New points (well mine) about printing profiles

B
Posted By
Beemer
Apr 14, 2004
Views
360
Replies
10
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Closed
I normally save my film scanned images into PS7 with Adobe RGB 1998 profile and have read a lot on the web about how to use profiles with PS7 and my Epson 1290. For me a few points still need clarifying.

Am I correct that:

1 – Epson do not supply, as standard, separate paper profiles which PS7 can "see" on a PC (I have read that their MAC version does) The Epson profiles are embedded in their single printer driver which only the printer and not PS7 can extract the profiles?

2- I have downloaded the Epson paper profiles separately (Ian Lyons)

3 – In using these (third party?) profiles I now can select a paper type profile in PS7 but assume that I must now in the Epson print setup select "no colour control" (or similar words)?

4 – Accepting the above as correct I would also like to know if, as I only have one "photo quality" printer, should I embed the 1290 profile in my saved psd files? If I do this then I am concerned that on printing I might have a "double applied" profile.

All my concern would be superfluous if the programmers of the printing software could inform the "human printer" of step by step "do you really want to do this?" e.g. double gamma correction, double profiling etc.

Beemer
(Lifetime of using Kodak Brownie, Rollicord, Voigtlander, Mamiya 330f, "gas light" paper, Beselar, Cibachrome, Canon A40, but now.. battle with digital printing)

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m.golner
Apr 14, 2004
Beemer,

Check out this link: http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/profiles.htm

Mike

Beemer wrote:
I normally save my film scanned images into PS7 with Adobe RGB 1998 profile and have read a lot on the web about how to use profiles with PS7 and my Epson 1290. For me a few points still need clarifying.
Am I correct that:

1 – Epson do not supply, as standard, separate paper profiles which PS7 can "see" on a PC (I have read that their MAC version does) The Epson profiles are embedded in their single printer driver which only the printer and not PS7 can extract the profiles?

2- I have downloaded the Epson paper profiles separately (Ian Lyons)
3 – In using these (third party?) profiles I now can select a paper type profile in PS7 but assume that I must now in the Epson print setup select "no colour control" (or similar words)?
4 – Accepting the above as correct I would also like to know if, as I only have one "photo quality" printer, should I embed the 1290 profile in my saved psd files? If I do this then I am concerned that on printing I might have a "double applied" profile.
All my concern would be superfluous if the programmers of the printing software could inform the "human printer" of step by step "do you really want to do this?" e.g. double gamma correction, double profiling etc.
Beemer
(Lifetime of using Kodak Brownie, Rollicord, Voigtlander, Mamiya 330f, "gas light" paper, Beselar, Cibachrome, Canon A40, but now.. battle with digital printing)
J
Jim
Apr 14, 2004
"Beemer" wrote in message
I normally save my film scanned images into PS7 with Adobe RGB 1998 profile and have read a lot on the web about how to use profiles with PS7 and my Epson 1290. For me a few points still need clarifying.
Am I correct that:

1 – Epson do not supply, as standard, separate paper profiles which PS7 can "see" on a PC (I have read that their MAC version does) The Epson profiles are embedded in their single printer driver which only the printer and not PS7 can extract the profiles?
PS 7 on my computer "sees" an single profile for my 1280. This profile works good enough for me.
2- I have downloaded the Epson paper profiles separately (Ian Lyons)
3 – In using these (third party?) profiles I now can select a paper type profile in PS7 but assume that I must now in the Epson print setup select "no colour control" (or similar words)?
No, set it as "ICM". PS imbeds the profile in the spool file.
4 – Accepting the above as correct I would also like to know if, as I only have one "photo quality" printer, should I embed the 1290 profile in my saved psd files? If I do this then I am concerned that on printing I might have a "double applied" profile.
Just specify the correct profile when you are printing.
Besides, you really don’t want to overwrite the work space profile.

Jim
MR
Mike Russell
Apr 14, 2004
Beemer wrote:
I normally save my film scanned images into PS7 with Adobe RGB 1998 profile and have read a lot on the web about how to use profiles with PS7 and my Epson 1290. For me a few points still need clarifying.
Am I correct that:

1 – Epson do not supply, as standard, separate paper profiles which PS7 can "see" on a PC (I have read that their MAC version does) The Epson profiles are embedded in their single printer driver which only the printer and not PS7 can extract the profiles?

Right.

2- I have downloaded the Epson paper profiles separately (Ian Lyons)
3 – In using these (third party?) profiles I now can select a paper type profile in PS7 but assume that I must now in the Epson print setup select "no colour control" (or similar words)?

Yes.

4 – Accepting the above as correct I would also like to know if, as I only have one "photo quality" printer, should I embed the 1290 profile in my saved psd files? If I do this then I am concerned that on printing I might have a "double applied" profile.

No, and your concerns are exactly right. Specify the appropriate epson profile only at print time. PS will automatically embed your working space profile if you have enabled color management.

All my concern would be superfluous if the programmers of the printing software could inform the "human printer" of step by step "do you really want to do this?" e.g. double gamma correction, double profiling etc.

Right. Color workflow is still very complex and therefore error prone, just as networking was before Alan Oppenheimer invented AppleTalk.

Beemer
(Lifetime of using Kodak Brownie, Rollicord, Voigtlander, Mamiya 330f, "gas light" paper, Beselar, Cibachrome, Canon A40, but now.. battle with digital printing)

LOL. But a battle worth the fighting. I still remember, at age 6, when my first roll of film – all indoor shots without flash – came out totally black. Today, six year olds will get immediate results from their cameras, and not have to face that disappointment. Hopefully when that six year old is old enough to be concerned with color correction, profiles will simply work without a fuss.



Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net
F
Flycaster
Apr 14, 2004
"Beemer" wrote in message
I normally save my film scanned images into PS7 with Adobe RGB 1998 profile and have read a lot on the web about how to use profiles with PS7 and my Epson 1290. For me a few points still need clarifying.
Am I correct that:

1 – Epson do not supply, as standard, separate paper profiles which PS7 can "see" on a PC (I have read that their MAC version does) The Epson profiles are embedded in their single printer driver which only the printer and not PS7 can extract the profiles?

I beleive that the 1290 is the european version of the US 1280 – if true, the answer is yes.

2- I have downloaded the Epson paper profiles separately (Ian Lyons)

Good. They are not bad at all for canned profiles.

3 – In using these (third party?) profiles I now can select a paper type profile in PS7 but assume that I must now in the Epson print setup select "no colour control" (or similar words)?

They are actual Epson profiles, but otherwise you are correct.

4 – Accepting the above as correct I would also like to know if, as I only have one "photo quality" printer, should I embed the 1290 profile in my saved psd files? If I do this then I am concerned that on printing I might have a "double applied" profile.

There are two different ways to use the profile. Either convert the file to the paper profile after editing, then select Source Space:Document, Print Space:Same as Source, then in the Epson driver, "no color management." Or (which most prefer), leave the document in your working space of ARG98, then select Source Space:Document, Print Space:(select the paper profile), then in the Epson driver, "no color management."

Either way gets you the same results. The trick is to never, ever convert to or use a paper profile AND have color management turned on in the driver. Moreover, you can screw up in PS and convert it twice, but PS won’t allow it (iow, it’ll save your behind)- but, if you use *both* PS and the driver color management, you will end up with some very magenta looking images (ie, the dreaded "double color management")

All my concern would be superfluous if the programmers of the printing software could inform the "human printer" of step by step "do you really want to do this?" e.g. double gamma correction, double profiling etc.

Jeez, you mean you would like for all this to be *simple*? Heh, don’t we all?
S
Stephan
Apr 14, 2004
"Mike Russell" wrote in message
Beemer wrote:

LOL. But a battle worth the fighting. I still remember, at age 6, when my first roll of film – all indoor shots without flash – came out totally black. Today, six year olds will get immediate results from their
cameras,
and not have to face that disappointment. Hopefully when that six year
old
is old enough to be concerned with color correction, profiles will simply work without a fuss.

Let me tell you about a much older guy who was very surprised to find his flash card empty once in the card reader after having previewed some of the pics he had taken a moment earlier.
New technology, almost same problems! I agree with Beemer. If I had a decent lab in my area I would prefer to shoot chrome films and have my prints done on Cibachromes.
In the end it was much simpler and much better looking in the end. Give me a Contax G3 ,a Mamiya 645, a nice and pro lab technician and a good Cibachrome guy two miles from my house and I’ll give you my computer, my digital cameras and my Epson.

Stephan
B
Beemer
Apr 15, 2004
In article <407db153$ says…
"Beemer" wrote in message
I normally save my film scanned images into PS7 with Adobe RGB 1998 profile and have read a lot on the web about how to use profiles with PS7 and my Epson 1290. For me a few points still need clarifying.
Am I correct that:

1 – Epson do not supply, as standard, separate paper profiles which PS7 can "see" on a PC (I have read that their MAC version does) The Epson profiles are embedded in their single printer driver which only the printer and not PS7 can extract the profiles?

I beleive that the 1290 is the european version of the US 1280 – if true, the answer is yes.

2- I have downloaded the Epson paper profiles separately (Ian Lyons)

Good. They are not bad at all for canned profiles.

3 – In using these (third party?) profiles I now can select a paper type profile in PS7 but assume that I must now in the Epson print setup select "no colour control" (or similar words)?

They are actual Epson profiles, but otherwise you are correct.
4 – Accepting the above as correct I would also like to know if, as I only have one "photo quality" printer, should I embed the 1290 profile in my saved psd files? If I do this then I am concerned that on printing I might have a "double applied" profile.

There are two different ways to use the profile. Either convert the file to the paper profile after editing, then select Source Space:Document, Print Space:Same as Source, then in the Epson driver, "no color management." Or (which most prefer), leave the document in your working space of ARG98, then select Source Space:Document, Print Space:(select the paper profile), then in the Epson driver, "no color management."

Either way gets you the same results. The trick is to never, ever convert to or use a paper profile AND have color management turned on in the driver. Moreover, you can screw up in PS and convert it twice, but PS won’t allow it (iow, it’ll save your behind)- but, if you use *both* PS and the driver color management, you will end up with some very magenta looking images (ie, the dreaded "double color management")

All my concern would be superfluous if the programmers of the printing software could inform the "human printer" of step by step "do you really want to do this?" e.g. double gamma correction, double profiling etc.
Flycaster,

Funny how when you read profiling articles and get replies to newsgroup posts, that there are answers which have at least one point which you still think is wrong for your application problem. Your reply however squarely hit the head of my nail.

Its a pity that Epson never produced an article which describes how when using PS6-7 you might want do use PS instead of Epson color management.

I have set PS7 up as you describe but was totally uncertain when the PS7 print process eventually brings up the Epson printer panel. I had Epson printer panel ICM selected so now realise that PS7 in this instance was not controlling the print process.

Most of the posts I see where folks have red or magenta color casts get replies advising monitor calibration. However I think that many have suffered the same double profiling as myself.

Thanks,

Beemer
B
Beemer
Apr 15, 2004
In article <f%gfc.7773$>,
says…
"Beemer" wrote in message
I normally save my film scanned images into PS7 with Adobe RGB 1998 profile and have read a lot on the web about how to use profiles with PS7 and my Epson 1290. For me a few points still need clarifying.
Am I correct that:

1 – Epson do not supply, as standard, separate paper profiles which PS7 can "see" on a PC (I have read that their MAC version does) The Epson profiles are embedded in their single printer driver which only the printer and not PS7 can extract the profiles?
PS 7 on my computer "sees" an single profile for my 1280. This profile works good enough for me.
2- I have downloaded the Epson paper profiles separately (Ian Lyons)
3 – In using these (third party?) profiles I now can select a paper type profile in PS7 but assume that I must now in the Epson print setup select "no colour control" (or similar words)?
No, set it as "ICM". PS imbeds the profile in the spool file.
4 – Accepting the above as correct I would also like to know if, as I only have one "photo quality" printer, should I embed the 1290 profile in my saved psd files? If I do this then I am concerned that on printing I might have a "double applied" profile.
Just specify the correct profile when you are printing.
Besides, you really don’t want to overwrite the work space profile.
Jim
Jim,

Thanks. I wanted to use PS7 and not the Epson Printer control as soon I will buy a printer bulk cartridge system and will want to get new profiles.

Beemer
B
Beemer
Apr 15, 2004
In article <Wahfc.51320$>,
says…
Beemer wrote:
I normally save my film scanned images into PS7 with Adobe RGB 1998 profile and have read a lot on the web about how to use profiles with PS7 and my Epson 1290. For me a few points still need clarifying.
Am I correct that:

1 – Epson do not supply, as standard, separate paper profiles which PS7 can "see" on a PC (I have read that their MAC version does) The Epson profiles are embedded in their single printer driver which only the printer and not PS7 can extract the profiles?

Right.

2- I have downloaded the Epson paper profiles separately (Ian Lyons)
3 – In using these (third party?) profiles I now can select a paper type profile in PS7 but assume that I must now in the Epson print setup select "no colour control" (or similar words)?

Yes.

4 – Accepting the above as correct I would also like to know if, as I only have one "photo quality" printer, should I embed the 1290 profile in my saved psd files? If I do this then I am concerned that on printing I might have a "double applied" profile.

No, and your concerns are exactly right. Specify the appropriate epson profile only at print time. PS will automatically embed your working space profile if you have enabled color management.

All my concern would be superfluous if the programmers of the printing software could inform the "human printer" of step by step "do you really want to do this?" e.g. double gamma correction, double profiling etc.

Right. Color workflow is still very complex and therefore error prone, just as networking was before Alan Oppenheimer invented AppleTalk.
Beemer
(Lifetime of using Kodak Brownie, Rollicord, Voigtlander, Mamiya 330f, "gas light" paper, Beselar, Cibachrome, Canon A40, but now.. battle with digital printing)

LOL. But a battle worth the fighting. I still remember, at age 6, when my first roll of film – all indoor shots without flash – came out totally black. Today, six year olds will get immediate results from their cameras, and not have to face that disappointment. Hopefully when that six year old is old enough to be concerned with color correction, profiles will simply work without a fuss.
Mike,

You said
——–
No, and your concerns are exactly right. Specify the appropriate epson
profile only at print time. PS will automatically embed your working space profile if you have enabled color management.
——–

This is where I have been confused until I read Flycatchers reply. My requirement is to use the PS7 print to xxxxxx Epson paperprofile and thus I would NOT want to enable Epson color management.

Thanks,

Beemer
B
Beemer
Apr 15, 2004
In article <aGifc.4316$>,
says…
"Mike Russell" wrote in message
Beemer wrote:

LOL. But a battle worth the fighting. I still remember, at age 6, when my first roll of film – all indoor shots without flash – came out totally black. Today, six year olds will get immediate results from their
cameras,
and not have to face that disappointment. Hopefully when that six year
old
is old enough to be concerned with color correction, profiles will simply work without a fuss.

Let me tell you about a much older guy who was very surprised to find his flash card empty once in the card reader after having previewed some of the pics he had taken a moment earlier.
New technology, almost same problems! I agree with Beemer. If I had a decent lab in my area I would prefer to shoot chrome films and have my prints done on Cibachromes.
In the end it was much simpler and much better looking in the end. Give me a Contax G3 ,a Mamiya 645, a nice and pro lab technician and a good Cibachrome guy two miles from my house and I’ll give you my computer, my digital cameras and my Epson.

Stephan
…..But I 30 years ago when home processing an important FP4 film mixed up the dev and fixer. Lovely clear film!!!

Beemer
S
Stephan
Apr 15, 2004
"Stephan" wrote in message

Meant Contax G2, no G3 yet
Stephan

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