the end. Actually in difficult shoot situations with complicated camera movements it’s far easier to animate than to use real actors.

You clam, that you can’t find independent professional grade computer animation films, which look natural. That might be for 2 reasons:

1. If you’re making a animation film nowadays you actually don’t want it to look natural, for the same reason why cartoons don’t look natural => Style.

2. If you’re up for a hyper realistic look you probably don’t want to use it standalone but use it as an additional tool in film making with real actors.

I mean: Think of the pseudopod in "The Abyss". This thing was the start of the large scale use of CG in movies. And today in productions like "Star Wars Episode III" or "King Kong" there is no single scene in which no CG was used. It looks natural, because it has to.

Since about a decade it is also for the amatuer and hobbyist possible to make realistic looking CG, thanks to the existence of POV and a lot of other free raytracers. 3 years ago the sourc code of Blender (like it or not – I love it) was released and since then it made a huge leap.

The real problem about 3D animation is, that it takes a lot of manpower to create a stunningly realistic impression. And only lage studios have vast amounts of manpower. But if you’re after still images (and maybe some flight animation through it), how about those:
http://www.povray.org/community/hof/
Particularily I like those, because they are looking like photos, not renderings:
http://www.povray.org/community/hof/the_eye.php
http://www.povray.org/community/hof/lotw-040723.php
http://www.povray.org/community/hof/14b.php
http://www.povray.org/community/hof/mouille.php
http://www.povray.org/community/hof/lizard_Big.php
http://www.povray.org/community/hof/amants.php

These are good, because they look IMHO better than "The last flight of the osiris". It just lacks the animation, but put a actor/actress into a motion capture suit and you’re done: http://www.povray.org/community/hof/fermeture.php
http://www.povray.org/community/hof/classe.php
http://www.povray.org/community/hof/office-13.php

Of course are CG fake – a fake of the real world, nothing else than polygons, curved patches and some linear algebra math, but: Who cares if it looks so damn good?

Wolfgang Draxinger
—