metamerism pronounced?

DH
Posted By
David Hitchin
Oct 30, 2003
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"Metamarism" is the undesirable property of some inks which makes them change colour under different lights. How is the word pronounced? meta – merism or metam -erism?

David Hitchin

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W
westin*nospam
Oct 30, 2003
David Hitchin writes:

"Metamarism" is the undesirable property of some inks which makes them change colour under different lights. How is the word pronounced? meta – merism or metam -erism?

A friend who used to work in the printing business, and someone I heard at Rochester Institute of Technology, pronounce it

muh TAA muh rism.

I had thought that it should be

me tuh MEER ism,

but now I think that’s wrong.


-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
J
JJS
Oct 30, 2003
"David Hitchin" wrote in message
"Metamarism" is the undesirable property of some inks which makes them change colour under different lights. How is the word pronounced? meta – merism or metam -erism?

Is that a newly coined term?
Metamerism is a better choice of word.
B
bhilton665
Oct 30, 2003
From: David Hitchin

How is the word pronounced?

According to http://www.inkjetart.com/2000p/metamerism.html

"Pronouncing "Metamerism": me*tam*er*ism (just in case you wanted to talk intelligently with others on this subject — hey, we never knew how to pronounce it until just last week ;-)"

They even have WAV and AIFF files so you can hear it, though I doubt it’s with a British accent.

Bill
T
tacitr
Oct 31, 2003
A friend who used to work in the printing business, and someone I heard at Rochester Institute of Technology, pronounce it
muh TAA muh rism.

That agrees with Merriam-Webster’s pronounciation:

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=metamerism

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N
nospam
Oct 31, 2003
In article ,
(Bill Hilton) wrote:

"Pronouncing "Metamerism": me*tam*er*ism (just in case you wanted to talk intelligently with others on this subject — hey, we never knew how to pronounce it until just last week ;-)"

They even have WAV and AIFF files so you can hear it, though I doubt it’s with a British accent.

Oh bloody hell, then!
H
hoffmann
Oct 31, 2003
David Hitchin …
"Metamarism" is the undesirable property of some inks which makes them change colour under different lights. How is the word pronounced? meta – merism or metam -erism?

David Hitchin

I would call it Mutoh-Merism:
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/prooflight18092003.pdf

Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
S
support
Oct 31, 2003
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:55:42 +0000 (UTC), David Hitchin
wrote:

"Metamarism" is the undesirable property of some inks which makes them change colour under different lights. How is the word pronounced? meta – merism or metam -erism?

Don’t all printed colors change under different lighting?


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Repligator – Easy graphics effects
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BV
Bart van der Wolf
Oct 31, 2003
"PR" wrote in message
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:55:42 +0000 (UTC), David Hitchin
wrote:

"Metamarism" is the undesirable property of some inks which makes them change colour under different lights. How is the word pronounced? meta – merism or metam -erism?

Don’t all printed colors change under different lighting?

Yes, but not as strong as these materials. A metamere is a color that looks the same as a spectrum color (e.g. yellow), but it is built from the combination of two (or more) different (red and green) colors, a compound. Both can look the same under a given illumination, but the different components change at a different rate and therefore the effect can be much stronger than on broad or single spectrum colors.

Bart
BV
Bart van der Wolf
Oct 31, 2003
"PR" wrote in message
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:55:42 +0000 (UTC), David Hitchin
wrote:

"Metamarism" is the undesirable property of some inks which makes them change colour under different lights. How is the word pronounced? meta – merism or metam -erism?

Don’t all printed colors change under different lighting?

Yes, but not as strong as these materials. A metamer is a color that looks the same as a spectrum color (e.g. yellow), but it is built from the combination of two (or more) different (red and green) colors, a compound. Both can look the same under a given illumination, but the different components change at a different rate and therefore the effect can be much stronger than on broad or single spectrum colors.

Bart
B
bhilton665
Oct 31, 2003
From: (PR)

Don’t all printed colors change under different lighting?

Some change a lot more than others, due to the inks.

http://www.inkjetart.com/2000p/metamerism.html shows prints from 3 printers in different temperature lighting conditions. The 2000p has the biggest shift.
S
support
Oct 31, 2003
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:02:52 +0100, "Bart van der Wolf" wrote:

"PR" wrote in message
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:55:42 +0000 (UTC), David Hitchin
wrote:

"Metamarism" is the undesirable property of some inks which makes them change colour under different lights. How is the word pronounced? meta – merism or metam -erism?

Don’t all printed colors change under different lighting?

Yes, but not as strong as these materials.

Thanks for the explanation 🙂


http://www.ransen.com/
Repligator – Easy graphics effects
Gliftic – Easy decorative tilings
S
support
Oct 31, 2003
On 31 Oct 2003 14:35:49 GMT, (Bill Hilton)
wrote:

From: (PR)

Don’t all printed colors change under different lighting?

Some change a lot more than others, due to the inks.

http://www.inkjetart.com/2000p/metamerism.html shows prints from 3 printers in different temperature lighting conditions. The 2000p has the biggest shift.

Thanks for the WEB page reference… 🙂


http://www.ransen.com/
Repligator – Easy graphics effects
Gliftic – Easy decorative tilings
N
nospam
Oct 31, 2003
In article <3fa27126$0$58703$>, "Bart van der Wolf" wrote:

"PR" wrote in message
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:55:42 +0000 (UTC), David Hitchin
wrote:

"Metamarism" is the undesirable property of some inks which makes them change colour under different lights. How is the word pronounced? meta – merism or metam -erism?

Don’t all printed colors change under different lighting?

Yes, but not as strong as these materials. A metamere is a color that looks the same as a spectrum color (e.g. yellow), but it is built from the combination of two (or more) different (red and green) colors, a compound. Both can look the same under a given illumination, but the different components change at a different rate and therefore the effect can be much stronger than on broad or single spectrum colors.

Then there is the so-called ‘day glow’ colors which are brighter than white.
J
JJS
Oct 31, 2003
"Bart van der Wolf" wrote in message

Yes, but not as strong as these materials. A metamer is a color that looks the same as a spectrum color (e.g. yellow), but it is built from the combination of two (or more) different (red and green) colors,

How do you make yellow from red and green in a subtractive color process?
H
hoffmann
Oct 31, 2003
"Bart van der Wolf" …
"PR" wrote in message
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:55:42 +0000 (UTC), David Hitchin
wrote:

"Metamarism" is the undesirable property of some inks which makes them change colour under different lights. How is the word pronounced? meta – merism or metam -erism?

Don’t all printed colors change under different lighting?

Yes, but not as strong as these materials. A metamere is a color that looks the same as a spectrum color (e.g. yellow), but it is built from the combination of two (or more) different (red and green) colors, a compound. Both can look the same under a given illumination, but the different components change at a different rate and therefore the effect can be much stronger than on broad or single spectrum colors.

Bart

Bart,

metamers are spectra which cause the same tristimulus excitation for eye+brain. Has nothing to do with surfaces etc. The spectrum is already emitted light.
IMO, your explanation fails immediately for purple/magenta: there is no pure spectral magenta as a reference.

Metamerism:
a) the effect that different spectra cause the same perceptual impression.
b) the effect that a surface causes very different perceptual impressions
for different illuminants.
These are two DISTINCT definitions (R.W.G.Hunt, Measuring Colour) which are used both, though with different meanings.

The version b) doesn´t mean the effect by different (correlated) color temperatures. It means the interaction between "peaky" surface reflectances and "peaky" illuminant spectra.

Smooth spectra for different illuminants (e.g. D50, D65) don´t cause meta- merism. The shift is easily balanced by eye+brain by adaptation.

Offset prints don´t suffer from metamerism version b). But inkjet prints do, though the ink spectra (for single inks) are smooth. An explanation is not available, so far.

Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann
BV
Bart van der Wolf
Oct 31, 2003
"JJS" wrote in message
"Bart van der Wolf" wrote in message

Yes, but not as strong as these materials. A metamer is a color that
looks
the same as a spectrum color (e.g. yellow), but it is built from the combination of two (or more) different (red and green) colors,

How do you make yellow from red and green in a subtractive color process?

Not.
I gave an example for spectral colors, thus an additive color model, e.g. in projection or reflection.

In the case of a subtractive color process that would mean e.g. a yellow ink can reflect either yellow or a mix of green and red and still produce the same visual impression under a given lighting. As the spectral weight of the different wavelengths in the lightsource changes, a yellow reflecting ink will look different from an ink that reflects green and red wavelengths. And you may replace reflection with absorption of the complement, if you prefer.

Bart
BV
Bart van der Wolf
Nov 1, 2003
"Gernot Hoffmann" wrote in message
SNIP
IMO, your explanation fails immediately for purple/magenta: there is no pure spectral magenta as a reference.

Magenta dye/ink absorbs green or, if you like, reflects blue and red parts of the spectrum. In its purest form (in theory dyes ‘can’ have no secondary absorptions) it seems a relatively unlikely candidate for metamerizing.

Cyan reflection (red absorption) on the other hand, can also be a mix of blue and green spectral reflection, both can produce the same sensation to the human visual system under a given lightsource.
As the lightsource’s emission spectrum changes, the colors of the two types of cyan can change.

An example for yellow ink/dye was given in another post already.

Metamerism:
a) the effect that different spectra cause the same perceptual impression.
b) the effect that a surface causes very different perceptual impressions
for different illuminants.
These are two DISTINCT definitions (R.W.G.Hunt, Measuring Colour) which are used both, though with different meanings.

The version b) doesn
N
nospam
Nov 1, 2003
In article <3fa2fb7a$0$58710$>, "Bart van der Wolf" wrote:

"JJS" wrote in message

How do you make yellow from red and green in a subtractive color process?

Not.
I gave an example for spectral colors, thus an additive color model, e.g. in projection or reflection.

In the case of a subtractive color process that would mean e.g. a yellow ink can reflect either yellow or a mix of green and red and still produce the same visual impression under a given lighting. As the spectral weight of the different wavelengths in the lightsource changes, a yellow reflecting ink will look different from an ink that reflects green and red wavelengths. And you may replace reflection with absorption of the complement, if you prefer.

So the main factors here are the light source’s wavelength and the reflective property of the ink/paper, right? Light source color has always been critical for viewing images. The particular problem at hand is either as old as human vision and just being rehashed, or it occurs in very subtle conditions with the particular materials we use in digital printing.
N
nospam
Nov 1, 2003
In article <3fa2fb7a$1$58710$>, "Bart van der Wolf" wrote:

"Gernot Hoffmann" wrote in message

[…]

For the fun of it, why not post this subject to alt.sci.physics. If the right person is still there, chances are he will blow this issue into the proportions an internationalincident. Oh, suggest that the propery you are talking about might be due to a thin-film effect.

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